EPTNatural Selection 2 - Page 18
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Snuggles
United States1865 Posts
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Sicion
Germany131 Posts
On November 12 2012 01:29 lepape wrote: On the other hand, there is a Training mode in which anyone can familiarize himself with the basic commander controls, there's even tutorial videos in-game. I've never seen anyone get angry at a commander who does mistakes, but then again, if it takes you 10 minutes to build a single extractor, there are other options to learn the basics without ruining the game for your team. Im not talking about basics here but more about coordinating a team: guys attack this point, defend the base, build expansion, executing tactics or overall strategic goals. Training videos or modes dont really teach guiding a team! Dont get me wrong people dont get angry often and are not running around rage flaming that one guy. Most of the time they just say "Stay away from com you suck. Go rookie!" but after that people will stay away from going Com and maybe dont come back in the future. Playing as a com is stressful enough without getting flamed. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
On November 12 2012 02:19 Snuggles wrote: This game looks interesting. How well developed is the RTS side of the game? Will being a good SC2 player help at all? Having good multitasking which you get from sc will be helpful. Instead of making workers you just have to place resource nodes as your players secure them. When your not doing that, you split your time between ordering and helping your marines with various abilities and base building and getting upgrades. Overall its much less demanding then sc2. | ||
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Body_Shield
Canada3368 Posts
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Snuggles
United States1865 Posts
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
On November 12 2012 02:43 Snuggles wrote: Haha, sim city in NS2. I might just pre-order this game. It looks like a pretty good package deal for $40, the game, an artbook (really?), soundtrack, in-game model, it's not bad. Do you get instant access to the beta if you pre-order like in WarZ? ??? The game is not in beta, its released. and its only $25 for the game alone. | ||
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Snuggles
United States1865 Posts
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
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Sicion
Germany131 Posts
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bluQ
Germany1724 Posts
On November 12 2012 02:19 Snuggles wrote: This game looks interesting. How well developed is the RTS side of the game? Will being a good SC2 player help at all? Yea higher APM than most FPS guys and overall a better rounded strategic thought process will help you a lot. And as someone said: multitasking + hotkeying. From time to time i have some people getting excited because I'm pretty fast with dropping medpacks&ammo and stuff xD On November 12 2012 02:28 PassiveAce wrote: [...] Overall its much less demanding then sc2. I can't agree here tho, I find it from time to time more tiring than Sc2 if you play 3-4 games in row as commander with a good team. Since your "units" are not "waiting" for your commands, they rather demand them, it gets more stressed. You need to evaluate the priority of your teammates demands with the things you see on map and have planned out as your BO. I wouldn't say its less or more stressful, just in different types of stress. | ||
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carraway
264 Posts
An interesting dimension that doesn't exist in SC2 is the fact that sometimes you kind of have to adjust your BO based on the relative skill of your team. You can't play an aggressive early game with fast weapon ups if your rines can't actually hit skulks, for example. | ||
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bluQ
Germany1724 Posts
On November 12 2012 06:39 carraway wrote: NS2 relies upon mostly the same skillsets as SC2, but as bluQ said, it's a very different type of stress. Multitasking is supremely important; the comm UI helps you less than SC2's UI does. Both macro and micro are also vital. I can't speak much about the alien comm side of things, but for rines, with a decent team your comm should never ever be idle, even in a lategame stalemate situation (or perhaps, even less so in that situation). Building MACs, rebuilding turret nests, commanding arcs, dropping medpacks and ammo, buffing nanoshield, placing scans, and all the while directing your rine team who all have brains of their own (some better than others, and some with better shooting skills than others) -- it all keeps you very busy. An interesting dimension that doesn't exist in SC2 is the fact that sometimes you kind of have to adjust your BO based on the relative skill of your team. You can't play an aggressive early game with fast weapon ups if your rines can't actually hit skulks, for example. To share some alien insight (which I always call Zerg bymistake xD) the comm is less dependant on the teammates in terms of building stuff. Tho a good alien comm will cordinate where to harass, attack and defend. You can imagine it as controlling 3 packs of speed reapears in a 3v3 to harass the enemys. Just that you plan the harasses instead of really executing it. The executing part of an alien commander lies more in spreading creep (yes dear Zerg players, you can spread creep in an RTS, isnt that what we all wanted? :D) keep your infestation(/creep) network intact (if one cyst(creeptumor) is destroyed and the connection to a hive via creep is lost your buildings and creep will start to degenerate (wouldn't that what T's want? destroy one creep tumor and the others infront of it start to die off). Tho in lategame I always struggle more as alien commander than as marine commander. For aliens there is almost never a real "stalemate" where your team camps one/two places. You always want your skulks out on the map destroying and harassing RTs and Techpoints. Tho it can happen that you will see a group of 6+ marines evantually will rush a hive and that's where the stress and fun as alien comm comes in. Coordinate your team to fallback to a hive and threaten that rush. But somehow make it work that you break the push AND do damage on some other side. So to put it in a nutshell: Rine Comm in lategame; pretty focused on a few locations, multitasking only in terms of coordinating a big rush or a defensive wise. Alin Comm in lategame; needs to be all over the map in terms of focus, keep high attention to possible rushes, multitask a lot to keep creep intact and build defensive structures to support constant attacks or defend. Edit: when im again fully into the game I'll try to make some tutorial vids especially for SC2 players. | ||
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ChiknAdobo
United States208 Posts
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bluQ
Germany1724 Posts
On November 14 2012 10:53 ChiknAdobo wrote: Are there control groups and/or camera location hotkeys? I can't seem to find them. Control groups are like sc2: hit ctrl+number to bind and call with hitting the number you bound to. (ctrl+1 -> 1) About camera hotkeys, I don't think so, but since you have constant on-top view it is pretty easy to jump from location to location to hear and watch if something is going on. | ||
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
Of course, it doesn't make sense in 1v1 games (like going into random custom 1v1 games in BW and destroying people or getting destroyed easily) but in a team game it really shines. NS1 was one of those games where I played for fun and I didn't worry about stat tracking or anything because I can easily prove to be good by just being good (even in situations where your team is doing bad, unlike MOBAs). I'm glad that NS2 doesn't have any stat tracking. Maybe they can do achievements or how many welder kills against onos you have (just for fun) but it makes it so people are more nice towards others (and also people stat pad less). That's actually a positive point for most FPS team games in general (as opposed to MMOs and or MOBAs for example, where you can't really do much to differentiate yourself a lot of the times). The problem with FPS stat tracking is the issue of stat padding (like say someone in BF2 or BF3 just doing something to keep raking up kills than actually doing the objectives or something for example) but since there aren't any stat recording or automatic match making, the problem doesn't exist in NS2. This can lead to a better community because people don't care about winning or losing because it affects their "MMR" or stat padding because they want that nice K:D ratio in their stat screen. You can always show how good you are by just being good. (Again, this applies to team based games. Solo games, obviously things like MMR and stat tracking work better like in SC2.) Of course, again, I wouldn't mind mindless achievements like 1000 welder kills or leveling up to get rewards like customization for your marine or something like that but I'm glad that there isn't any like leaderboards or stat tracking in NS2 as I feel like NS1 and NS2 are both games where you can easily show you're good by just being good. In NS1, I used to frequent 1-2 servers and the people that were good became well known quickly because either consistently got top score or (if they were a com) they consistently (I say partly thanks to morale from being commanded by a vet) won games if they commanded. ______________________ Speaking of not caring about winning or losing - + Show Spoiler + NS1 was one of those rare games where I actually had fun playing regardless of winning or losing. One of my favorite things to do (that actually got out of hand on a server I frequented >.>) was to build a defense chamber gorge fort after losing the game. Now, I only did it when we were about to lose. I wasn't the only one who did it, I actually joined someone else doing it. One game, it got out of hand so bad that like 5 of us from the server built a gorge fort before we actually lost and we screwed our entire team (though the server was really close and most people knew each other... also we had an admin join us too, so that meant no one got banned or warned for not playing srsly >.>). Anyway, that only totally happened for a few games (back to playing to win for us after that). Yep, NS1 is a game where you just played for fun (and you could show you were good at the game too), regardless of winning or losing. Hopefully, NS2 continues that tradition. Unlike "party games" (which "can" be serious business at times), NS isn't a mindless casual game but despite that, the game somehow doesn't promote too many jerks or snobs or srs business players. Besides maybe *"combat mode sux" people. NS1 has a great community and hopefully NS2 continues that trends. *Which only really exists on forums. Anyway, it goes that combat divided NS1 community in half but IMO, it helped keep NS1 alive. I used to play mostly classic, then sometimes combat, then back to classic. Overall, I played a mix of both to keep things refreshing. If combat wasn't introduced, then NS1 would have had a smaller community because people would move onto other games instead (like the whole SC2 is dying posts on these forums, the competition is fierce now so the games have to step it up). Also, Combat totally requires team work. I frequented a combat server and there was always team work (/xmenu and combat buildings adds a lot). I'm not going to say (just take my word for it, it's possible, it's like when you join a Dota 2 game and everyone talks and works together except it happens all the time). If anyone doesn't know what combat is, it was a game mode in NS1 that made it sort of like a MOBA or Dota game in a way. You gained levels instead of harvesting resources and there is one simple objective to take out their main structure. The mods like combat buildings (which added phase gates and other stuff) added more teamplay and support elements to the mode. It definitely isn't just a mindless casual game mode (it can get that way if no one is talking though). There were lots of fun neat strategies you can do in the game mode too (like everyone rush mines at level 2 or everyone goes gorge at level 2 and heal spray rush the opposing team). (Actually gorge rush was viable and more powerful in ns classic than combat, it's actually one of the more common "cheeses" or "all in strategies" in NS1). | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
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Snuggles
United States1865 Posts
First of all, I'm REALLY surprised at how nice everyone is. Like holy shit, people actually said "It's okay, we all have to start somewhere" on my first few tries at commander. Sure some people were disgruntled, but NOT ONE single person lashed out at me like people would when I was learning Dota 2. Omfg, this community is filled saints, I almost think that there's something wrong with it because it's too nice. Playing Commander. This shit is fun. Especially for an RTS player like myself. Once I learned the ropes, I began formulating BO's for myself and thinking up different ways to tech up. I don't know if it just my way of thinking being a Zerg player, but it seems to me that Aliens follow a lot of the same principles that an opening BO for Zerg would have. It seemed most effective to me to spread my cyst out to the closest expo, tagging the resource nodes along the way, getting Hive first and then planting the harvestors down. From there on I just wing it and people seem to love it. There's no micro involved so I'm basically left to sit there to spread creep like a madman, upgrade, and fortify, you really feel like a commander and not just an RTS player. Then when I'm too tired to play commander I can just run out and shoot bitches or chomp people's asses which is some nice mindless fun. It's a really good casual game, not sure how it works it competitively but I'm having a lot of fun with it. I do have a question for you guys as well, I don't play Marine comm as much as Alien so when it gets to late game and my teammates can't seem to push through 2 - 3 Onos with 2 - 3 exos, what should I do? Are arc tanks the answer? | ||
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Body_Shield
Canada3368 Posts
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Durak
Canada3685 Posts
On November 15 2012 12:51 Snuggles wrote: First of all, I'm REALLY surprised at how nice everyone is. Like holy shit, people actually said "It's okay, we all have to start somewhere" on my first few tries at commander. Sure some people were disgruntled, but NOT ONE single person lashed out at me like people would when I was learning Dota 2. Omfg, this community is filled saints, I almost think that there's something wrong with it because it's too nice. I haven't played NS2 yet but I am surprised and impressed that this is the case. My hypothesis is that the experienced players who decide to play on open community servers are nice and those who are really competitive just stick to locked private servers. The new players who get this welcoming reception from the skilled players then repeat that for other new players. Good job however you did it NS2 community. | ||
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Infernal_dream
United States2359 Posts
On November 15 2012 13:02 Durak wrote: I haven't played NS2 yet but I am surprised and impressed that this is the case. My hypothesis is that the experienced players who decide to play on open community servers are nice and those who are really competitive just stick to locked private servers. The new players who get this welcoming reception from the skilled players then repeat that for other new players. Good job however you did it NS2 community. I gotta agree. Just got done playing commander for the first time and both rounds the team was very very very helpful and patient. Explaining why I'm building what i'm building and where I'm building it. It's nice to see a community that's not full of jerkoffs that seem to plague every other game. Actually makes you want to go and try new stuff just to see if it'll work since there's no fear of the whole team blasting you for it. | ||
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