EPTMagic: The Gathering - Page 118
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bobbob
United States368 Posts
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On January 04 2012 14:56 deth2munkies wrote: I can give you the perfect example. I had a game with a slow draw, he had Rebuke and Bonds of Faith for my first 2 plays and ended up pinging me down with fliers while I was getting in for 3 with a Kessig Wolf. Eventually, I got on the board with Shepherd and Terror. He had 2 midnight haunting tokens and an Abby Griffin left at this point and I was at 8 life while he was at 10. If I had drawn Moonmist instead of 3 lands, I would have won that game easily, giving me a turn of fog from his fliers, then a huge swing back. Sure, Volley was just as much of an out, so were other cards, but Moonmist was a viable out I could have drawn at any point in 2-3 turns and won the game. Um, what? 2 tokens and Griffin is 4 damage per turn, Shepherd and Terror wins that race from 8 easily... on top of the fact he needs to keep playing spells to keep your wolves in human form or flip them back...I don't see why you wouldn't have won that game anyways. You both on are on 2 turn clocks. He can't just chump without having another creature and win. So...what did Moonmist do for you there again? And what kind of dumb logic is "drawing Moonmist instead of 3 lands" ? Go think about how easy it is to play around Moonmist. If he swings with just 2 creatures and leaving two blockers (Abbey with vigi) back, your Moonmist does very little. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On January 04 2012 23:39 Judicator wrote: Um, what? 2 tokens and Griffin is 4 damage per turn, Shepherd and Terror wins that race from 8 easily... on top of the fact he needs to keep playing spells to keep your wolves in human form or flip them back...I don't see why you wouldn't have won that game anyways. You both on are on 2 turn clocks. He can't just chump without having another creature and win. So...what did Moonmist do for you there again? And what kind of dumb logic is "drawing Moonmist instead of 3 lands" ? Go think about how easy it is to play around Moonmist. If he swings with just 2 creatures and leaving two blockers (Abbey with vigi) back, your Moonmist does very little. Nvm, got games mixed up. He swung me for 4, played something irrelevant (caravan vigil or something), then passed the turn. At which point it was Moonmist, Volley, Geistflame, or death. Moonmist was still an out. Moonmist will always be an out when you're getting raced with fliers and it does combo with Curse of the Nightly Hunt to create blowouts. You just don't want to be reasonable so there's not much of a point to continue. | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
On January 04 2012 14:46 Judicator wrote: How does moonmist help if you are losing? Like please present a credible situation where you think Moonmist will get you out of trouble? And while you are at it, let me know where you are getting half losing and half winning. Like i said earlier, think about when moonmist would be better than hunt. You guys are thinking only of specific cases but not thinking about how often those cases would happen. Its still 7 relevant targets, how often does Kessig and Darkthicket lose in straight combat? Moonmist is a reach unless you're planning for a mass flip of your humans all at once. Even in that case, it's exceptionally gimmicky and will only be a true positive if you have multiple humans in play. Moonmist does not fit the deck. Every card in standard should benefit your other 39~ non land cards. If it doesn't, it's a waste of a card slot, and should be replaced by something with better synergy. This is universally true when it comes to standard play. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On January 05 2012 01:09 deth2munkies wrote: I frogot the double travel prep. He played that on the last turn to kill me. Again, Moonmist would have saved me. I'm not even going to respond to you anymore, it's clear you don't want to be reasonable. I am being unreasonable? When multiple people have told you how underwhelming the card is? When multiple draft videos show people cutting Moonmist with less than 10 wolves? Congrats, you found the one situation where the guy had double removal and you drew poorly and moonmist was an out. It very much could have been winnable if you weren't in that situation in the first place. How often does that situation turn up? My point is that yes, Moonmist can be great, but MOST of the time it's terrible. Thus making it a mediocre card at best and terrible card with only 7 targets. That doesn't warrant a spot in the deck, certainly not in that deck with 7 targets. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On January 05 2012 01:25 Durp wrote: Moonmist is a reach unless you're planning for a mass flip of your humans all at once. Even in that case, it's exceptionally gimmicky and will only be a true positive if you have multiple humans in play. Moonmist does not fit the deck. Every card in standard should benefit your other 39~ non land cards. If it doesn't, it's a waste of a card slot, and should be replaced by something with better synergy. This is universally true when it comes to standard play. Yeah, my Tormented Pariah and Darkthicket Wolf is just not cutting it either in Standard. He's really struggling because it just doesn't meet that universal truth of Standard. | ||
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Orpheos
United States1663 Posts
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SMD
Canada627 Posts
Main Deck 8 Island 10 Mountain 4 Sulfur Falls 4 Invisible Stalker 4 Reckless Waif 3 Snapcaster Mage 4 Stromkirk Noble 4 Brimstone Volley 3 Curiosity 4 Devil's Play 3 Furor of the Bitten 2 Silent Departure 3 Silver-Inlaid Dagger 4 Spectral Flight Sideboard 3 Blasphemous Act 2 Butcher's Cleaver 2 Dissipate 4 Geistflame 2 Rolling Temblor 2 Stitched Drake a couple questions: Is there a better budget deck than this? Are the Snapcasters or Sulfur falls reasonably replaceable? Why the stitched drake in SB? Also wondering what other Constructed Formats are cheap to build a reasonable deck for some good fun. thanks! | ||
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huameng
United States1133 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [This RU list] + Main Deck 60 cards 10 Island 8 Mountain 4 Sulfur Falls 22 lands 4 Delver of Secrets 4 Invisible Stalker 4 Stromkirk Noble 12 creatures 4 Brimstone Volley 1 Butcher's Cleaver 3 Curiosity 4 Devil's Play 2 Dissipate 4 Furor of the Bitten 2 Geistflame 1 Silent Departure 1 Silver-Inlaid Dagger 4 Spectral Flight 26 other spells Sideboard 2 Blasphemous Act 1 Butcher's Cleaver 1 Dissipate 2 Geistflame 2 Silent Departure 2 Stitched Drake 3 Undead Alchemist 2 Witchbane Orb 15 sideboard cards + Show Spoiler [RW aggro] + Main Deck 60 cards 4 Clifftop Retreat 7 Mountain 13 Plains 24 lands 4 Champion of the Parish 4 Cloistered Youth 4 Doomed Traveler 4 Elite Inquisitor 3 Fiend Hunter 2 Geist-Honored Monk 4 Instigator Gang 25 creatures 4 Brimstone Volley 3 Devil's Play 4 Midnight Haunting 11 other spells Sideboard 2 Blasphemous Act 1 Fiend Hunter 3 Geistflame 2 Mentor of the Meek 2 Mikaeus, the Lunarch 3 Silverchase Fox 2 Slayer of the Wicked 15 sideboard cards If you don't play with Mikaeus it's probably like $10, and with those 2 Mikaeuses it's like $20, which is about as cheap as it gets. I dunno what your budget is, but even Snapcaster is only $8 or so online, so if you are willing to put down $50 or so you can play any deck that doesn't run a bunch of planeswalkers, so if you wanna play Burning Vengeance or make a billion spiders, that should be pretty cheap too. | ||
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bobbob
United States368 Posts
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
edit: I've also seen LSV's newest Esper Gauntlet and I can't help but disagree with his feelings on the Sphinx. I haven't lost a game when it hits the board. even if they vapor snag it. I don't play it until I have that counter back up or have the life to play it into snag anyways so I really don't see the issue. Plus I have yet to lose a game when drawing cards off of Sphinx. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
If you are waiting till 6 to cast Day, your counters are just dead to a multitude of cards or combination of cards if they have 4 or 5 lands up, so what do you do then? Wait while they have you on a significant clock? Same goes for Sphinx except is even later (turn 8) and you are probably even further behind in life and board. Illusions can just literally sit back after sticking 2 creatures on turns 1-2, then Esper is just straight up under the gun the rest of the match. Sphinx is absolutely useless against tempo decks. If you aren't finding yourself in those situations against Illusions, then you are either very lucky or the Illusion pilots are terrible. Also before you bring up hurhur Doom Blade their creatures, they drop a Moorland Haunt or Geist, you are in the same position as before if not worse. Edit: Read the rest of LSV's updates to that list, I did something very similar to that Esper list to eliminate some of your godawful lines of play against Illusions and various aggro lists. | ||
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OhNoItsTheMunch
United States96 Posts
So I just started playing standard with some friends from home as of about a month ago, and I've been trying to put together my own decks. Just recently put together a zombie deck, but for a lot of reasons, I feel unconfortable. Namely it was so cheap to build, but seems to play so strongly. Since this thread seems active with a lot of opinionated members, I was hoping to get some advice on my decklist. + Show Spoiler + 21 Swamp 2 Skinrender 4 Cemetery Reaper 2 Ghoulraiser 4 Diregraf Ghoul 2 Vengeful Pharaoh 4 Walking Corpse 2 Unbreathing Horde 2 Despise 2 Distress 2 Geth's Verdict 2 Doom Blade 4 Ghoulcaller's Chant 3 Altar's Reap 2 Endless Ranks of the Dead 2 Demonmail Hauberk | ||
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On January 08 2012 03:56 dignity wrote: You sure its a good idea to run only 21 land? Your curve is pretty standard so that might be a bit risky when you have no ramp of any kind. Its fine for a casual deck, but I think you will find that competitive decks will crush you. This was the biggest mistake when I first started building. The thought that 1 land for every three draws is just so compelling. | ||
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OhNoItsTheMunch
United States96 Posts
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
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