EPTPersonally, I find figuring out tactics in BG2 very satisfying. The complex system allows for many variatons of how to solve all the challenging battles.
So I just installed Baldur's Gate II - Page 51
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AntiGrav1ty
Germany2310 Posts
Personally, I find figuring out tactics in BG2 very satisfying. The complex system allows for many variatons of how to solve all the challenging battles. | ||
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Aquafresh
United States824 Posts
On September 26 2011 03:19 -Archangel- wrote: BG1 and BG2 are not that hard if you just follow the main quests (and read the tooltips/manual) if you are a newbie. This is something I don't get about gamers these days. When I got this game a spent a good hour or two reading the manual learning about, spell progression, spell effects, THAC0, damage, etc. Then I made my character, and had basically no trouble with my playthrough even though I knew about 1% of the overpowered strategies I know now. I don't know why people expect to go into a game without knowing anything about it and not only be competent, but downright successful. It's as if they see every little hardship they face in the game as a direct link to google. This game has a reputation for being hard and unforgiving, but it is certainly feasible to go through the entire game on your first playthrough without relying on extreme trial and error, using only a few reloads. I think the only times I ever ran into something that I had to reload a whole lot to beat were Aec Letec, Davaneorn, and the Warders in Durlags tower for BG1, and probably the fight in the guarded compound, Kangaax, The Tavern Lich, and the Dragons in BG2. Irenicus was not especially difficult in the un-modded game, and the only time I had to abandon a quest to come back and finish it later was with the dragons, and the game actually encourages you to do that and considers the quest complete whether you fight them or not. On September 26 2011 03:41 AntiGrav1ty wrote: You can just kill the little golems manually before they go hostile. Only the one you attack fights back. Need a +2 blunt weapon for one of them. Then retreat and use cloudkill or a magical range weapon for the big one. He cant fit through the door. I think I used Azurewraith axe. No need for invisible blocks. Someone might still find its abuse though. Personally, I find figuring out tactics in BG2 very satisfying. The complex system allows for many variatons of how to solve all the challenging battles. First time I came across the Golems in DeArnise keep I was level 9ish and the best weapon I had between my whole party was the +2 Chaos blade you get from the Genie. My strategy was to run in and grab that +3 axe (Frostreaver?) from one of the statues and have Minsc down every combat oriented potion I had found until that point and go toe to toe with the Iron Golem in the doorway while Jaheira and Aerie heal/cure poison. That took awhile but it worked, and wasn't especially cheesy. The golems are strong offensively and defensively, but they don't actually have too many HP. A couple good hits from a strong fighter will take them down. | ||
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Shockk
Germany2269 Posts
On September 25 2011 22:32 -Archangel- wrote: Can anyone tell me what is a good level to go to Durlag's tower in BG1 with full party (6)? I can't remember from before :D And where do I need to go to get that extra content from the TotSC for BG1? It's been a very long time since I've played TotSC, but back then I considered Durlag's to be "endgame" content - and I remember the fights to be pretty challenging even though my party had a pretty high average level (5 or 6). As for the extra content ... what exactly do you mean? Durlag's tower already is part of the expansion pack content. The rest is accessed by quests and NPCs in the new town where the Durlag quests are. | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On September 25 2011 21:02 Irratonalys wrote: Demogorgon is far from the hardest bosses in the game, sever fights in watchers keep you had to go trough were definatly harder. you can lay a ton of high level traps before you even summon him (thats the lame way) a good fighter with enhanced whirlwind wont have any trouble with taking demogorgon down either. Soloed him (and the rest of Watchers Keep) by being a cheesy bitch with a Blade (loltraps and Crom Faeyr). When I did it 'normally', I used summons to distract his demon summons away from the battle, then blitzed at him and beat him down with brute force. Cleric pretty much liberally throwing out Greater Restorations to keep my front-line up. | ||
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GhostOwl
766 Posts
On September 25 2011 21:02 Irratonalys wrote: Demogorgon is far from the hardest bosses in the game, sever fights in watchers keep you had to go trough were definatly harder. you can lay a ton of high level traps before you even summon him (thats the lame way) a good fighter with enhanced whirlwind wont have any trouble with taking demogorgon down either. OH wait, I forgot I installed a mod that made Demogorgon much harder... Does anyone have experience fighting a beefed up Demogorgon? | ||
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Aquafresh
United States824 Posts
On September 26 2011 13:32 GhostOwl wrote: OH wait, I forgot I installed a mod that made Demogorgon much harder... Does anyone have experience fighting a beefed up Demogorgon? I don't actually think you're even meant to beat the beefed up Demogorgon without playing really cheesy. I'm assuming you're talking about Ascension Demogorgon right? In Ascension he has ludicrously fast regeneration. You can do all the nasty tricks. Traps, horrid wilting contingencies, 10 attack per round monsters, multiple dragon breath etc and unless it outright kills him he'll be back up to full health in a few rounds. He also always has about half a dozen high level demons with him (which are no joke in Ascension) and can turn your party members against you and sling nasty death magic at you and your summons. I usually use the project image tactic (read: cheese) to summon a bunch of planetars, which can be summoned without limit by projected images. Then prepare as usually and hopefully with an army of planetars to put down his endless stream of minions, and a few melee fighters + whatever other summons you can spare + mages + greater restoration, you'll probably be able to take him down provided things go your way. I honestly don't bother with traps with him anymore. You have to lay them way before the battle now, and he shrugs them off easily unless they flat out kill him. He's one of those hidden totally optional super bosses for the masochistic. The exp reward isn't even that great for killing him considering how much of a pain in the ass he is. A sense of achievement is the only thing you get from him. | ||
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GeneralCash
Croatia346 Posts
On September 26 2011 14:20 Aquafresh wrote: I don't actually think you're even meant to beat the beefed up Demogorgon without playing really cheesy. I'm assuming you're talking about Ascension Demogorgon right? In Ascension he has ludicrously fast regeneration. You can do all the nasty tricks. Traps, horrid wilting contingencies, 10 attack per round monsters, multiple dragon breath etc and unless it outright kills him he'll be back up to full health in a few rounds. He also always has about half a dozen high level demons with him (which are no joke in Ascension) and can turn your party members against you and sling nasty death magic at you and your summons. I usually use the project image tactic (read: cheese) to summon a bunch of planetars, which can be summoned without limit by projected images. Then prepare as usually and hopefully with an army of planetars to put down his endless stream of minions, and a few melee fighters + whatever other summons you can spare + mages + greater restoration, you'll probably be able to take him down provided things go your way. I honestly don't bother with traps with him anymore. You have to lay them way before the battle now, and he shrugs them off easily unless they flat out kill him. He's one of those hidden totally optional super bosses for the masochistic. The exp reward isn't even that great for killing him considering how much of a pain in the ass he is. A sense of achievement is the only thing you get from him. teleport field is the key spell. have all your mages cast it. your summons (unless you cheese and make 15 planetars) can't tank his and scsii (ascenssion does nothing for them) demons are hard to tank even with a blade. shuffling his summons around leaves him open for gww focus which should kill him very fast. he's phyisically very weak. just spam breach from wands and whack him. everything i said earlier still applies, viconia or haer'dalis with 100% magic res up front and the dumbass demo will tartet him/her all the time. | ||
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Irratonalys
Germany902 Posts
teleport field is the key spell. Yes , thats right, teleport field is one of those spells that you never use playing the normal game , but that is extremly important if you beef the game up. Id say , the last Solaufleins Dreamcreatures fight isent doable without Teleportation Field (If you have the Solauflein party member mod installed youll get sucked into several fights without preparation time) If you play Ascension , look forward to Abzagail, the "I summon 15 planetars" strat doesent work there, | ||
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GeneralCash
Croatia346 Posts
i do like the 4x project image abuse sometimes for clearing stupidly easy mass fights (like the spider caverns on your way to sendai) without having to rest afterwards. i love abusing the vhailor's helm, especially with a fighter/thief. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On September 26 2011 11:02 Shockk wrote: It's been a very long time since I've played TotSC, but back then I considered Durlag's to be "endgame" content - and I remember the fights to be pretty challenging even though my party had a pretty high average level (5 or 6). As for the extra content ... what exactly do you mean? Durlag's tower already is part of the expansion pack content. The rest is accessed by quests and NPCs in the new town where the Durlag quests are. The rest is what I am wondering about. I only noticed the durlag tower area on the map. So this town is in that area? | ||
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zeru
8156 Posts
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On September 26 2011 20:03 zeru wrote: This thread made me re install bg2+tob, mods etc and I'm now on chapter 3 on a playthrough as kensai/theif doing a 4 man party with Aerie Edwin Viconia. Havent decided if im picking up Soulaufein yet. Trying out as many different things from my other playthroughs as possible. Cloudkilling Firkraag always makes me feel like a bad person. I almost forgot how hilarious Edwin+nether scroll is. Entertainment to the max. Lol, better then the shame he suffers when you kill him directly 1on1 with a lvl 12 barbarian with 2 axes without buffs from other party members :D | ||
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ellerina
Philippines452 Posts
The first battle really lost me. Sure, you had the tutorial in Candlekeep but it felt so strange having to pause and unpause while fighting. Hey, this monster outside Candlekeep is owning my party! Oops, I forgot to pause and give the other members of my party instructions so they're just standing there and getting killed! But I soon found out that the battle system is really fun, after spending almost an hour trying to defeat a group of mercenaries I encountered somewhere (who I think were too high of a level for me) with no casualties. Sure, I could defeat them with one person dying, but you get kind of obsessed trying to defeat them with no one dying because you know you can. And after an hour of maneuvering and figuring out what spell to cast when and when to pull my melee people back and when to charge them, and reloading again and again I finally did it! Fun stuff. Now, I'm done with Davaeorn. It's a good thing his lightning bolt went through my character who had the Boots of Grounding- the others were in some side room trying to find him. My attacks weren't working on him at all and I was using up all my mages' spells, but then in walks my archer and kills him with 4 magic arrows (either ice or fire, it happened so fast). The group of Black Talon Elite archers in the map outside and in other maps are ANNOYING to deal with, positioning really matters since they can pick off low HP people so quickly. So satisfiying when you finally manage to kill them using a well-placed Stinkcloud + Fireball + Missile weapons. | ||
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Shockk
Germany2269 Posts
On September 26 2011 19:57 -Archangel- wrote: The rest is what I am wondering about. I only noticed the durlag tower area on the map. So this town is in that area? I just looked it up because I didn't want to recall everything from my sketchy memory. The town is called Ulgoth's Beard, it's one of the expansion pack's new zones, and all new TotSC quests either start there or are in some way related to it. Here's a map, UB is in the far north. | ||
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Misanthrope
United States924 Posts
On September 25 2011 20:53 Brett wrote: Because it's a fantasy game man... The NPCs come to you and say "Go save X!! Bring me Y". It makes no sense, even from a RP perspective, to go to a place (let's use de'Arnise as an example), start the questing, clearing out the dungeon of mobs that dont respawn as you go, and then get to a certain point and then go "Oops! I can't go any further because all of a sudden these mobs are like 50 levels higher and I can't kill them with what the game has presented me with to date unless I already know the game inside out or cheese/glitch the fight"... So then I go off and spend weeks of in game time doing other quests to level and gear up... Only to return to find everything exactly the same as I left it. If you want to push the real life aspect, if I ran off in the middle of the drama at de'Arnise keep, the family members would all be killed and I would arrive to find nothing but more trolls, umber hulks and golems. If nothing is going to be affected by the lapse of time during which I go and do other shit, then there is really no point in sending me off to other areas to get stronger, you may as well make them with a certain progression in mind. Don't get me wrong, I dislike the "monster level depends on your level" style too. I just prefer consistency: if I can do a dungeon, I personally want to be able to do the WHOLE dungeon so that I can move on. Otherwise, the first few mobs in the place should kick my ass so that I know not to go in there. That's all rather moot of course, because as I soon found out, I dont have to kill those golems to continue. For some reason I thought the flail was going to be a necessary part of the progression in the dungeon. If we're strictly speaking about golems here, your frustrations about the confrontation aren't warranted and your example of the situation is inaccurate. It's as simple as: use blunt weapons against golems. It is a complicated game, and asking for help is totally understandable as is being frustrated at first. Just hop over to Athkatla if you must to get a +2 mace and let Minsc loose his furious wrath of justice upon them and laugh as he revels in his Boo-inspired fury. If you want to discuss game design trends, there's probably already a topic, or you could create a blog about your frustrations. If you want to rant after being pissed at anything, feel free to unload here. The Flail of Ages is nearly a necessary part of the progression of the game. Much the same way Crom Faeyr, or Carsomyr are. Go back and get it, your life will be easier and more enjoyable later on when you use it to surprise Irenicus with flail-powered buttsecks. EDIT: Just looked it up, you can get a +2 mace from Mae'Var's guildhall merchant. Enjoy golem rape. | ||
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hai2u
688 Posts
On September 26 2011 23:30 ellerina wrote: I installed Baldur's Gate I sometime ago because my computer is too old to play most of the recent games smoothly and I have no money available for a new one or upgrades. I decided to play through classic games while saving up money, started with BG I, and it's been great so far. The first battle really lost me. Sure, you had the tutorial in Candlekeep but it felt so strange having to pause and unpause while fighting. Hey, this monster outside Candlekeep is owning my party! Oops, I forgot to pause and give the other members of my party instructions so they're just standing there and getting killed! But I soon found out that the battle system is really fun, after spending almost an hour trying to defeat a group of mercenaries I encountered somewhere (who I think were too high of a level for me) with no casualties. Sure, I could defeat them with one person dying, but you get kind of obsessed trying to defeat them with no one dying because you know you can. And after an hour of maneuvering and figuring out what spell to cast when and when to pull my melee people back and when to charge them, and reloading again and again I finally did it! Fun stuff. Now, I'm done with Davaeorn. It's a good thing his lightning bolt went through my character who had the Boots of Grounding- the others were in some side room trying to find him. My attacks weren't working on him at all and I was using up all my mages' spells, but then in walks my archer and kills him with 4 magic arrows (either ice or fire, it happened so fast). The group of Black Talon Elite archers in the map outside and in other maps are ANNOYING to deal with, positioning really matters since they can pick off low HP people so quickly. So satisfiying when you finally manage to kill them using a well-placed Stinkcloud + Fireball + Missile weapons. ice/fire arrows are really op in BG1 which makes the already op ranged chars even more ridiculous ;p. Glad you are having so much fun, Part of what makes BG great is that you really do feel like accomplishing something after those tough fights where you have to plan out your strategies carefully. | ||
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bRuTaL!!
Finland588 Posts
I play monk and I want -Imoen for story and thief -Edwin good mage and we have the same name, so gotta have him -and Minsc probably the best character in any game? in my group. Who would you take to complete this group and make it good, balanced and interesting? Question #2. I never understood why dualclassing character work. If you stop developing for example your fighter skills lvl 9 and then continue as a mage wont you just be a gimped fighter and a gimped mage? Why are they any good? | ||
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Shockk
Germany2269 Posts
On September 27 2011 17:50 bRuTaL!! wrote: Question #1: I play monk and I want -Imoen for story and thief -Edwin good mage and we have the same name, so gotta have him -and Minsc probably the best character in any game? in my group. Who would you take to complete this group and make it good, balanced and interesting? Question #2. I never understood why dualclassing character work. If you stop developing for example your fighter skills lvl 9 and then continue as a mage wont you just be a gimped fighter and a gimped mage? Why are they any good? As for the party, you probably want a druid or a cleric in there for some healing and support. So much for the balance. As for interesting, you already have a lot of potential with Minsc and Edwin having opposite alignments. What alignment does your main character have? If he's evil as well, pick up Viconia and you'll not only have your cleric support, but loads of fun moments as well. If you're looking for something more neutral, Branwen and Jaheira come to mind. And for the last spot - try Haer'Dalis, I think he's the only Bard NPC. Regarding dual classing: Characters evolve, sometimes they pick up new interests / professions or lose old ideals / faiths. That's were dual classing comes into play, like Imoen did after BG1 becoming a half-mage. It's not so much a method to boost and optimize your character as it's a way to enhance the roleplaying aspects. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10823 Posts
On September 27 2011 11:36 Misanthrope wrote: If we're strictly speaking about golems here, your frustrations about the confrontation aren't warranted and your example of the situation is inaccurate. It's as simple as: use blunt weapons against golems. It is a complicated game, and asking for help is totally understandable as is being frustrated at first. Just hop over to Athkatla if you must to get a +2 mace and let Minsc loose his furious wrath of justice upon them and laugh as he revels in his Boo-inspired fury. If you want to discuss game design trends, there's probably already a topic, or you could create a blog about your frustrations. If you want to rant after being pissed at anything, feel free to unload here. The Flail of Ages is nearly a necessary part of the progression of the game. Much the same way Crom Faeyr, or Carsomyr are. Go back and get it, your life will be easier and more enjoyable later on when you use it to surprise Irenicus with flail-powered buttsecks. EDIT: Just looked it up, you can get a +2 mace from Mae'Var's guildhall merchant. Enjoy golem rape. IIRC! The big Golem can't leave the room anyway (the door is to small). The others are not strong, you just need some anti-golem weaponry... You should already have a Staff +2 from somewhere (I always had one when I was there and I normally make this very early). As for the big one. Just hit him with a 2 handed stuff while standing behind the door... IIRC the cloud he creates around him still hit's you but the golem can't reach you with his physical attacks as long as you use a 2 handed staff? So just switch the weapon between your chars or use healspells/potions until he is down. This is really in no way a hard fight. I had Mages whiteout a point in staff "killing" that guy by hitting him long enough (Slings also work)... It's not a hack'n'slay game, it's an RPG... Use your brain/options... If you can't beat him and think it would be "un"-RPG like to not finish the quest... Well, then bite in the apple and just don't get the items you want out of that room... the Flail of Ages is awesome but in no way required. Question #2. I never understood why dualclassing character work. If you stop developing for example your fighter skills lvl 9 and then continue as a mage wont you just be a gimped fighter and a gimped mage? Why are they any good? Basically Fighters (or better Berserkers or Kensais really and also Rangers/Barbarians) ---> X is ALLWAYS better than a "pure" class (in BG2). Why? The Exp required to lvl ~8/9 is really, really low in BG2 terms. So you lose next to nothing. What you gain from these Fighter levels: Fighters gain more HP in the early levels than other classes --> Your char will have more HP. Fighters gain extra attacks, your char will hit more often. Fighters can specialize into weapons, your char will hit more often/fight generally better. Beserkers get "Berserk-Rage" which makes you immune to tons of nasty stuff (imprisonment, fear...). Kensais are a little better at fighting and not being able to wear armor is a non issue when you switch to a class that isn't using Armor anway  .Rangers switching to Clerics get tons of Druid spells on top. Barbarians get even more HP than fighters and a stat boosting rage. On top of that your basically the same as a pure Mage when it comes to casting, just with way more HP. As for "true" Dualclassing (this really shines in parties with less than 6 members because you get more exp). Fighter/Mage just synergizes well... You can buff yourself up like mad later so you will be nearly as good as a fighter as a pure one and have TONS of defensive spells that make you even harder to kill. Fighter/Thief is just fighting better as a thief while still getting enough points to make backstabs and stuff. You won't have enough thievepoints to be good at everything, but more than enough to be good enough at the important ones (pick locks, find traps, hide/backstabstuff, traps, detect invisibility... You just have to pick what you want to be good at). + you later get the overpowered TOB abilities from 2 classes which give you some fun stuff to work with (a Fighter/Thief: timestop trap + greater whirlwinds.. lol)... | ||
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Irratonalys
Germany902 Posts
I never understood why dualclassing character work. If you stop developing for example your fighter skills lvl 9 and then continue as a mage wont you just be a gimped fighter and a gimped mage? Why are they any good? dual class is basically a way to have your cake and eat it too. For Example , your characters only get their full hit point bonus on level up until level 12 i think (a bug) afterwards every class just gets the same small bonus. so if you dual class lets say berserker/mage , you can level the first 12 levels as berserker and get the high d10 hitpoint-bonus each level , then you switch to mage and (including ToB) youll still be able to reach the highest level spells another Example would be Kensai/Mage , you cant wear armor as a Kensai , but as a Mage , you will have several spells to offset this infraction (ghost armor , stoneskin) | ||
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