It finally got done eh? It looks quite awesome, might take a look at it sometime. Is this thing well balanced?
I do remember reading the guy's blog a year or two ago. He acts kind of like a douchebag would, if said douchebag was good at balancing fighting games :p
On January 19 2011 05:26 slivaz wrote: It finally got done eh? It looks quite awesome, might take a look at it sometime. Is this thing well balanced?
I do remember reading the guy's blog a year or two ago. He acts kind of like a douchebag would, if said douchebag was good at balancing fighting games :p
I guess this is the whole BitByBit argument of whether playing to win can make you a douchebag. Honestly, I don't see how it can, since he's not known for (as far as I know) BM. If he's spamming low strong or whatever that's his prerogative.
On January 19 2011 05:26 slivaz wrote: It finally got done eh? It looks quite awesome, might take a look at it sometime. Is this thing well balanced?
I do remember reading the guy's blog a year or two ago. He acts kind of like a douchebag would, if said douchebag was good at balancing fighting games :p
I guess this is the whole BitByBit argument of whether playing to win can make you a douchebag. Honestly, I don't see how it can, since he's not known for (as far as I know) BM. If he's spamming low strong or whatever that's his prerogative.
Yeah, it's really unfortunate. Sirlin has gotten a pretty bad rap since "playing to win" is held up like a sacred mantra by every mediocre player who wants an excuse to BM. Playing to win, by Sirlin's own definition, is doing everything possible within the confines of the game. It is not an excuse to, say, kick your opponent in the shins, or hope that he/she falls gravely ill with leukemia mid-match. Those both fall squarely outside the realm of what any good player looks for in a game.
For those who have no idea what's going on, it's a satirical compilation of David Sirlin (maker of the Yomi card game) quotes, disguised as a KOF2000 Hinako combo video.
Sirlin aside, I don't know too much about the card game. I'm sure if it's about mind games and reading the opponent, I'd lose pretty badly though.
It's Sirlin so I'm sure the game should be fairly balanced. Only thing I have against him is how stupid he is haha. I'll try the game out and hit you up some other time. It should be good.
This game is really great! It's a ton of fun and very strategical.
It is, at its core, RPS, but it's a lot more complicated and involved. It's expensive, yes, but you can play for free online so that takes some of the sting out.
Awesome game, been playing it online a lot lately. Lots of mind games and reading of the opponent. All the characters feel very different and each have there strengths and weaknesses. From what I can see , the game is pretty damn balanced with maybe a couple of bad matchups. I high recommend you guys give this game a try. Thanks Trozz for showing me an awesome game. (trozz=RL friend)
On January 19 2011 05:26 slivaz wrote: It finally got done eh? It looks quite awesome, might take a look at it sometime. Is this thing well balanced?
I do remember reading the guy's blog a year or two ago. He acts kind of like a douchebag would, if said douchebag was good at balancing fighting games :p
I guess this is the whole BitByBit argument of whether playing to win can make you a douchebag. Honestly, I don't see how it can, since he's not known for (as far as I know) BM. If he's spamming low strong or whatever that's his prerogative.
Yeah, it's really unfortunate. Sirlin has gotten a pretty bad rap since "playing to win" is held up like a sacred mantra by every mediocre player who wants an excuse to BM. Playing to win, by Sirlin's own definition, is doing everything possible within the confines of the game. It is not an excuse to, say, kick your opponent in the shins, or hope that he/she falls gravely ill with leukemia mid-match. Those both fall squarely outside the realm of what any good player looks for in a game.
I'm sorry that I worded my response poorly. I didn't mean to say anything about his "playing to win" attitude, which I actually like. It was more his elitist attitude and inability to accept other's opinions that made him seem like a jerk. There was also a specific case where he was sore that he lost a tournament match (years before, in one of the SFA games against Justin Wong IIRC) when he clearly was the better player, blaming it on vague "tournament clutch".
I think the guy is extremely smart and one of the best in the industry at balancing games. I have a deep respect for the way he figured out the age-old SSF2T-code without any knowledge but his ingame expertise. Yomi is also a great game, but I probably won't be playing it more.
I think he is a douchebag, but I still respect his opinions. And he is an awesome game balancer (not so much a designer).
I am a member of his forums and everyone thinks he is pretty arrogant and he makes it impossible to discuss certain topics. However, yomi is amazing.
Board game reviewer Tom Vassal gave it 10/10
Here is a super cool review, specifically the end where drakkenstrike gives a cool speech about his video game history and why he loves yomi so much because of it:
I'm considering buying this, but after about an hour playing the beta, I still don't understand it... if anyone is good at explaining things I'd love to talk over vent/skype/teamspeak and play a few games. PM me plz
Just played some games of this again and noticed the addition of mix-up normals, which werent part of the game last time I played. Gotta say I'm eager to play around with that mechanic some more.
Just got into the game myself, and damn it is awesome. About as fun as Magic if not more so, and ultimately much cheaper. It's a great feeling to just know that the opponent is going to throw a naked True Power of Storms and block. And be right about it. Yomi is quickly shaping up to be my favourite competitive game. Why?
1. Unlike Magic decks which are usually built to do a single thing really well, Yomi decks can switch gears in the middle of the game if the pilot determines the current approach just isn't working, a bit like players can do in Starcraft.
2. Unlike games like Starcraft, it's still a card game and can quickly be played offline just about wherever you please. The card-based nature also eliminates execution requirements, for the most part.
3. Watching someone get completely destroyed in Yomi is truly scary. Much more so than it is in Starcraft or Magic or whatever. Why? In Starcraft and Magic, the ideal strategy is a non-interactive one: You strat is just so much better that your opponent basically can't do anything meaningful. In Yomi, you absolutely have to interact with the opponent due to constant RPS exchanges, barring perhaps Setsuki and Lum. If someone can't touch his opponent in Yomi, it's because the opponent is inside his head. No amount of valuation skill can completely annihilate an opponent: Valuation can win consistently, but only reading can provide massive blowouts.
In the end, it all comes down to one thing, though: Yomi is just plain fun. Fun and addictive. And it doesn't milk you to death and isn't balanced by Dustin Browder. Can't wait for the real cardboard version to land in Finland.
EDIT: If there's one glaring negative to Yomi, it's that it is quite unwatchable due to the lack of a board. You come to the middle of a Magic or Starcraft match and chances are that you'll quickly figure out where the game is going based on the board state if you're familiar with the game. Yomi? Not so much. The gamestate is essentially the history of the players' RPS interactions which leave little noticeable trace to the later gamestate. Doesn't make it any less fun to play, but a bit of a bitch to learn the ins and outs of.
I own the box version. I enjoy it quite a bit. I haven't checked out the online version but I'll be interested in checking it out.
The full set is expensive, but the cards and mats are good quality. My only complaint about the boxed version are the slightly cheap card boxes. The cards themselves are fine though.
On January 29 2011 13:42 Trozz wrote: I like Geiger most. With Temporal Distortion, You'll make BIG combos.
wow, i executed someone with a 75+ combo. The game didnt let me finish the combo though, i still had cards left to put in hehe
i feel geiger is really dependant onhow he draws in the beginning, either he can start gathering the cards for his death combo, or if that doesnt seem viable, he has to do 2hit combos. If that is the case, he will never have the deathcombo
still his King specials are awesome, and he has good damage even on short combos. he doesnt have counters though..
Wow, just got into this. Yomi is pretty damn awesome. But this definitely needs more players. I gotta say the online interface is not really appealing to newcomers. You need some kind of tutorial and also a better layout but the the game itself is great.
What I really like is that the characters are all very different and there is something for everyone's playstyle. That's not something common in cardgames.
I remember this game, found bout it while reading Sirlin's blog. Played the free beta a bit, sounds fun. I've been thinking bout buying the decks (I'd rather prefer to play with the real cards), but unfortunately I dunno anyone who might be interested to play as well :/
Alright I have played this game for many months now. I want to give my honest opinions despite my bias toward sirlin and his stuff (as I post on his forums a lot). I guess I'm not really a top player but having played for so long I feel I can make informed and correct judgements about this game and its balance.
First I want to say that yomi is not a game that tests the skill of "yomi" or whatever sirlin means when he talks about people knowing what the opponent will do next. Yeah it is a real skill, and yes, it is important to have, but above all Yomi tests your valuation skills. Valuation is the skill of knowing the best move to make knowing the current gamestate and knowing what your character and the enemy character are capable of. I would say probably 70% valutiation, 20% luck, 10% yomi honestly.
-Some players started using a randomizer that picked their card for them, but they found that doing this game them an incredibly low winrate. Almost never winning. -Some players then started using a different method of randomizing their cards to decrease the dependency some people have on their yomi skills. The method was depending on what card you draw, do an attack or throw or dodge or block. These players got like 60%+ winrates.
With those 2 points, you can see that yomi is not a true test of yomi. The players in the second point were able to use their valuation skills while the players in the first point could not. As a result, higher winrates.
A common complaint (maybe not correct word choice) is the variance of the game. I don't mean the rock>paper>scissors variance, just the typical TCG variance you get from drawing cards from a deck. Some characters rely on certain cards to win, and sometimes they don't draw them when they are needed. It is almost unanimously agreed on that Grave, Geiger, Argagarg, and Rook are the lowest varience while, well, everyone else is pretty high.
But even though I main Grave and Arg, I still find myself not getting the draws I need. Some matchups I feel for grave are completely reliant on J and it is very difficult to win without it.
As for the balance, it has been proven (somewhere, if I find it again I'll edit the link in) statistically that it is more balanced than any fighter ever. The top tier characters are top tier because they have no bad matchups and maybe one or two 6-4. And it is the same with the lowest tier: 5-5 matchups except a few 4-6. There is one infamous matchup and that is Rook vs Lum. I've heard some people say it is 2-8 in favor of Lum but I think it is closer to 3.5-6.5. Yeah it is bad and it feels unwinnable but its possible
Anyway this game is amazing and super fun and really well balanced. If I could make like 2 small changes to decrease the variance it would be a 10/10 game. Unfortunately those changes won't be implemented ever (sirlin said maybe in 10 years he'll do a second edition where maybe changes will be made) and after playing the game for so long, I can say they ruin the game for me.
I got to try this yesterday with a friend who bought the box.
I'm a pretty hardcore fan of customization since I love building decks in magic, so I was sceptical at first. After playing a few rounds yesterday and a few additional games today through the online client I can say that it's a pretty cool game.
Also I completely agree with the above post. I've never been a fighting game type of guy, but I feel this "yomi" deal doesn't really apply to this cardgame much. I find myself just trying to find the best play instead of mindgaming the opponent.
Yomi might not be suited for everyone, but since it's free it's definitely worth a try.
I am bumping this thread because the game got updated with an expansion. The game is awesome. You can play it for free if you want. You have one character free for 3 days and then it changes. Also if you win a match you get 10 tokens that can be spent playing with whatever character you want in the game. When you log in you also receive 10 tokens to use it as above.
I can see already people complaining that it is not all free (this is for future comments regarding the payment system). The game is great and Sirlin needs a way to support what he loves to do. But if you want just to enjoy a game or two without any hassle you can do that as well. But if you get hooked like I did then you will see it is a really competitive card game which is really similar to SC2. Don't expect to come and win. You will lose a lot until you learn the characters traits, abilities and power cards.
Though once you learn how to play a bit you will see that it is quite fun. The community is great as well. I am attaching pictures with some of the newest characters and also how it looks in game.
Still loving this game. The new characters are great fun. I especially like Vendetta because he's made to resemble Vega/Balrog/Claw from Street Fighter. Also there's finally a Dhalsim equivalent!
All that said I don't like the new UI and the online format. Do you know how long it will be till this stuff goes to print?
I don't know how long it will be. There is still the issue of balancing the characters right now. After it will reach a reasonable balance then the version 2.0 will be released with all 20 characters rebalanced.
Pity. I was going to get the boxed version of the first edition eventually, but now that there's an expansion I feel like I should just wait for that one, especially as some of the characters are going to be changed/updated.
EPT![[image loading]](http://static.shopify.com/s/files/1/0043/0802/assets/yomi_logo.png){kind=logo}
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