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On December 17 2012 20:19 bobbob wrote:
What is the (now single) Smiter in there for? Board in vs decks playing Liliana?
I don't think you want to cut Liliana entirely, you might consider playing a mix of Thoughtsieze and Inquisition, though.
You could consider playing some o-rings out of the board instead of Pulse if S+T becomes a worse matchup.
Smiter is for the Hymn + Liliana decks, because the recent surge of BUG lists are playing a mixture of permission, hand disruption, and planeswalkers to win games (or cascading into Ancestral Recall, which I can't do anything about), and Smiter makes a good thing to deal with all 3 of those things. And there should be two Smiters in the SB, not one. I've thought about Thoughtsieze, just not sure where I can fit it in, maybe the sideboard.
O-ring I want to avoid, because of Abrupt Decay. Pulse can turn into something else, but for the moment I'm looking at Pulse as a general "kill this annoying thing and all copies of it" spell, but can see Pulse turning into Vindicate for the "Kill X annoying thing" option instead.
On December 18 2012 12:29 slyboogie wrote:
Also, not sure if you need Top and Sylvan Library. You're doing a lot with your mana to begin with and Top isn't going to be anything special in Junk colors. Library is redundant with Dark Confidant, though there's a synergy there. I dunno, I like Goyf over Top and maybe a miser Vindicate. Dunno, I never play Legacy without Blue.
The amount of times I've seen Bob die and non-blue decks lose to the lack of card advantage or card drawing is the reason for the Library. Deathrite Shaman is nice because it can mitigate some of the life loss, and Top is there for the times when I don't draw Library and instead get a Bob to stick around for more than a turn. It also helps if someone tries to use JTMS to fate seal me, where I can respond to the ability to decide what he is going to see, then change the top 3 around at the EOT.
And Top has been surprisingly useful at times too, because I can use it as a "Getcha" card by floating a removal card like S2P or Abrupt Decay around the top 3, and when I need to draw it, draw it on queue and kill something that is going to kill me. It's a bit of a fringe case, but I find that with the non-blue Legacy decks you really need to eek out whatever advantage you can get.
Also, for those curious: this list also tried running 4x Noble Hierarch and being light on removal spells, but I kept losing too many matches to the other fair decks.
I've tried running other useful/good equipments in the list, mainly the Mirrodin "Sword of X and Y" variants, but none of them have been as game-breaking as Batterskull and Jitte. It's getting to the point where I think I want to go 2-2 or 1-3 on the Batterskull-Jitte package, just so that I can get the full use out of all my Stoneforge's. The other option is to go to 3 Stoneforge and play a miser's copy of some other creature, or a 4th Bob.
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On December 18 2012 12:45 Kinie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 20:19 bobbob wrote:
What is the (now single) Smiter in there for? Board in vs decks playing Liliana?
I don't think you want to cut Liliana entirely, you might consider playing a mix of Thoughtsieze and Inquisition, though.
You could consider playing some o-rings out of the board instead of Pulse if S+T becomes a worse matchup. Smiter is for the Hymn + Liliana decks, because the recent surge of BUG lists are playing a mixture of permission, hand disruption, and planeswalkers to win games (or cascading into Ancestral Recall, which I can't do anything about), and Smiter makes a good thing to deal with all 3 of those things. And there should be two Smiters in the SB, not one. I've thought about Thoughtsieze, just not sure where I can fit it in, maybe the sideboard. O-ring I want to avoid, because of Abrupt Decay. Pulse can turn into something else, but for the moment I'm looking at Pulse as a general "kill this annoying thing and all copies of it" spell, but can see Pulse turning into Vindicate for the "Kill X annoying thing" option instead. Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 12:29 slyboogie wrote:
Also, not sure if you need Top and Sylvan Library. You're doing a lot with your mana to begin with and Top isn't going to be anything special in Junk colors. Library is redundant with Dark Confidant, though there's a synergy there. I dunno, I like Goyf over Top and maybe a miser Vindicate. Dunno, I never play Legacy without Blue. The amount of times I've seen Bob die and non-blue decks lose to the lack of card advantage or card drawing is the reason for the Library. Deathrite Shaman is nice because it can mitigate some of the life loss, and Top is there for the times when I don't draw Library and instead get a Bob to stick around for more than a turn. It also helps if someone tries to use JTMS to fate seal me, where I can respond to the ability to decide what he is going to see, then change the top 3 around at the EOT. And Top has been surprisingly useful at times too, because I can use it as a "Getcha" card by floating a removal card like S2P or Abrupt Decay around the top 3, and when I need to draw it, draw it on queue and kill something that is going to kill me. It's a bit of a fringe case, but I find that with the non-blue Legacy decks you really need to eek out whatever advantage you can get. Also, for those curious: this list also tried running 4x Noble Hierarch and being light on removal spells, but I kept losing too many matches to the other fair decks. I've tried running other useful/good equipments in the list, mainly the Mirrodin "Sword of X and Y" variants, but none of them have been as game-breaking as Batterskull and Jitte. It's getting to the point where I think I want to go 2-2 or 1-3 on the Batterskull-Jitte package, just so that I can get the full use out of all my Stoneforge's. The other option is to go to 3 Stoneforge and play a miser's copy of some other creature, or a 4th Bob.
Smiter over Wilt-Leaf Liege? Close call I suppose, especially for decks only running Shaman, Mystic, and Bob. Though, giving Shaman and Mystic +1 is imho, better than being uncounterable. (Though it is 4 mana instead of 3 if you happen to not get it onto the battlefield for free)
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There's benefits to both Smiter and the Wilt-Leaf Liege. Smiter's main thing is it's uncounterable, and in a format of Force of Wills and Counterspells, that can be a pretty big deal. But it is within range of the Abrupt Decay, which is quickly becoming the new darling of Legacy.
Wilt-Leaf Liege is more expensive (4 vs. 3) and a bit more color restrictive (requiring a combination of 3 GW mana), and is counterable. In return though, it pumps my spirit tokens from Lingering Souls, Deathrite Shaman, and Stoneforge Mystic. And in the other creature decks that run similar cards, that extra +1/+1 can mean the difference between a stalled board and me keeping up the pressure with attacking. Plus, it avoids Abrupt Decay. It certainly might be worth considering, but I think it will depend more-so on how the overall Legacy metagame shifts. If people continue moving to BUG Control then Smiter and Wilt-Leaf Sage will get better (as the BUG Control lists tend to run counterspells and hand disruption). But if they shift into more of a BUG Agent or BUG Walkers deck (look at Gerry T's list or BBD's list from a few weeks ago on SCG) then those cards are not as good and should turn into something else.
It just might be that the Smiter is the "flex card" for the sideboard, where I can swap in other good cards depending upon the Legacy scene I am going to. If I'm expecting a scene full of combo and burn, they turn into Leyline of Sanctity's or Rule of Laws or RIPs. If I'm expecting a ton of creature decks, maybe they turn into Knight of the Reliquary or Path to Exile.
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ive tried looking online, but could anyone point me in the dirrection of a pretty inexpensive planeswalker deck, that is pretty good (dont plan to win tournaments just play with friends) that i can get started with on MTGO, and then build on the deck from there. i dont have alot of money, maybe 20$ + my trade tickets to try to get what i can. has to be a pretty effective for the cost deck though lol cause most my friends spend alot of money on what ever is cool >.>
i always thought blue or green decks were cooler in case that helps.
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On December 19 2012 05:50 Sid(TB) wrote:
ive tried looking online, but could anyone point me in the dirrection of a pretty inexpensive planeswalker deck, that is pretty good (dont plan to win tournaments just play with friends) that i can get started with on MTGO, and then build on the deck from there. i dont have alot of money, maybe 20$ + my trade tickets to try to get what i can. has to be a pretty effective for the cost deck though lol cause most my friends spend alot of money on what ever is cool >.>
i always thought blue or green decks were cooler in case that helps.
I'm not really sure what you mean by a planeswalker deck, a deck focused around planeswalker type cards? That would probably be pretty difficult to do for $20 considering planeswalkers tend to be relatively expensive individually. I assume your friends play standard. I don't have much experience w/ standard, but I think a deck like this would be a decent starting point.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=51600
Take out the white cards and snapcaster and add in maybe some delver of secrets, talrand, sky summoner, another runechanter's pike or 2 and your pick of blue instant or sorceries (inspiration, rewind, more think twice, more counterspells, talrand's invocation, amass the components). Instants in general are way more valuable than sorceries in this type of deck, allowing you to choose whether to counter a spell or do something else with your mana on your opponent's turn. This deck obviously loses some of it's strength and consistency without the white cards, but it's most expensive card becomes about $1.50 and even then I think you may be slightly over the $20 limit. It would also be a relatively difficult deck to play (I'm assuming you are relatively new to magic), requiring you to evaluate what your opponents game plan is and manage your resources to control it. I think on an effectiveness per $ scale though it would be strong and definitely help you get better at magic in the process.
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On December 19 2012 06:57 el_dawg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 05:50 Sid(TB) wrote:
ive tried looking online, but could anyone point me in the dirrection of a pretty inexpensive planeswalker deck, that is pretty good (dont plan to win tournaments just play with friends) that i can get started with on MTGO, and then build on the deck from there. i dont have alot of money, maybe 20$ + my trade tickets to try to get what i can. has to be a pretty effective for the cost deck though lol cause most my friends spend alot of money on what ever is cool >.>
i always thought blue or green decks were cooler in case that helps. I'm not really sure what you mean by a planeswalker deck, a deck focused around planeswalker type cards? That would probably be pretty difficult to do for $20 considering planeswalkers tend to be relatively expensive individually. I assume your friends play standard. I don't have much experience w/ standard, but I think a deck like this would be a decent starting point. http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=51600Take out the white cards and snapcaster and add in maybe some delver of secrets, talrand, sky summoner, another runechanter's pike or 2 and your pick of blue instant or sorceries (inspiration, rewind, more think twice, more counterspells, talrand's invocation, amass the components). Instants in general are way more valuable than sorceries in this type of deck, allowing you to choose whether to counter a spell or do something else with your mana on your opponent's turn. This deck obviously loses some of it's strength and consistency without the white cards, but it's most expensive card becomes about $1.50 and even then I think you may be slightly over the $20 limit. It would also be a relatively difficult deck to play (I'm assuming you are relatively new to magic), requiring you to evaluate what your opponents game plan is and manage your resources to control it. I think on an effectiveness per $ scale though it would be strong and definitely help you get better at magic in the process.
U/W flash is nothing without Sphinx's Revelation and that's at least $20 a pop alone. You cannot build a competitive deck for $20 and you can't build a planeswalker deck at all for that price given the cheapest planeswalker is around $4-$5 anyway.
If you really want to make a deck for cheap, consider going monocolored so you can skimp on the manabase and use midrange rares. You're going over $20 regardless, but it'll be cheap.
How cheap depends on whether you want to play Standard or just Legacy. You can build a really good mono green elf deck for cheap, though you'll have to skip out on a few of the combo-win pieces and lands like Gaea's Cradle.
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On December 18 2012 12:45 Kinie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 12:29 slyboogie wrote:
Also, not sure if you need Top and Sylvan Library. You're doing a lot with your mana to begin with and Top isn't going to be anything special in Junk colors. Library is redundant with Dark Confidant, though there's a synergy there. I dunno, I like Goyf over Top and maybe a miser Vindicate. Dunno, I never play Legacy without Blue. The amount of times I've seen Bob die and non-blue decks lose to the lack of card advantage or card drawing is the reason for the Library. Deathrite Shaman is nice because it can mitigate some of the life loss, and Top is there for the times when I don't draw Library and instead get a Bob to stick around for more than a turn. It also helps if someone tries to use JTMS to fate seal me, where I can respond to the ability to decide what he is going to see, then change the top 3 around at the EOT. And Top has been surprisingly useful at times too, because I can use it as a "Getcha" card by floating a removal card like S2P or Abrupt Decay around the top 3, and when I need to draw it, draw it on queue and kill something that is going to kill me. It's a bit of a fringe case, but I find that with the non-blue Legacy decks you really need to eek out whatever advantage you can get. Also, for those curious: this list also tried running 4x Noble Hierarch and being light on removal spells, but I kept losing too many matches to the other fair decks. I've tried running other useful/good equipments in the list, mainly the Mirrodin "Sword of X and Y" variants, but none of them have been as game-breaking as Batterskull and Jitte. It's getting to the point where I think I want to go 2-2 or 1-3 on the Batterskull-Jitte package, just so that I can get the full use out of all my Stoneforge's. The other option is to go to 3 Stoneforge and play a miser's copy of some other creature, or a 4th Bob.
It sounds like you're playing Top like a weirdo version of Brainstorm, in which case, wouldn't you enjoy U/W StoneBlade a bit more? Or Esper StoneBlade.
I think Sword of Light and Shadow is workable as a singleton, in terms of sheer power, it's not really in the "Feast and Famine" and "Ice and Fire" level but it gives good color protection and it's effects are reasonably valuable and grindy. Still, any equipment is a wildly distant third to Batterskull and the "first Planeswalker."
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On December 19 2012 14:09 slyboogie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 12:45 Kinie wrote:On December 18 2012 12:29 slyboogie wrote:
Also, not sure if you need Top and Sylvan Library. You're doing a lot with your mana to begin with and Top isn't going to be anything special in Junk colors. Library is redundant with Dark Confidant, though there's a synergy there. I dunno, I like Goyf over Top and maybe a miser Vindicate. Dunno, I never play Legacy without Blue. The amount of times I've seen Bob die and non-blue decks lose to the lack of card advantage or card drawing is the reason for the Library. Deathrite Shaman is nice because it can mitigate some of the life loss, and Top is there for the times when I don't draw Library and instead get a Bob to stick around for more than a turn. It also helps if someone tries to use JTMS to fate seal me, where I can respond to the ability to decide what he is going to see, then change the top 3 around at the EOT. And Top has been surprisingly useful at times too, because I can use it as a "Getcha" card by floating a removal card like S2P or Abrupt Decay around the top 3, and when I need to draw it, draw it on queue and kill something that is going to kill me. It's a bit of a fringe case, but I find that with the non-blue Legacy decks you really need to eek out whatever advantage you can get. Also, for those curious: this list also tried running 4x Noble Hierarch and being light on removal spells, but I kept losing too many matches to the other fair decks. I've tried running other useful/good equipments in the list, mainly the Mirrodin "Sword of X and Y" variants, but none of them have been as game-breaking as Batterskull and Jitte. It's getting to the point where I think I want to go 2-2 or 1-3 on the Batterskull-Jitte package, just so that I can get the full use out of all my Stoneforge's. The other option is to go to 3 Stoneforge and play a miser's copy of some other creature, or a 4th Bob. It sounds like you're playing Top like a weirdo version of Brainstorm, in which case, wouldn't you enjoy U/W StoneBlade a bit more? Or Esper StoneBlade. I think Sword of Light and Shadow is workable as a singleton, in terms of sheer power, it's not really in the "Feast and Famine" and "Ice and Fire" level but it gives good color protection and it's effects are reasonably valuable and grindy. Still, any equipment is a wildly distant third to Batterskull and the "first Planeswalker."
Sounds like he's just using it to control draws...Have you ever drawn an Elspeth or Batterskull off of Bob?
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Batterskull yes. Elspeth no. And, I mean, you only play freaking 1 Batterskull.
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On December 19 2012 15:01 slyboogie wrote:
Batterskull yes. Elspeth no. And, I mean, you only play freaking 1 Batterskull.
it's still the worst feeling in the world when it happens.
Btw never play bob + steelshapers gift in modern.
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On December 19 2012 14:09 slyboogie wrote:
It sounds like you're playing Top like a weirdo version of Brainstorm, in which case, wouldn't you enjoy U/W StoneBlade a bit more? Or Esper StoneBlade.
I think Sword of Light and Shadow is workable as a singleton, in terms of sheer power, it's not really in the "Feast and Famine" and "Ice and Fire" level but it gives good color protection and it's effects are reasonably valuable and grindy. Still, any equipment is a wildly distant third to Batterskull and the "first Planeswalker."
I have played UW Stoneblade and Esper Stoneblade, and I do enjoy playing as those decks. The problem though is I cannot mentally handle playing those decks for a REL tournament. For playtesting, sure, I can do that. But playing Stoneblade with Counterbalance + Top or UW Miracleblade for a prolonged period of time makes my brain hurt.
And yes, I would say I am playing top like a weirdo version of Brainstorm, or maybe as a Ponder without the shuffle effect.
The Sword of Light and Shadow I've tried before, but it just lacks the punch that Batterskull and Jitte have. The Swords I've tried in this list are Light & Shadow, Feast & Famine, and War & Peace. And of the three, only Feast & Famine seemed to be nearing the power level of the skull and Jitte. I've thought about trying out Body & Mind, but that seems bad when some decks actually want you to mill them, or I mill into an Emrakul or Progenetis. That's why I think I want to give a 2nd Batterskull a try; not many people expect a 2nd Skull, and it gives me 4 guaranteed fetches from SFM.
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On December 19 2012 05:50 Sid(TB) wrote:
ive tried looking online, but could anyone point me in the dirrection of a pretty inexpensive planeswalker deck, that is pretty good (dont plan to win tournaments just play with friends) that i can get started with on MTGO, and then build on the deck from there. i dont have alot of money, maybe 20$ + my trade tickets to try to get what i can. has to be a pretty effective for the cost deck though lol cause most my friends spend alot of money on what ever is cool >.>
i always thought blue or green decks were cooler in case that helps.
If you mean the Planeswalker mode in online, you have to purchase the base deck things, because you can't trade the gold border cards, though you should have some of them that came with your account, very limited selection but playable. I'd suggest against them unless your friends only play with them, the card pool is rather limited and there's extra one of a kind rules for some good cards.
I suggest playing standard instead, you can whip up casual decks rather cheaply (I tested very low budget BW tokens in standard and if you cut dual lands the cost it's something like 5-6 tix? Maybe bit more if you add some semi-cheap good stuff).
So depending on wheter you want to play few cheap decks and find what you like and build on that or know what you want and start building on straight away, it's your pick.
Also, go ahead and use your new player even tickets, you have 4 of them which are used under Limited Queues of Tournament section (or was it?), there are New player Phantom Draft or Sealed which you can join, you wont be keeping the cards but you can win current promo card if you beat 2 rounds. It's a good way to get introduced to limited formats.
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So I'm watching Dzyl draft cube and he actually opens this pack:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bw21t.jpg)
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Holy shit lol :D What are the odds.
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On December 20 2012 06:33 Salteador Neo wrote:
Holy shit lol :D What are the odds.
Actually pretty high; WotC is saying it is a collation bug that is currently being investigated, and they will probably be bringing down the queues while they fix the issue.
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For those of you who don't understand from that screenshot (or never drafted a powered cube), the guy can pretty much blindly pick a card and it would be an easy first pick.
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Lotus or Sol Ring, wheel timetwister - boom!
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It's Lotus by far, not even close.
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EPT
