EPTMagic: The Gathering - Page 322
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Lyter
United Kingdom2145 Posts
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On March 01 2013 01:34 Lyter wrote: Blue/black is generally considered the guild you would rather avoid at a draft table soooo, your estimation is a bit off to say the least :p I actually had my first placing at an FNM with Dimir, although that could be a mix of any of the usual draft factors along with increasing experience. And the match I lost (to Boros) was a massively disgusting blowout. I think Dimir is capable of being strong if you don't have to fight too much for decent cards, since there's some cute common and uncommon cards, as long as the games are a little slower. In particular, if people fought over Gruul and Boros, Dimir is quite capable of doing some damage, as things will be slowed down to where you can actually compete. That said, it's probably also not going to be an "I win" deck a lot of times, which is both a good and bad thing. It's the least likely to be forced, which means you can frequently get some solid picks later in the pack, but it's definitely got some speed issues in limited. | ||
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MaestroSC
United States2073 Posts
On March 01 2013 01:34 Lyter wrote: Blue/black is generally considered the guild you would rather avoid at a draft table soooo, your estimation is a bit off to say the least :p just saying what ive lost to and have played against people playing blue/back in every single one of the matches i played in the drafts last night which was about 6 matches, of which every single one was blue/black when every1 is only playing with 40 cards, idk was pretty strong. Literally lost to a guy who got me to discard 15 cards from my library in a row, when i had him down to 3 hp and i had 5 creatures on the board to his Zero, all of which were hitting for 3+ shadowslice and hands of binding both on an unblockable.. was not fun trying to go Boros was a joke. As i never saw a decent boros card available, but i also never played against any of the boros cards | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On March 01 2013 01:40 MaestroSC wrote: just saying what ive lost to and have played against people playing blue/back in every single one of the matches i played in the drafts last night which was about 6 matches, of which every single one was blue/black when every1 is only playing with 40 cards, idk was pretty strong. Literally lost to a guy who got me to discard 15 cards from my library in a row, when i had him down to 3 hp and i had 5 creatures on the board to his Zero, all of which were hitting for 3+ shadowslice and hands of binding both on an unblockable.. was not fun My Pack 1 Pick 3 Lord of the Void literally saved me from what should have been an untenable position to a win to put me in the prize pool. Underrated colors brings a strength all it's own, from what I can tell. If you're getting staples of a guild, like Paranoid Delusions, as deep as Pick 8-9 (not uncommon), you're in a strong spot. It lets you prioritize stuff like cheap evasive creatures at the beginning of the draft, and get your Ciphers late, with little to no contest. Availability in a draft format shouldn't be overlooked as a crucial factor to success. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
If you went boros and never saw a decent boros card, then someone else was taking them and you likely passed good cards in other colors. I don't see how Paranoid Delusions can be considered a "staple" of dimir. You want your mill effects to come from other sources for the most part. Spending a card on doing nothing other than milling the opponent is pretty weak most of the time. You can do that against slow decks after sideboard, but it's usually not a mainboard card if you can avoid it. | ||
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MaestroSC
United States2073 Posts
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MaestroSC
United States2073 Posts
On March 01 2013 01:52 spinesheath wrote: Never choose a guild before you see the actual cards. Also don't blindly stick to a guild just because you got 1 good card for it. If you went boros and never saw a decent boros card, then someone else was taking them and you likely passed good cards in other colors. thats not what im saying happened. Like if i went boros, because one of the drafts I got an Aurelia the War Leader, but from pick 4 on I never saw another boros card, so I ended up switching then. I am not pre-determining. I just only ever saw Simic cards available it felt like | ||
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
On March 01 2013 01:32 spinesheath wrote: I don't think that's the case at all. What I find is that bombs (and mana screw and flooding) decide more games than it was the case in RtR. Removal seems very strong (lots of enchantments, cypher, unbockable creatures, bloodrush...). Forcing Dimir won't do you any good, it can be quite awful if you don't get enough good cards. Removal and bombs, to me that's what the format seems to be about. It's actually one of the least bomb-dependent formats ever. There are very few real bombs in the set, really. Obzedat and maybe a couple of other mythics come to mind as cards that are fairly unbeatable. The best rare is probably Firemane Avenger and that's just a 4-mana 3/3. The aggression of the format keeps expensive cards honest, and most wins or losses come down to the synergy of your deck and its ability to do what it wants to do consistently. Simic and dimir have a lot of draws where its cards are working against each other, which is the main reason why they're considered the weaker guilds, but every guild in this format has a high variability in its best and worst draws. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On March 01 2013 01:56 MaestroSC wrote: thats not what im saying happened. Like if i went boros, because one of the drafts I got an Aurelia the War Leader, but from pick 4 on I never saw another boros card, so I ended up switching then. I am not pre-determining. I just only ever saw Simic cards available it felt like I personally feel like Simic is actually worse than Dimir, it loses (vital) picks to both Dimir and Gruul, it can't compete with the Aggro decks on speed and power, unless you manage to get good Evolve lines. It gets less control than Orzhov and Dimir, which get better removal than Rapid Hybridization. (So do Gruul and Boros, really.) Basically, it plays like a poorly thought out combo deck, unless you just get absurdly lucky. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On March 01 2013 02:25 Risen wrote: Results oriented thinking is the best kind... But, that at least partially requires having an actual draft pool in front of you. I don't think it's wrong to theorycraft it somewhat, I just think it can bring about misleading conclusions if you don't carry the thought processes far enough. Just the fact that, in a vacuum, Dimir looks weak, makes it stronger, because it decreases competition. Drafting is too dynamic to theorycraft entirely, but there's nothing wrong with trying to pick out what cards you'd want to be looking for to determine what direction you start moving. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On March 01 2013 00:35 Risen wrote: I definitely disagree sly. Double red is playable in gruul or boros. Grisly in dimir or orzhov. Both are more powerful than ransom. Ransom is a good card on curve, horrible top deck late game. Giving your opponent the decision to discard two worthless lands, or even their two worst cards isn't that good. The card draw you get from it IS good, though. It's a solid playable in dimir, I wouldn't splash it, I wouldn't take it over homing lightning or spectacle. I would have thought the same thing when I made the pick. Like I said, I took the rare for the experience of playing with it. But in practice, the punisher part of the card is very very very strong. Soul's Ransom isn't going to really save you if you're desperately behind on the board, but from my limited (zing) experience with it, I thought it was excellent. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On March 01 2013 03:19 Judicator wrote: I don't think the punisher part is relevant if it comes at the time worst for you. It plays like a win-more card. If you have nothing in board and facing lethal, there's a lot of first picks that won't save you on a top deck. But this card will dig you out from an early disadvantage, it will lock the game for you when you play it from an advantage. It is really back breaking on curve. It's not the finest card in the set and I'm still not sure that I would take it over Spectacle if it happens again. But yeah, it's very good. | ||
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
On March 01 2013 03:27 slyboogie wrote: If you have nothing in board and facing lethal, there's a lot of first picks that won't save you on a top deck. But this card will dig you out from an early disadvantage, it will lock the game for you when you play it from an advantage. It is really back breaking on curve. It's not the finest card in the set and I'm still not sure that I would take it over Spectacle if it happens again. But yeah, it's very good. I've only played with the card once but it doesn't seem great. Would definitely take Spectacle over it p1p1, but as the deck develops, I could definitely see Ransom being better (like if you have sacrifice outlets or a solid early game already). The problem is you can very rarely play it on turn 4, because dimir lacks early answers, and they're very likely to just destroy it immediately and smash you. The end result is that it's usually just a Mindculling with suspend, a turn 7-8 play where you might get the creature for one turn before they take it back and they're usually just discarding lands. Don't get me wrong, a draw 2-discard 2 is still very good, but I wouldn't go taking it over cards that impact the board more easily. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
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Brockster
Germany82 Posts
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On March 01 2013 03:59 Judicator wrote: You can't sack the creature in response to the Soul Ransom trigger can you? No, that's the cost. Can't respond because you never gain priority. You have to sac the creature while you have priority. Basically, anticipate that all they are anxious to pitch. Edit: nope, I'm wrong. Discard then colon, so yes trigger on the stack, you sac? That's legal right? | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On March 01 2013 04:05 Brockster wrote: its an awesome top deck, because in most situations ppl wont hold 2 cards in hand to discard. So it is great in early and in late. I frequently hold lands once I've developed mana, to say nothing of instant and sorcery. Holding lands is a good way to make them wonder what you have ready, I've pulled an extra turn or two out of people not swinging with everything that way before, because they were paranoid. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On March 01 2013 04:20 slyboogie wrote: No, that's the cost. Can't respond because you never gain priority. You have to sac the creature while you have priority. Basically, anticipate that all they are anxious to pitch. Edit: nope, I'm wrong. Discard then colon, so yes trigger on the stack, you sac? That's legal right? Yeah, the sack is part of the effect, not the cost so you can sack. Just didn't check the text at all. | ||
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