EPTGoyf isn't anywhere near as bad in Modern. Still I would need to dig for 3 more.
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
Goyf isn't anywhere near as bad in Modern. Still I would need to dig for 3 more. | ||
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Nub4ever
Canada1981 Posts
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Cixah
United States11285 Posts
Edit: Goyf is ~70 apiece. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On August 12 2011 13:44 Cixah wrote: How are you playing dredge with out Dread Return? Edit: Goyf is ~70 apiece. Dread's in Time Spiral... Edit: I apparently can't read, I didn't think they would ban Dread after banning Grave-troll...since their entire reasoning for banning GT was because of Dredge. | ||
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Orpheos
United States1663 Posts
as we know from SC1, if you can balance seemingly imbalanced units, it makes for an exciting game. and with the large cardpool available in modern, i think some of those problems can be solved. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On August 12 2011 23:06 Orpheos wrote: im surprised at some of the bannings. I honeslty liked a wizards that was gunshy about banning cards. I agree with stoneforge, hypergen, glimpse, and dread return. but the others seem abit premature. I would rather them let the players figure out if it is really degenerate first. as we know from SC1, if you can balance seemingly imbalanced units, it makes for an exciting game. and with the large cardpool available in modern, i think some of those problems can be solved. Umm all of the cards banned are pretty self-evidently broken... The ban I don't see why is Misstep. | ||
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Orpheos
United States1663 Posts
i feel like the past extended season had a healthy mix of scapeshift, fae, jund + tier2 decks. again I may be wrong about this, but i dont think it is an 100% sure thing that they should ban bitterblossom, valakut, visions and jace. they shouldve let the metagame equilibrate abit before pulling the trigger on those things, which is what i think they wouldve done if the stoneforge fiasco werent on everybodies minds right now. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
Bitterblossom you realize some decks just can't beat that card if it comes down on turn 2 right? Turn 1 Thoughtseize, turn 2 BB and you're just about counting on top decks against any player who knows the match up...which would be fine if Fae didn't have access to...VC...and more counters... Valakut...you should know why post-board some decks just really can't beat it if the player knows what they're doing. | ||
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Jaksiel
United States4130 Posts
As a longtime Dredge fan, I'm going to try my damnedest to make it work somehow, no matter how unlikely it is. It seems like Living End will be the most likely combo deck, though. | ||
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Orpheos
United States1663 Posts
On August 13 2011 01:39 Judicator wrote: Jace was fine how? Either you played Jace or you played for Jace (aka the turn 4 decide your fate). The game was warped to that turn 4 play. Bitterblossom you realize some decks just can't beat that card if it comes down on turn 2 right? Turn 1 Thoughtseize, turn 2 BB and you're just about counting on top decks against any player who knows the match up...which would be fine if Fae didn't have access to...VC...and more counters... Valakut...you should know why post-board some decks just really can't beat it if the player knows what they're doing. jace was fine in shards-zen. and again im not saying these arent really good and potentially degenerate. but i dont think they are 100% must bans until proven. modern has a much larger card pool than when these things dominated. let players try to figure it out as a challenge. if they do you get a really high powered dynamic and fun format. if they dont, then you can ban stuff. this has always been wizard's ban strategy. the only reason why i dont think they have taken that route is that stoneforge is on everyones mind. i think you really are just too scared of past experiences with these cards. it might happen, it might not. but until then why not have a period of time where you can let the game's best minds try to experiment. its eternal, ban it later if needed, | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
It's not too scared it's the fact that I was a EXT player before the change and I am aware of what these cards do. Think you are underestimating what Jace does and how many games it ends in any format it's played in just by untapping with it. Keep in mind that Jund was more or less dead last Extended season, it was good but it wasn't going to win anything. | ||
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Ixirawr
United States86 Posts
Back when I used to play it was: -Vintage -Legacy -Extended -Standard -Block +Various limited formats. Do these still exist? Where does Modern fit in? | ||
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taLbuk
Madagascar1879 Posts
On August 13 2011 09:17 Ixirawr wrote: So... What the hell is this "modern" format? Back when I used to play it was: -Vintage -Legacy -Extended -Standard -Block +Various limited formats. Do these still exist? Where does Modern fit in? it replaces extended because extended is a horrible format in 90% of players eyes | ||
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aphorism
United States226 Posts
On August 13 2011 09:17 Ixirawr wrote: So... What the hell is this "modern" format? Back when I used to play it was: -Vintage -Legacy -Extended -Standard -Block +Various limited formats. Do these still exist? Where does Modern fit in? All of those still exist. Modern is a more accessible non-rotating format, it basically uses cards from sets with the new card frame, minus a banned list of things like top, jitte, skullclamp, etc. You can read all about it here. | ||
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Lemonayd
United States745 Posts
I'll be attending pro tour philly ( not competing ) keeping an eye out for whats hot. | ||
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Cixah
United States11285 Posts
There is also the possibility to play 12 post. 4 Cloudpost, 4 Vesuva, and 4 of the new locus land from scars or besiged. Add green or blue and play lots of crazy shit with near limitless mana (hello tooth and nail entwined turn 4/5). There is also the possiblity of playing some other really scary combo decks. Hell Pyromancer's Ascension is gunna be scary just because the deck has so much with 8 years worth of magic. Manamorphoes? Oh god. As for the Jace discussion. Jace was always too good. There was never a situation where jace didn't hit the board and your opp. game plan changed from kill you to, oh god if that activates again I'm so outta this game. Also as for extended, Last season was god awful. You played Shift or you played something that tried to beat it. I remember devoting something like 11? sideboard slots when I won my PTQ for Nagoya just to beat the deck. Now I never needed them all because Jace + Stoneforge + Vendillion Clique was just freaking OP. There wasn't beating that deck, there was praying that they got land flooded. | ||
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Jaksiel
United States4130 Posts
On August 13 2011 18:18 Cixah wrote: I'm playing in Philly. TL Shirt day 1, team shirt if I day 2. I play alot at 3rd coast cards in Houston if any of you live near there. As for what I'm playing its as toss up. Zoo is prolly the big boogy man in the room at this point, and with the PT only 2 weeks away there isn't alot of time to play much of anything else. I'll just be wearing generic clothing (you would think I would have a DraftMagic.com T-shirt, but I don't), but if I see a guy in a TL shirt I'll be sure to go say hi. I can't see me playing Zoo. I'm probably going to try to find some sort of combo deck (Living End most likely), or maybe something like Doran. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On August 13 2011 18:18 Cixah wrote: I'm playing in Philly. TL Shirt day 1, team shirt if I day 2. I play alot at 3rd coast cards in Houston if any of you live near there. As for what I'm playing its as toss up. Zoo is prolly the big boogy man in the room at this point, and with the PT only 2 weeks away there isn't alot of time to play much of anything else. There is also the possibility to play 12 post. 4 Cloudpost, 4 Vesuva, and 4 of the new locus land from scars or besiged. Add green or blue and play lots of crazy shit with near limitless mana (hello tooth and nail entwined turn 4/5). There is also the possiblity of playing some other really scary combo decks. Hell Pyromancer's Ascension is gunna be scary just because the deck has so much with 8 years worth of magic. Manamorphoes? Oh god. As for the Jace discussion. Jace was always too good. There was never a situation where jace didn't hit the board and your opp. game plan changed from kill you to, oh god if that activates again I'm so outta this game. Also as for extended, Last season was god awful. You played Shift or you played something that tried to beat it. I remember devoting something like 11? sideboard slots when I won my PTQ for Nagoya just to beat the deck. Now I never needed them all because Jace + Stoneforge + Vendillion Clique was just freaking OP. There wasn't beating that deck, there was praying that they got land flooded. Oh hey, 3rd Coast. I've been to Asgard's and another place called Bo's, I was looking for a new place to try, are there a decent number of people there? Seems like they have a draft tonight, so I'll probably head over, it is a bit far though, I'm from Sugar Land. As for Modern format, I really don't care because I'm more of a recent addition to the game...I don't own any of the cards that'd be good in Modern, nor do I have the income to spend $200 buying them, but from what I'm seeing, it looks like quite a decent format, though I am surprised at the Bitterblossom ban. Faeries was good, but were they that OP? A deck I'd be interested in seeing, though, would be a Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas deck since you have access to the Esper (including stuff like Master of Etherium and Etherium Sculptor) and Mirrodin (read: everything) artifacts on top of all the Scars stuff. From what I understand, Tezzerator was a deck and I think big daddy Tezzeret has a good chance in the new format. Just something to think about besides the obvious Zoo decks. | ||
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Cixah
United States11285 Posts
On August 13 2011 23:42 deth2munkies wrote: Oh hey, 3rd Coast. I've been to Asgard's and another place called Bo's, I was looking for a new place to try, are there a decent number of people there? Seems like they have a draft tonight, so I'll probably head over, it is a bit far though, I'm from Sugar Land. As for Modern format, I really don't care because I'm more of a recent addition to the game...I don't own any of the cards that'd be good in Modern, nor do I have the income to spend $200 buying them, but from what I'm seeing, it looks like quite a decent format, though I am surprised at the Bitterblossom ban. Faeries was good, but were they that OP? A deck I'd be interested in seeing, though, would be a Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas deck since you have access to the Esper (including stuff like Master of Etherium and Etherium Sculptor) and Mirrodin (read: everything) artifacts on top of all the Scars stuff. From what I understand, Tezzerator was a deck and I think big daddy Tezzeret has a good chance in the new format. Just something to think about besides the obvious Zoo decks. I know quite alot of people from Asgard's. Haibing (one of the members of the nats team) plays there alot, along with Houston's Level 2 Judge Hibbs. As for 3rd coast, Draft night is usually pretty big, assuming there are no out lying PTQs or what have you. Usually 2 pods of 12 or 13 happen on Saturdays, with Fridays constructed being free we also get usually no less than 40 people. The only crappy thing about free FNM's is the fact that you only get 3-4 people who bring serious competitive decks. And now to the fun part about discussing bans. The reason why I'm happy they have done this is that there is no meta going into the PT. None of the decks that would normally dominate the "old extended" format exsist any more which leads to new decks and things that aren't completely stale from happening at a pro tour. Had bitterblossom not been banned 90% of the players going would have build the deck. Its still playable, but no when its so obvious that they want the decks to be aggressive because of the bans. I would most likely have played it myself. Most of the bans at this point weren't about "Was this OP" but more of, "We have a new eternal format, Lets make these deck in this format something new." Now that doesn't mean people aren't going to just take old T1.5 decks and just remaster them with all new cards. Teachings Control didn't really get hurt at all, and everyone and their mother loves to play Teferi. White Weenie has always been really strong in extended, the only issue it had was that there were sooooo many control decks and its Fae matchup was pretty much 9-1 preboard for fae and then like 9.5-.5 afterward. With that gone it could very easily be a good call just because if you play against aggro all day you'll top 8 for sure. I'm off to play in game day now, mostly because I like free stuff. | ||
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Cixah
United States11285 Posts
On August 13 2011 00:46 Orpheos wrote: jace was fine for a long time. its only better in vintage because there is so much less attacking. i feel like the past extended season had a healthy mix of scapeshift, fae, jund + tier2 decks. again I may be wrong about this, but i dont think it is an 100% sure thing that they should ban bitterblossom, valakut, visions and jace. they shouldve let the metagame equilibrate abit before pulling the trigger on those things, which is what i think they wouldve done if the stoneforge fiasco werent on everybodies minds right now. The reason Mistep, Jace, Stoneforge, and ancestral were all banned is because the deck they all build together was too strong. Some list like this would be pretty much the only thing you saw in top 8 had it not happened. Stoneforge x 4 Vendillion Clique x 3 Sun Titan x 2 Kitchen Finks x 4 Jace TMS x 3 Cryptic Command x 4 Spell Pierce/Ancestral Visions x 3 Mana Leak x 4 Batterskull x 2 Sword of Feast and Famine x 2 Dismember x 2 Path to Exile x 2 25 lands 4 Tech Edge 4 Hallowed Fountain 4 Seachrome Coast 4 Celestial Colonade 4 Glacial Fortress 2 Plains 3 Island Some lists would prolly even play one of each different sword (SOFI, SOWAP, SOLS, ect) in the board or even main deck. Every card in this deck generates too much advantage and there isn't much of anything you opp. can do. Now can you build hateraide for this deck? Sure, but there isn't really 1 way to hate this thing. They gain too much life, draw too many cards, have 11 counter spells and play just as many dudes as you do. Edit: Mistep was banned because it makes it almost impossible for zoo to win. t1: Fetch get a shock land (17 now) play nacatle, gets mistep'd and now you're down 2 cards and another life. | ||
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