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On October 23 2012 07:37 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 07:29 DEN1ED wrote:On October 23 2012 03:33 Risen wrote:On October 23 2012 02:15 itsben wrote:On October 23 2012 01:56 Risen wrote:
Well that's just sketchy shit from Jackie, but I don't really see a difference between how it would play out in the "old" vs "new" situation. For old vs new example: If you forget to activate you huntmasters effect to gain life and make a wolf token, you probably won't ever get those effects now. In the the old, you would probably tell a judge and probably get its effect and maybe rewind game state if its not too late. I personally don't like the rule because it can lead to very sketchy stuff. Like you can pretend to forget a trigger or claim your opponent never declared the trigger. I see nothing wrong with this. Punishes being bad. +1 from Risen. What if you forget trigger to flip huntmaster back over and then atk for lethal with 4/4 trample? Then I guess your opponent should have caught the trigger. Again, punishing being bad.
No, this is a proper change to the old rules, because under the old rules, both of you would be punished for failure to maintain game state (these warnings add up to game losses in long tournaments).
As for Jackie's situation, it sounds like she deliberately ignored the Stab Wound trigger which is grounds for cheating, especially if the opponent was tracking it and she wasn't. Announcing it is part of the issue, but not the complete issue.
In either case, for anyone curious/paranoid/cuthroat/etc. (jk) enough:+ Show Spoiler +4.4 Triggered Abilities
Players are expected to remember their own triggered abilities; intentionally ignoring one is Cheating.
At Competitive and Professional REL, players are not required to point out the existence of triggered abilities that they do not control, though they may do so within a turn if they wish.
Triggered abilities are considered to be forgotten by their controller once they have taken an action past the point where the triggered ability would be expected to resolve. Triggered abilities that are forgotten are not considered to have gone onto the stack.
This has nothing to do with punishing bad players or bad plays, the old rule did that well enough. This has everything to do with you not worrying about everything on your opponent's side of the board, and being penalized when your opponent forgets their triggers beneficial or not. This new rule does introduce "intent" into the resolution of missed triggers, but honestly it really isn't that difficult.
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On October 23 2012 08:10 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 07:37 Risen wrote:On October 23 2012 07:29 DEN1ED wrote:On October 23 2012 03:33 Risen wrote:On October 23 2012 02:15 itsben wrote:On October 23 2012 01:56 Risen wrote:
Well that's just sketchy shit from Jackie, but I don't really see a difference between how it would play out in the "old" vs "new" situation. For old vs new example: If you forget to activate you huntmasters effect to gain life and make a wolf token, you probably won't ever get those effects now. In the the old, you would probably tell a judge and probably get its effect and maybe rewind game state if its not too late. I personally don't like the rule because it can lead to very sketchy stuff. Like you can pretend to forget a trigger or claim your opponent never declared the trigger. I see nothing wrong with this. Punishes being bad. +1 from Risen. What if you forget trigger to flip huntmaster back over and then atk for lethal with 4/4 trample? Then I guess your opponent should have caught the trigger. Again, punishing being bad. No, this is a proper change to the old rules, because under the old rules, both of you would be punished for failure to maintain game state (these warnings add up to game losses in long tournaments). As for Jackie's situation, it sounds like she deliberately ignored the Stab Wound trigger which is grounds for cheating, especially if the opponent was tracking it and she wasn't. Announcing it is part of the issue, but not the complete issue. In either case, for anyone curious/paranoid/cuthroat/etc. (jk) enough: + Show Spoiler +4.4 Triggered Abilities
Players are expected to remember their own triggered abilities; intentionally ignoring one is Cheating.
At Competitive and Professional REL, players are not required to point out the existence of triggered abilities that they do not control, though they may do so within a turn if they wish.
Triggered abilities are considered to be forgotten by their controller once they have taken an action past the point where the triggered ability would be expected to resolve. Triggered abilities that are forgotten are not considered to have gone onto the stack. This has nothing to do with punishing bad players or bad plays, the old rule did that well enough. This has everything to do with you not worrying about everything on your opponent's side of the board, and being penalized when your opponent forgets their triggers beneficial or not. This new rule does introduce "intent" into the resolution of missed triggers, but honestly it really isn't that difficult.
Well what if she pretended that she didn't notice the stab wound? What happens then? Both players have wrong life totals. Who's fault is it? Also should this rule be implemented in MTGO then? Like can you forget a trigger if you felt like it and see if your opponent calls you out? I just don't like the idea that mandatory effects can be missed because you forgot.
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Looking forward to GP Philly, less about sealed and more about partying >_>
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On October 23 2012 09:04 itsben wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 08:10 Judicator wrote:On October 23 2012 07:37 Risen wrote:On October 23 2012 07:29 DEN1ED wrote:On October 23 2012 03:33 Risen wrote:On October 23 2012 02:15 itsben wrote:On October 23 2012 01:56 Risen wrote:
Well that's just sketchy shit from Jackie, but I don't really see a difference between how it would play out in the "old" vs "new" situation. For old vs new example: If you forget to activate you huntmasters effect to gain life and make a wolf token, you probably won't ever get those effects now. In the the old, you would probably tell a judge and probably get its effect and maybe rewind game state if its not too late. I personally don't like the rule because it can lead to very sketchy stuff. Like you can pretend to forget a trigger or claim your opponent never declared the trigger. I see nothing wrong with this. Punishes being bad. +1 from Risen. What if you forget trigger to flip huntmaster back over and then atk for lethal with 4/4 trample? Then I guess your opponent should have caught the trigger. Again, punishing being bad. No, this is a proper change to the old rules, because under the old rules, both of you would be punished for failure to maintain game state (these warnings add up to game losses in long tournaments). As for Jackie's situation, it sounds like she deliberately ignored the Stab Wound trigger which is grounds for cheating, especially if the opponent was tracking it and she wasn't. Announcing it is part of the issue, but not the complete issue. In either case, for anyone curious/paranoid/cuthroat/etc. (jk) enough: + Show Spoiler +4.4 Triggered Abilities
Players are expected to remember their own triggered abilities; intentionally ignoring one is Cheating.
At Competitive and Professional REL, players are not required to point out the existence of triggered abilities that they do not control, though they may do so within a turn if they wish.
Triggered abilities are considered to be forgotten by their controller once they have taken an action past the point where the triggered ability would be expected to resolve. Triggered abilities that are forgotten are not considered to have gone onto the stack. This has nothing to do with punishing bad players or bad plays, the old rule did that well enough. This has everything to do with you not worrying about everything on your opponent's side of the board, and being penalized when your opponent forgets their triggers beneficial or not. This new rule does introduce "intent" into the resolution of missed triggers, but honestly it really isn't that difficult. Well what if she pretended that she didn't notice the stab wound? What happens then? Both players have wrong life totals. Who's fault is it? Also should this rule be implemented in MTGO then? Like can you forget a trigger if you felt like it and see if your opponent calls you out? I just don't like the idea that mandatory effects can be missed because you forgot.
MTGO is completely different, don't even go down that route. Anyone who spent a game or two knows that it's impossible to miss anything on that program short of misclicks (passing priority).
Yes, you can call out your opponent, if you want a trigger to happen, you can call the judge to backtrack and that will be handled no differently than before.
Your opponent is "punished" in this regards for not calling your triggers, a la Risen's punishing bad players, but does not receive judge-based punishment should the trigger be beneficial to you. The old rule would punish both players for the latter scenario which was utterly retarded because you, as a player, had to remind your opponent of their mandatory triggers, because you would be receiving a game warning for basically failing to remind your opponent of their own mess up. This annoyed players to no end especially when you were losing to a supposedly "worse" player.
The problem with your assumption that she didn't notice the Stab Wound (or more accurately forgot about the trigger) is that her opponent has been tracking it. She's trying to hang him on the fact that since he didn't announce it, she doesn't have to take the damage, but her opponent has in fact been tracking it. That seems really fishy on her part and not the intent of the rule change. Her scenario, as you described it, would mean that she did not announce life changes or attempt to verify life totals across multiple turns, on top of that, the way she defended herself implies that she knew about it despite what her opponent was doing.
IF (and that's a big if) that is the case, then she is just not that good at cheating or lying (or stupid if you want to go down that route)...which works out for her.
Edit: Clarified a few words.
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So what decks is everyone playing in standard now? I really want to play U/W/R control because I just love playing control and I already invested in Jace, but I've been losing to a lot of the mid range decks and I want to try something different. I've been trying U/W/R mid range with geist/thundermaw hellkite/resto angel and I feel like it's a better deck. Also the 4 color reanimator deck seems really sweet, unburial rights on angel of serenity is just insane... And thragtusk has got to be the most annoying card in standard right now to play against.. dungeon geists seems to be the best solution to it right now if your playing blue IMO. If your playing aggro forget about it..
Also, anyone see the epic experiment deck Travis Woo wrote on article on recently? Seems like it'd be a blast to play, and he claims it can be pretty competitive.. I feel like there's a lot of other brews out there yet to be discovered..
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Have not touched Standard since Cincy. My interaction with the cards have been returning them to their original owners.
Not sure how UWR losses to mid range strategies so going to have to clarify on that. Every deck has to be able to beat Thragtusk so not sure.
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I'm playing black base grixis control. Time and testing has shown me that I need to make it blue base, b/c even with some nice possibilities vs aggro, control is having a damn field day with me.
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Reanimator is also a powerful deck in Standard atm, usually the Junk (BWG) or Frites (BWGR) versions. It has the potential to cheat in a fattie on turn 4, or go "long" and hard cast everything in the deck. the Junk colors are very easy to cast but you lose a bit of reach. Adding red to the deck gives you some reach (Rakdos's Return, Devil's Play, Bonfire) and a hand discard outlet (Faithless Looting) but the manabase isn't as nice and neat due to the lack of Stomping Grounds and Sacred Foundry being legal.
Tokens of some kind are also good, you basically have to decide if you want Blue for control, Jace and Tamiyo, or Green for Thragtusk and Rancor.
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Just a little side note, successfully playing worldspine wurm in my current draft.
=D
(chromatic lantern, axebanex2, gatecreeper vine, trestle trollx2, ogre jailbreaker, two keyrunes... 4-0 so far hopefully 6-0.)
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On October 24 2012 07:25 Risen wrote:
Nice! :D
I didn't win, sigh. lost my wurm in the third match to trostani's judgement. yay for the singular card that could beat me.
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Except for the Voidwielder, Dramatic Rescue, Detention Sphere, Selesnya Charm, Syncopate, Cancel, Essence Backlash, Fall of the Gavel, Counterflux, Traitorous Instinct?
Don't really mean to be a dick, but there are a lot of answers to that card. Detain even works.
11 mana spells have never been playable in limited since RoE. The card better secure the win, and have an ETB effect, or else it is vulnerable to a lot of cards.
Also I would have laughed if it got essence backlashed. Would have been the biggest blowout I've seen in a long time.
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On October 24 2012 10:43 bobbob wrote:
Except for the Voidwielder, Dramatic Rescue, Detention Sphere, Selesnya Charm, Syncopate, Cancel, Essence Backlash, Fall of the Gavel, Counterflux, Traitorous Instinct?
Don't really mean to be a dick, but there are a lot of answers to that card. Detain even works.
11 mana spells have never been playable in limited since RoE. The card better secure the win, and have an ETB effect, or else it is vulnerable to a lot of cards.
Also I would have laughed if it got essence backlashed. Would have been the biggest blowout I've seen in a long time.
in his deck, the only card he could have played was trostani's judgement, and he topdecked it right after i played it.
and i know it was a topdeck cause he didn't judgement my 9/9 corpsejack the entire time either. he was playing selesneya splash golgari and that was just the one thing...
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On October 24 2012 10:57 Artifex Magnus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 10:43 bobbob wrote:
Except for the Voidwielder, Dramatic Rescue, Detention Sphere, Selesnya Charm, Syncopate, Cancel, Essence Backlash, Fall of the Gavel, Counterflux, Traitorous Instinct?
Don't really mean to be a dick, but there are a lot of answers to that card. Detain even works.
11 mana spells have never been playable in limited since RoE. The card better secure the win, and have an ETB effect, or else it is vulnerable to a lot of cards.
Also I would have laughed if it got essence backlashed. Would have been the biggest blowout I've seen in a long time. in his deck, the only card he could have played was trostani's judgement, and he topdecked it right after i played it. and i know it was a topdeck cause he didn't judgement my 9/9 corpsejack the entire time either. he was playing selesneya splash golgari and that was just the one thing...
Why would he judgement the 9/9 corpsejack? Unless you never showed him the Wurm, or you are actually pressuring him with said Corpsejack. Plus he could have replayed you and knew you had the Wurm.
My friend and I use to get annoyed at people complaining about top decks at the store, now we just eat it all up and tell them yeah, absolutely we never had that card in our hand the entire time.
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On October 24 2012 12:31 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 10:57 Artifex Magnus wrote:On October 24 2012 10:43 bobbob wrote:
Except for the Voidwielder, Dramatic Rescue, Detention Sphere, Selesnya Charm, Syncopate, Cancel, Essence Backlash, Fall of the Gavel, Counterflux, Traitorous Instinct?
Don't really mean to be a dick, but there are a lot of answers to that card. Detain even works.
11 mana spells have never been playable in limited since RoE. The card better secure the win, and have an ETB effect, or else it is vulnerable to a lot of cards.
Also I would have laughed if it got essence backlashed. Would have been the biggest blowout I've seen in a long time. in his deck, the only card he could have played was trostani's judgement, and he topdecked it right after i played it. and i know it was a topdeck cause he didn't judgement my 9/9 corpsejack the entire time either. he was playing selesneya splash golgari and that was just the one thing... Why would he judgement the 9/9 corpsejack? Unless you never showed him the Wurm, or you are actually pressuring him with said Corpsejack. Plus he could have replayed you and knew you had the Wurm. My friend and I use to get annoyed at people complaining about top decks at the store, now we just eat it all up and tell them yeah, absolutely we never had that card in our hand the entire time.
you're so smart. how does it feel winning every pro tour ever? i mean you must be the best player in history right?
oh, right, sarcasm, you're probably terrible.
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That's so juvenile I'm not even sure it merits a response.. rofl.
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Yeah, playing delver, having vapor snag in hand, saying "Hm, that consecrated sphinx will be tough to beat", proceed to thought scour, look surprised as you cast snag.
Let the tilt commence.
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On October 24 2012 18:25 bumatlarge wrote:
Yeah, playing delver, having vapor snag in hand, saying "Hm, that consecrated sphinx will be tough to beat", proceed to thought scour, look surprised as you cast snag.
Let the tilt commence.
Letting him draw 2 cards to maybe put him on tilt? Dunno if that's a fair trade.
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On October 24 2012 21:57 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 18:25 bumatlarge wrote:
Yeah, playing delver, having vapor snag in hand, saying "Hm, that consecrated sphinx will be tough to beat", proceed to thought scour, look surprised as you cast snag.
Let the tilt commence. Letting him draw 2 cards to maybe put him on tilt? Dunno if that's a fair trade.
Totally fair, pretty much most Sphinx player is dead if it comes off the field for any reason at that point. #sadgamestates where you can draw 2 free cards and still die.
Also @sonatasc2:
I know I am good, so good that...well you can read...
+ Show Spoiler +On October 23 2012 03:46 Judicator wrote:
Must be tough taking a "bomb" and losing to commons and uncommons. Worldspine Wurm, not for drafts.
Waiting for the inevitable fuck mtgo rng post now.
Edit2:
So me and a friend was disussing the merits of Bloodfray Giant versus Desecration Demon and which is actually better in draft. Thoughts?
Just waiting on the 2nd part of that post so I can get my certificate of awesome from Ms. Cleo...oh wait that top deck comment kind of validates it...
+ Show Spoiler +
Edit 3:
Guess you should have went to Jarads.
This shit really does write itself.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.chimpout.com/forum/imagehosting/51489ad88aa7ba2.jpg)
