• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:52
CEST 19:52
KST 02:52
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event18Serral wins EWC 202549
Community News
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris19Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6
StarCraft 2
General
2v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away What mix of new and old maps do you want in the next 1v1 ladder pool? (SC2) : The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Monday Nights Weeklies Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull
Brood War
General
Flash On His 2010 "God" Form, Mind Games, vs JD BW General Discussion Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL Maps with Neutral Command Centers BSL Polish World Championship 2025 20-21 September
Tourneys
[CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [ASL20] Ro24 Group A [ASL20] Ro24 Group C [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The year 2050 European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment"
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Breaking the Meta: Non-Stand…
TrAiDoS
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2251 users

Planetside 2 - Page 129

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 127 128 129 130 131 186 Next
Rah
Profile Joined February 2010
United States973 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-10 02:59:03
January 10 2013 02:54 GMT
#2561
On January 10 2013 08:51 Jochan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2013 04:22 zere wrote:
Rah just told me to post here and say that NC weapons are OP.
+ Show Spoiler +
I was venting about NC CQC Shotguns on TS

Yeah I love those baddies who die to NC but have guns that have no bullet drop, no recoil, or rate of fire of 100000000.


Only for the reactions like this. ;-
Streaming on twitch. http://www.twitch.tv/rahsun86
LaNague
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany9118 Posts
January 10 2013 08:35 GMT
#2562
is this game fun for someone who generally hates shooters but loves the battlefield series?

i read a lot of complaints about the game focusing too much on K/D ratios and not enough on teamplay and objectives.
is this still the case?


10GB takes a long time for me to download atm, so im asking instead.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
January 10 2013 08:52 GMT
#2563
On January 10 2013 17:35 LaNague wrote:
is this game fun for someone who generally hates shooters but loves the battlefield series?

i read a lot of complaints about the game focusing too much on K/D ratios and not enough on teamplay and objectives.
is this still the case?


10GB takes a long time for me to download atm, so im asking instead.


If you like the battlefield series (i'm same way as you like battlefield type shooters) then you will like planetside 2. Unless things have changed since last I played (has been a couple weeks) there was lots of teamwork and it was imo even cooler then battlefield because of how epic the battles were, infantry/tanks/air vehicles. It felt like you were in a war (like battlefield) but even more so.

My favorite moment that I wish I had recorded was when 20+ (no i'm not exaggerating) drop ships came from my team and all of them landed and then a ton of infantry poured out and we ended up taking the base. Coolest thing I have ever seen in a shooter.

I look at the sky and see 20+ drop ships and I just got chills of awesomeness lol.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Jetaap
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France4814 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-10 09:16:46
January 10 2013 09:16 GMT
#2564
On January 10 2013 17:52 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2013 17:35 LaNague wrote:
is this game fun for someone who generally hates shooters but loves the battlefield series?

i read a lot of complaints about the game focusing too much on K/D ratios and not enough on teamplay and objectives.
is this still the case?


10GB takes a long time for me to download atm, so im asking instead.


If you like the battlefield series (i'm same way as you like battlefield type shooters) then you will like planetside 2. Unless things have changed since last I played (has been a couple weeks) there was lots of teamwork and it was imo even cooler then battlefield because of how epic the battles were, infantry/tanks/air vehicles. It felt like you were in a war (like battlefield) but even more so.

My favorite moment that I wish I had recorded was when 20+ (no i'm not exaggerating) drop ships came from my team and all of them landed and then a ton of infantry poured out and we ended up taking the base. Coolest thing I have ever seen in a shooter.

I look at the sky and see 20+ drop ships and I just got chills of awesomeness lol.


Yeah this game is not perfect by any mean, but if you give it the chance it will bring you things that you cannot experience in any other game.
Yesterday I joined the biggest platoon on Miller NC, and after we capped a tech plant I scouted a huge colomn of ennemy vehicules from my reaver coming in our direction. I thought we were going to get crushed, but we somehow managed to maintain our position for quite a long time. It's was absolutely awesome to see the ennemy armor slowly crawling in our direction from the air, and see our troops take defensive positions. I was in an airfighter so I was giving intel to my team on their position, all the while trying to take down ennemy air.
This game can be frustrating, and his not easy to pick up by any mean (you need to have some experience to know where you can find interesting battles), but it's really worth it.
Deleted User 101379
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
4849 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-10 09:45:56
January 10 2013 09:26 GMT
#2565
On January 10 2013 17:35 LaNague wrote:
is this game fun for someone who generally hates shooters but loves the battlefield series?

i read a lot of complaints about the game focusing too much on K/D ratios and not enough on teamplay and objectives.
is this still the case?


10GB takes a long time for me to download atm, so im asking instead.


There are 2 ways to play PS2:

1. The CoD way: Play for KDR, don't use teamplay, just run around - or rather don't and hide behind forcefields - and kill stuff as you see it. Then complain that vehicles are OP, get bored of the game and uninstall.
2. The BF/TF2 way: F*ck KDR, use teamwork, play for objectives, use global strategy to pick the bases to fight, enjoy the game and suddenly notice that you played since 8 hours without a break and you have to go to work in 2 hours.

Many people play the CoD way and those are the people that complain a lot about "no metagame", "constant grinding" and such. Yes, playing that way gets you more XP than option #2 and you get a nice KDR to brag about, but you miss 90% of what the game is about. The other way might give less XP - i.e. less unlocks and such - but you will enjoy the time with the game a lot more. It really depends on how YOU decide to play.

Personally, i let others play for KDR or whatever they want and i just focus on objectives and teamplay. Others with the same amount of playtime have twice my Battlerank - i.e. 3+ times the XP - and my KDR is at 0.75 but i don't care. I play with the platoon and have some epic fights instead. Dying is FUN.

On January 10 2013 10:44 daemir wrote:
Fun fact, TR guns actually do not have higher ROF than other faction weapons.


Well, true, we NC have the GD-7F which is probably the only weapon that lets us duel TR or VS at close range but your default weapons all have higher RoF than NC default weapons.
However, i see TR not as "high RoF" but "lots of bullets" instead, just check the clip sizes. You guys can miss half your shots and still kill 2 people before you have to reload.
daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-10 12:32:22
January 10 2013 12:31 GMT
#2566
Ah yes, with fine default weapons such as the TRAC5 that has a 2nd bullet recoil to the left and up so far that you'll miss on any range above 10 meters, good thing it has the fire rate, oh wait it doesn't, well at least there's magazine size to account for missing 80% of your shots. Give me solstice any day over that shit gun. Give me Orion any day over CARV. Only thing I don't wanna trade out is my rams 50 or my haymaker.

No but seriously, if there was some smedbuck way to transfer my current character from one faction to another, I wouldn't think even 5 seconds to go over to Vanu. Better guns, better tanks. Spandex looks, but well, I guess every faction needs a downside.
Lucumo
Profile Joined January 2010
6850 Posts
January 10 2013 15:11 GMT
#2567
Darn aircraft vehicles, destroy my Sunderer with one shot/one bomb...such bs.
gostunv
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Japan1178 Posts
January 10 2013 15:22 GMT
#2568
On January 11 2013 00:11 Lucumo wrote:
Darn aircraft vehicles, destroy my Sunderer with one shot/one bomb...such bs.


im pretty sure thats not possible. even with a dalton.
teamblackeye.com ///// http://www.youtube.com/user/gostunv ///// https://twitter.com/forgenjuro
Deleted User 101379
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
4849 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-10 15:26:59
January 10 2013 15:26 GMT
#2569
On January 11 2013 00:11 Lucumo wrote:
Darn aircraft vehicles, destroy my Sunderer with one shot/one bomb...such bs.


No aircraft can destroy a Sunderer in one shot. It's more likely that either an Engineer with Anti-Tank Mines or a Light Assault with C4 managed to sneak to the Sunderer and blow it up.

2 AT Mines destroy a Sunderer instantly.
2 C4 get a full-health Sunderer to ~1% health, causing it to burn down in a few seconds unless an Engineer instantly repairs it.

http://www.zspr.us/ps2stats.html
Divine-Sneaker
Profile Joined August 2010
Denmark1225 Posts
January 10 2013 15:38 GMT
#2570
Even a dalton takes like 4-5 shots at least to destroy a sunderer.
Lucumo
Profile Joined January 2010
6850 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-10 16:00:20
January 10 2013 15:59 GMT
#2571
On January 11 2013 00:26 Morfildur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2013 00:11 Lucumo wrote:
Darn aircraft vehicles, destroy my Sunderer with one shot/one bomb...such bs.


No aircraft can destroy a Sunderer in one shot. It's more likely that either an Engineer with Anti-Tank Mines or a Light Assault with C4 managed to sneak to the Sunderer and blow it up.

2 AT Mines destroy a Sunderer instantly.
2 C4 get a full-health Sunderer to ~1% health, causing it to burn down in a few seconds unless an Engineer instantly repairs it.

http://www.zspr.us/ps2stats.html

I was right next to it and there were no enemy soldiers in sight. The only thing which attacked was a chopper. Just finished repairing some minor damage and not even a second later it got destroyed. So it went from 100% to zero in an instant.
Jochan
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Poland1730 Posts
January 10 2013 16:11 GMT
#2572
On January 11 2013 00:59 Lucumo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2013 00:26 Morfildur wrote:
On January 11 2013 00:11 Lucumo wrote:
Darn aircraft vehicles, destroy my Sunderer with one shot/one bomb...such bs.


No aircraft can destroy a Sunderer in one shot. It's more likely that either an Engineer with Anti-Tank Mines or a Light Assault with C4 managed to sneak to the Sunderer and blow it up.

2 AT Mines destroy a Sunderer instantly.
2 C4 get a full-health Sunderer to ~1% health, causing it to burn down in a few seconds unless an Engineer instantly repairs it.

http://www.zspr.us/ps2stats.html

I was right next to it and there were no enemy soldiers in sight. The only thing which attacked was a chopper. Just finished repairing some minor damage and not even a second later it got destroyed. So it went from 100% to zero in an instant.

Number of things could have happened, apart from these which were posted you cannot overlook your team. I've seen at least 2 times when my/our sunderer was griefed by crew right next to it because it was parked in a sweat spot (bio lab elevators). What happened to me once was, I've bumped other sundie while sliding down the slope (I couldn't get over it) and I've just touched it while breaking, just a comic book *bump* and other sundie blew up. What I am getting at is bugs
"(...)all in the game, yo. All in the game"
Lucumo
Profile Joined January 2010
6850 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-10 17:05:40
January 10 2013 16:23 GMT
#2573
On January 11 2013 01:11 Jochan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2013 00:59 Lucumo wrote:
On January 11 2013 00:26 Morfildur wrote:
On January 11 2013 00:11 Lucumo wrote:
Darn aircraft vehicles, destroy my Sunderer with one shot/one bomb...such bs.


No aircraft can destroy a Sunderer in one shot. It's more likely that either an Engineer with Anti-Tank Mines or a Light Assault with C4 managed to sneak to the Sunderer and blow it up.

2 AT Mines destroy a Sunderer instantly.
2 C4 get a full-health Sunderer to ~1% health, causing it to burn down in a few seconds unless an Engineer instantly repairs it.

http://www.zspr.us/ps2stats.html

I was right next to it and there were no enemy soldiers in sight. The only thing which attacked was a chopper. Just finished repairing some minor damage and not even a second later it got destroyed. So it went from 100% to zero in an instant.

Number of things could have happened, apart from these which were posted you cannot overlook your team. I've seen at least 2 times when my/our sunderer was griefed by crew right next to it because it was parked in a sweat spot (bio lab elevators). What happened to me once was, I've bumped other sundie while sliding down the slope (I couldn't get over it) and I've just touched it while breaking, just a comic book *bump* and other sundie blew up. What I am getting at is bugs

Since it was only one explosion, I guess so. But it was deployed in a normal spot, not somewhere "weird". Apart from me, there was only one other guy but he was busy taking the point.

/edit: As a chopper, how do you stay mid-air without moving at all? A single one of those can camp an entire spawn, so unless you have air support, it's GG.
Hoban
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1600 Posts
January 10 2013 17:24 GMT
#2574
I am new to planetside and planetside 2, any suggested resources?

Have some experience with Battlefield 3 and other FPS but run-n-gun bores the hell out of me.
"I am a leaf on the wind."
Rah
Profile Joined February 2010
United States973 Posts
January 10 2013 17:29 GMT
#2575
I'm sorry, but anyone still blaming OP guns for their deaths are just being bad. Except for zere, he's drunk. There are faction specific guns that are stronger in certain situations, an extreme example being NC maxes in a bio lab, but there's always ways to play around them. It adds to the fun.
Streaming on twitch. http://www.twitch.tv/rahsun86
Harvey18
Profile Joined December 2012
Netherlands165 Posts
January 10 2013 17:33 GMT
#2576
Game is too taxing for my computer unfortunately
IRL_Sinister
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Ireland621 Posts
January 10 2013 18:30 GMT
#2577
On January 11 2013 02:24 Hoban wrote:
I am new to planetside and planetside 2, any suggested resources?

Have some experience with Battlefield 3 and other FPS but run-n-gun bores the hell out of me.


Join the TL Outfit and run with us. We'll help with whatever we can.
LLuke
Profile Joined May 2010
Austria228 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-10 19:00:02
January 10 2013 18:58 GMT
#2578
On January 11 2013 03:30 IRL_Sinister wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2013 02:24 Hoban wrote:
I am new to planetside and planetside 2, any suggested resources?

Have some experience with Battlefield 3 and other FPS but run-n-gun bores the hell out of me.


Join the TL Outfit and run with us. We'll help with whatever we can.


Which one is the most active? I've read some pages earlier that people from europe should join on Mattherson, is this true (I finished downloading some time ago and I want to join too!)
Tripping off the beat kinda, dripping off the meatgrinder
Spazer
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada8031 Posts
January 10 2013 19:21 GMT
#2579
On January 11 2013 01:23 Lucumo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2013 01:11 Jochan wrote:
On January 11 2013 00:59 Lucumo wrote:
On January 11 2013 00:26 Morfildur wrote:
On January 11 2013 00:11 Lucumo wrote:
Darn aircraft vehicles, destroy my Sunderer with one shot/one bomb...such bs.


No aircraft can destroy a Sunderer in one shot. It's more likely that either an Engineer with Anti-Tank Mines or a Light Assault with C4 managed to sneak to the Sunderer and blow it up.

2 AT Mines destroy a Sunderer instantly.
2 C4 get a full-health Sunderer to ~1% health, causing it to burn down in a few seconds unless an Engineer instantly repairs it.

http://www.zspr.us/ps2stats.html

I was right next to it and there were no enemy soldiers in sight. The only thing which attacked was a chopper. Just finished repairing some minor damage and not even a second later it got destroyed. So it went from 100% to zero in an instant.

Number of things could have happened, apart from these which were posted you cannot overlook your team. I've seen at least 2 times when my/our sunderer was griefed by crew right next to it because it was parked in a sweat spot (bio lab elevators). What happened to me once was, I've bumped other sundie while sliding down the slope (I couldn't get over it) and I've just touched it while breaking, just a comic book *bump* and other sundie blew up. What I am getting at is bugs

Since it was only one explosion, I guess so. But it was deployed in a normal spot, not somewhere "weird". Apart from me, there was only one other guy but he was busy taking the point.

/edit: As a chopper, how do you stay mid-air without moving at all? A single one of those can camp an entire spawn, so unless you have air support, it's GG.

All aircraft autohover when your speed is low enough. So just hold s and tap spacebar.
Liquipedia
IRL_Sinister
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Ireland621 Posts
January 10 2013 19:39 GMT
#2580
On January 11 2013 03:58 LLuke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2013 03:30 IRL_Sinister wrote:
On January 11 2013 02:24 Hoban wrote:
I am new to planetside and planetside 2, any suggested resources?

Have some experience with Battlefield 3 and other FPS but run-n-gun bores the hell out of me.


Join the TL Outfit and run with us. We'll help with whatever we can.


Which one is the most active? I've read some pages earlier that people from europe should join on Mattherson, is this true (I finished downloading some time ago and I want to join too!)


Yes, Mattherson US.
Prev 1 127 128 129 130 131 186 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Chat StarLeague
17:00
CHICAGO LAN Day 1
LiquipediaDiscussion
CSO Cup
16:00
# 85
Liquipedia
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
15:55
FSL TeamLeague 9: ASH vs RR
Freeedom30
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SpeCial 111
ProTech82
JuggernautJason61
ForJumy 41
Dewaltoss 37
Vindicta 1
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 33917
Rain 3470
Horang2 1237
Larva 903
BeSt 315
firebathero 210
hero 114
Hyun 79
ggaemo 67
Rock 31
[ Show more ]
scan(afreeca) 16
Dota 2
Gorgc13108
Counter-Strike
summit1g352
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King59
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor180
Other Games
gofns2740
FrodaN2106
Beastyqt679
Lowko329
Hui .189
KnowMe182
Trikslyr63
OptimusSC27
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick788
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• 3DClanTV 76
• printf 39
• tFFMrPink 21
• davetesta13
• OhrlRock 1
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 9
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2700
League of Legends
• Nemesis3739
Counter-Strike
• Shiphtur386
Other Games
• imaqtpie773
Upcoming Events
[BSL 2025] Weekly
9m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
16h 9m
SC Evo League
18h 9m
Chat StarLeague
22h 9m
Replay Cast
1d 6h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 16h
Queen vs HyuN
EffOrt vs Calm
Wardi Open
1d 17h
RotterdaM Event
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Rush vs TBD
Jaedong vs Mong
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
herO vs TBD
Royal vs Barracks
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
LiuLi Cup
5 days
Cosmonarchy
5 days
OyAji vs Sziky
Sziky vs WolFix
WolFix vs OyAji
BSL Team Wars
6 days
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
BSL Team Wars
6 days
Team Hawk vs Team Bonyth
SC Evo League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Jiahua Invitational
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
Acropolis #4 - TS1
CSLAN 3
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
EC S1
Sisters' Call Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.