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On December 07 2013 17:27 akatama wrote:A small piece of advice that made me enjoy the game much much more: don't powergame! Don't try to min-max your character, don't plan much. It's all about immersion! Get in your character's shoes for a few moments and avoid meta-gaming. It will become much more enjoyable. Turn that damn compass off and start exploring! I highly recommend Requiem to undo the level scaling and fundamentally change mechanics in a realistic way (you will probably die a dozen times in the starting dungeon and another few dozen before you get accustomed to it). Ever since Morrowind, TES games have been about much more than the base game. True, TES 3 was a gem straight out of the box (but I could never find the will to properly role-play it... the skill system just begs to be gamed hard), but the real value is in modding. You play the game on release, you come back after a few months when you discover an awesome mod, spend another 100 hours and so on. Damn, if only it had proper multiplayer...
Granted it was super easy to power abuse in TES games, people tend to forget some of the greatest RPGs of all time that allow character diversity and customization are highly abusable. It's like people forgot about the nonsense that was W/M dual class in BG1/2 or Kensai/Mage combo in BG2. Or how about Hammerdins/Light Sorcs in D2, Knights of the Round in FF7, blah blah blah
Fact of the matter is the ability to power game in an open world game SHOULD be there. Open world games should allow you to make decisions on how you want to play the game, and for the most part TES games are really good at that (despite having some atrocious game systems regarding NPCs/Mob scaling, though Skyrim fixed most of that). All this bitching about 'powergaming' doesn't really make much sense to me.
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On December 08 2013 22:59 Archas wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 17:16 Godwrath wrote:Hey, just started playing the game, I bought it a few months ago, and didn't enjoy the vanilla version too much, i tried out installing mods, and i have no problem whatsoever but installing SkyRe is proving to be a pain in the ass. It's just not working, i installed the 00916 as i was told, the 1301 just to try out but nothing, everytime the game crashes at the startup. I arranged the plugin order etc, and i tried out withouth any mod. I am currently playing on spanish, is it fine this way ? Hell i wanted that perk system  SkyRe is very finicky when you don't have Dawnguard and Dragonborn installed. If you want to use SkyRe, I would recommend buying those so you can have minimum fuss with conflicts and CTDs. Besides, the pre-Dawnguard version is very unstable when being used with other, more recent mods.
Thank you very much. Yes, i do not have those expansions, and i don't think i will get them, 30 euros each one seems like a lot, do they really expand the game that much?.
Edit - I also managed to make it work today... dumb me it was the simplest thing...
Complaining about classes being overpowered if you min max on single player games.... that's actually the point for some people, like BG1 solo dual class, and i am fairly certain it has happened on every single game. Some may be easier to find the optimal builds, i actually remember in oblivion i was just cruising through content, that i ended up rushing the main story because i was already bored. So either you play on the maximum difficulty, or if that's not enough, you handicap yourself or get mods (for those games mod friendly).
You can't please everybody. It's a matter of fact.
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They don't cost 30€. Skyrim with all DLC costs like 18€. You could just get the files "from a friend" and copy them in your folder and see what happens. 
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Just thought I would post this here, I've been enjoying a pretty massive let's play by Gopher :
http://www.youtube.com/user/GophersVids
His series is called Let's play Skyrim Again which has over a hundred hours of gameplay. I haven't watched his first series yet, I may watch it after but this series is massive enough that I think I'll take a break after it.
He's pretty much a hardcore roleplayer and pretty fun to watch. It definitively made me reinstall Skyrim for a bit. I'm up to Chapter 3 (half way through his videos approx although he's still making some) and I'm just starting to get a bit bored of it, mostly because I watched all of it within 2 weeks.
Still, if you enjoy Skyrim and want to see another take on it from some British dude, it's definitely a fun watch. Main gripe is he is pretty bad in some fights, running in circles to dodge and going crazy when his enemy has 1-2 hits left and he's full health.
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I watch alot of his videos. He has actually help me mod my game with his instruction videos. He runs in combat like that for a reason, his story due to Richard being who he is, or because of Skyre, which even if your enemy has 1 to 2 hits left can still one shot you as a light or no armor character.
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So I wonder if this game is worthwhile to play all over again just to try out these glorious mods everyone is talking about. I like to think of myself as a more hardcore RPG gamer, and with the two recent Bethesda games (Oblivion and Skyrim), the overwhelming sense I get is that all of the quests are very superficial and there isn't really any depth in the game. Exploring the dungeons was fun, but quickly it just becomes apparent they repeat most of the elements over and over again like they did in Oblivion and it gets tiring. Beyond that nothing you do actually has any meaningful effect in the game, its really just a pure level grinding experience which is fun but not *that* amazing to invest hundreds of hours.
Now apparently people have significantly increased the interactivity, the depth of quests, the depth of the magic system, the graphics have improved...and level scaling is no longer as broken as it was before. I wonder if this game could actually be a challenging RPG to play? At the same time I worry I've experienced most of the core game already and these mods are really just a very nice icing on the cake. I'll have to do some research to see whether this is worthwhile, in the meantime thanks for posting Gophers vids, I think that'll be a pretty good introduction.
In the mean time: My $1 independence war 2 gaming is very challenging and rewarding  .
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United States7483 Posts
On December 09 2013 02:32 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 17:27 akatama wrote:A small piece of advice that made me enjoy the game much much more: don't powergame! Don't try to min-max your character, don't plan much. It's all about immersion! Get in your character's shoes for a few moments and avoid meta-gaming. It will become much more enjoyable. Turn that damn compass off and start exploring! I highly recommend Requiem to undo the level scaling and fundamentally change mechanics in a realistic way (you will probably die a dozen times in the starting dungeon and another few dozen before you get accustomed to it). Ever since Morrowind, TES games have been about much more than the base game. True, TES 3 was a gem straight out of the box (but I could never find the will to properly role-play it... the skill system just begs to be gamed hard), but the real value is in modding. You play the game on release, you come back after a few months when you discover an awesome mod, spend another 100 hours and so on. Damn, if only it had proper multiplayer... Granted it was super easy to power abuse in TES games, people tend to forget some of the greatest RPGs of all time that allow character diversity and customization are highly abusable. It's like people forgot about the nonsense that was W/M dual class in BG1/2 or Kensai/Mage combo in BG2. Or how about Hammerdins/Light Sorcs in D2, Knights of the Round in FF7, blah blah blah Fact of the matter is the ability to power game in an open world game SHOULD be there. Open world games should allow you to make decisions on how you want to play the game, and for the most part TES games are really good at that (despite having some atrocious game systems regarding NPCs/Mob scaling, though Skyrim fixed most of that). All this bitching about 'powergaming' doesn't really make much sense to me.
People want a challenging game while simultaneously trying to puzzle out the strongest way to play the game. The complaints about skyrim is that they have no difficulty figuring out how to overcome challenges, because power gaming is so strong and trivial to accomplish.
I solved that issue for me by adding a bunch of difficulty mods and rescaling a bunch of stuff.
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On December 14 2013 06:02 Whitewing wrote:
I solved that issue for me by adding a bunch of difficulty mods and rescaling a bunch of stuff.
Even that didn't work for me. Even with a plethora of difficulty mods I still needed to drop my carry weight to 100 (less gold income), make leveling 50% faster (higher level enemies even faster) and make prices 100% worse (less gold income again) along with rushing through the game to keep the difficulty consistent. And then even then combat was less than entertaining.
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United States7483 Posts
On December 14 2013 06:36 iTzSnypah wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 06:02 Whitewing wrote:
I solved that issue for me by adding a bunch of difficulty mods and rescaling a bunch of stuff. Even that didn't work for me. Even with a plethora of difficulty mods I still needed to drop my carry weight to 100 (less gold income), make leveling 50% faster (higher level enemies even faster) and make prices 100% worse (less gold income again) along with rushing through the game to keep the difficulty consistent. And then even then combat was less than entertaining.
I said I rescaled a bunch of stuff too =p.
It also helps a lot if you voluntarily limit yourself to only one of the 3 crafting trees: either do smithing, or enchanting, or alchemy, but never more than 1 of them.
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I started a new playthrough recently after not playing the game for almost 2 years I think now. ( played at release for 2 months )
I started to use a lot of mods, and it's really fun. I haven't gotten the feeling that the game is too easy. I only play on Expert with SkyRe + Duel + deadly dragons / dragon combat overhaul + Sneak Tools
I focus on Archery with shortbows, Sneak, Alchemy, Fingersmith ( which is actually useful in SkyRe ) , Light armor and Light weaponry.
And honestly, even tho I can kill things pretty easily in Stealth, if I fuck up and get spotted by an enemy, they kill me really quickly. There's definitely some challenge.
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No it's not. You just run away and then come back and sneak kill them. Then you get good with aiming with the bow (even with the reticule off) and then you are back to sniping from half the level away. TBH sneaking is fine and dandy, but sneaking with a bow breaks the game so hard.
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I just got my 780 ti in the mail yesterday, I can't wait to finally be able to mod the hell out of this game! I have pretty much played it without any graphics mods the last 2 years, so I am very excited~
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I got my R9-280x lately and finally I can run Skyrim with ENB in solid FPS. Skyrim with ENB needs a crazy amount of power, even more than BF4 on Ultra for me.
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On December 14 2013 07:47 iTzSnypah wrote:
No it's not. You just run away and then come back and sneak kill them. Then you get good with aiming with the bow (even with the reticule off) and then you are back to sniping from half the level away. TBH sneaking is fine and dandy, but sneaking with a bow breaks the game so hard.
I tend to force myself to sneak with my dagger more than my bow. In SkyRe daggers sneak attack are x15 and bows are only x2 up to x3. Shortbow are short range weapon in SkyRe. You do more damage the closest you are.
And with the sneak mods, you can't just run away and let them forget about you, they will come after you.
The realistic combat mods make it so you can't really use the bow against Mages, since spells kills your aim. And you can't just attack bandits or draug in numbers with it because you won't kill all of them before they reach you. Draug will just stagger you with their shouts too.
I'm pretty happy with my settings.
I played sneak with bow in my first playthrought when the game was released with no mods at all, and yeah it was broken as shit. I didn't even touch the broken smithing / enchanting back then and it was still silly.
Sneak Tools make it a lot of fun. Noise Arrow, Water Arrows from Thief to shutdown lights. Oil and fire arrows to make your own oil traps to handle groups.
Honestly I got the shortbow for the specials arrows and the dragons fights more than anything.
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On December 09 2013 02:32 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 17:27 akatama wrote:A small piece of advice that made me enjoy the game much much more: don't powergame! Don't try to min-max your character, don't plan much. It's all about immersion! Get in your character's shoes for a few moments and avoid meta-gaming. It will become much more enjoyable. Turn that damn compass off and start exploring! I highly recommend Requiem to undo the level scaling and fundamentally change mechanics in a realistic way (you will probably die a dozen times in the starting dungeon and another few dozen before you get accustomed to it). Ever since Morrowind, TES games have been about much more than the base game. True, TES 3 was a gem straight out of the box (but I could never find the will to properly role-play it... the skill system just begs to be gamed hard), but the real value is in modding. You play the game on release, you come back after a few months when you discover an awesome mod, spend another 100 hours and so on. Damn, if only it had proper multiplayer... Granted it was super easy to power abuse in TES games, people tend to forget some of the greatest RPGs of all time that allow character diversity and customization are highly abusable. It's like people forgot about the nonsense that was W/M dual class in BG1/2 or Kensai/Mage combo in BG2. Or how about Hammerdins/Light Sorcs in D2, Knights of the Round in FF7, blah blah blah Fact of the matter is the ability to power game in an open world game SHOULD be there. Open world games should allow you to make decisions on how you want to play the game, and for the most part TES games are really good at that (despite having some atrocious game systems regarding NPCs/Mob scaling, though Skyrim fixed most of that). All this bitching about 'powergaming' doesn't really make much sense to me.
Ok, say you powergame it. You plan for 1 hour, then go play and in 10 hours you have the strongest character you could ever have. You 1-shot things and take close to no damage. Then what? You get bored! Exploration has little sense when you are playing it god-mode. Why even bother going in a dungeon, knowing you cannot get any useful loot and no NPC's inside pose a challenge? For the story (I know Skyrim's sucks at first glance)? Why not watch a movie or read a book for that?
A game is much more than a story. It's about immersion, interaction and overcoming challenges (and competition if we are talking about online ones).
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I'm going to start a new playthrough of Skyrim. I've gone the sword & board route but ended up snored & bored, and didn't finish the story even. Playing as a magic user was somewhat more fun, but I'm interested to hear any suggestions for fun and/or unusual builds/playstyles either in vanilla or with any combination of mods.
I should add that I was a big fan of the mods such as Oscuro's for Oblivion, where after a couple of years I played through again and found a completely different game waiting for me. Is there anything like that for Skyrim?
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I would give SkyRe a go, it's a good one. There's Requim if you want some painful "challenge", but I found the perk trees in it so bloody uninspiring after playing with SkyRe that I couldn't stomach. SkyRe has its bugs, like there's these spells that allow you to create phantom images that you can cast other spells on for various effects, one of them is basicly a taunt, the phantom begins to cast a high level destruction spell so creatures should be drawn to attack it, only as soon as you cast that on a phantom it instant casts a real destruction spell and likely kills you :D But once you learn the few pitfalls and bugs and avoid them, it's great.
Playing pure cloth mage what I'm currently doing and it's quite fun. You are squishy as hell and most things will one shot you, but they usually have to go through your summoned monsters and rune traps on the ground first. Have to say dragons (from Deadly Dragons mod) are major pita though, since they definately can one hit you while flying in the air with spells of their own.
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If I were to play the game again, I would go pure mage. They offer completely different gameplay and it's pretty fun; a lot different than the click and bash type gameplay of a melee warrior.
Possibly even "pacifist" mage, using illusion magic as my sole way to kill things and otherwise only using utility skills from alteration and such, as well as sneaking around a lot.
I've been watching a play through of someone doing so and it's pretty interesting (he has some pretty bad sound issues the first bunch of videos though; it gets better over time) :
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3B9EB1C41AD92C4A
Skyrim is a game that you can really play in a lot of ways. As long as you want to roleplay, it's a lot of fun. What makes it boring is if you abuse the system to get Daedric armor off the bat, max out all your skills by grinding them and then just destroy everything in 1 hit while being pretty much unkillable. Playing like this is fun for a while, but it gets boring pretty quickly once you've achieved your goals. On the other hand, roleplaying and sticking to a role (or only shifting roles through character building experiences in the game) can keep you playing for hundreds of hours.
Mods also add a ton to the game. Frostfall for example adds a survival element (you get cold, wet, can die, need to eat, etc) and there are hundreds of mods to add little things or even huge things (Falksaar (sp.) adds a TON of new content in a whole new area... the guy who made it got hired by Bungie because of this mod).
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Yep, I'm running Frostfall on my mage run. Idea is to keep to cloth armors, use magic to fight (which does not exclude using conjured weapons though), summons, illusions, destruction and even a bit of restoration as SkyRe adds some offensive options to that. Then there's the whole necromancy business you can do, which is lovely, have your own skeletal army shambling about!
With Frostfall the northern parts of Skyrim really do feel bloody cold! Want to adventure during the night? Well, hope you got some badass frost resistance, because the northern nights are COLD and you can freeze to death. Put some added atmosphere using some lighting mods to make dark really dark, as in, you have to use light spells and torchers to see 1 meter infront of you if there's no natural light sources and nights become deadly as hell when that bear you totally did not see suddenly rips your squishy mage's head off :D Also, getting soaked in water is nearly a death sentence if the weather is freezing, love that whole aspect so much.
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My experience of Skyrim was that powergaming just made the game feel a lot better. I left the 'main quest' to the very last, after I had explored all of skyrim and there was nothing else to do. I powergamed the hell out of it, to the point where I was killing basically every enemy in one shot. Steam nonetheless reports 226 hours invested into the game, by far the most of any game in steam. I have not tried any TCs nor DLC and this represents time spent with a single character, as after 200+ hours invested in a game I feel like I should at least find the time to finish other games first. If powergaming is leaving you with nothing to do in Skyrim, you're doing it wrong.
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