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NFL Season 2010 - Page 56

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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
11739 Posts
September 30 2010 18:20 GMT
#1101
On October 01 2010 03:19 zer0das wrote:
I think the Chiefs are legit, but they'll probably bomb out of the playoffs in the first round. At least if their coaching staff doesn't screw them out of 3-4 wins first. I really, really hope the feed the ball to Thomas Jones a ton strategy is just to keep Jamaal Charles fresh for down the stretch.

Even so, Charles was worth where I drafted him. :O

Also, MJD has sucked this year. I wouldn't be surprised if someone traded him. If I thought I could get anything of value for him, I probably would. On the other hand,


So you aren't going to finish that thought?
I'm never gonna know you now \ But I'm gonna love you anyhow.
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
September 30 2010 18:30 GMT
#1102
Is it worth starting a hobbly Andre Johnson against Asomugha? Or should I look another direction?

I have Louis Murphy vs Houston, and Lance Moore vs Carolina available.
God Bless
BroOd
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Austin10833 Posts
September 30 2010 18:34 GMT
#1103
I'm starting Murphy as a WR3, he's got good chemistry with Gradkowski and that Houston secondary isn't good.
ModeratorSIRL and JLIG.
carpola
Profile Joined August 2010
United States168 Posts
September 30 2010 18:36 GMT
#1104
It's tough to pick any of the 4 receives on the Saints. I don't know why, but I drafted Colston this year and although he gives consistent (albeit low) numbers, Brees spreads the ball so much.
SweeTLemonS[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
11739 Posts
September 30 2010 18:54 GMT
#1105
On October 01 2010 03:34 BroOd wrote:
I'm starting Murphy as a WR3, he's got good chemistry with Gradkowski and that Houston secondary isn't good.


Note the 3. I know that number doesn't technically matter, but you have two people in front of him.

If AJ plays, AJ starts, imo. The one time you think he'll have a bad game because of MU or something, he goes off for 25 points.
I'm never gonna know you now \ But I'm gonna love you anyhow.
Musoeun
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States4324 Posts
September 30 2010 19:38 GMT
#1106
On October 01 2010 02:41 Shotcoder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 30 2010 11:19 Musoeun wrote:
Prediction time! But first my personal numerical rankings, a little bit weirder this week:

1. Atlanta Falcons
2. Indianapolis Colts
3. Pittsburgh Steelers
4. Green Bay Packers
5. New England Patriots
6. Kansas City Chiefs
7. Philadelphia Eagles
8. Tennessee Titans
9. New York Jets
10. Seattle Seahawks
11. San Diego Chargers
12. Chicago Bears
13. St Louis Rams
14. Miami Dolphins
15. Denver Broncos
16. Cincinnati Bengals
17. Baltimore Ravens
18. Minnesota Vikings
19. Dallas Cowboys
20. New Orleans Saints
21. Washington Redskins
22. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
23. Detroit Lions
24. Cleveland Browns
25. Oakland Raiders
26. Houston Texans
27. Arizona Cardinals
28. New York Giants
29. Carolina Panthers
30. Buffalo Bills
31. San Francisco 49ers
32. Jacksonville Jaguars

Both New York Giants and Houston look a little low, but neither can stop anybody.


I really don't understand your rankings at all. Cleveland #24? Houston at #26? New Orleans at #20? Atlanta #1? Chiefs #6? Pats higher than Miami and the Jets? I sense quite a bit of bias in these rankings. Especially with NO and Houston so low and the Chiefs, Browns and Lion abnormally high.


Like I've said, these are stat-based rankings, so while I'm picking the stats and how they're weighted, they're impartial. Unfortunately, I haven't yet managed to adjust for schedule/opponent.

Here's my ranking again with the current Football Outsiders' DAVE ranking (a ranking adjusted based on current actual DVOA and preseason expectation/ranking), with the unadjusted DVOA given in parentheses, as per this column

1. Atlanta Falcons (2-1): 5 (7)
2. Indianapolis Colts (2-1): 7 (10)
3. Pittsburgh Steelers (3-0): 1 (3)
4. Green Bay Packers (2-1): 2 (1)
5. New England Patriots (2-1): 3 (6)
6. Kansas City Chiefs (3-0): 9 (2)
7. Philadelphia Eagles (2-1): 4 (5)
8. Tennessee Titans (2-1): 20 (13)
9. New York Jets (2-1): 6 (4)
10. Seattle Seahawks (2-1): 14 (9)
11. San Diego Chargers (1-2): 19 (15)
12. Chicago Bears (3-0): 12 (14)
13. St Louis Rams (1-2): 26 (23)
14. Miami Dolphins (2-1): 10 (11)
15. Denver Broncos (1-2): 22 (22)
16. Cincinnati Bengals (2-1): 17 (16)
17. Baltimore Ravens (2-1): 8 (18)
18. Minnesota Vikings (1-2): 16 (24)
19. Dallas Cowboys (1-2): 11 (8)
20. New Orleans Saints (2-1): 13 (12)
21. Washington Redskins (2-1): 18 (25)
22. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (2-1): 21 (17)
23. Detroit Lions (0-3): 30 (26)
24. Cleveland Browns (0-3): 25 (19)
25. Oakland Raiders (1-2): 32 (29)
26. Houston Texans (2-1): 24 (21)
27. Arizona Cardinals (2-1): 23 (27)
28. New York Giants (1-2): 15 (20)
29. Carolina Panthers (0-3): 28 (31)
30. Buffalo Bills (0-3): 27 (28)
31. San Francisco 49ers (0-3): 31 (32)
32. Jacksonville Jaguars (1-2): 29 (30)

That gives us two categories of suspicious rankings on my list.

I. Teams with losing records above 12/winning records below 20 (5)
(Reasoning: Given how early in the season we are, a team could be misplaced some depending on the schedule, but if very good or very bad shouldn't be too far out; 16 is average)
11. San Diego Chargers (1-2): 19 (15) - But we'd mostly agree the Chargers ought to be good, and have gotten unlucky/taken stupid losses.
21. Washington Redskins (2-1): 18 (25) - Who knows where the Redskins belong? This one doesn't bother me too much.
22. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (2-1): 21 (17) - Same here. Tampa could be getting better, but their wins have been close-ish and their loss terrible, even if to the Steelers.
26. Houston Texans (2-1): 24 (21) - The wild card. I don't really understand it, even if I can point to their awful defense (the Texans are -1 in net points). Unless the Texans revert to past years' form, this is the most major test case to see how my rank adjusts.
27. Arizona Cardinals (2-1): 23 (27) - The Cards should be 0-3, but have the most amazing luck I've ever seen. They're 27th or worse, winning record or no.

Final Score: 1 puzzle, 3 concerns, 1 no problem

II. Teams DAVE or DVOA Rank > +/-6 Off (10)
(Reasoning: 6 is the number of playoff spots in a conference, thus a "critical" number; also the lower approximation of 20% of 32 teams, and fifths is usually a decent way to divide a league: very good, good, average, bad, terrible)
2. Indianapolis Colts (2-1): (10) - Actually ranked 10th in DVOA, but will probably recover fine. #2 feels safe for now.
8. Tennessee Titans (2-1): 20 - The adjusted DAVE doesn't like the Titans. While I do, the fact that they're ranked this high with such unimpressive wins may indicate another test case.
11. San Diego Chargers (1-2): 19 - I don't know why DAVE doesn't like the Chargers. I don't know how my numbers rank the Chargers so high when they're averaging 4+ turnovers a game iirc.
13. St Louis Rams (1-2): 26 (23) - A genuine test case. Losses to the the Cards and Oakland argue they're terrible: beating Washington convincingly argues they're good. I have no idea how there's such a huge difference in ranking either.
15. Denver Broncos (1-2): 22 (22) - On the edge of being a question. This is something I need to figure out how to adjust for: offenses that just can't score TDs regularly even though they move the ball well.
17. Baltimore Ravens (2-1): 8 - No apologies. FO liked the Ravens preseason: DAVE still likes them because of that. I don't like them and neither do my numbers.
19. Dallas Cowboys (1-2): 11 (8) - I expect the Cowboys to get better (they moved up a couple spots this week now they finally won), but since I'm running pure stats right now, those two losses still hurt them.
20. New Orleans Saints (2-1): 13 (12) - One good 10 point win, and the Saints would jump about 10 places, I think.
23. Detroit Lions (0-3): 30 - The Lions are here on my rank because they've moved the ball, so the base rating is fairly good. Even the endzone turnovers haven't managed to knock them down further.
28. New York Giants (1-2): 15 (20) - See the Cowboys.

Final Tally: 1 puzzle, 3 test cases, 4 concerns, 3 no problem

Interestingly, of these 14 teams total, only San Diego falls into both categories (poorly ranked by NFL standing and ranked way different than DVOA). 4 I'm inclined to dismiss any questions on four of these teams (ARI, IND, BAL, DET) for now, leaving 10 teams to watch, of which only 2 - Houston and St Louis - feel like they're genuinely way out of place. I'm definitely keeping an eye on these things, but I don't feel - after only three weeks - that I've got demonstrably major flaws with the system.
Don't Shoot the Penguins. | Dance, 성은, dance! | Killer FanKlub | Action sucks. | Storm Terran hwaiting.
SweeTLemonS[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
11739 Posts
September 30 2010 20:00 GMT
#1107
Reading that made me remember why I think team rankings are the dumbest things in sports.
I'm never gonna know you now \ But I'm gonna love you anyhow.
tonight
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States11130 Posts
September 30 2010 20:54 GMT
#1108
Aren't your season predictions only like 50% right now? If you're predicting your wins based on these rankings that should tell you something.
if I come without a thing, then I come with all I need @tonightsend
Musoeun
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States4324 Posts
September 30 2010 20:57 GMT
#1109
On October 01 2010 05:54 tonight wrote:
Aren't your season predictions only like 50% right now? If you're predicting your wins based on these rankings that should tell you something.


Yah, that's the joke, isn't it? It's still something I'm playing with. It's a process.
Don't Shoot the Penguins. | Dance, 성은, dance! | Killer FanKlub | Action sucks. | Storm Terran hwaiting.
SweeTLemonS[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
11739 Posts
September 30 2010 21:04 GMT
#1110
On October 01 2010 05:54 tonight wrote:
Aren't your season predictions only like 50% right now? If you're predicting your wins based on these rankings that should tell you something.


People come up with so many wild ways to rank teams through statistics. Then you get people using those statistics to base their picks "X will beat Y! X's DVOA is so much higher than Y's." Then Y shitstomps X, because none of that stuff actually matters.
I'm never gonna know you now \ But I'm gonna love you anyhow.
zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-01 00:00:00
September 30 2010 23:58 GMT
#1111
On October 01 2010 03:20 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2010 03:19 zer0das wrote:
I think the Chiefs are legit, but they'll probably bomb out of the playoffs in the first round. At least if their coaching staff doesn't screw them out of 3-4 wins first. I really, really hope the feed the ball to Thomas Jones a ton strategy is just to keep Jamaal Charles fresh for down the stretch.

Even so, Charles was worth where I drafted him. :O

Also, MJD has sucked this year. I wouldn't be surprised if someone traded him. If I thought I could get anything of value for him, I probably would. On the other hand,


So you aren't going to finish that thought?


Wasn't planning on it.

I was going to say something like "maybe he breaks out soon!" but I don't actually believe that at this point. Though who knows.
Snake_Doc
Profile Joined July 2010
Australia98 Posts
October 01 2010 00:00 GMT
#1112
NHL is better!
Betty Blue, copy
Aquafresh
Profile Joined May 2007
United States824 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-01 00:13:18
October 01 2010 00:10 GMT
#1113
On October 01 2010 04:38 Musoeun wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 01 2010 02:41 Shotcoder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 30 2010 11:19 Musoeun wrote:
Prediction time! But first my personal numerical rankings, a little bit weirder this week:

1. Atlanta Falcons
2. Indianapolis Colts
3. Pittsburgh Steelers
4. Green Bay Packers
5. New England Patriots
6. Kansas City Chiefs
7. Philadelphia Eagles
8. Tennessee Titans
9. New York Jets
10. Seattle Seahawks
11. San Diego Chargers
12. Chicago Bears
13. St Louis Rams
14. Miami Dolphins
15. Denver Broncos
16. Cincinnati Bengals
17. Baltimore Ravens
18. Minnesota Vikings
19. Dallas Cowboys
20. New Orleans Saints
21. Washington Redskins
22. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
23. Detroit Lions
24. Cleveland Browns
25. Oakland Raiders
26. Houston Texans
27. Arizona Cardinals
28. New York Giants
29. Carolina Panthers
30. Buffalo Bills
31. San Francisco 49ers
32. Jacksonville Jaguars

Both New York Giants and Houston look a little low, but neither can stop anybody.


I really don't understand your rankings at all. Cleveland #24? Houston at #26? New Orleans at #20? Atlanta #1? Chiefs #6? Pats higher than Miami and the Jets? I sense quite a bit of bias in these rankings. Especially with NO and Houston so low and the Chiefs, Browns and Lion abnormally high.


Like I've said, these are stat-based rankings, so while I'm picking the stats and how they're weighted, they're impartial. Unfortunately, I haven't yet managed to adjust for schedule/opponent.

Here's my ranking again with the current Football Outsiders' DAVE ranking (a ranking adjusted based on current actual DVOA and preseason expectation/ranking), with the unadjusted DVOA given in parentheses, as per this column

1. Atlanta Falcons (2-1): 5 (7)
2. Indianapolis Colts (2-1): 7 (10)
3. Pittsburgh Steelers (3-0): 1 (3)
4. Green Bay Packers (2-1): 2 (1)
5. New England Patriots (2-1): 3 (6)
6. Kansas City Chiefs (3-0): 9 (2)
7. Philadelphia Eagles (2-1): 4 (5)
8. Tennessee Titans (2-1): 20 (13)
9. New York Jets (2-1): 6 (4)
10. Seattle Seahawks (2-1): 14 (9)
11. San Diego Chargers (1-2): 19 (15)
12. Chicago Bears (3-0): 12 (14)
13. St Louis Rams (1-2): 26 (23)
14. Miami Dolphins (2-1): 10 (11)
15. Denver Broncos (1-2): 22 (22)
16. Cincinnati Bengals (2-1): 17 (16)
17. Baltimore Ravens (2-1): 8 (18)
18. Minnesota Vikings (1-2): 16 (24)
19. Dallas Cowboys (1-2): 11 (8)
20. New Orleans Saints (2-1): 13 (12)
21. Washington Redskins (2-1): 18 (25)
22. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (2-1): 21 (17)
23. Detroit Lions (0-3): 30 (26)
24. Cleveland Browns (0-3): 25 (19)
25. Oakland Raiders (1-2): 32 (29)
26. Houston Texans (2-1): 24 (21)
27. Arizona Cardinals (2-1): 23 (27)
28. New York Giants (1-2): 15 (20)
29. Carolina Panthers (0-3): 28 (31)
30. Buffalo Bills (0-3): 27 (28)
31. San Francisco 49ers (0-3): 31 (32)
32. Jacksonville Jaguars (1-2): 29 (30)

That gives us two categories of suspicious rankings on my list.

I. Teams with losing records above 12/winning records below 20 (5)
(Reasoning: Given how early in the season we are, a team could be misplaced some depending on the schedule, but if very good or very bad shouldn't be too far out; 16 is average)
11. San Diego Chargers (1-2): 19 (15) - But we'd mostly agree the Chargers ought to be good, and have gotten unlucky/taken stupid losses.
21. Washington Redskins (2-1): 18 (25) - Who knows where the Redskins belong? This one doesn't bother me too much.
22. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (2-1): 21 (17) - Same here. Tampa could be getting better, but their wins have been close-ish and their loss terrible, even if to the Steelers.
26. Houston Texans (2-1): 24 (21) - The wild card. I don't really understand it, even if I can point to their awful defense (the Texans are -1 in net points). Unless the Texans revert to past years' form, this is the most major test case to see how my rank adjusts.
27. Arizona Cardinals (2-1): 23 (27) - The Cards should be 0-3, but have the most amazing luck I've ever seen. They're 27th or worse, winning record or no.

Final Score: 1 puzzle, 3 concerns, 1 no problem

II. Teams DAVE or DVOA Rank > +/-6 Off (10)
(Reasoning: 6 is the number of playoff spots in a conference, thus a "critical" number; also the lower approximation of 20% of 32 teams, and fifths is usually a decent way to divide a league: very good, good, average, bad, terrible)
2. Indianapolis Colts (2-1): (10) - Actually ranked 10th in DVOA, but will probably recover fine. #2 feels safe for now.
8. Tennessee Titans (2-1): 20 - The adjusted DAVE doesn't like the Titans. While I do, the fact that they're ranked this high with such unimpressive wins may indicate another test case.
11. San Diego Chargers (1-2): 19 - I don't know why DAVE doesn't like the Chargers. I don't know how my numbers rank the Chargers so high when they're averaging 4+ turnovers a game iirc.
13. St Louis Rams (1-2): 26 (23) - A genuine test case. Losses to the the Cards and Oakland argue they're terrible: beating Washington convincingly argues they're good. I have no idea how there's such a huge difference in ranking either.
15. Denver Broncos (1-2): 22 (22) - On the edge of being a question. This is something I need to figure out how to adjust for: offenses that just can't score TDs regularly even though they move the ball well.
17. Baltimore Ravens (2-1): 8 - No apologies. FO liked the Ravens preseason: DAVE still likes them because of that. I don't like them and neither do my numbers.
19. Dallas Cowboys (1-2): 11 (8) - I expect the Cowboys to get better (they moved up a couple spots this week now they finally won), but since I'm running pure stats right now, those two losses still hurt them.
20. New Orleans Saints (2-1): 13 (12) - One good 10 point win, and the Saints would jump about 10 places, I think.
23. Detroit Lions (0-3): 30 - The Lions are here on my rank because they've moved the ball, so the base rating is fairly good. Even the endzone turnovers haven't managed to knock them down further.
28. New York Giants (1-2): 15 (20) - See the Cowboys.

Final Tally: 1 puzzle, 3 test cases, 4 concerns, 3 no problem

Interestingly, of these 14 teams total, only San Diego falls into both categories (poorly ranked by NFL standing and ranked way different than DVOA). 4 I'm inclined to dismiss any questions on four of these teams (ARI, IND, BAL, DET) for now, leaving 10 teams to watch, of which only 2 - Houston and St Louis - feel like they're genuinely way out of place. I'm definitely keeping an eye on these things, but I don't feel - after only three weeks - that I've got demonstrably major flaws with the system.


EDIT: Oh I see what you're doing now, you probably know all this stuff already then, I thought you were just spitting out the DVOA rankings themselves.

If you're familiar with DVOA you know that they don't start adjusting for schedule until next week right? Also DVOA takes awhile to get going. There will be a lot of anomalies until everyone has played each other enough to get a good picture of where they stand.

All this being said DVOA is quite good. It is probably the most useful statistical analysis tool out there right now, and it has a very good record of predicting wins late in the season. A lot of people like pure drive stats, but DVOA is superior in every way. For lazy people, like me, there are some more accessible stats out there that are also very predictive.

DPR - Defensive passer rating. Pretty self explanatory, measures the passer rating given up by the defense. Much better than yards allowed and other popular stats as it measures efficiency of a pass defense, not how much they happen to be thrown on.

YPA - Passing yards per attempt. Go look through the box scores for a week and pick out the teams that generated more YPA than their opponents. You will find just about every single one of them won their game. By far the most important stat for a passing offense, and thus also for QBs.
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
October 01 2010 01:05 GMT
#1114
I dont understand how ESPN and even some forum goers can rank the Saints so high, ignoring they struggled in all 3 games but give teams like the Bears and Kansas City so much flak. Ignore the Super Bowl favoritism and just watch the damn games please.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
SweeTLemonS[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
11739 Posts
October 01 2010 03:08 GMT
#1115
On October 01 2010 10:05 Ace wrote:
I dont understand how ESPN and even some forum goers can rank the Saints so high, ignoring they struggled in all 3 games but give teams like the Bears and Kansas City so much flak. Ignore the Super Bowl favoritism and just watch the damn games please.


Because early rankings are also partially based on last year's performances. You know what a team that has returned nearly all of its starters is capable of. You know that they have everyone available to crush those teams. KC is an anomaly. They were a bottom feeder last year, I think they won three games all year (maybe four), and they're already at three. No one knows if they're for real, or if they just beat bad teams.

I don't get why the Bears get the flak. Their game vs Detroit was a domination everywhere but the final score. Dallas has an excellent offense (when they're clicking), and can rush the passer. GB is widely considered to be the best team in the NFC, and the Bears beat them. They deserve to be ranked highly for now.
I'm never gonna know you now \ But I'm gonna love you anyhow.
tonight
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States11130 Posts
October 01 2010 09:50 GMT
#1116
The Saints do not have the same tenacity on defense that they had last year. Their offense is always going to be good as long as Brees as at the helm, but as he goes the team goes. That sort of goes without saying though...
if I come without a thing, then I come with all I need @tonightsend
DannyJ
Profile Joined March 2010
United States5110 Posts
October 01 2010 10:09 GMT
#1117
What do you guys think about the proposed 18 games season?

As much as i love my football, I'm not sure if i really want that. For a league really into safety all of a sudden, it's odd that they'd want to add 2 more games for players to get hurt in. If the NFL thinks fans don't like useless preseason games what about when those fans see their favorite players hurt more, or get benched more to stay healthy. I really don't see what it adds to the season.

Seems totally all about the money.



KOFgokuon
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States14900 Posts
October 01 2010 12:21 GMT
#1118
awful players will drop like flies
SweeTLemonS[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
11739 Posts
October 01 2010 14:45 GMT
#1119
It's a bad idea, and I don't think the union is going to accept it, unless there is a LOT of money involved, but I think most people with a brain will agree with you Danny.
I'm never gonna know you now \ But I'm gonna love you anyhow.
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32113 Posts
October 01 2010 15:51 GMT
#1120
no 18 is retarded, most nflers that have semi-meaningful careers are crippled by the time theyre 40. over a 10 year career, that's like an extra season + playoffs.... fuck that. more football would be nice, but id rather have quality ball over seeing whoever backs up Aaron Rodgers because he got murdered in those two extra games cuz of his shit like

SL, im a little late, but between your comparison between NYNJ/ new england and your troy smith comment i found last week, i must say, i hate you
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
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