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On September 10 2013 13:18 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 08:36 Cel.erity wrote:On September 10 2013 03:29 Thieving Magpie wrote:On September 09 2013 19:29 braller wrote:
Diabolic Tutor is absolutely worth it when you have double Doom Blade. Normally, the tempo loss means that it's a dubious card to run, but being able to fetch up a cheap removal spell makes it very good (obviously you also want to have powerful threats to search for; Sengir Vampire certainly qualifies there). 3BBB cantrip removal is amazing [2BB Tutor + 1B Doomblade] It's like having invasion's Annihilate that can be a Sengir Vampire when you don't need removal. What? It's not 3BBB cantrip removal, it's just 3BBB removal. I guess I consider anything that thins the deck a pseudo cantrip--personal interpretation. Kind of like how fetchlands thin the deck.
Fetchlands thin your deck of lands, so they are pseudo-card advantage, because you don't want to draw lands. Thinning your deck of a bomb or removal spell is more like pseudo-card disadvantage, unless you've got a way to get it back if it dies.
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Thinning deck of a single card is almost meaningless, I remember there being some famous math article out there.
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On September 10 2013 13:20 FireSA wrote:reprint this, make it scry 1, give it instant, make it uncommon. Done.
You kidding? That would be insane. Preordain is already banned in modern.
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On September 10 2013 18:15 BlueBird. wrote:
Thinning deck of a single card is almost meaningless, I remember there being some famous math article out there.
Yes, it's worth something like 5-7% of a card per turn in limited. But if the game does go to turn 15 or whatever, you've lost half a card on average by tutoring out a good spell. It's obviously leaning more on the side of card disadvantage.
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On September 10 2013 18:19 Jugan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 13:20 FireSA wrote:On September 10 2013 13:17 Thieving Magpie wrote:On September 10 2013 13:12 FireSA wrote:
Soooo dissolve looks good? 1UU counter spell, scry 1? I like it. I just want a draw spell now, would prefer instant, that says scry 1, draw a card. Give me that, wotc, and I will be happy http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=preordain reprint this, make it scry 1, give it instant, make it uncommon. Done. You kidding? That would be insane. Preordain is already banned in modern.
Back when Mark Wahlberg was Marky Mark... Opt
PS: Sure would love that reprint.
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You kidding? That would be insane. Preordain is already banned in modern.
that's primarily because it combos stupidly with things that aren't available in standard though. Not saying it isn't terrifying strong, but I don't think it's a broken card in a two set environment, just a must play like voice or abrupt decay if you're in the colours.
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On September 10 2013 19:00 hrough wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 18:19 Jugan wrote:On September 10 2013 13:20 FireSA wrote:On September 10 2013 13:17 Thieving Magpie wrote:On September 10 2013 13:12 FireSA wrote:
Soooo dissolve looks good? 1UU counter spell, scry 1? I like it. I just want a draw spell now, would prefer instant, that says scry 1, draw a card. Give me that, wotc, and I will be happy http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=preordain reprint this, make it scry 1, give it instant, make it uncommon. Done. You kidding? That would be insane. Preordain is already banned in modern. Back when Mark Wahlberg was Marky Mark... OptPS: Sure would love that reprint.
Isn't there like 3 of these?
Draw scry2
Scry2 draw
Opt
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On September 10 2013 23:24 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 19:00 hrough wrote:On September 10 2013 18:19 Jugan wrote:On September 10 2013 13:20 FireSA wrote:On September 10 2013 13:17 Thieving Magpie wrote:On September 10 2013 13:12 FireSA wrote:
Soooo dissolve looks good? 1UU counter spell, scry 1? I like it. I just want a draw spell now, would prefer instant, that says scry 1, draw a card. Give me that, wotc, and I will be happy http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=preordain reprint this, make it scry 1, give it instant, make it uncommon. Done. You kidding? That would be insane. Preordain is already banned in modern. Back when Mark Wahlberg was Marky Mark... OptPS: Sure would love that reprint. Isn't there like 3 of these? Draw scry2 Scry2 draw Opt
Opt
Preordain
Serum Visions
I'd rather still have old Counterspell back though. Or for Ponder to be unbanned in Modern. Or Bitterblossom. *sigh*
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United States24753 Posts
When you say old counterspell MoonBear you mean counter target spell for UU? I always feel ripped off when I play blue in casual with friends and they have better counterspells than me (mine cost 1UU) lol
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On September 10 2013 18:19 Jugan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 13:20 FireSA wrote:On September 10 2013 13:17 Thieving Magpie wrote:On September 10 2013 13:12 FireSA wrote:
Soooo dissolve looks good? 1UU counter spell, scry 1? I like it. I just want a draw spell now, would prefer instant, that says scry 1, draw a card. Give me that, wotc, and I will be happy http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=preordain reprint this, make it scry 1, give it instant, make it uncommon. Done. You kidding? That would be insane. Preordain is already banned in modern.
It's not insane, while I can't see a reprint, it's obviously worse than Preordain, cause who cares that it's instant? And it's not like Legacy Omniscience decks are jamming in Opt.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On September 10 2013 23:34 micronesia wrote:
When you say old counterspell MoonBear you mean counter target spell for UU? I always feel ripped off when I play blue in casual with friends and they have better counterspells than me (mine cost 1UU) lol
Yeah. No one has time to play three mana counterspells in Modern/Legacy. Too slow.
On September 10 2013 23:36 slyboogie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 18:19 Jugan wrote:On September 10 2013 13:20 FireSA wrote:On September 10 2013 13:17 Thieving Magpie wrote:On September 10 2013 13:12 FireSA wrote:
Soooo dissolve looks good? 1UU counter spell, scry 1? I like it. I just want a draw spell now, would prefer instant, that says scry 1, draw a card. Give me that, wotc, and I will be happy http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=preordain reprint this, make it scry 1, give it instant, make it uncommon. Done. You kidding? That would be insane. Preordain is already banned in modern. It's not insane, while I can't see a reprint, it's obviously worse than Preordain, cause who cares that it's instant? And it's not like Legacy Omniscience decks are jamming in Opt.
Legacy doesn't use Opt because you have some of the best dig spells in the game like Ponder. Brainstorm and Infernal Tutor. Why would you waste 4 cards some something subpar?
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On September 10 2013 18:52 Cel.erity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 18:15 BlueBird. wrote:
Thinning deck of a single card is almost meaningless, I remember there being some famous math article out there. Yes, it's worth something like 5-7% of a card per turn in limited. But if the game does go to turn 15 or whatever, you've lost half a card on average by tutoring out a good spell. It's obviously leaning more on the side of card disadvantage.
It is true that in a single draw event fetchlands only slightly change the probability of drawing a spell instead of a land. Of course this is an irrelevant statement since actual games of Magic depend on many draw events happening over the course of the game and they must all be considered together in order to gain any competitive insight into deck design.
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/print.php?Article=15815
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On September 11 2013 00:19 caelym wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 18:52 Cel.erity wrote:On September 10 2013 18:15 BlueBird. wrote:
Thinning deck of a single card is almost meaningless, I remember there being some famous math article out there. Yes, it's worth something like 5-7% of a card per turn in limited. But if the game does go to turn 15 or whatever, you've lost half a card on average by tutoring out a good spell. It's obviously leaning more on the side of card disadvantage. Show nested quote +It is true that in a single draw event fetchlands only slightly change the probability of drawing a spell instead of a land. Of course this is an irrelevant statement since actual games of Magic depend on many draw events happening over the course of the game and they must all be considered together in order to gain any competitive insight into deck design. http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/print.php?Article=15815
Nothing in that article contradicts my statement. My math is rough, I know, but it's not too far off. I'm not sure what you're arguing with.
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lol why do you people automatically assume I'm looking for an argument? The article I linked is relevant to the discussion and I just wanted to highlight that the small percentages add up after multiple turns and thinnings.
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Dunno, usually when people quote someone and post a link with no explanation, it's assumed they're trying to contradict the point. My mistake.
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On September 11 2013 00:45 Cel.erity wrote:
Dunno, usually when people quote someone and post a link with no explanation, it's assumed they're trying to contradict the point. My mistake.
I thought it was because someone asked for an article that talked about it.
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Attended my first "big" legacy tournament this weekend (38 players) and it was a ton of fun, much more than I had imagined. Part of it was probably because I did not play any "unfair" deck (like "oops, you don't play FoW, you died on turn 1"). This format is so diverse with so many powerful cards, interractions and strategies. Ended up going 4-2, placing 11th with Goblins.
I know it's an expensive format but if you like paper magic, that's really something to try.
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On September 11 2013 02:39 Merany wrote:
Attended my first "big" legacy tournament this weekend (38 players) and it was a ton of fun, much more than I had imagined. Part of it was probably because I did not play any "unfair" deck (like "oops, you don't play FoW, you died on turn 1"). This format is so diverse with so many powerful cards, interractions and strategies. Ended up going 4-2, placing 11th with Goblins.
I know it's an expensive format but if you like paper magic, that's really something to try.
Waiting for my cards to come in right, excited to try Legacy. Starcity Games last weekend had a bunch of unfair decks, but the previous 2-3 starcity games tournies had the more "honest" decks.
As I've kept up with Legacy the past several months, I find that its hard for combo decks to win because all it takes is a discard/force of will to stop them dead and so they have to play so safe. I've watched some streamed games of ANT players screwing themselves over playing around a force of will that wasn't there.
Its the best format for people who wants powerful plays with all the best cards but don't want their decks to look like 60 card Commander decks  + Show Spoiler +
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On September 11 2013 02:47 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2013 02:39 Merany wrote:
Attended my first "big" legacy tournament this weekend (38 players) and it was a ton of fun, much more than I had imagined. Part of it was probably because I did not play any "unfair" deck (like "oops, you don't play FoW, you died on turn 1"). This format is so diverse with so many powerful cards, interractions and strategies. Ended up going 4-2, placing 11th with Goblins.
I know it's an expensive format but if you like paper magic, that's really something to try. Waiting for my cards to come in right, excited to try Legacy. Starcity Games last weekend had a bunch of unfair decks, but the previous 2-3 starcity games tournies had the more "honest" decks. As I've kept up with Legacy the past several months, I find that its hard for combo decks to win because all it takes is a discard/force of will to stop them dead and so they have to play so safe. I've watched some streamed games of ANT players screwing themselves over playing around a force of will that wasn't there. Its the best format for people who wants powerful plays with all the best cards but don't want their decks to look like 60 card Commander decks + Show Spoiler +
I've always wondered how many Legacy tournies run "honest" decks vs. some of the retarded combos that have existed in the past (turn 0 or turn 1 autowins, etc). How can those dumb decks be fun? It's hard to quantify a gametype similar to the casual I play with my friends: You can play cards from any block, but stupid BS is banned. We don't even allow Infect decks.
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On September 11 2013 02:55 Crownlol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2013 02:47 Thieving Magpie wrote:On September 11 2013 02:39 Merany wrote:
Attended my first "big" legacy tournament this weekend (38 players) and it was a ton of fun, much more than I had imagined. Part of it was probably because I did not play any "unfair" deck (like "oops, you don't play FoW, you died on turn 1"). This format is so diverse with so many powerful cards, interractions and strategies. Ended up going 4-2, placing 11th with Goblins.
I know it's an expensive format but if you like paper magic, that's really something to try. Waiting for my cards to come in right, excited to try Legacy. Starcity Games last weekend had a bunch of unfair decks, but the previous 2-3 starcity games tournies had the more "honest" decks. As I've kept up with Legacy the past several months, I find that its hard for combo decks to win because all it takes is a discard/force of will to stop them dead and so they have to play so safe. I've watched some streamed games of ANT players screwing themselves over playing around a force of will that wasn't there. Its the best format for people who wants powerful plays with all the best cards but don't want their decks to look like 60 card Commander decks + Show Spoiler + I've always wondered how many Legacy tournies run "honest" decks vs. some of the retarded combos that have existed in the past (turn 0 or turn 1 autowins, etc). How can those dumb decks be fun? It's hard to quantify a gametype similar to the casual I play with my friends: You can play cards from any block, but stupid BS is banned. We don't even allow Infect decks.
Right now Delver decks of many varieties fill top 8s due to their combination of cheap threats and FoW. Death and Taxes/Junk/Maverick/Stoneblade are also prevalent due most combo decks being most consistent winning turns 3-5 allowing hate bears like Thalia to stall them long enough for creatures to kill them.
The main problem with those fast combo decks like belcher and its ilk is that the can at times lose to turn 1 discard or a well timed daze. "honest" decks are more robust being able to survive much more punishment before finally dying. A lot of times consistency wins in a tournament while brokenness wins in a random Bo1
A lot of people get drawn to how "unstoppable" a combo deck is, and then scream in anger when turn two Gaddock Teeg turns off their entire deck. Despite being fast, most of them can't go off till turns 2-5 and are easy to stop once you sideboard.
Think of it like those GM cannon-rushers. They love how fast they get their wins, but they'll never do well in an MLG.
This means honest decks are usually what wins tournaments. Assuming you think of something like RUG Delver as honest lol
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EPT
