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Manit0u
Poland17450 Posts
On August 07 2011 12:59 gamerkhang wrote: Anyone wanna start new characters in GW1? I'm pretty bored of waiting for GW2. I might install GW again and run around with you. Should still have some lowbie chars. Which campaign you'd like to start in? Prophecies? | ||
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Rhodry
Germany104 Posts
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Shinobi1982
1605 Posts
On August 07 2011 09:00 Manit0u wrote: First of all, GW is not (and never was) WoW and that's why so many people liked it. It had different engine and mechanics and that was fine. I really don't get it how can someone prefer this: ![[image loading]](http://manaflask.com/images/galleries/scaled_1310491053_hilariousWoWui%5B1%5D.jpg) Over this: ![[image loading]](http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/313/gw0111ui.jpg) GW UI is far superior to WoW, thanks to the simplicity of it. Also, the ability to pick only 8 skills means that you need to be smart and possess considerable knowledge about the game when you want to be successful at later stages (picking skills that work well with each other and will work best for the role you're going to take). Weapon switching has always been a big factor in GW, especially in PvP where you usually had 2 sets, each with different damage type so you could bypass physical/elemental armour according to the situation. Why the fuck are people trying to compare everything to WoW and then bitch and whine when it's not the same. If you want WoW than go and play WoW by the gods. Nice wow ui example, hahah Or you can have something like .... ![[image loading]](http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/270/comud2.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/8345/raid2zu6.jpg) You have all the information you need and it still looks better than GW ui, lol. No that is not my screenshot but I did use the same ui (with minor tweaks) back in the day when I played. | ||
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Lonniehaskel
United States37 Posts
On August 07 2011 17:59 Rhodry wrote: I wonderd if the TL guild is for NA only ? Sorry if the information is obvious but I read through the topic twice and couldnt find it ^^ We have many many Euro players who would love some more company. :D | ||
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.vid
Croatia227 Posts
 if you accept euro players I'd be more then interested Character is Dee Izm  | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17450 Posts
On August 07 2011 18:25 Shinobi1982 wrote: Nice wow ui example, hahah Or you can have something like .... You have all the information you need and it still looks better than GW ui, lol. No that is not my screenshot but I did use the same ui (with minor tweaks) back in the day when I played. The WoW UI screenshot was provided by the person who wrote the article. He claimed that it's better because it requires more skill... | ||
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EscPlan9
United States2777 Posts
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NoobieOne
United States1183 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [ rant on an example] + At the point in the game that I am going to be basing this on there were 3 choices, Life Sheath (a spell that negates the next x amount of damage over a small period of time) Divert Hexes (a skill that removes some hexes from a target and heals for the amount of hexes removed), and Restore Condition (a skill that removes all conditions from the target and heals for each condition removed). When choosing which you use you have to think about what beats your build. If your build has a lot of squishy roles that take a lot of damage from spikes then Life Sheath might be the best option due to the fact that it stops spikes and the casters are less worried about the pressure based builds that rely on conditions and hexes. The conditions and hexes that do effect the build can be handled by removal elsewhere. If your build is melee heavy and want the edge against builds that might try to exploit that then Restore Condition is the best choice due to the ability to remove blind and weakness from your melee and to stop opposing melee's conditions. If your build has nothing really holding back the hex based pressure builds then Divert Hexes is the right choice. Overall choosing skills and making the most of the skills you had was what made GW1 very challenging. Think of it as build orders in Starcraft. A player who uses his units with amazing micro and great decisions in game but doesn't have a good refined build order might still loose to someone with worse mechanics but a very well refined build order and then a 1a timing attack. This is really what separates Guild Wars from WoW in pvp, WoW focuses all on the player skill and mechanical decisions because each character can potentially handle all situations that he is put in that the role is expected to handle(assuming that all gear is equal). While Guild Wars comes to creating a balanced build that can handle every situation as well as player skill. Another option was to play mind games and come out with a "cheese" build that tries to exploit some weakness, for example a ranger spike or a heavy dedicated split. I am not saying that one is better than the other, I am just saying that they are different and the GW1 standpoint was not supported enough in this discussion on skills and options. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17450 Posts
On August 08 2011 00:17 NoobieOne wrote: I don't really see how having more skills means more skill. The biggest part of GW1 strategy wise was choosing the skills you will use. As GW1 developed people realized the power of builds and because the actual positioning and moving in MMOs isn't really that hard to pick up (you can do it with only a couple of months of practice if you are playing competitively, the winners of games came down to what skills you use and how you use them. For example, the easiest version of this to explain is what elite do you take on your prot monk. + Show Spoiler [ rant on an example] + At the point in the game that I am going to be basing this on there were 3 choices, Life Sheath (a spell that negates the next x amount of damage over a small period of time) Divert Hexes (a skill that removes some hexes from a target and heals for the amount of hexes removed), and Restore Condition (a skill that removes all conditions from the target and heals for each condition removed). When choosing which you use you have to think about what beats your build. If your build has a lot of squishy roles that take a lot of damage from spikes then Life Sheath might be the best option due to the fact that it stops spikes and the casters are less worried about the pressure based builds that rely on conditions and hexes. The conditions and hexes that do effect the build can be handled by removal elsewhere. If your build is melee heavy and want the edge against builds that might try to exploit that then Restore Condition is the best choice due to the ability to remove blind and weakness from your melee and to stop opposing melee's conditions. If your build has nothing really holding back the hex based pressure builds then Divert Hexes is the right choice. Overall choosing skills and making the most of the skills you had was what made GW1 very challenging. Think of it as build orders in Starcraft. A player who uses his units with amazing micro and great decisions in game but doesn't have a good refined build order might still loose to someone with worse mechanics but a very well refined build order and then a 1a timing attack. This is really what separates Guild Wars from WoW in pvp, WoW focuses all on the player skill and mechanical decisions because each character can potentially handle all situations that he is put in that the role is expected to handle(assuming that all gear is equal). While Guild Wars comes to creating a balanced build that can handle every situation as well as player skill. Another option was to play mind games and come out with a "cheese" build that tries to exploit some weakness, for example a ranger spike or a heavy dedicated split. I am not saying that one is better than the other, I am just saying that they are different and the GW1 standpoint was not supported enough in this discussion on skills and options. Excellent post. Another thing I'd add to it though, would be the importance of skill selections in GvG environment, where you had to not only choose the best skillset for your character but also one that combines best with other people on your team to create some really good combos and ability to mitigate whatever nasty tricks your enemies might throw at you. Your team might be well protected from spikes but when you meet degen spam you're going to suffer. Key here is to create a well-rounded and strong combination with limited choices. | ||
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NoobieOne
United States1183 Posts
On August 08 2011 00:40 Manit0u wrote: Excellent post. Another thing I'd add to it though, would be the importance of skill selections in GvG environment, where you had to not only choose the best skillset for your character but also one that combines best with other people on your team to create some really good combos and ability to mitigate whatever nasty tricks your enemies might throw at you. Your team might be well protected from spikes but when you meet degen spam you're going to suffer. Key here is to create a well-rounded and strong combination with limited choices. I agree 100% Hence when I was talking about what beats your team. Normally if there is no other factors on healing or specialized skills against other group composition Split>Spike Balanced>Split Pressure>Balanced Spike>Pressure However, each of those builds takes something to stop that which can beat it, for example in a pressure build you might start seeing a ranger or a Mesmer who has a few skills that will interrupt the spike or a spike build will have a person who has a few self heals that can go and defend against a 1-2 man spit. However, a spike team doesn't need any skills that stop a pressure team like mass hex removal because your team should have a favorable matchup as it is. | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
Well, i casted some GvGs just in case to give my 6 subscribers a counterexample of how _good_ MMO PvP looks, but i'm still wondering how it could be possible that there is no caster to be found I really hope GW2 PvP will not look that boring/bad. | ||
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aLuLz
Germany175 Posts
On August 08 2011 01:28 Morfildur wrote: After watching the Blizzard EU WoW Arena stuff, i wondered if there are any casted Guild wars games but couldn't find any. Does anyone here know a Guild Wars caster? Well, i casted some GvGs just in case to give my 6 subscribers a counterexample of how _good_ MMO PvP looks, but i'm still wondering how it could be possible that there is no caster to be found I really hope GW2 PvP will not look that boring/bad. If its like all the PvE it will take a long time for a fight to end. I'm really looking forward to it. Hopefully it will be balanced and fun! | ||
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LTT
Shakuras1095 Posts
On August 08 2011 01:28 Morfildur wrote: After watching the Blizzard EU WoW Arena stuff, i wondered if there are any casted Guild wars games but couldn't find any. Does anyone here know a Guild Wars caster? Well, i casted some GvGs just in case to give my 6 subscribers a counterexample of how _good_ MMO PvP looks, but i'm still wondering how it could be possible that there is no caster to be found I really hope GW2 PvP will not look that boring/bad. http://www.youtube.com/GWGApok | ||
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UdderChaos
United Kingdom707 Posts
On August 07 2011 23:42 Manit0u wrote: The WoW UI screenshot was provided by the person who wrote the article. He claimed that it's better because it requires more skill... Yes, it was me who made that post on the other forums. You put the ... as if the logic doesn't hold, whats hard to understand about more skills = more skill required. It's pretty simple logic and maths. Yes the game being fun and not overly complicated does come into it, which i addressed in my post if you read it. | ||
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nyxnyxnyx
Indonesia2978 Posts
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On August 08 2011 01:53 nyxnyxnyx wrote: are the HoM rewards worth buying and playing guild wars 1 for? if i play it (i'm from singapore), is there anyone in the guild for me to play with / is it even the same region? Guild Wars 1 is always worth it imho, it has a great story - though it's best to play it with friends as most story quests are only for groups and especially in the early areas, it's hard to find groups as there are only few new players (Though there are NPC henchmen to compensate, so it's not too bad). Also: - No Regions - No different Servers - Everyone can play with everyone! | ||
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Logros
Netherlands9913 Posts
On August 08 2011 01:42 UdderChaos wrote: Yes, it was me who made that post on the other forums. You put the ... as if the logic doesn't hold, whats hard to understand about more skills = more skill required. It's pretty simple logic and maths. Yes the game being fun and not overly complicated does come into it, which i addressed in my post if you read it. No it's not, because they're different games. The amount of skills doesn't say anything about how hard they are to use. If you have 50 different kinds of buffs (exaggerated example) that you have to click once an hour to keep up how does that require skill? | ||
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UdderChaos
United Kingdom707 Posts
On August 08 2011 02:00 Logros wrote: No it's not, because they're different games. The amount of skills doesn't say anything about how hard they are to use. If you have 50 different kinds of buffs (exaggerated example) that you have to click once an hour to keep up how does that require skill? Yes it is. Your citing a different variable in this system, which is how useful the skills are, and then hyperboling the situation. If you assume that all skills are just as useful as each other, ie a controlled test, then increasing the number of skills will directly increase the skill level. I dont see why i have defend my post on another forum, when i actually addressed this issue in my original post, please read it. | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On August 08 2011 02:00 Logros wrote: No it's not, because they're different games. The amount of skills doesn't say anything about how hard they are to use. If you have 50 different kinds of buffs (exaggerated example) that you have to click once an hour to keep up how does that require skill? Yes. In Guild Wars, you have to plan ahead and make sure you have every situation covered with all 8 skills (in GvG 64 skills total). Also, GW is a lot faster. Skills in WoW take seconds to cast which is fine because everyone has huge amounts of HP while in GW, it takes less than a second for someone to die. Add to that that buffs in WoW hold for minutes, in GW the longest buff holds for IIRC around 30 seconds (average 5-10 seconds), so you have to pay a lot more attention and if a critical skill gets denied for 10 seconds, it's almost gg (for example distracting shot on Word of Healing in a GvG is deadly... and every Monk is scared if the opponent brings a Powerblock Mesmer that disables all skills of the same type for a few seconds), in WoW you could simply take one of the other healing skills and be fine. In GW every skill counts, you can't bring more than 1-2 healing abilites because then you would lack other abilites (hex remove, condition remove, protective skills, etc.). Well, all in all, they are simply different games. IMHO GW is fast paced and requires a lot of planning before going into anything, WoW is a lot more forgiving and more accessible to newer players. | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
the more spells you have, the more balancing that needs done, yes. what kind of 'skill' are you talking about anyway? in starcraft, you can see the limited amount of abilities in each and every unit, and if you treat MMO pvp something of a cooperative RTS, it really does make each and every ability that much more important on top of positioning and timing it's completely wrong of me to refer to different genre of games altogether, but if we just want to talk about skill in general- what if i were to give every character in streetfighter several more moves and gimmicks on top of what they already have? it doesn't necessarily raise the skill bar, but it's hard enough as it is to execute the simplest moves in the best conditions for what we call 'combos' now i'm not going to go through every game and cite them just because they have certain words tied to them, but i really think it's hard to say when a game will provide a large skill ceiling for competitive players to explore (i don't think guildwars was at all unskillful and such when it came to pvp/arena), because aside from the skills, available classes&combinations, and certain mechanics of a game, there are so many other things that can be added or modded to change the way a game can be used to compete--and it happens all the time in the smallest of steps. i'd more rather concentrate on those aspects than on the foundation of skills&abilities coming from the game company that you know is good about that stuff already : ( | ||
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