EPTI don't like it unless I really have like upwards of 10 wolves to make it a consistent combat trick that I wouldn't side out after a game provided my opponent isn't brain dead.
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
I don't like it unless I really have like upwards of 10 wolves to make it a consistent combat trick that I wouldn't side out after a game provided my opponent isn't brain dead. | ||
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
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bobbob
United States368 Posts
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
All this with 2 cards. Minus the haste. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On January 03 2012 10:19 Judicator wrote: 7 wolves that wouldn't die in combat anyways. Moonmist is underwhelming because werewolves usually won't die in combat anyways or will trade very favorably. The problem is that it doesn't help you put a game away like Vampiric Fury does, hell I would play Full Moon's Rise before I even consider running this card. I don't like it unless I really have like upwards of 10 wolves to make it a consistent combat trick that I wouldn't side out after a game provided my opponent isn't brain dead. That's just not true, especially with Kruin Outlaw in the deck. Mainphase Moonmist = werewolves can't be blocked means instakill from a stable board of humans. Not only that, but given I don't have any Villagers, only my Grizzled Outcasts had more than 2 toughness, so they'd be stopped singlehandedly by a Silverchase Fox or Elder Cathar unless I Timewalked myself to flip them. It may be a mediocre trick, but as a mini-overrun it's quite good. I only sided it out against the BV player for Gutter Grime because he had 2 occultists, 2 delvers, and a Skaab Goliath as his only creatures. Also, on Devils: If I have 5 mana and haven't killed them yet, they're at low life. I killed someone by blocking with devils then Brimstone Volleying off the morbid for 8 damage. They also closed out a game of the finals where he was at 3 with no creatures. The reach really makes a difference. Honestly, the most awkward card in the deck was Rage Thrower. He mostly just ate a piece of removal the turn he came in, I think he only activated once all draft. He normally just sat in my hand while I played out everything else in my deck with 4-5 lands. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
I drafted a RUB deck 2 weeks ago with 3 Volleys and about 11 creatures. I was stuck on 3 lands all night and only dropped a game. Volley just creates better lines of play. Moonmist is just whatever, I would rather get in damage guaranteed than some cute trick that would only work once. | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
On a different note to the thread topic a bit (since this thread is MTG: Online) I thought some other Magic enthusiasts would be able to appreciate the first few pages of our main rare binder (3 person shared collection) - I will put it in spoilers. If anyone has an alpha mana vault, PM me I'm down for trades  hahaha+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bVO5o.jpg) - top to bottom - Foil Ajani, Koth, Gideon Jura (there are 3 more underneath that one), 3 garruk relentless (one is foil) Jace memory Adept, Elspeth, Elspeth![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FmQ2R.jpg) - top to bottom - 3x Liliana of the Veil, foil Liliana of the Veil, Foil Jace the Mind Sculptor, foil garruk, bottom row is 3 more Lilianas ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qyiM8.jpg) - 3x Bolas (middle one is foil), Hero, Crusader, Elish Norn, more Liliana![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GtvGl.jpg) - Left page: Snapcaster Mages Right page: Daybreak Ranger, Primeval Titan (1 shiny one regular), 3 birthing pod![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3qlms.jpg) - Progenitus, Foil Blighsteel, 4 sensei's divining tops (Kamigawa print) Chrome Mox, 2x Mox Opal![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wE4Dp.jpg) - One of my personal favs of the collection; foil Gaea's CradleAnd the investment page ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tn3Yl.jpg) (In total this binder has 27 Snapcaster Mages, sadly only one is shiny) Other rare binder has our harder to come by bombs; Foil Swords to Plowshares, Foil Demonic Tutor, Foil Sol Ring, Foil Sliver Overlord (original), Tarmogoyf, Foil Damnation/Wrath of God and some other awesome stuff. Anyone got any P9 or other rare bombs to share!? | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On January 04 2012 01:31 Judicator wrote: It's not a mini overrun, it doesn't keep the opponent from blocking. It's something that is played around very easily and only terrible draft players run into it after seeing it once. You only have 7 wolves, but you have 3 Brimstone Volleys. I honestly would have played Nightly Hunt in that deck provided there is nothing else if you are that worried about blockers. Pass turn, flip your wolves, block/trade, 5 them in the face, 7 or 9 if Rage Thrower is out, 8 if you traded a Devils. The only reason why your deck is difficult to handle is because of the Volleys not because of RG wolves (which is a mediocre archetype at best). I drafted a RUB deck 2 weeks ago with 3 Volleys and about 11 creatures. I was stuck on 3 lands all night and only dropped a game. Volley just creates better lines of play. Moonmist is just whatever, I would rather get in damage guaranteed than some cute trick that would only work once. Do you really not know what this card does? Nightly Hunts come in against stall decks that play Fortress Crabs and the like, nobody did. Maindeck they're just worse than Stalked Prey or Moonmist. Not only that, but by the time you have Rage Thrower and the like out they either have a bunch of little fliers or guys just as big as yours because he's 6 freaking mana. There's no way in hell that I'd ever play Moonmist over Volley, so i don't know what you're on about for the rest of the post. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
Most decks wouldn't want to attack you in the first place and later on they would be swinging anyways. Hunt makes it harder to play around devils and thrower, along with morbid Brimstone. So tell me again why you would run Moonmist with 7 wolves over Hunt again? | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
Let me break this down... You take a whole turn in the race, or you can completely squash their lines of play when they're in the red zone which they need to be anyways with decks like this. Basically, think about where Moonmist is good and how often that is relevant. It seems cool to flip 3 werewolves or one-side fog them, but is it consistent and is it relevant? Like I can't think of a situation where Hunt would be worse than Moonmist, but I can think of multiple situations and board states where Hunt is better than Moonmist. Especially with only 7 relevant targets. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
Nothing is irrelevant in Limited. You have to make everything work for you. I would never think that you would ignore text on a Magic card because you think it's "irrelevant." You know it isn't. Limited Magic is consistently won on the back of relatively weak cards with small interactions. It's ridiculous that you'd say that there's only 7 relevant targets. Every target is relevant. Can you accept that half the time you play you are losing and that half the time you play you are winning? Is this blanket statement fair? What if I gave it a plus minus of 10% to just give it some intellectual leg room. What does Curse of the Nightly Hunt do for you when you're losing? I can think of situations where one card is better than the other, because that's what limited is. If you play enough, you'll have enough scenarios where it'll matter. Moonmist is probably better than Curse of the Nightly Hunt. That's my opinion, I suppose. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
And while you are at it, let me know where you are getting half losing and half winning. Like i said earlier, think about when moonmist would be better than hunt. You guys are thinking only of specific cases but not thinking about how often those cases would happen. Its still 7 relevant targets, how often does Kessig and Darkthicket lose in straight combat? | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On January 04 2012 14:46 Judicator wrote: How does moonmist help if you are losing? Like please present a credible situation where you think Moonmist will get you out of trouble? And while you are at it, let me know where you are getting half losing and half winning. Like i said earlier, think about when moonmist would be better than hunt. You guys are thinking only of specific cases but not thinking about how often those cases would happen. Its still 7 relevant targets, how often does Kessig and Darkthicket lose in straight combat? I can give you the perfect example. I had a game with a slow draw, he had Rebuke and Bonds of Faith for my first 2 plays and ended up pinging me down with fliers while I was getting in for 3 with a Kessig Wolf. Eventually, I got on the board with Shepherd and Terror. He had 2 midnight haunting tokens and an Abby Griffin left at this point and I was at 8 life while he was at 10. If I had drawn Moonmist instead of 3 lands, I would have won that game easily, giving me a turn of fog from his fliers, then a huge swing back. Sure, Volley was just as much of an out, so were other cards, but Moonmist was a viable out I could have drawn at any point in 2-3 turns and won the game. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On January 04 2012 14:46 Judicator wrote: How does moonmist help if you are losing? Like please present a credible situation where you think Moonmist will get you out of trouble? And while you are at it, let me know where you are getting half losing and half winning. Like i said earlier, think about when moonmist would be better than hunt. You guys are thinking only of specific cases but not thinking about how often those cases would happen. Its still 7 relevant targets, how often does Kessig and Darkthicket lose in straight combat? When people play their own dumb combat tricks. When the other creature has first strike or equipment. Regardless, I can't convince you because I still remember our conversation about Forbidden Alchemy vs Think Twice. It's like you've never been in a situation where combat math works out to one turn. And is my number that wrong? Unless you're some pro, you aren't winning much more than 50% of your game, by which I mean 6% or 8% more. In any given random situation, you're either winning or losing, or tied, I suppose. I'd say it's about half and half. | ||
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