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Magic: The Gathering - Page 233

Forum Index > General Games
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MCMcEmcee
Profile Joined April 2008
United States1609 Posts
October 22 2012 17:06 GMT
#4641
shrug i've had success with every guild other than Golgari (and I haven't actually tried to draft Golgari yet)

if your complaints were like, "Pack Rat is obnoxiously good" or something I could understand, but "I opened bad rares and drew poorly," that doesn't really say anything about this particular format
[iHs]MCMcEmcee@UFO | のヮの
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
October 22 2012 17:08 GMT
#4642
On October 23 2012 01:25 Artifex Magnus wrote:
Opening filibusters then mana bloom then guild feud in draft makes me wanna punch a kitten.


This isn't a bomb oriented format...quit raging.

As for the Jackie situation, seems sketchy, the new rules still doesn't let you circumvent things like this. It's intent was to make it so both players doesn't get penalized for missed triggers.
Get it by your hands...
slyboogie
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3423 Posts
October 22 2012 17:09 GMT
#4643
I believe in a high level event, he new rule is that you have to announce every trigger - every time. No established pattern is iron clad, though I think the Judge can count it towards a ruling. So if you declare an attack with exalted creatures, you must "trigger" each exalted creatures ability.

So this Jackie Lee was technically in the right - even a "must" trigger has to be declared to go on the stack. You have one turn to catch it, otherwise, your opponent gets to decide. I think I heard this on the Limited Resources Podcast when they had a Judge on. I should probably get a written source..
"We dug coal together." Boyd Crowder, Justified
itsben
Profile Joined July 2010
435 Posts
October 22 2012 17:15 GMT
#4644
On October 23 2012 01:56 Risen wrote:
Well that's just sketchy shit from Jackie, but I don't really see a difference between how it would play out in the "old" vs "new" situation.


For old vs new example: If you forget to activate you huntmasters effect to gain life and make a wolf token, you probably won't ever get those effects now. In the the old, you would probably tell a judge and probably get its effect and maybe rewind game state if its not too late.

I personally don't like the rule because it can lead to very sketchy stuff. Like you can pretend to forget a trigger or claim your opponent never declared the trigger.
Artifex Magnus
Profile Joined August 2012
United States75 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-22 17:16:23
October 22 2012 17:15 GMT
#4645
On October 23 2012 02:08 Judicator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2012 01:25 Artifex Magnus wrote:
Opening filibusters then mana bloom then guild feud in draft makes me wanna punch a kitten.


This isn't a bomb oriented format...quit raging.

As for the Jackie situation, seems sketchy, the new rules still doesn't let you circumvent things like this. It's intent was to make it so both players doesn't get penalized for missed triggers.

Lol really? Cause I just built a really solid deck and lost to a single card, Ja'rad golgari lich lord.

Please explain to me how that's not bomb oriented format.

And I had supreme verdicit, codex (the mill one) and 4 chronic flooding, he had 1 card in deck and wins the game with that nonsense card. I supreme verdicted twice to get rid of it and it didn't matter.
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
October 22 2012 17:18 GMT
#4646
Still doesn't exclude the fact that the rule isn't really exploitable if your opponent is noting it.

In any case, this is why I have a habit of tapping my cards (with my fingers) for each trigger when I play paper magic, just a habit to verify triggers going on stack.
Get it by your hands...
MCMcEmcee
Profile Joined April 2008
United States1609 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-22 17:23:56
October 22 2012 17:23 GMT
#4647
On October 23 2012 02:15 Artifex Magnus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2012 02:08 Judicator wrote:
On October 23 2012 01:25 Artifex Magnus wrote:
Opening filibusters then mana bloom then guild feud in draft makes me wanna punch a kitten.


This isn't a bomb oriented format...quit raging.

As for the Jackie situation, seems sketchy, the new rules still doesn't let you circumvent things like this. It's intent was to make it so both players doesn't get penalized for missed triggers.

Lol really? Cause I just built a really solid deck and lost to a single card, Ja'rad golgari lich lord.

Please explain to me how that's not bomb oriented format.

And I had supreme verdicit, codex (the mill one) and 4 chronic flooding, he had 1 card in deck and wins the game with that nonsense card. I supreme verdicted twice to get rid of it and it didn't matter.

wait, you played a deck with... FOUR Chronic Floodings AND a Codex Shredder, and you are going to complain about losing to Jarad?
Perhaps we have different definitions of "really solid deck."
[iHs]MCMcEmcee@UFO | のヮの
Artifex Magnus
Profile Joined August 2012
United States75 Posts
October 22 2012 17:24 GMT
#4648
On October 23 2012 02:23 MCMcEmcee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2012 02:15 Artifex Magnus wrote:
On October 23 2012 02:08 Judicator wrote:
On October 23 2012 01:25 Artifex Magnus wrote:
Opening filibusters then mana bloom then guild feud in draft makes me wanna punch a kitten.


This isn't a bomb oriented format...quit raging.

As for the Jackie situation, seems sketchy, the new rules still doesn't let you circumvent things like this. It's intent was to make it so both players doesn't get penalized for missed triggers.

Lol really? Cause I just built a really solid deck and lost to a single card, Ja'rad golgari lich lord.

Please explain to me how that's not bomb oriented format.

And I had supreme verdicit, codex (the mill one) and 4 chronic flooding, he had 1 card in deck and wins the game with that nonsense card. I supreme verdicted twice to get rid of it and it didn't matter.

wait, you played a deck with... FOUR Chronic Floodings AND a Codex Shredder, and you are going to complain about losing to Jarad?
Perhaps we have different definitions of "really solid deck."

Yeah it was brilliant, easiest 2-1 ever.
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
October 22 2012 17:24 GMT
#4649
On October 23 2012 02:15 Artifex Magnus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2012 02:08 Judicator wrote:
On October 23 2012 01:25 Artifex Magnus wrote:
Opening filibusters then mana bloom then guild feud in draft makes me wanna punch a kitten.


This isn't a bomb oriented format...quit raging.

As for the Jackie situation, seems sketchy, the new rules still doesn't let you circumvent things like this. It's intent was to make it so both players doesn't get penalized for missed triggers.

Lol really? Cause I just built a really solid deck and lost to a single card, Ja'rad golgari lich lord.

Please explain to me how that's not bomb oriented format.

And I had supreme verdicit, codex (the mill one) and 4 chronic flooding, he had 1 card in deck and wins the game with that nonsense card. I supreme verdicted twice to get rid of it and it didn't matter.


Well you are playing Codex and Flooding and lost to a creature that comes out of the graveyard and you rage at a mythic rare? Are you going to complain about Psychic Spiral next?
Get it by your hands...
Artifex Magnus
Profile Joined August 2012
United States75 Posts
October 22 2012 17:26 GMT
#4650
On October 23 2012 02:24 Judicator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2012 02:15 Artifex Magnus wrote:
On October 23 2012 02:08 Judicator wrote:
On October 23 2012 01:25 Artifex Magnus wrote:
Opening filibusters then mana bloom then guild feud in draft makes me wanna punch a kitten.


This isn't a bomb oriented format...quit raging.

As for the Jackie situation, seems sketchy, the new rules still doesn't let you circumvent things like this. It's intent was to make it so both players doesn't get penalized for missed triggers.

Lol really? Cause I just built a really solid deck and lost to a single card, Ja'rad golgari lich lord.

Please explain to me how that's not bomb oriented format.

And I had supreme verdicit, codex (the mill one) and 4 chronic flooding, he had 1 card in deck and wins the game with that nonsense card. I supreme verdicted twice to get rid of it and it didn't matter.


Well you are playing Codex and Flooding and lost to a creature that comes out of the graveyard and you rage at a mythic rare? Are you going to complain about Psychic Spiral next?

it never even came out of his graveyard.

I even sideboarded in a fucking pithing needle rofl that was second to last pick and got it off in game three didn't matter, magic sundering growth topdeck.

bombs matter kids.
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
October 22 2012 17:28 GMT
#4651
I never said bombs don't matter. I am saying that this isn't a bomb-oriented format. Get that through your head.
Get it by your hands...
Artifex Magnus
Profile Joined August 2012
United States75 Posts
October 22 2012 17:28 GMT
#4652
Oh and this is gonna be fun too, I just pulled a worldspine wurm and i'm designing a draft around it, ahaha. axebane guardians and trestle trolls galore.
slyboogie
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3423 Posts
October 22 2012 17:52 GMT
#4653
I can't believe it beat 4 Chronic Floodings, a Pithing Needle and a Codex Shredder. We're talking about Cobblebrutes?
"We dug coal together." Boyd Crowder, Justified
MCMcEmcee
Profile Joined April 2008
United States1609 Posts
October 22 2012 17:56 GMT
#4654
Should have cast Search Warrant to see it coming AND gain life to withstand the onslaught.
[iHs]MCMcEmcee@UFO | のヮの
Artifex Magnus
Profile Joined August 2012
United States75 Posts
October 22 2012 17:58 GMT
#4655
Oh man, you guys must have so many tour trophies.

I'm so envious of your elitism and misconception!
IMABUNNEH
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom1062 Posts
October 22 2012 17:58 GMT
#4656
Lolmill
"I think...now? No rival. Me world champion. Yeah. None rival." - oGsMC
slyboogie
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3423 Posts
October 22 2012 18:02 GMT
#4657
Geez, we're just teasing.

Talking about the rares you open in booster packs is like talking about your fantasy football team, naw mean?
"We dug coal together." Boyd Crowder, Justified
DEN1ED
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1087 Posts
October 22 2012 18:15 GMT
#4658
On October 22 2012 22:42 Judicator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2012 14:22 DEN1ED wrote:
Ya, that's kinda how every combo deck works... I would like to play eggs but watching it isn't the most fun. LOL at wotc making him go through the motions and full combo "for the viewers at home." I hate how wotc and broadcasters assume everyone watching is a complete moron and everything needs to be completely explained to them. I think once he casts a few second sunrises people will get it. Do you really need to show him doing it 20 times?


Yes? Once you realize people have messed up on far easier things in the Finals of PT level events, like drawing a card more than they should have. It's like when Conley Woods made that Ooze-Poppet deck for the new Extended right before a PTQ event, I pretty much won some of those match ups just because I made my opponent go through the motions and some of them couldn't do it properly.

Even at the PT-level, a lot of "known" players do not completely understand how mechanics work (most of them are smart enough to ask a judge before attempting). Now if it sounds like I rules lawyering them, hardly. If you know how to execute the combo, then there's no problem and whatever complaints the pilot might have had died with the minute he/she chose the deck. Complaining about being forced to walk through the combo is the equivalent of a Battle of Wits player complaining of shuffling.

Plus the Eggs combo isn't exactly an easy one to understand, definitely one of the more complicated (I would argue the most complicated) combo decks to pilot.

Edit:

At above poster, I have played a lot of RTR drafts thus far and I don't think my deck has looked the same (theme-wise) yet, I really don't understand where you're getting that "only GW/BR" part from.


LOL, it wasn't his opponent that asked him to go through all the motions, it was the wotc staff that asked him to so that the viewers at home could see it. His opponent would have gladly conceded the game far earlier and even jokingly asked if he could just take a nap. Sure, at a ptq when you are playing vs a lot of people very inexperienced with their decks make them go through the motions. When you are in the top8 of a PT vs a plat lvl pro who just went 15-1 and very clearly demonstrated he is VERY experienced with the deck, once he shows me his hand with 3+ second sunrise affects I just scoop.
Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-22 18:36:16
October 22 2012 18:33 GMT
#4659
On October 23 2012 02:15 itsben wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2012 01:56 Risen wrote:
Well that's just sketchy shit from Jackie, but I don't really see a difference between how it would play out in the "old" vs "new" situation.


For old vs new example: If you forget to activate you huntmasters effect to gain life and make a wolf token, you probably won't ever get those effects now. In the the old, you would probably tell a judge and probably get its effect and maybe rewind game state if its not too late.

I personally don't like the rule because it can lead to very sketchy stuff. Like you can pretend to forget a trigger or claim your opponent never declared the trigger.


I see nothing wrong with this. Punishes being bad. +1 from Risen.

On October 23 2012 02:56 MCMcEmcee wrote:
Should have cast Search Warrant to see it coming AND gain life to withstand the onslaught.


Can't stop laughing XD
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-22 18:43:19
October 22 2012 18:37 GMT
#4660
Still nothing wrong with it. Its good for the game.

Back to the teasing. Waiting for the draft to go horribly wrong as he gets tempoed out by Azorious leading to the proclamation that there are in fact 3 viable archtypes in this draft format and not just the 2 as previously thought.

Edit:

No it does not. This was discussed by multiple websites when the changes were announced. Beneficial triggers can be forgotten, not things like Stab Wound. Like the Huntmaster trigger is ok, losing life on Stab Wound not ok.

Edit 2:
The pro level of the player tells you nothing of their mechanics understanding. Like PT players have had to ask how Soulbound works.
Get it by your hands...
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