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Fishgle
United States2174 Posts
On November 08 2014 07:37 Thieving Magpie wrote: I'd be competitive for honor and glory. I've competed for far far less. Bragging rights vs friends is worth more than any number of prize packs. | ||
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
On November 08 2014 07:40 Fishgle wrote: Bragging rights vs friends is worth more than any number of prize packs. the last PTQ i went to I played simply because my buddy was still playing for top 8 and I was like 5-3 going into the 9th round. I played against a BGx player who resolved that enchantment that gives all creatures -1/-1. Judge sat down next to me I looked at him and said watch this, flash back Lingering souls getting nothing and then swung in for lethal and was like "style points bitch" and both my opponent and judge died laughing. I play for Honor glory and stlye point 100% more than prize. It's why I like playing magic with people who like to banter. You can make funny comments like that and they get it's a joke and don't get offended. Makes the game a lot more fun when you toss comments back and forth. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
On November 09 2014 04:27 Judicator wrote: Riley Curran's deck on stream for SCG Columbus right now is pretty much the Sultai control deck that I tested, down to the Extinguish All Hope in the sideboard... I've played with him multiple times, he shows up my LGS for event all the time. Cool dude and good magic player. | ||
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WindWolf
Sweden11767 Posts
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Cixah
United States11285 Posts
On November 09 2014 18:22 WindWolf wrote: Has anyone had a chance to try out the new Commander 2014 decks? Friends were playing them VS my Oloro. 3v1 is fun, some of the new cards (the lieutenants in particular) are pretty house. They are pretty strong stand alone tbh, plus the money cards in the White and Red ones make them worth picking up IMO. I'm probably going back in on Friday for the Green and Red ones that I still need to just finish the set. | ||
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WindWolf
Sweden11767 Posts
On November 09 2014 21:30 Cixah wrote: Friends were playing them VS my Oloro. 3v1 is fun, some of the new cards (the lieutenants in particular) are pretty house. They are pretty strong stand alone tbh, plus the money cards in the White and Red ones make them worth picking up IMO. I'm probably going back in on Friday for the Green and Red ones that I still need to just finish the set. Cool. I'm getting one copy of the white deck as soon as my LGS gets their shipment. | ||
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Cixah
United States11285 Posts
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On November 10 2014 19:42 Cixah wrote: Has anyone really delve'd into testing an Esper list for standard? I feel like there's something there, especially with Pearl Lake Ancient as a finisher. Mana is shit and White adds relatively nothing to shore up UB's bad match ups. Pearl Lake is just an alright finisher, can be tempo-ed out especially game 1 where removal spells just piles up in the hand. | ||
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On November 11 2014 01:43 Whole wrote: The small upgrades is not worth the inconsistent mana. UB and UW control work because they can actually keep up tempo with other decks. "Small Upgrades?" You have access to End Hostilities, Banishing Light, Deicide/Erase and an alternative finisher in Elspeth. You have 8 fetches and a billion dual lands for mana. This argument is bullshit. Whether or not Esper is better than UB, I don't know. I think it's close. I win more games with Abzan midrange against UB than I do against Esper, but that's just one data point. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On November 11 2014 02:37 deth2munkies wrote: "Small Upgrades?" You have access to End Hostilities, Banishing Light, Deicide/Erase and an alternative finisher in Elspeth. You have 8 fetches and a billion dual lands for mana. This argument is bullshit. Whether or not Esper is better than UB, I don't know. I think it's close. I win more games with Abzan midrange against UB than I do against Esper, but that's just one data point. The upgrades are relatively minor though. For example: banishing light vs Hero's downfall. How many 3cc removal spells can we play? Last breath vs Bile Blight, which creatures are you more scared of? Etc... So far white doesn't provide a new angle to versus black (other than being easier to splash) The previous standard, white provided the best wrath in supreme verdict and black provided Thoughtseize. Right now it's arguable which is the better wrath between end hostilities killing bu creatures and drown in sorrow being a cheap wrath. Although I do agree with you on the mana base. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On November 11 2014 02:37 deth2munkies wrote: "Small Upgrades?" You have access to End Hostilities, Banishing Light, Deicide/Erase and an alternative finisher in Elspeth. You have 8 fetches and a billion dual lands for mana. This argument is bullshit. Whether or not Esper is better than UB, I don't know. I think it's close. I win more games with Abzan midrange against UB than I do against Esper, but that's just one data point. It's small. Vault is better than End Hostilities in most situations. Banishing Light is just sorcery speed removal spell with drawback that interacts with the opponent after they have already gotten the effects. Vault is better here too. Decide is whatever (cause of Vault), Elspeth is the only draw, but again Hero's Downfalls tend to get stacked in the opponent's hand right now and you aren't playing both Elspeth and Pearl Lake Ancient with whatever number of Prognostic Sphinxes out of the board. Abzan shouldn't beat UB if UB knows what they're doing and if Abzan doesn't board heavily for it (which they shouldn't since UB isn't that common of a deck). Being able to play Nullify in UB and not in Esper (your mana is atrocious) makes a difference here if you have tap lands. You have no reach outside of Rhinos and certainly your threats aren't immune to Vault. Now Abzan can board for the match up, but that's a serious opportunity cost right now in the meta. I would say Vault is better than End Hostilities/Banishing Light combined since I don't need to tap out on 5 or 3. The key turn 3 I can have tapped land plus UU up for Nullify in the important match ups. With Bile Blight I have answers for Rabblemaster on turn 2 on the draw, with nullify I have answers for turn 3 Siege Rhinos on the draw. On the play I can strip hands with Thoughtseize/Despise and just destroy the curve. Elspeth versus PLA is more interesting since there have been games where PLA is better. I use to think that Elspeth is better than PLA but now I am not so sure, being able to replay Radiant Fountains (a card you won't ever see Esper) will actually close the game out. Being able to blank removal is also relevant (just be mindful of the tempo hit). As someone who tested Sultai to Esper to now settle on UB, I would say UB is definitely more consistent on turns 1-3 than Esper is. Vault's just too efficient right now in control decks to warrant any other alternatives since it's fantastic against all of the mid range strategies for 4 cards. As for the fetchland argument, you can run the same number of fetchlands in UB (I do in fact) and get a turn 4 Dig Through Time. It's pretty silly at times. Edit: The mana base is atrocious for this reason, you need UU, BB and you will take a lot of damage if you don't line up correctly. If you fetch for UU or BB, you might not have W or even WW for Hostilities. The mana base is atrocious enough on turns 1-3 to where I don't want to play the deck. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
It's not *that* bad, nor is the mana base that inconsistent. The problem is that it doesn't gain anything relevant. For Esper to work you'd have to focus on having a UW shell with a light black splash. White cards are easier to splash after all. You get to run a combination of vault and end hostilities and you are able have room for 2-5 black cards between main and sideboard. But is it really worth it to have a slightly less stable mana base for a UW control deck with 2-3 sideboard Thoughtseize? I personally think no--but I wouldn't say it's as game shatteringly bad as you make it out to be. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On November 11 2014 08:23 Thieving Magpie wrote: @Judicator It's not *that* bad, nor is the mana base that inconsistent. The problem is that it doesn't gain anything relevant. For Esper to work you'd have to focus on having a UW shell with a light black splash. White cards are easier to splash after all. You get to run a combination of vault and end hostilities and you are able have room for 2-5 black cards between main and sideboard. But is it really worth it to have a slightly less stable mana base for a UW control deck with 2-3 sideboard Thoughtseize? I personally think no--but I wouldn't say it's as game shatteringly bad as you make it out to be. The light white splash isn't that light since its WW, now you would think you can fetch it up consistently, but you really can't sometimes and that's just too costly for me. The increased risk isn't worth it and the negative side is just god awful. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On November 11 2014 09:33 Thieving Magpie wrote: Splashing white is not an option. You either splash 2-4 Thoughtsieze in a UW shell (and that's all the black you can splash) or you go UB. UBw is beyond no bueno. I see what you are saying now, but that makes it a UW deck (which doesn't exist). If you aren't splashing white then you can't play Vault so....that build was never on my radar. But that doesn't seem like an actual deck... | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On November 11 2014 15:18 Judicator wrote: I see what you are saying now, but that makes it a UW deck (which doesn't exist). If you aren't splashing white then you can't play Vault so....that build was never on my radar. But that doesn't seem like an actual deck... Because its not. Bile Blight > Last Breath since Heroes Downfall > Banishing Light Vault >= End Hostilities etc... UW is weaker, but requires less colors since you don't need WW until turn 5, making it a mostly blue deck. The main advantage being that you can run less pain lands and more life gain lands. And if rush was faster that would actually be something that matters. But blitz decks are kept in check by Abzan decks (heroic combo shenanigans not withstanding) making UB superior to UW in all ways that matter. | ||
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Ephemerality
United States203 Posts
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