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Magic: The Gathering - Page 131
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
EDIT: Wrong thread. Ha. Sorry. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
What is funny is that I have noticed some of the Illusions decks go up to 4 Images against me hoping to copy a non-existent Titan or Sphinx. Lastly, mono-Black I would say the match up against UB is around 6-4 in UB favor overall and 7-3 post-board, they just have really shitty sideboard responses to Curse, BSZ, and Spellbomb. That deck is lacking a strong 2 drop which is getting it killed in pretty much every match I played. Edit: Nothing beats the feeling of stabilizing with 5 or less life right now with UB. | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + 4x Diregraf Ghoul 4x Gravecrawler 4x Geralf's Messenger 4x Diregraf Captain 2x Black Cat 4x Altar's Reap 4x Tragic Slip 16x Swamp 4x Drowned Catacomb 4x Darkslick Shores 4x Smallpox 2x Distress 1x Black Sun's Zenith 3x Liliana of the Veil | ||
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
Decklist: + Show Spoiler + Artifacts: 3x Mox Opal 3x Grafdigger's cage Creatures: 4x Etched Champion 4x Memnite 3x Perilous myr 4x Phantasmal Image 2x Phyrexian Metamorph Enchantments: 4x Tempered Steel Instants: 2x Dispatch 4x Mana Leak 2x Negate Sorceries: 4x Ponder Land: 4x Seachrome Coast 4x Glacial Fortress 4x Inkmoth Nexus 1x Moorland haunt 5x Island 4x Plains Sideboard: (Under construction. Probably can use some advice here. This list is what I am currently contemplating.) 3x Celestial purge 3x Day of judgement 3x Timely reinforcements 3x Ratchet bomb 3x Revoke existence Sideboard think tank: Divine offering Dissipate O-rings My original draft of the deck was terrible and I found I died almost 100% of the time to aggro, so I threw in the perilous myrs. Currently I don't feel the memnites are very good in this style of a deck. The original game plan was to resolve a champion, and clone it twice. I know for a fact that this deck can be refined, but I am currently at a bit of a dead end trying to think about it myself. Current issues: -Memnites don't feel very good when being played. They simply don't hit hard without a resolved tempered steel, and I feel like they take up a card slot needlessly. Metalcraft is pretty crucial though, or else dispatches become dead draws. They also trade decently with stuff (they are free after all). - It seems like I end up killing my playtest partners with inkmoths half the time, and that only happens because they are bad and don't run ghost quarters. Contemplating running white sun's zenith as alternate wincon against control mirrors. - Need ghost quarters of my own. -Lack of o-rings. Not sure why I don't have any. @bumatlarge I put together a zombie deck somewhat similar to yours, and it currently just feels very clunky. I want to make the deck more aggressive, but it just feels really really slow compared to token/human decks I played before. | ||
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
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dragoonkf
Singapore1256 Posts
And mainboarding cage is just bad, although it is a terrific sideboard. Phyrexian Metamorph is just too slow. The reason Tempered steel is good is because of the aggressiveness and flexibility it provides. | ||
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
Every single deck, except wolf run and rdw, uses the graveyard in some way. Its never a bad thing to drop. Your alternative turn 1 would just be ponder. The only other 1 drop artifacts that could be considered would be signal pest, hex parasite, or maybe flayer husk, all of which will be killed from gut shots, tragic slips, and any other manner of 1 toughness killers. When you need metalcraft to ensure your dispatches are not dead draws, having a less removable turn 1 seems pretty important. | ||
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dragoonkf
Singapore1256 Posts
I feel cage only seems great against a few decks in Standard, so being in your deck is a bad thing as it could a very dead draw against other decks. If you desperately want metalcraft, there are always still better cards than mainboard cage, for instance vault skirge is a 1drop as you WILL never want to cast it as a 2 drop in tempered steel. Signal pest, Mortar pod and sylvok lifestaff are some other great 1 drop options for your deck. Looking closer at your deck, i realize you are playing some sort of tempered steel control where your win cons are tempered steel with Etched champion. Imo, thats the wrong way of playing tempered steel as you built it into a mid-range deck where it just doesnt shine at all. If you want to play control, go full control like Solar Flare. Of course if this is just for fun/casual, disregard my opinion. I often like to homebrew for fun too . | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
If you want to play some artifact control go play that Boros one and tweak it. Right now that deck is neither control nor aggro aka no identity relying on draws to make it go. | ||
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
Where do you usually check for the latest decklists? | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On February 01 2012 03:12 dignity wrote: You are right in that the deck has no identity right now. Its a bit all over the place. Where do you usually check for the latest decklists? No where really, I check top 8 lists from PTs and GPs then go and tweak them. The reason being is that I was able to test from the start of this T2 so I was able to follow the metagame changes and understand that reason for its changes. The only thing you can really do with that deck is to decide if you want to be aggressive (which you kind of have to since MBC does not exist in any capacity in today's environment) or mid-game which again doesn't exist against Delver/Geist. So pick something and just run a bunch of tests and when you come to some kind of conclusion about the deck's viability, either run more tests or just drop it (like I did with Flare and Esper). Right now the only thing that DKA introduced is...not a whole lot for T2 outside of a few limited impact cards. Evolving Wilds only counts as it makes us go back to the decks that we stopped playing namely for mana reasons, but its a terrible card only made good because of the terrible mana in standard but you still can't support 3 colors consistently off of it (you try playing tapped lands against Delver or tokens). Pretty sure the only worthwhile card to build around is Huntmaster which I am looking forward to seeing from Kibler. I am also looking forward to PV's suggested lists for certain decks. Edit: Also, that Tempered List looks retarded, there's no point to any of the cards that you decided to add. | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3889 Posts
On February 01 2012 04:38 Judicator wrote: No where really, I check top 8 lists from PTs and GPs then go and tweak them. The reason being is that I was able to test from the start of this T2 so I was able to follow the metagame changes and understand that reason for its changes. The only thing you can really do with that deck is to decide if you want to be aggressive (which you kind of have to since MBC does not exist in any capacity in today's environment) or mid-game which again doesn't exist against Delver/Geist. So pick something and just run a bunch of tests and when you come to some kind of conclusion about the deck's viability, either run more tests or just drop it (like I did with Flare and Esper). Right now the only thing that DKA introduced is...not a whole lot for T2 outside of a few limited impact cards. Evolving Wilds only counts as it makes us go back to the decks that we stopped playing namely for mana reasons, but its a terrible card only made good because of the terrible mana in standard but you still can't support 3 colors consistently off of it (you try playing tapped lands against Delver or tokens). Pretty sure the only worthwhile card to build around is Huntmaster which I am looking forward to seeing from Kibler. I am also looking forward to PV's suggested lists for certain decks. Edit: Also, that Tempered List looks retarded, there's no point to any of the cards that you decided to add. I think your ignoring lingering souls, it's by far the second biggest card from the set next to evolving wilds, and then the rest are a little bit less valuable than that(Sorin and then Huntmaster I suppose but I doubt they have as much impact at all as Lingering/Wilds) 5 mana for 4 1/1 fliers and you can split when you pay for it, for wrath recovery etc is just too much value. Is anyone else playing MOCS next weekend, I'm 1 point away from 2 byes, so I'm grinding today. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On February 01 2012 04:45 BlueBird. wrote: I think your ignoring lingering souls, it's by far the second biggest card from the set next to evolving wilds, and then the rest are a little bit less valuable than that(Sorin and then Huntmaster I suppose but I doubt they have as much impact at all as Lingering/Wilds) 5 mana for 4 1/1 fliers and you can split when you pay for it, for wrath recovery etc is just too much value. Is anyone else playing MOCS next weekend, I'm 1 point away from 2 byes, so I'm grinding today. I am around 8-0 against Tokens right now...Lingering Souls comes down at 3 at sorcery speed for 2 tokens, that sadly is already too slow. Why? You're generating 2 1/1 fliers for 3 on your turn meaning you do not start doing damage until 4 with said tokens. Sure you get 4 tokens on 4, but you're still only hitting me for 4 on 5. You just have next to 0 reach and there are tons of outs to those 1/1s for a lot of decks. The deck looks good on paper, but unless you stick an anthem players have days to find outs. I have stabilized multiple times against tokens at 2 or 3 life and it's not like that's close either. Untap play Curse or BSZ for 3 or 4 with counter mana up. Congrats you are now drawing dead the rest of the game. Then post-board...lol it's not even close post-board. Edit: I did forget a card though, Thalia will be very powerful in a white weenie build, she's easily the hardest card to deal with on the play and control players do NOT want to counter her but killing her at 3 mana is miserable. | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3889 Posts
On February 01 2012 05:03 Judicator wrote: I am around 8-0 against Tokens right now...Lingering Souls comes down at 3 at sorcery speed for 2 tokens, that sadly is already too slow. Why? You're generating 2 1/1 fliers for 3 on your turn meaning you do not start doing damage until 4 with said tokens. Sure you get 4 tokens on 4, but you're still only hitting me for 4 on 5. You just have next to 0 reach and there are tons of outs to those 1/1s for a lot of decks. The deck looks good on paper, but unless you stick an anthem players have days to find outs. I have stabilized multiple times against tokens at 2 or 3 life and it's not like that's close either. Untap play Curse or BSZ for 3 or 4 with counter mana up. Congrats you are now drawing dead the rest of the game. Then post-board...lol it's not even close post-board. Edit: I did forget a card though, Thalia will be very powerful in a white weenie build, she's easily the hardest card to deal with on the play and control players do NOT want to counter her but killing her at 3 mana is miserable. The thing is you don't have to play lingering souls in a tokens deck, I think your igoring the fact that decks can use lingering souls in any deck playing white pretty much, it works great with cards like forbidden alchemy etc. It applies pressure 4 1/1s is no joke, it clogs up the board, gives you blockers etc. And I don't think you have to use it on turn 3, then follow up on 4, you can keep em in your grave for after your BSZ... But yeah if everyone is still gonna be main decking curse then I can see why you wouldn't play it. I still think it's one of the most important cards in the set, far more than Huntmaster at least. | ||
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
I would also say vault of the archangel is a pretty major card. Chalice of life would make pristine control more playable. I would say people might actually start siding in ray of revelation to kill curses. | ||
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dragoonkf
Singapore1256 Posts
On February 01 2012 05:27 dignity wrote: Just a question for your UBw deck, what are your wincons? drownyards? blue sun zeniths? karns? I would also say vault of the archangel is a pretty major card. Chalice of life would make pristine control more playable. I would say people might actually start siding in ray of revelation to kill curses. I don't think Chalice of life will see play currently in Standard as it is near impossible to flip it. Vault is a card for BW tokens so i doubt it will see play in UBw decks (aka solar flare) For a UBw deck right now, resolving a Karn/Elesh Norn/Curse of Death hold would be a win con i guess. Curse of Death Hold is such a sick card in Standard right now due to the amount of 1 toughness creatures. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On February 01 2012 05:20 BlueBird. wrote: The thing is you don't have to play lingering souls in a tokens deck, I think your igoring the fact that decks can use lingering souls in any deck playing white pretty much, it works great with cards like forbidden alchemy etc. It applies pressure 4 1/1s is no joke, it clogs up the board, gives you blockers etc. And I don't think you have to use it on turn 3, then follow up on 4, you can keep em in your grave for after your BSZ... But yeah if everyone is still gonna be main decking curse then I can see why you wouldn't play it. I still think it's one of the most important cards in the set, far more than Huntmaster at least. Umm, you would think it would work like that, but that sorcery speed restriction literally kills it for most decks. Control decks can't afford to play it early. And maindecking Curse right now is a forgone conclusion. Just testing Stark's original list for GP Orlando, I wanted Curse more often than not against the current environment. I think Huntmaster has more potential than Lingering Souls. As for my deck, its not UBw, it's UB, white isn't worth splashing for. Win cons are similar to Stark's list, just a bit differing in number. There are some parts I didn't agree with given the speed of some decks right now (casting 3 mana edicts for example). | ||
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
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