On January 07 2011 08:31 KOFgokuon wrote: Why do all college coaches that go to the pros have to be greedy douches? Some people want the challenge of winning in the NFL to some extent. So few coaches have succeeded in the jump from college to pro, once you have a decent level of success in the college ranks there's only 1 more place to try
Because I think that if Harbaugh goes to Miami it'd just be for monetary reasons. He'd have a much better chance to succeed if he went to San Fran, IMO.
I really don't see why there is such interest in Harbough. What the hell makes him so special? It's not like good College coaches have good track records in the pros.
The NFL has proven over the last few years that hungry, driven NFL assistant coaches can really succeed. That's who I'd look into first above anyone else.
On January 07 2011 06:07 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote: So luck is saying that he is going to stay for two more years? Because he's going into his junior year this year. Maybe he's not a true junior though? I don't know. I tend to think it's more of career decision, because who the fuck would want to go to Carolina right now? They're so bad, it's ridiculous. I'm convinced that was why Bradford decided to stay in college when the Lions were the #1 team.
The #1 pick is always the worst team. The NFL is a league of change, the Panthers will not be the worst team in a year or two from now so it doesn't really matter where you get drafted.
If you look at a history of #1 picks the last 10 years you'll notice a trend: 2001 - Michael Vick, had success in Atlanta, both Vick and Atlanta have success now. 2002 - David Carr, bad pick Texans as an expansion team don't improve much. 2003 - Carson Palmer, pro bowl quarterback, Bengals success with Palmer and even swept the division last year. 2004 - Eli Manning, drafted by SD and traded to New York, both teams successful in the next few years with Manning even getting a Super Bowl. 2005 - Alex Smith, wrong pick but he's not that bad, the 49ers were starting to look up last year until they messed up this season. 2006 - Mario Williams, controversial pick for Houston but they stopped being one of the worst teams in the league after that and Williams is really good. 2007 - JaMarcus Russel, total bust but somehow the Raiders are recovering and swept the division this year. 2008 - Jake Long, the Dolphins almost lost all 16 games the year before and were considered one of the worst teams in history and the very next year they win the tough AFC East. 2009 - Matthew Stafford, probably their franchise quarterback, all he needs to do is stop getting injured, there is a lot of talent on this team now and they are improving. 2010 - Sam Bradford, go from 1-15 to almost winning the division the next year, appears to be franchise quarterback.
So the Panthers will probably be good or at least decent within a few years, they still have two great running backs on their roster and they can definitely be much better next year.
That's not the point. Many of those other teams had players in place to start helping the QB. Plus, if I'm right and he doesn't want to go to the Panthers because they're so bad, maybe he falls to five or something next season, and, while losing out on up front money, gets a team with a young, emerging offense. It makes perfect sense to not want to be guaranteed to go to one of the worst teams anyone has ever seen. I mean, if it's me, I wanna be like Aaron Rodgers. Get taken in the first round, sit on the bench for a few years while my team gets better, then come out and play well, and get paid in my second contract. I miss out on a few mil, sure, but I'm gonna make a shitton anyway.
Vick - I don't remember. Probably not much other than Alge Crumpler, but I know that he broke his leg his second year, and that the team was terrible for a long time. He also was never a good QB in
Atl, and is questionable in Philly.
Carr - Expansion team, can't expect much to be there.
Palmer - Chad Johnson, also sat his first year.
Manning (Rivers) - LT, Gates, Brees. Rivers didn't play his first two years while the team got better.
Smith - had nothing, still garbage. May have been okay, but his career is all but over.
Williams - is not a QB, so he doesn't count.
Russel - Terrible team, out of the league.
Long - See: Williams
Stafford - Calvin Johnson. Also, terrible offensive line, leading to chronic shoulder injuries, due to getting slammed on the ground a lot.
Bradford - SJax, Avery (injured, I know), a young O Line.
Panthers - DWill, likely gone next year. JStew, injury prone, not a great player. Steve Smith, old as fuck. Bad offensive line. These other teams have a core of young players to develop around, and Carolina is worse than these other teams were.
O-Linemen, and D-Linemen do not have someone coming across the line all game long trying to knock them out of every game. A QB is exposed all the time behind a bad offensive line, that's why Williams and Long don't count.
On January 07 2011 08:35 DannyJ wrote: I really don't see why there is such interest in Harbough. What the hell makes him so special? It's not like good College coaches have good track records in the pros.
The NFL has proven over the last few years that hungry, driven NFL assistant coaches can really succeed. That's who I'd look into first above anyone else.
He is overhyped, but he's hyped to begin with because he turned Stanford (a school with a limited recruiting base due to academic standards) from 1-11 to 12-1 in five years.
Edit: But even Harbaugh said that a lot of the success is because he has Luck. I'd like to see if he could have continuous success at Stanford before he goes to the NFL.
On January 07 2011 06:07 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote: So luck is saying that he is going to stay for two more years? Because he's going into his junior year this year. Maybe he's not a true junior though? I don't know. I tend to think it's more of career decision, because who the fuck would want to go to Carolina right now? They're so bad, it's ridiculous. I'm convinced that was why Bradford decided to stay in college when the Lions were the #1 team.
The #1 pick is always the worst team. The NFL is a league of change, the Panthers will not be the worst team in a year or two from now so it doesn't really matter where you get drafted.
If you look at a history of #1 picks the last 10 years you'll notice a trend: 2001 - Michael Vick, had success in Atlanta, both Vick and Atlanta have success now. 2002 - David Carr, bad pick Texans as an expansion team don't improve much. 2003 - Carson Palmer, pro bowl quarterback, Bengals success with Palmer and even swept the division last year. 2004 - Eli Manning, drafted by SD and traded to New York, both teams successful in the next few years with Manning even getting a Super Bowl. 2005 - Alex Smith, wrong pick but he's not that bad, the 49ers were starting to look up last year until they messed up this season. 2006 - Mario Williams, controversial pick for Houston but they stopped being one of the worst teams in the league after that and Williams is really good. 2007 - JaMarcus Russel, total bust but somehow the Raiders are recovering and swept the division this year. 2008 - Jake Long, the Dolphins almost lost all 16 games the year before and were considered one of the worst teams in history and the very next year they win the tough AFC East. 2009 - Matthew Stafford, probably their franchise quarterback, all he needs to do is stop getting injured, there is a lot of talent on this team now and they are improving. 2010 - Sam Bradford, go from 1-15 to almost winning the division the next year, appears to be franchise quarterback.
So the Panthers will probably be good or at least decent within a few years, they still have two great running backs on their roster and they can definitely be much better next year.
That's not the point. Many of those other teams had players in place to start helping the QB. Plus, if I'm right and he doesn't want to go to the Panthers because they're so bad, maybe he falls to five or something next season, and, while losing out on up front money, gets a team with a young, emerging offense. It makes perfect sense to not want to be guaranteed to go to one of the worst teams anyone has ever seen. I mean, if it's me, I wanna be like Aaron Rodgers. Get taken in the first round, sit on the bench for a few years while my team gets better, then come out and play well, and get paid in my second contract. I miss out on a few mil, sure, but I'm gonna make a shitton anyway.
Vick - I don't remember. Probably not much other than Alge Crumpler, but I know that he broke his leg his second year, and that the team was terrible for a long time. He also was never a good QB in
Atl, and is questionable in Philly.
Carr - Expansion team, can't expect much to be there.
Palmer - Chad Johnson, also sat his first year.
Manning (Rivers) - LT, Gates, Brees. Rivers didn't play his first two years while the team got better.
Smith - had nothing, still garbage. May have been okay, but his career is all but over.
Williams - is not a QB, so he doesn't count.
Russel - Terrible team, out of the league.
Long - See: Williams
Stafford - Calvin Johnson. Also, terrible offensive line, leading to chronic shoulder injuries, due to getting slammed on the ground a lot.
Bradford - SJax, Avery (injured, I know), a young O Line.
Panthers - DWill, likely gone next year. JStew, injury prone, not a great player. Steve Smith, old as fuck. Bad offensive line. These other teams have a core of young players to develop around, and Carolina is worse than these other teams were.
O-Linemen, and D-Linemen do not have someone coming across the line all game long trying to knock them out of every game. A QB is exposed all the time behind a bad offensive line, that's why Williams and Long don't count.
I'm just saying no one team really stays as the worst team in the league, you get other talent in the draft and 2-3 years down the line the Panthers will be a completely different team from what they are today. From a logical perspective, I think Luck and other QBs who don't declare for the draft when they have 1st overall or high first round potential are making the wrong decision. You have potential to make millions in a once in a lifetime opportunity guaranteed, you can always finish up your degree if things don't pan out. But with football, you could get injured, your draft stock can fall and earn astronomically less, so you should just seize your opportunities when you get them.
There are plenty of teams that are terrible and continue to be terrible for a very long time... but yeah i cant believe some people dont declare for the draft when they are assured to be taken at a very high pick. Get your money while you can you might snap your knee tomorrow.
On January 07 2011 06:17 setzer wrote: Dumb decision imo. With the rookie wage cap going into the CBA Luck could lose over 30mil guaranteed, and even then he could lose more even if falls in the draft. With that said, even if he REALLY didn't want to play in Carolina he could go the Eli Manning route and get traded to another team.
With what's being reported around the news vine, it is really pathetic of the new Dolphins management to actively court Harbaugh and still have Sparano as their head coach, not to mention basically giving a middle finger to the Rooney Rule. Dolphin fans should be embarrassed with the total lack of respect being shown for its coaching staff and players.
Jeff Ireland is only keeping Sparano there because of Parcells, and they can agree to terms of a contract, see a minority coaching prospect, fire Sparano, and give the offer back to Harbaugh and he can royally fuck them. Tbh it's a gamble.
Personally I would hope Miami at least looks into Cowher before signing Harbaugh.
On January 07 2011 06:07 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote: So luck is saying that he is going to stay for two more years? Because he's going into his junior year this year. Maybe he's not a true junior though? I don't know. I tend to think it's more of career decision, because who the fuck would want to go to Carolina right now? They're so bad, it's ridiculous. I'm convinced that was why Bradford decided to stay in college when the Lions were the #1 team.
The #1 pick is always the worst team. The NFL is a league of change, the Panthers will not be the worst team in a year or two from now so it doesn't really matter where you get drafted.
If you look at a history of #1 picks the last 10 years you'll notice a trend: 2001 - Michael Vick, had success in Atlanta, both Vick and Atlanta have success now. 2002 - David Carr, bad pick Texans as an expansion team don't improve much. 2003 - Carson Palmer, pro bowl quarterback, Bengals success with Palmer and even swept the division last year. 2004 - Eli Manning, drafted by SD and traded to New York, both teams successful in the next few years with Manning even getting a Super Bowl. 2005 - Alex Smith, wrong pick but he's not that bad, the 49ers were starting to look up last year until they messed up this season. 2006 - Mario Williams, controversial pick for Houston but they stopped being one of the worst teams in the league after that and Williams is really good. 2007 - JaMarcus Russel, total bust but somehow the Raiders are recovering and swept the division this year. 2008 - Jake Long, the Dolphins almost lost all 16 games the year before and were considered one of the worst teams in history and the very next year they win the tough AFC East. 2009 - Matthew Stafford, probably their franchise quarterback, all he needs to do is stop getting injured, there is a lot of talent on this team now and they are improving. 2010 - Sam Bradford, go from 1-15 to almost winning the division the next year, appears to be franchise quarterback.
So the Panthers will probably be good or at least decent within a few years, they still have two great running backs on their roster and they can definitely be much better next year.
That's not the point. Many of those other teams had players in place to start helping the QB. Plus, if I'm right and he doesn't want to go to the Panthers because they're so bad, maybe he falls to five or something next season, and, while losing out on up front money, gets a team with a young, emerging offense. It makes perfect sense to not want to be guaranteed to go to one of the worst teams anyone has ever seen. I mean, if it's me, I wanna be like Aaron Rodgers. Get taken in the first round, sit on the bench for a few years while my team gets better, then come out and play well, and get paid in my second contract. I miss out on a few mil, sure, but I'm gonna make a shitton anyway.
Vick - I don't remember. Probably not much other than Alge Crumpler, but I know that he broke his leg his second year, and that the team was terrible for a long time. He also was never a good QB in
Atl, and is questionable in Philly.
Carr - Expansion team, can't expect much to be there.
Palmer - Chad Johnson, also sat his first year.
Manning (Rivers) - LT, Gates, Brees. Rivers didn't play his first two years while the team got better.
Smith - had nothing, still garbage. May have been okay, but his career is all but over.
Williams - is not a QB, so he doesn't count.
Russel - Terrible team, out of the league.
Long - See: Williams
Stafford - Calvin Johnson. Also, terrible offensive line, leading to chronic shoulder injuries, due to getting slammed on the ground a lot.
Bradford - SJax, Avery (injured, I know), a young O Line.
Panthers - DWill, likely gone next year. JStew, injury prone, not a great player. Steve Smith, old as fuck. Bad offensive line. These other teams have a core of young players to develop around, and Carolina is worse than these other teams were.
O-Linemen, and D-Linemen do not have someone coming across the line all game long trying to knock them out of every game. A QB is exposed all the time behind a bad offensive line, that's why Williams and Long don't count.
I'm just saying no one team really stays as the worst team in the league, you get other talent in the draft and 2-3 years down the line the Panthers will be a completely different team from what they are today. From a logical perspective, I think Luck and other QBs who don't declare for the draft when they have 1st overall or high first round potential are making the wrong decision. You have potential to make millions in a once in a lifetime opportunity guaranteed, you can always finish up your degree if things don't pan out. But with football, you could get injured, your draft stock can fall and earn astronomically less, so you should just seize your opportunities when you get them.
Buffalo Bills, Detroit Lions, and Oakland Raiders. I couldn't tell you the exact amount of top 5-10 picks between these three teams in the last ten years, but I know it's a shitton. Oakland just had it's first non-losing season (not even a winning one!) in seven years. Seven years is just long enough to completely destroy a quarterback's career.
Has it ever occurred to you that there is something more important to some football players than a few extra million? Like career longevity, and winning? You think it matters to Tom Brady that he missed out on about ~$20mil on his rookie contract? It's unlikely, considering that he's the second highest paid QB in the league after Manning gets his deal. I'm sure it still irks him that teams didn't think highly of his skills, but I very sincerely doubt that the amount of money he made on a rookie contract matters to him at this point.
A player can get injured, that's true, but a QB is more likely to be injured behind a bad line than he is behind a good line. I'd rather fall in the draft and go to a team with a good line, then blast team's faces off with my skills (which I've no doubt Luck possesses the tools necessary to do so), than I would be taken first overall by a team that's going to take 3-4 years before they're any good. Who do you think enjoys their position more? Aaron Rodgers, or Alex Smith? How about Rodgers or Stafford? Stafford's contract was the biggest rookie contract ever, at the time. Do you think Rodgers would trade the team that he is on, and the success he is enjoying because he is on a good team for Stafford's bigger contract, and greater chance of injury? I don't think so at all. I think the problem here is that you're only viewing this in the short term.
Not to mention that since Luck will have his architecture degree, he'll still be a first round pick, get a nice salary, and even if he's a bust (which I highly doubt, if he ends up with poor results it'll be because the rest of his team sucks), he'll still have a lot of money and can go be an architect, AND brag to all his friends that he got to be an NFL QB.
As much disdain as I've thrown this guy's way over the past two years, I think he's had some nice offensive schemes, and I think that if he humbles himself some, he can be a very good coach for some team for which I don't particularly care. At any rate, I think this could be a great move by the Vikings if they get McDaniels. He has a track record of turning mediocre QB's into stars now, since he also did it with Kyle Orton, who is not that good. His system seems to be simple enough for even questionable talent to run, so that could be exactly what the Vikes need (TJack is not good).
I'm not sure where the Vikes draft at, but if they can land a guy like Locker, or Mallet, this could be perfect for them.
On January 08 2011 05:51 LosingID8 wrote: jim harbaugh to the 49ers for a 5 year deal
Don't forget to mention it was for 25mil :D. 49ers have a good history with Stanford coaches(Bill Walsh) so hopefully this will be the start of a new successful era for the team.
On January 08 2011 08:02 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote: I'm very disappointed in that news, personally. I was quite hopeful that he would return to Stanford. Perhaps Andrew Luck will change his mind now.
I'm hoping the 49ers trade up to first now that the panthers think luck is staying in school, then have Luck miraculously change his mind to be with Harbough :D
EPT
