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On August 08 2011 01:42 UdderChaos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 23:42 Manit0u wrote:On August 07 2011 18:25 Shinobi1982 wrote:On August 07 2011 09:00 Manit0u wrote:First of all, GW is not (and never was) WoW and that's why so many people liked it. It had different engine and mechanics and that was fine. I really don't get it how can someone prefer this: ![[image loading]](http://manaflask.com/images/galleries/scaled_1310491053_hilariousWoWui%5B1%5D.jpg) Over this: ![[image loading]](http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/313/gw0111ui.jpg) GW UI is far superior to WoW, thanks to the simplicity of it. Also, the ability to pick only 8 skills means that you need to be smart and possess considerable knowledge about the game when you want to be successful at later stages (picking skills that work well with each other and will work best for the role you're going to take). Weapon switching has always been a big factor in GW, especially in PvP where you usually had 2 sets, each with different damage type so you could bypass physical/elemental armour according to the situation. Why the fuck are people trying to compare everything to WoW and then bitch and whine when it's not the same. If you want WoW than go and play WoW by the gods. Nice wow ui example, hahah Or you can have something like .... ![[image loading]](http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/270/comud2.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/8345/raid2zu6.jpg) You have all the information you need and it still looks better than GW ui, lol. No that is not my screenshot but I did use the same ui (with minor tweaks) back in the day when I played. The WoW UI screenshot was provided by the person who wrote the article. He claimed that it's better because it requires more skill... Yes, it was me who made that post on the other forums. You put the ... as if the logic doesn't hold, whats hard to understand about more skills = more skill required. It's pretty simple logic and maths. Yes the game being fun and not overly complicated does come into it, which i addressed in my post if you read it.
okay I played WoW for quite some time and it may have been some time ago so correct me if i'm wrong but dont restro druids in pve raids spam the same like 1-2 spells over and over? That doesn't seem to require that much skill lol..
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Yes, and Priests use 2-4 depending on how they're setup, and Paladins use 1. But good healers in the game know how to conserve mana by using lower ranks of certain spells too so you may see 2-3 copies of the same skill in a single bar.
Healing isn't complicated in WoW, its very boring and easy. It doesn't get very much more interesting in PvP.
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I can't believe you're even talking about wow.
Ever played resto druid PvP? Almost every single button on the keyboard is bound to something.
And then when you switch forms you have another set of abilities for that to!
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On August 08 2011 05:36 Klive5ive wrote:
I can't believe you're even talking about wow.
Ever played resto druid PvP? Almost every single button on the keyboard is bound to something.
And then when you switch forms you have another set of abilities for that to!
I played resto druid in wotlk, Basically you used something like 12 spells (including all forms). It basically only came down to timings on cyclone and spamming heals while running around and using bear for stun.
If you look at DotA on the other hand most heroes had 4 spells. Yet it is incredibly complex.
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On August 08 2011 04:05 Chuiu wrote:
Yes, and Priests use 2-4 depending on how they're setup, and Paladins use 1. But good healers in the game know how to conserve mana by using lower ranks of certain spells too so you may see 2-3 copies of the same skill in a single bar.
Healing isn't complicated in WoW, its very boring and easy. It doesn't get very much more interesting in PvP.
I guess you haven't been playing for a while, have you?
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On August 08 2011 07:00 Eppa! wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 05:36 Klive5ive wrote:
I can't believe you're even talking about wow.
Ever played resto druid PvP? Almost every single button on the keyboard is bound to something.
And then when you switch forms you have another set of abilities for that to! I played resto druid in wotlk, Basically you used something like 12 spells (including all forms). It basically only came down to timings on cyclone and spamming heals while running around and using bear for stun. If you look at DotA on the other hand most heroes had 4 spells. Yet it is incredibly complex.
Yea I played in Season 3, or maybe it was 4 idk, but you really didn't use many spells, the only "complexity" present was in positioning and timing. Even that was like nothing compared to the complexity of an RTS like Starcraft though, or even a Moba like DoTa.
I just really think trying to claim WoW is complex is like trying to claim a tree is tall when you've got a skyscraper right next to it that would be the complexity of strategy games.
I don't really think MMO's are built to be complex anyways in terms of gameplay. The only real challenge of MMO's comes from teamwork and group organization/coordination. From the perspective of a single person doing their individual role, it's really simple (relatively speaking).
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On August 08 2011 07:12 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
I don't really think MMO's are built to be complex anyways in terms of gameplay. The only real challenge of MMO's comes from teamwork and group organization/coordination. From the perspective of a single person doing their individual role, it's really simple (relatively speaking).
This is the best post in this entire discussion, its all about teamwork and stratagy
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wrath moonfire moonfirerank1 roots rejuve regrowth FF removecurse innervate MotW hibernate barkskin lifebloom tranquility lifebloom swiftmend NS trinket drink/food racial(shadowmeld)
Bearform: frenzied regen, charge, bash,
Catform: prowl, claw, sprint
Travelform
That's almost 30 abilities most of which are used every game (all need bindings certainly) and I might have missed some.
That's a hell of a lot more than 10. And actually most players couldn't use all those abilities correctly and that's what set the top top druids apart from the average ones.
Edit: I'm not saying that that is the only factor in arena, obviously team play is important too. But to trivialise the quick and effective use of all those skills I don't understand.
Maybe we're talking about different stages in the life of WoW and it got easier later on.
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okay I played WoW for quite some time and it may have been some time ago so correct me if i'm wrong but dont restro druids in pve raids spam the same like 1-2 spells over and over? That doesn't seem to require that much skill lol..
In PvP it certainly was a lot more. In PvE, it was a little more too...
Not quite 1-2... closer to 4-5 frequent ones, with 3-4 situational ones.
I played a resto druid in Cata and WoTLK as one of my alts. It was the only healing class I enjoyed playing in fact. In WoTLK healing was a joke since you never had to worry about mana (you could afford to roll all your HoTs on your group all the time). Cata forced healers to have to consider mana usage, which was a good change. Either way, in both WoTLK and Cataclysm, playing as a resto druid required more varied healing than the other classes. 1-2 spells would not cut it.
My memory is hazy with WoTLK healing specifics, but I remember frequently casting
* Rejuvenation (instacast HoT)
* Regrowth (instacast HoT)
* Swiftmend (requires a HoT on the target)
* Wild Growth (instacast AOE heal)
* Lifebloom (instacast HoT that could be stacked up to 3 times)
For purposes of mana conservation, Cata resto druid was mostly casting
* Lifebloom (could only be used on one target now, and keeping it up 100% is extremely important)
* Nourish (slow casting, minor heal, but used little mana and refreshed the duration of Lifebloom)
* Wild growth (instacast AOE heal)
Perhaps that's the 1-2 you were referring to? However you would never keep a raid up with just those. The rest of the spells were situational but certainly not unimportant. Very frequently, healing your group was about constant decision making. I'm not saying it was terribly difficult, but point being, you had to make correct decisions or suffer from running out of mana and/or "letting" your group die. Decision-making healing was mostly
* Regrowth (very expensive HoT, but very useful when you had a proc that allowed the next cast to be mana-free, or just emergency mode healing)
* Swiftmend (the area where swiftmend is cast becomes a small AOE HoT zone due to Efflorecense)
* Rejuvenation (expensive instacast HoT - although it could be rolled on multiple targets, it often would drain your mana way too quickly doing that. Generally just keep this on whichever tank is about to take the most damage)
Moving from WoTLK resto druid healing to Cata healing was a major change to say the least. After a few hours of practicing the different scenarios through various encounters it became fairly simple and repetitive though. Nonetheless, being a healer carried a lot of responsibility. When DPS screw up, the enemy just takes a little longer to kill usually, and healers have to pick up the slack with more damage taken on everyone. When a healer screws up, they can wipe the party. Oh, and when a party member dies for any reason (your fault, their fault, another member's fault, server lag, etc), you would have some dickhead get on your case.
Uhm... enjoy that wall o' text? It probably will only make sense to someone who already played resto druid now that I think about it lol .
TLDR: Resto druid healing in WoW required more than 1-2 skills to effectively heal your group.
I welcome the changes in GW2 to healing. I felt like I lost my immersion in the game when I was looking at health bars over 95% of the time. Healing in past MMOs were like a mini puzzle game without many variations while you responded to changes in health bars. By sharing the responsibility of "support" utility spells amongst the members, I think it will bring some much needed changes to MMO combat
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And suddenly the wow players come out the woodwork.
(in a dark voice...)
"Join the GW2 Fanbase.... and the darkside..."
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On August 08 2011 11:33 EscPlan9 wrote:Show nested quote +okay I played WoW for quite some time and it may have been some time ago so correct me if i'm wrong but dont restro druids in pve raids spam the same like 1-2 spells over and over? That doesn't seem to require that much skill lol.. ..snip.. I welcome the changes in GW2 to healing. I felt like I lost my immersion in the game when I was looking at health bars over 95% of the time. Healing in past MMOs were like a mini puzzle game without many variations while you responded to changes in health bars. By sharing the responsibility of "support" utility spells amongst the members, I think it will bring some much needed changes to MMO combat
If you were looking at healthbars 95% of the time in Guild Wars you were doing it wrong, at least in PvP.
In PvP it is important to cast your protective spells (for example Guardian) on the target before the opponents got the first hit off, which is especially important against spikes but also against pressure. You have to have a perfect battlefield awareness and keep an eye on both opposing warriors at the same time.
You don't want to use your big healing or protection skills on targets that aren't actually under attack anymore but instead make sure you cast Aura of Stability the moment you see the warrior lifting the hammer for the knockdown or Guardian the moment you see both warriors converging on a single target.
If you start to cast a healing spell when the spike is already in progress, the target is already dead when it finished 0.75 seconds later. You can't play reactively at high level (My guild got to rank #300 2 years ago and even there, you couldn't play reactively and watch the red bars).
At the same time you have to:
- Watch out for your own warriors that might overextend and get sniped
- Feign spells to draw the big interrupts from the mesmer (Powerblock, Powerleak)
- Cancel spells if you get a Diversion or Shame, which sometimes requires reacting in < 0.5 seconds because good mesmers try to align those hexes with your casting pattern
- Protect your flagrunner as soon as he moves in to place the flag and refresh the spells constantly until he is out of range again
- Listen to the other monk to remove the hexes blocking him (i.e. Diversion and Shame) to remove them as fast as possible
- Position yourself as far away from the team while still close enough to heal and protect everyone to increase the time the other Warriors need to target switch
- Stay on the Low-Energy Set (~5-6 spells before your energy is empty if you cast carelessly) as much as possible to prevent the mesmers from draining it and to make sure that if you die and get rezzed, you start with as much energy as possible. If your energy gets low, switch all the time to stay as short as possible on the higher energy sets and still have enough energy to cast all the spells
Battlefield awareness and positioning are the difference between bad monks and good monks. Bad monks mostly use their "Red bars go up" Skills, Good monks primarily use their "Red bars don't go down" Skills.
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On August 08 2011 16:22 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 11:33 EscPlan9 wrote:okay I played WoW for quite some time and it may have been some time ago so correct me if i'm wrong but dont restro druids in pve raids spam the same like 1-2 spells over and over? That doesn't seem to require that much skill lol.. ..snip.. I welcome the changes in GW2 to healing. I felt like I lost my immersion in the game when I was looking at health bars over 95% of the time. Healing in past MMOs were like a mini puzzle game without many variations while you responded to changes in health bars. By sharing the responsibility of "support" utility spells amongst the members, I think it will bring some much needed changes to MMO combat If you were looking at healthbars 95% of the time in Guild Wars you were doing it wrong, at least in PvP. In PvP it is important to cast your protective spells (for example Guardian) on the target before the opponents got the first hit off, which is especially important against spikes but also against pressure. You have to have a perfect battlefield awareness and keep an eye on both opposing warriors at the same time. You don't want to use your big healing or protection skills on targets that aren't actually under attack anymore but instead make sure you cast Aura of Stability the moment you see the warrior lifting the hammer for the knockdown or Guardian the moment you see both warriors converging on a single target. If you start to cast a healing spell when the spike is already in progress, the target is already dead when it finished 0.75 seconds later. You can't play reactively at high level (My guild got to rank #300 2 years ago and even there, you couldn't play reactively and watch the red bars). At the same time you have to: - Watch out for your own warriors that might overextend and get sniped - Feign spells to draw the big interrupts from the mesmer (Powerblock, Powerleak) - Cancel spells if you get a Diversion or Shame, which sometimes requires reacting in < 0.5 seconds because good mesmers try to align those hexes with your casting pattern - Protect your flagrunner as soon as he moves in to place the flag and refresh the spells constantly until he is out of range again - Listen to the other monk to remove the hexes blocking him (i.e. Diversion and Shame) to remove them as fast as possible - Position yourself as far away from the team while still close enough to heal and protect everyone to increase the time the other Warriors need to target switch - Stay on the Low-Energy Set (~5-6 spells before your energy is empty if you cast carelessly) as much as possible to prevent the mesmers from draining it and to make sure that if you die and get rezzed, you start with as much energy as possible. If your energy gets low, switch all the time to stay as short as possible on the higher energy sets and still have enough energy to cast all the spells Battlefield awareness and positioning are the difference between bad monks and good monks. Bad monks mostly use their "Red bars go up" Skills, Good monks primarily use their "Red bars don't go down" Skills.
All you said is, in Reality, this:
+ Show Spoiler +"Hey get on teambuilder we have this new build I worked on the last 2 weeks."
"Oh yea what does it look like? ... *looks for build*
Okay, I can make the healer."
"Okay, do it."
*adjusts skills, adjusts equip*
"k, ready to go."
"Everyone ready?"
"Yea!"
*caller calls target and counts*
*look at healthbars, heal accordingly*
repeat 10 times
oh, he's suddenly getting ALOT of dmg, I should infuse.
*infuses*
*someone flames because infuse is always too late*
*look at healthbars, heal accordingly*
repeat 10 times
oh, he's bleeding
*caller calls target and counts*
*heals it*
oh, now he gets much dmg again
*infuses*
*someone flames*
>>>Oh wait, I can be hit there by this ranger. He interrupts me. *flames mesmer, runs away*<<<
*look at healthbars, heal accordingly*
Yayz0r you won mat.
Also, you didn't quite get the difference between the prot and the healer, right? Basically the prot uses these "red bar not going down skills" why the healer is there if the protter fails to do so, using his "red bar going up" skills.
Well, this might be exciting. For somone. Like, for some WoW players or so since it's the same thing there (only with more bars to look at and they all appear on your screen like "DUDE PUT THAT PIZZA AWAY AND PRESS 3 NOW K?")
But compare this to starcraft ... Seriously? This is just a joke...
I played GW PvP for a loong time but in comparison to starcraft, or even a game like DAoC that didn't even have the FULL intention to become that competetive, it's just bad.
I don't see why this pattern would change in Guild Wars 2. I'm always open to new stuff, but after all, even if they change all that, it's just another problem they run into due to their own limitations that are still horrendous.
You heard it here first:
Guild Wars 2 will all be about graphics, atmosphere, sound and lore. And their "unique" system that will most probably turn out to be flawed and boring - as everything ArenaNet does. Dungeons? Well, look at the EOTN Dungeons... I bet my arse that they will be as boring as these.
I was so hoping for GW2 to be the next awesome MMO but man...just look at the stuff they talk about. Did you hear anything good besides graphics, nice sounds, atmosphere, world lore and all that crap? Gameplay became so unimportant for them it's sad.
We don't even know how the PvP is going to work yet(like the WvW) or what they do about other stuff. All we know are the name of the classes, some skills, their system of PvE(not to it's full extent though) and how awesome the graphics are. And man, do they like their graphics.
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On August 08 2011 17:36 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 16:22 Morfildur wrote:On August 08 2011 11:33 EscPlan9 wrote:okay I played WoW for quite some time and it may have been some time ago so correct me if i'm wrong but dont restro druids in pve raids spam the same like 1-2 spells over and over? That doesn't seem to require that much skill lol.. ..snip.. I welcome the changes in GW2 to healing. I felt like I lost my immersion in the game when I was looking at health bars over 95% of the time. Healing in past MMOs were like a mini puzzle game without many variations while you responded to changes in health bars. By sharing the responsibility of "support" utility spells amongst the members, I think it will bring some much needed changes to MMO combat If you were looking at healthbars 95% of the time in Guild Wars you were doing it wrong, at least in PvP. In PvP it is important to cast your protective spells (for example Guardian) on the target before the opponents got the first hit off, which is especially important against spikes but also against pressure. You have to have a perfect battlefield awareness and keep an eye on both opposing warriors at the same time. You don't want to use your big healing or protection skills on targets that aren't actually under attack anymore but instead make sure you cast Aura of Stability the moment you see the warrior lifting the hammer for the knockdown or Guardian the moment you see both warriors converging on a single target. If you start to cast a healing spell when the spike is already in progress, the target is already dead when it finished 0.75 seconds later. You can't play reactively at high level (My guild got to rank #300 2 years ago and even there, you couldn't play reactively and watch the red bars). At the same time you have to: - Watch out for your own warriors that might overextend and get sniped - Feign spells to draw the big interrupts from the mesmer (Powerblock, Powerleak) - Cancel spells if you get a Diversion or Shame, which sometimes requires reacting in < 0.5 seconds because good mesmers try to align those hexes with your casting pattern - Protect your flagrunner as soon as he moves in to place the flag and refresh the spells constantly until he is out of range again - Listen to the other monk to remove the hexes blocking him (i.e. Diversion and Shame) to remove them as fast as possible - Position yourself as far away from the team while still close enough to heal and protect everyone to increase the time the other Warriors need to target switch - Stay on the Low-Energy Set (~5-6 spells before your energy is empty if you cast carelessly) as much as possible to prevent the mesmers from draining it and to make sure that if you die and get rezzed, you start with as much energy as possible. If your energy gets low, switch all the time to stay as short as possible on the higher energy sets and still have enough energy to cast all the spells Battlefield awareness and positioning are the difference between bad monks and good monks. Bad monks mostly use their "Red bars go up" Skills, Good monks primarily use their "Red bars don't go down" Skills. All you said is, in Reality, this: + Show Spoiler +"Hey get on teambuilder we have this new build I worked on the last 2 weeks."
"Oh yea what does it look like? ... *looks for build*
Okay, I can make the healer."
"Okay, do it."
*adjusts skills, adjusts equip*
"k, ready to go."
"Everyone ready?"
"Yea!"
*caller calls target and counts*
*look at healthbars, heal accordingly*
repeat 10 times
oh, he's suddenly getting ALOT of dmg, I should infuse.
*infuses*
*someone flames because infuse is always too late*
*look at healthbars, heal accordingly*
repeat 10 times
oh, he's bleeding
*caller calls target and counts*
*heals it*
oh, now he gets much dmg again
*infuses*
*someone flames*
>>>Oh wait, I can be hit there by this ranger. He interrupts me. *flames mesmer, runs away*<<<
*look at healthbars, heal accordingly* Yayz0r you won mat. Also, you didn't quite get the difference between the prot and the healer, right? Basically the prot uses these "red bar not going down skills" why the healer is there if the protter fails to do so, using his "red bar going up" skills. Well, this might be exciting. For somone. Like, for some WoW players or so since it's the same thing there (only with more bars to look at and they all appear on your screen like "DUDE PUT THAT PIZZA AWAY AND PRESS 3 NOW K?") But compare this to starcraft ... Seriously? This is just a joke... I played GW PvP for a loong time but in comparison to starcraft, or even a game like DAoC that didn't even have the FULL intention to become that competetive, it's just bad. I don't see why this pattern would change in Guild Wars 2. I'm always open to new stuff, but after all, even if they change all that, it's just another problem they run into due to their own limitations that are still horrendous.
We seem to have played a different Guild Wars then or you played in lower ranked guilds, because playing a monk that way would never work against any good opponent.
Also, maybe it has changed, but when i played, the healers were hybrid monks with 2 protection skills, usually protective spirit and guardian and the main difference (except for the different focus in how you use the skills) to the protection monk was that the healer had word of healing and cure hex, the prot monk restore condition and aura of stability, otherwise both monks were quite similar and both monks had to cast their protection skills (especially when the prot monk called "diversion on guardian").
Well, i played GvGs for 3 years but stopped playing 2 years ago, maybe it changed in the mean time and skill deteriorated. At least random arenas seem to have gotten a lot easier.
Wish i could try my hand in a GvG again, it sucks that everyone i knew in GW stopped playing around the same time i stopped (was a chain reaction, half of the guys finished university, so GvG team lost a few core players, new recruits sucked, the others left due to lack of GvG and a losing spree, ...)
EDIT:
But you are right about everyone flaming all other classes :p
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On August 08 2011 17:36 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 16:22 Morfildur wrote:On August 08 2011 11:33 EscPlan9 wrote:okay I played WoW for quite some time and it may have been some time ago so correct me if i'm wrong but dont restro druids in pve raids spam the same like 1-2 spells over and over? That doesn't seem to require that much skill lol.. ..snip.. I welcome the changes in GW2 to healing. I felt like I lost my immersion in the game when I was looking at health bars over 95% of the time. Healing in past MMOs were like a mini puzzle game without many variations while you responded to changes in health bars. By sharing the responsibility of "support" utility spells amongst the members, I think it will bring some much needed changes to MMO combat If you were looking at healthbars 95% of the time in Guild Wars you were doing it wrong, at least in PvP. In PvP it is important to cast your protective spells (for example Guardian) on the target before the opponents got the first hit off, which is especially important against spikes but also against pressure. You have to have a perfect battlefield awareness and keep an eye on both opposing warriors at the same time. You don't want to use your big healing or protection skills on targets that aren't actually under attack anymore but instead make sure you cast Aura of Stability the moment you see the warrior lifting the hammer for the knockdown or Guardian the moment you see both warriors converging on a single target. If you start to cast a healing spell when the spike is already in progress, the target is already dead when it finished 0.75 seconds later. You can't play reactively at high level (My guild got to rank #300 2 years ago and even there, you couldn't play reactively and watch the red bars). At the same time you have to: - Watch out for your own warriors that might overextend and get sniped - Feign spells to draw the big interrupts from the mesmer (Powerblock, Powerleak) - Cancel spells if you get a Diversion or Shame, which sometimes requires reacting in < 0.5 seconds because good mesmers try to align those hexes with your casting pattern - Protect your flagrunner as soon as he moves in to place the flag and refresh the spells constantly until he is out of range again - Listen to the other monk to remove the hexes blocking him (i.e. Diversion and Shame) to remove them as fast as possible - Position yourself as far away from the team while still close enough to heal and protect everyone to increase the time the other Warriors need to target switch - Stay on the Low-Energy Set (~5-6 spells before your energy is empty if you cast carelessly) as much as possible to prevent the mesmers from draining it and to make sure that if you die and get rezzed, you start with as much energy as possible. If your energy gets low, switch all the time to stay as short as possible on the higher energy sets and still have enough energy to cast all the spells Battlefield awareness and positioning are the difference between bad monks and good monks. Bad monks mostly use their "Red bars go up" Skills, Good monks primarily use their "Red bars don't go down" Skills. All you said is, in Reality, this: + Show Spoiler +"Hey get on teambuilder we have this new build I worked on the last 2 weeks."
"Oh yea what does it look like? ... *looks for build*
Okay, I can make the healer."
"Okay, do it."
*adjusts skills, adjusts equip*
"k, ready to go."
"Everyone ready?"
"Yea!"
*caller calls target and counts*
*look at healthbars, heal accordingly*
repeat 10 times
oh, he's suddenly getting ALOT of dmg, I should infuse.
*infuses*
*someone flames because infuse is always too late*
*look at healthbars, heal accordingly*
repeat 10 times
oh, he's bleeding
*caller calls target and counts*
*heals it*
oh, now he gets much dmg again
*infuses*
*someone flames*
>>>Oh wait, I can be hit there by this ranger. He interrupts me. *flames mesmer, runs away*<<<
*look at healthbars, heal accordingly* Yayz0r you won mat. Also, you didn't quite get the difference between the prot and the healer, right? Basically the prot uses these "red bar not going down skills" why the healer is there if the protter fails to do so, using his "red bar going up" skills. Well, this might be exciting. For somone. Like, for some WoW players or so since it's the same thing there (only with more bars to look at and they all appear on your screen like "DUDE PUT THAT PIZZA AWAY AND PRESS 3 NOW K?") But compare this to starcraft ... Seriously? This is just a joke... I played GW PvP for a loong time but in comparison to starcraft, or even a game like DAoC that didn't even have the FULL intention to become that competetive, it's just bad. I don't see why this pattern would change in Guild Wars 2. I'm always open to new stuff, but after all, even if they change all that, it's just another problem they run into due to their own limitations that are still horrendous. You heard it here first: Guild Wars 2 will all be about graphics, atmosphere, sound and lore. And their "unique" system that will most probably turn out to be flawed and boring - as everything ArenaNet does. Dungeons? Well, look at the EOTN Dungeons... I bet my arse that they will be as boring as these. I was so hoping for GW2 to be the next awesome MMO but man...just look at the stuff they talk about. Did you hear anything good besides graphics, nice sounds, atmosphere, world lore and all that crap? Gameplay became so unimportant for them it's sad. We don't even know how the PvP is going to work yet(like the WvW) or what they do about other stuff. All we know are the name of the classes, some skills, their system of PvE(not to it's full extent though) and how awesome the graphics are. And man, do they like their graphics.
Your judging a book by its cover, when there isnt even content inside the book yet to see. Geesh.
Give it a chance bud, at the very least keep an open eye for future info releases.
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On August 08 2011 04:05 Chuiu wrote:
Yes, and Priests use 2-4 depending on how they're setup, and Paladins use 1. But good healers in the game know how to conserve mana by using lower ranks of certain spells too so you may see 2-3 copies of the same skill in a single bar.
Healing isn't complicated in WoW, its very boring and easy. It doesn't get very much more interesting in PvP.
that got changed due to pvp issues, lower ranks cost the same as the top rank spells when unlocked.
(one of the pvp issues was mages spamming rank 1 arcane explosion to uncloak rogues)
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On August 07 2011 08:57 Hakker wrote:
I have a question, what happened to the esport pvp scene of the original guildwars? I remember when i played the game had a pretty hardcore PvP base and remembered reading about tournaments and stuff like that all the time. Did Anet basically stop supporting the esports scene or did the players just move on?
After the factions world championship they announced the Nightfall version, but changed their mind cancelling the WC series in favor of monthly automatized tournaments. They ran for ~1,5 years with real life prizes(digital cameras, Ipods, gfx cards, gift certificates) until they cut support and substituted real life rewards with in game rewards instead. By that time, most serious competition had already ended.
There was never really a reasoning for discontinuing the WC series other than the obvious, it not being profitable. However they never really made the best of their huge tournaments either. The PR job was terrible and a huge documentary about it was left basically unpublished and unknown.
Sad story.
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On August 08 2011 16:22 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 11:33 EscPlan9 wrote:okay I played WoW for quite some time and it may have been some time ago so correct me if i'm wrong but dont restro druids in pve raids spam the same like 1-2 spells over and over? That doesn't seem to require that much skill lol.. ..snip.. I welcome the changes in GW2 to healing. I felt like I lost my immersion in the game when I was looking at health bars over 95% of the time. Healing in past MMOs were like a mini puzzle game without many variations while you responded to changes in health bars. By sharing the responsibility of "support" utility spells amongst the members, I think it will bring some much needed changes to MMO combat If you were looking at healthbars 95% of the time in Guild Wars you were doing it wrong, at least in PvP. (snip...)
I was specifically referring to WoW PvE the entire time. I assumed WoW healing was similar to any other MMO that uses the "holy trinity" of tank, heal, dps.
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For those who watched the Blizzard EU Invitationals and happened to catch a glimpse of the WoW arena matches, I have to say that I hope GW2 PvP doesn't turn out to be such a (excuse my language) clusterf**k as WoW arena atm is. I've played the game for years, even rated high on arena and it was hard for me to follow everything while enjoying it. I think that's the crucial part; I can understand what's going on and focus really hard but then forget about the enjoyment in taking in the atmosphere, the commentary and everything around it.
I'm sure we already had the discussion of GW2 hoping to be an enjoyable viewing experience ESPORTS wise but this just came to my mind after seeing those matches. I've never really played GW1 and certainly didn't PvP in GW1 but I hope that things will be much, much clearer in GW2.
Which also, in my opinion, fits into the discussion you're having about (the quantity of) skills atm. To be honest, I don't agree with the notion that more skills always equals to more difficulty; in addition when it comes to observing, having less skills is going to be more beneficial to the viewing experience. You can make things out faster and everything gets more clear at every given moment.
So really, do you lose some possibilites when you only have a couple of skills compared to plenty? I mean, sure. But does it also have huge benefits? I would dare say, yes. Not only to the gamer (making strategic builds, coordinating them with your mates, get the most out of them) but to the viewers as well. This is all theory, of course, for I haven't played the game yet. But people who did seemed to like it. I guess we'll have to see.
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On August 08 2011 22:47 Avius wrote:
For those who watched the Blizzard EU Invitationals and happened to catch a glimpse of the WoW arena matches, I have to say that I hope GW2 PvP doesn't turn out to be such a (excuse my language) clusterf**k as WoW arena atm is. I've played the game for years, even rated high on arena and it was hard for me to follow everything while enjoying it. I think that's the crucial part; I can understand what's going on and focus really hard but then forget about the enjoyment in taking in the atmosphere, the commentary and everything around it.
I'm sure we already had the discussion of GW2 hoping to be an enjoyable viewing experience ESPORTS wise but this just came to my mind after seeing those matches. I've never really played GW1 and certainly didn't PvP in GW1 but I hope that things will be much, much clearer in GW2.
Which also, in my opinion, fits into the discussion you're having about (the quantity of) skills atm. To be honest, I don't agree with the notion that more skills always equals to more difficulty; in addition when it comes to observing, having less skills is going to be more beneficial to the viewing experience. You can make things out faster and everything gets more clear at every given moment.
So really, do you lose some possibilites when you only have a couple of skills compared to plenty? I mean, sure. But does it also have huge benefits? I would dare say, yes. Not only to the gamer (making strategic builds, coordinating them with your mates, get the most out of them) but to the viewers as well. This is all theory, of course, for I haven't played the game yet. But people who did seemed to like it. I guess we'll have to see.
I don't think any of these first person multi-skill games will ever be good Esports.
They're far too difficult to understand what's going on.
As Day9 is always saying you need to understand the game to appreciate the skill moves. In Starcraft though it's somewhat intuitive. In GW unless you already played the game at a very high level the vast majority of what effects games is lost on you.
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EPT
