EPTElite Vangard or Doomed Traveler?
Magic: The Gathering - Page 107
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
Elite Vangard or Doomed Traveler? | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On December 04 2011 07:28 zhurai wrote: for G/W humans... Elite Vangard or Doomed Traveler? Doomed all the way. | ||
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
On December 04 2011 07:14 slyboogie wrote: I've found Dismember to be tough against Tenpered Steel, for obvious reasons. It's not a great card, but if you're worried about Tempered Steel, you can try Gut Shot. I'm not worried about T-Steel so much as I am the inkmoth nexuses in unison with the Tempered steel. My friend suggested disperse but I'm not sold on that play yet. I just always feel behind in the match up and it's the only match up I walk into not feeling confident in my deck choice. It's so much faster than mine and my normal sideboard plan of tempoing out other aggro decks doesn't work because of the speed. And doomed traveler is way better than elite vanguard. | ||
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
Additionally you can also run instant artifact removal in the form of divine offerings. You might not gain life off of it but it still gets rid of the threat. | ||
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Meta
United States6225 Posts
On December 04 2011 11:34 dignity wrote: Ghost quarters for inkmoths? Additionally you can also run instant artifact removal in the form of divine offerings. You might not gain life off of it but it still gets rid of the threat. Second ghost quarter. 2 main at least. I would run vanguard. The spirit token is moot in GW humans, when all your other creatures are 4/4 or 5/5 on turn 5, a 1/1 won't help you. Plus, on turns 2-3, vanguard will stop more creatures from attacking you than traveler will. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On December 04 2011 09:39 Shotcoder wrote: I'm not worried about T-Steel so much as I am the inkmoth nexuses in unison with the Tempered steel. My friend suggested disperse but I'm not sold on that play yet. I just always feel behind in the match up and it's the only match up I walk into not feeling confident in my deck choice. It's so much faster than mine and my normal sideboard plan of tempoing out other aggro decks doesn't work because of the speed. And doomed traveler is way better than elite vanguard. Disperse for the Tempered Steel? That's totally bleh. You already run Revoke in the side. | ||
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bobbob
United States368 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On December 04 2011 11:53 Meta wrote: Second ghost quarter. 2 main at least. I would run vanguard. The spirit token is moot in GW humans, when all your other creatures are 4/4 or 5/5 on turn 5, a 1/1 won't help you. Plus, on turns 2-3, vanguard will stop more creatures from attacking you than traveler will. Day protection? Gavony T5? | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
Also, why would a Vanguard stop more creatures from attacking you? More specifically, what creature? | ||
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Cixah
United States11285 Posts
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
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Orpheos
United States1663 Posts
On December 04 2011 07:28 zhurai wrote: for G/W humans... Elite Vangard or Doomed Traveler? i think the real answer to this is avacyn pilgrim (just read back you have pilgrim. then answer is BoP) | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
On December 04 2011 11:34 dignity wrote: Ghost quarters for inkmoths? Additionally you can also run instant artifact removal in the form of divine offerings. You might not gain life off of it but it still gets rid of the threat. I'm already running 4 non white lands I think the addition of any ghost quarters just kills this mana base too much for it to be worth it. Also add in the fact I'm stretching on lands with 22 anyways. I think the main board Relic-warders and sideboard days will help a lot. | ||
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
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Meta
United States6225 Posts
Frankly, both cards are bad. If you NEED to run either, I still say run Vanguard. You guys are too scared of turn 4 day. This is far and away the most aggressive format in years. 1 or 2 spirits after a wrath isn't going to win you the game, and the extra damage you'd deal on turns 2-3-4 from the Vanguard will usually make up for it. Furthermore, of the 4 G/W Humans decks that did well at states, the only two of them that ran either card picked Elite Vanguard. + Show Spoiler + http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?t[T1]=1&deck_name[]=G%2FW+Humans&event_ID=&feedin=&start_date=2011-09-11&end_date=2011-12-04&city=&state=&country=&start=1&finish=8&exp=&p_first=&p_last=&simple_card_name[1]=&simple_card_name[2]=&simple_card_name[3]=&simple_card_name[4]=&simple_card_name[5]=&w_perc=0&g_perc=0&r_perc=0&b_perc=0&u_perc=0&a_perc=0&comparison[1]=%3E%3D&card_qty[1]=1&card_name[1]=&comparison[2]=%3E%3D&card_qty[2]=1&card_name[2]=&comparison[3]=%3E%3D&card_qty[3]=1&card_name[3]=&comparison[4]=%3E%3D&card_qty[4]=1&card_name[4]=&comparison[5]=%3E%3D&card_qty[5]=1&card_name[5]=&sb_comparison[1]=%3E%3D&sb_card_qty[1]=1&sb_card_name[1]=&sb_comparison[2]=%3E%3D&sb_card_qty[2]=1&sb_card_name[2]=&card_not[1]=&card_not[2]=&card_not[3]=&card_not[4]=&card_not[5]=&order_1=finish&order_2=&limit=25&action=Show+Decks Clearly there's a reason these guys picked Vanguard over Traveler, and I think it's because they predicted lots of aggro in the format. Traveler is WAY worse than Vanguard vs Tempered Steel and basically any other aggro deck you'll face. | ||
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
On December 04 2011 17:40 Meta wrote: Regarding Elite Vanguard vs Doomed Traveler in GW Humans Frankly, both cards are bad. If you NEED to run either, I still say run Vanguard. You guys are too scared of turn 4 day. This is far and away the most aggressive format in years. 1 or 2 spirits after a wrath isn't going to win you the game, and the extra damage you'd deal on turns 2-3-4 from the Vanguard will usually make up for it. Furthermore, of the 4 G/W Humans decks that did well at states, the only two of them that ran either card picked Elite Vanguard. + Show Spoiler + http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?t[T1]=1&deck_name[]=G%2FW+Humans&event_ID=&feedin=&start_date=2011-09-11&end_date=2011-12-04&city=&state=&country=&start=1&finish=8&exp=&p_first=&p_last=&simple_card_name[1]=&simple_card_name[2]=&simple_card_name[3]=&simple_card_name[4]=&simple_card_name[5]=&w_perc=0&g_perc=0&r_perc=0&b_perc=0&u_perc=0&a_perc=0&comparison[1]=%3E%3D&card_qty[1]=1&card_name[1]=&comparison[2]=%3E%3D&card_qty[2]=1&card_name[2]=&comparison[3]=%3E%3D&card_qty[3]=1&card_name[3]=&comparison[4]=%3E%3D&card_qty[4]=1&card_name[4]=&comparison[5]=%3E%3D&card_qty[5]=1&card_name[5]=&sb_comparison[1]=%3E%3D&sb_card_qty[1]=1&sb_card_name[1]=&sb_comparison[2]=%3E%3D&sb_card_qty[2]=1&sb_card_name[2]=&card_not[1]=&card_not[2]=&card_not[3]=&card_not[4]=&card_not[5]=&order_1=finish&order_2=&limit=25&action=Show+Decks Clearly there's a reason these guys picked Vanguard over Traveler, and I think it's because they predicted lots of aggro in the format. Traveler is WAY worse than Vanguard vs Tempered Steel and basically any other aggro deck you'll face. 1/1 flyers aren't going to win you a game? they wear a sword and angelic destiny(or battle cry/overrun if you run those) just as well as any other creature plus it puts pressure on your opponent. This is why Humans decks are splashing blue for moorland haunt. The fact is the card gives you that extra reach after a wrath affect, it's affected by honor of the pure in both forms, and is still a 1/1 for 1 with a higher upside than elite vanguard. You're also using decks from October before the standard meta game was set, and when card values were actually found out. I mean the one deck is running 4 green suns while the others are running mentor of the meek and Adaptive automaton. all sub optimal cards in the build in my opinion. | ||
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Cixah
United States11285 Posts
On December 04 2011 17:40 Meta wrote: Regarding Elite Vanguard vs Doomed Traveler in GW Humans Frankly, both cards are bad. If you NEED to run either, I still say run Vanguard. You guys are too scared of turn 4 day. This is far and away the most aggressive format in years. 1 or 2 spirits after a wrath isn't going to win you the game, and the extra damage you'd deal on turns 2-3-4 from the Vanguard will usually make up for it. Furthermore, of the 4 G/W Humans decks that did well at states, the only two of them that ran either card picked Elite Vanguard. + Show Spoiler + http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?t[T1]=1&deck_name[]=G%2FW+Humans&event_ID=&feedin=&start_date=2011-09-11&end_date=2011-12-04&city=&state=&country=&start=1&finish=8&exp=&p_first=&p_last=&simple_card_name[1]=&simple_card_name[2]=&simple_card_name[3]=&simple_card_name[4]=&simple_card_name[5]=&w_perc=0&g_perc=0&r_perc=0&b_perc=0&u_perc=0&a_perc=0&comparison[1]=%3E%3D&card_qty[1]=1&card_name[1]=&comparison[2]=%3E%3D&card_qty[2]=1&card_name[2]=&comparison[3]=%3E%3D&card_qty[3]=1&card_name[3]=&comparison[4]=%3E%3D&card_qty[4]=1&card_name[4]=&comparison[5]=%3E%3D&card_qty[5]=1&card_name[5]=&sb_comparison[1]=%3E%3D&sb_card_qty[1]=1&sb_card_name[1]=&sb_comparison[2]=%3E%3D&sb_card_qty[2]=1&sb_card_name[2]=&card_not[1]=&card_not[2]=&card_not[3]=&card_not[4]=&card_not[5]=&order_1=finish&order_2=&limit=25&action=Show+Decks Clearly there's a reason these guys picked Vanguard over Traveler, and I think it's because they predicted lots of aggro in the format. Traveler is WAY worse than Vanguard vs Tempered Steel and basically any other aggro deck you'll face. No. Its not. Traveler is better in everyway ESPECIALLY in that matchup. I'll post why later when I'm more coherently awake. | ||
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
I don't really think GW wants either Traveler or Vanguard, but if you need to choose one then Traveler is better in the deck. | ||
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