• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 05:49
CET 11:49
KST 19:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Rongyi Cup S3 - RO16 Preview3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational10SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)19Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft 2 will not be in the Esports World Cup Rongyi Cup S3 - RO16 Preview herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey! SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list?
Tourneys
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open! SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone
Brood War
General
Gypsy to Korea [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Which foreign pros are considered the best? BW General Discussion BW AKA finder tool
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread NASA and the Private Sector Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Navigating the Risks and Rew…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1625 users

Magic: The Gathering - Page 41

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 39 40 41 42 43 665 Next
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
August 12 2011 04:42 GMT
#801
Dredge still viable despite the GT banning :\

Goyf isn't anywhere near as bad in Modern. Still I would need to dig for 3 more.
Get it by your hands...
Nub4ever
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada1981 Posts
August 12 2011 04:43 GMT
#802
How much is a tarmogoyf? I dontnplay modern, I just draft and try to get my tempered steel deck done so I can finally play FNM... Dem moxes.
Dota 3hard5me
Cixah
Profile Joined July 2010
United States11285 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-12 04:45:47
August 12 2011 04:44 GMT
#803
How are you playing dredge with out Dread Return?

Edit: Goyf is ~70 apiece.
Hug The Goat! Hug the Goat! Hug the Goat!
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-12 14:14:31
August 12 2011 12:09 GMT
#804
On August 12 2011 13:44 Cixah wrote:
How are you playing dredge with out Dread Return?

Edit: Goyf is ~70 apiece.


Dread's in Time Spiral...

Edit:
I apparently can't read, I didn't think they would ban Dread after banning Grave-troll...since their entire reasoning for banning GT was because of Dredge.
Get it by your hands...
Orpheos
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1663 Posts
August 12 2011 14:06 GMT
#805
im surprised at some of the bannings. I honeslty liked a wizards that was gunshy about banning cards. I agree with stoneforge, hypergen, glimpse, and dread return. but the others seem abit premature. I would rather them let the players figure out if it is really degenerate first.

as we know from SC1, if you can balance seemingly imbalanced units, it makes for an exciting game. and with the large cardpool available in modern, i think some of those problems can be solved.
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
August 12 2011 14:18 GMT
#806
On August 12 2011 23:06 Orpheos wrote:
im surprised at some of the bannings. I honeslty liked a wizards that was gunshy about banning cards. I agree with stoneforge, hypergen, glimpse, and dread return. but the others seem abit premature. I would rather them let the players figure out if it is really degenerate first.

as we know from SC1, if you can balance seemingly imbalanced units, it makes for an exciting game. and with the large cardpool available in modern, i think some of those problems can be solved.


Umm all of the cards banned are pretty self-evidently broken...

The ban I don't see why is Misstep.
Get it by your hands...
Orpheos
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1663 Posts
August 12 2011 15:46 GMT
#807
jace was fine for a long time. its only better in vintage because there is so much less attacking.

i feel like the past extended season had a healthy mix of scapeshift, fae, jund + tier2 decks.

again I may be wrong about this, but i dont think it is an 100% sure thing that they should ban bitterblossom, valakut, visions and jace. they shouldve let the metagame equilibrate abit before pulling the trigger on those things, which is what i think they wouldve done if the stoneforge fiasco werent on everybodies minds right now.
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
August 12 2011 16:39 GMT
#808
Jace was fine how? Either you played Jace or you played for Jace (aka the turn 4 decide your fate). The game was warped to that turn 4 play.

Bitterblossom you realize some decks just can't beat that card if it comes down on turn 2 right? Turn 1 Thoughtseize, turn 2 BB and you're just about counting on top decks against any player who knows the match up...which would be fine if Fae didn't have access to...VC...and more counters...

Valakut...you should know why post-board some decks just really can't beat it if the player knows what they're doing.
Get it by your hands...
Jaksiel
Profile Joined November 2008
United States4130 Posts
August 12 2011 16:40 GMT
#809
Well, it's a good thing I hadn't actually started testing extended for PT Philly yet...

As a longtime Dredge fan, I'm going to try my damnedest to make it work somehow, no matter how unlikely it is. It seems like Living End will be the most likely combo deck, though.
Zero fighting.
Orpheos
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1663 Posts
August 12 2011 17:42 GMT
#810
On August 13 2011 01:39 Judicator wrote:
Jace was fine how? Either you played Jace or you played for Jace (aka the turn 4 decide your fate). The game was warped to that turn 4 play.

Bitterblossom you realize some decks just can't beat that card if it comes down on turn 2 right? Turn 1 Thoughtseize, turn 2 BB and you're just about counting on top decks against any player who knows the match up...which would be fine if Fae didn't have access to...VC...and more counters...

Valakut...you should know why post-board some decks just really can't beat it if the player knows what they're doing.


jace was fine in shards-zen.

and again im not saying these arent really good and potentially degenerate. but i dont think they are 100% must bans until proven.
modern has a much larger card pool than when these things dominated. let players try to figure it out as a challenge. if they do you get a really high powered dynamic and fun format. if they dont, then you can ban stuff. this has always been wizard's ban strategy. the only reason why i dont think they have taken that route is that stoneforge is on everyones mind.

i think you really are just too scared of past experiences with these cards. it might happen, it might not. but until then why not have a period of time where you can let the game's best minds try to experiment. its eternal, ban it later if needed,
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
August 12 2011 17:49 GMT
#811
Jace was fine shards-zen because of BB Elf of which isn't that good in Modern.

It's not too scared it's the fact that I was a EXT player before the change and I am aware of what these cards do. Think you are underestimating what Jace does and how many games it ends in any format it's played in just by untapping with it.

Keep in mind that Jund was more or less dead last Extended season, it was good but it wasn't going to win anything.
Get it by your hands...
Ixirawr
Profile Joined May 2011
United States86 Posts
August 13 2011 00:17 GMT
#812
So... What the hell is this "modern" format?

Back when I used to play it was:
-Vintage
-Legacy
-Extended
-Standard
-Block
+Various limited formats.

Do these still exist? Where does Modern fit in?
taLbuk
Profile Joined April 2010
Madagascar1879 Posts
August 13 2011 00:25 GMT
#813
On August 13 2011 09:17 Ixirawr wrote:
So... What the hell is this "modern" format?

Back when I used to play it was:
-Vintage
-Legacy
-Extended
-Standard
-Block
+Various limited formats.

Do these still exist? Where does Modern fit in?


it replaces extended because extended is a horrible format in 90% of players eyes
aphorism
Profile Joined February 2011
United States226 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-13 00:27:59
August 13 2011 00:25 GMT
#814
On August 13 2011 09:17 Ixirawr wrote:
So... What the hell is this "modern" format?

Back when I used to play it was:
-Vintage
-Legacy
-Extended
-Standard
-Block
+Various limited formats.

Do these still exist? Where does Modern fit in?


All of those still exist. Modern is a more accessible non-rotating format, it basically uses cards from sets with the new card frame, minus a banned list of things like top, jitte, skullclamp, etc. You can read all about it here.
Lemonayd
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States745 Posts
August 13 2011 01:50 GMT
#815
Im about to sit down with my friend and talk some modern. Maelstrom Pulse is a card that i'm definitely thinking will be a good investment at this time.

I'll be attending pro tour philly ( not competing ) keeping an eye out for whats hot.
Cixah
Profile Joined July 2010
United States11285 Posts
August 13 2011 09:18 GMT
#816
I'm playing in Philly. TL Shirt day 1, team shirt if I day 2. I play alot at 3rd coast cards in Houston if any of you live near there. As for what I'm playing its as toss up. Zoo is prolly the big boogy man in the room at this point, and with the PT only 2 weeks away there isn't alot of time to play much of anything else.

There is also the possibility to play 12 post. 4 Cloudpost, 4 Vesuva, and 4 of the new locus land from scars or besiged. Add green or blue and play lots of crazy shit with near limitless mana (hello tooth and nail entwined turn 4/5). There is also the possiblity of playing some other really scary combo decks. Hell Pyromancer's Ascension is gunna be scary just because the deck has so much with 8 years worth of magic. Manamorphoes? Oh god.

As for the Jace discussion. Jace was always too good. There was never a situation where jace didn't hit the board and your opp. game plan changed from kill you to, oh god if that activates again I'm so outta this game.

Also as for extended, Last season was god awful. You played Shift or you played something that tried to beat it. I remember devoting something like 11? sideboard slots when I won my PTQ for Nagoya just to beat the deck. Now I never needed them all because Jace + Stoneforge + Vendillion Clique was just freaking OP. There wasn't beating that deck, there was praying that they got land flooded.
Hug The Goat! Hug the Goat! Hug the Goat!
Jaksiel
Profile Joined November 2008
United States4130 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-13 13:48:51
August 13 2011 13:48 GMT
#817
On August 13 2011 18:18 Cixah wrote:
I'm playing in Philly. TL Shirt day 1, team shirt if I day 2. I play alot at 3rd coast cards in Houston if any of you live near there. As for what I'm playing its as toss up. Zoo is prolly the big boogy man in the room at this point, and with the PT only 2 weeks away there isn't alot of time to play much of anything else.


I'll just be wearing generic clothing (you would think I would have a DraftMagic.com T-shirt, but I don't), but if I see a guy in a TL shirt I'll be sure to go say hi.

I can't see me playing Zoo. I'm probably going to try to find some sort of combo deck (Living End most likely), or maybe something like Doran.
Zero fighting.
deth2munkies
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4051 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-13 14:52:37
August 13 2011 14:42 GMT
#818
On August 13 2011 18:18 Cixah wrote:
I'm playing in Philly. TL Shirt day 1, team shirt if I day 2. I play alot at 3rd coast cards in Houston if any of you live near there. As for what I'm playing its as toss up. Zoo is prolly the big boogy man in the room at this point, and with the PT only 2 weeks away there isn't alot of time to play much of anything else.

There is also the possibility to play 12 post. 4 Cloudpost, 4 Vesuva, and 4 of the new locus land from scars or besiged. Add green or blue and play lots of crazy shit with near limitless mana (hello tooth and nail entwined turn 4/5). There is also the possiblity of playing some other really scary combo decks. Hell Pyromancer's Ascension is gunna be scary just because the deck has so much with 8 years worth of magic. Manamorphoes? Oh god.

As for the Jace discussion. Jace was always too good. There was never a situation where jace didn't hit the board and your opp. game plan changed from kill you to, oh god if that activates again I'm so outta this game.

Also as for extended, Last season was god awful. You played Shift or you played something that tried to beat it. I remember devoting something like 11? sideboard slots when I won my PTQ for Nagoya just to beat the deck. Now I never needed them all because Jace + Stoneforge + Vendillion Clique was just freaking OP. There wasn't beating that deck, there was praying that they got land flooded.

Oh hey, 3rd Coast. I've been to Asgard's and another place called Bo's, I was looking for a new place to try, are there a decent number of people there?

Seems like they have a draft tonight, so I'll probably head over, it is a bit far though, I'm from Sugar Land.

As for Modern format, I really don't care because I'm more of a recent addition to the game...I don't own any of the cards that'd be good in Modern, nor do I have the income to spend $200 buying them, but from what I'm seeing, it looks like quite a decent format, though I am surprised at the Bitterblossom ban. Faeries was good, but were they that OP?

A deck I'd be interested in seeing, though, would be a Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas deck since you have access to the Esper (including stuff like Master of Etherium and Etherium Sculptor) and Mirrodin (read: everything) artifacts on top of all the Scars stuff. From what I understand, Tezzerator was a deck and I think big daddy Tezzeret has a good chance in the new format. Just something to think about besides the obvious Zoo decks.
Cixah
Profile Joined July 2010
United States11285 Posts
August 13 2011 15:43 GMT
#819
On August 13 2011 23:42 deth2munkies wrote:
Oh hey, 3rd Coast. I've been to Asgard's and another place called Bo's, I was looking for a new place to try, are there a decent number of people there?

Seems like they have a draft tonight, so I'll probably head over, it is a bit far though, I'm from Sugar Land.

As for Modern format, I really don't care because I'm more of a recent addition to the game...I don't own any of the cards that'd be good in Modern, nor do I have the income to spend $200 buying them, but from what I'm seeing, it looks like quite a decent format, though I am surprised at the Bitterblossom ban. Faeries was good, but were they that OP?

A deck I'd be interested in seeing, though, would be a Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas deck since you have access to the Esper (including stuff like Master of Etherium and Etherium Sculptor) and Mirrodin (read: everything) artifacts on top of all the Scars stuff. From what I understand, Tezzerator was a deck and I think big daddy Tezzeret has a good chance in the new format. Just something to think about besides the obvious Zoo decks.


I know quite alot of people from Asgard's. Haibing (one of the members of the nats team) plays there alot, along with Houston's Level 2 Judge Hibbs. As for 3rd coast, Draft night is usually pretty big, assuming there are no out lying PTQs or what have you. Usually 2 pods of 12 or 13 happen on Saturdays, with Fridays constructed being free we also get usually no less than 40 people. The only crappy thing about free FNM's is the fact that you only get 3-4 people who bring serious competitive decks.


And now to the fun part about discussing bans. The reason why I'm happy they have done this is that there is no meta going into the PT. None of the decks that would normally dominate the "old extended" format exsist any more which leads to new decks and things that aren't completely stale from happening at a pro tour. Had bitterblossom not been banned 90% of the players going would have build the deck. Its still playable, but no when its so obvious that they want the decks to be aggressive because of the bans. I would most likely have played it myself. Most of the bans at this point weren't about "Was this OP" but more of, "We have a new eternal format, Lets make these deck in this format something new."

Now that doesn't mean people aren't going to just take old T1.5 decks and just remaster them with all new cards. Teachings Control didn't really get hurt at all, and everyone and their mother loves to play Teferi. White Weenie has always been really strong in extended, the only issue it had was that there were sooooo many control decks and its Fae matchup was pretty much 9-1 preboard for fae and then like 9.5-.5 afterward. With that gone it could very easily be a good call just because if you play against aggro all day you'll top 8 for sure.

I'm off to play in game day now, mostly because I like free stuff.
Hug The Goat! Hug the Goat! Hug the Goat!
Cixah
Profile Joined July 2010
United States11285 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-13 16:58:55
August 13 2011 16:51 GMT
#820
On August 13 2011 00:46 Orpheos wrote:
jace was fine for a long time. its only better in vintage because there is so much less attacking.

i feel like the past extended season had a healthy mix of scapeshift, fae, jund + tier2 decks.

again I may be wrong about this, but i dont think it is an 100% sure thing that they should ban bitterblossom, valakut, visions and jace. they shouldve let the metagame equilibrate abit before pulling the trigger on those things, which is what i think they wouldve done if the stoneforge fiasco werent on everybodies minds right now.



The reason Mistep, Jace, Stoneforge, and ancestral were all banned is because the deck they all build together was too strong.

Some list like this would be pretty much the only thing you saw in top 8 had it not happened.


Stoneforge x 4
Vendillion Clique x 3
Sun Titan x 2
Kitchen Finks x 4

Jace TMS x 3
Cryptic Command x 4
Spell Pierce/Ancestral Visions x 3
Mana Leak x 4
Batterskull x 2
Sword of Feast and Famine x 2
Dismember x 2
Path to Exile x 2

25 lands
4 Tech Edge
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Celestial Colonade
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Plains
3 Island

Some lists would prolly even play one of each different sword (SOFI, SOWAP, SOLS, ect) in the board or even main deck. Every card in this deck generates too much advantage and there isn't much of anything you opp. can do. Now can you build hateraide for this deck? Sure, but there isn't really 1 way to hate this thing. They gain too much life, draw too many cards, have 11 counter spells and play just as many dudes as you do.

Edit: Mistep was banned because it makes it almost impossible for zoo to win. t1: Fetch get a shock land (17 now) play nacatle, gets mistep'd and now you're down 2 cards and another life.

Hug The Goat! Hug the Goat! Hug the Goat!
Prev 1 39 40 41 42 43 665 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 12m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 300
SortOf 163
Rex 35
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 2104
Calm 2071
Rain 1658
Hyuk 728
BeSt 708
Horang2 529
Stork 375
Soulkey 339
Soma 278
Zeus 188
[ Show more ]
Mini 178
Last 147
Killer 101
Backho 99
Shinee 90
Sharp 90
Hyun 75
hero 65
Shuttle 64
ggaemo 64
Mong 55
Bale 42
Mind 41
ToSsGirL 38
soO 37
Barracks 22
ajuk12(nOOB) 20
910 17
Snow 17
Free 13
Noble 12
GoRush 12
Movie 11
Dota 2
XcaliburYe174
NeuroSwarm112
Counter-Strike
allub182
Other Games
gofns7255
summit1g5294
Liquid`RaSZi1034
ceh9578
JimRising 417
Happy278
crisheroes274
XaKoH 177
Sick157
Mew2King115
ToD59
Hui .41
B2W.Neo7
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick877
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 26
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 6
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1366
• Stunt595
• HappyZerGling120
Upcoming Events
RongYI Cup
12m
ByuN vs TriGGeR
herO vs Rogue
RotterdaM300
Rex35
OSC
12m
herO vs Clem
Cure vs TBD
Solar vs TBD
Classic vs TBD
RongYI Cup
1d
Clem vs ShoWTimE
Zoun vs Bunny
Big Brain Bouts
1d 6h
Serral vs TBD
RongYI Cup
2 days
SHIN vs Creator
Classic vs Percival
OSC
2 days
BSL 21
2 days
RongYI Cup
3 days
Maru vs Cyan
Solar vs Krystianer
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
BSL 21
3 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
OSC
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-20
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Rongyi Cup S3
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.