EPTWorld of Tanks - Page 64
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IceteaGuy
Germany95 Posts
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sekalf
Sweden522 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11342 Posts
Oh, and now comes the best part. After this happens, i have to wait 10 minutes to get my tank back. | ||
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Perscienter
957 Posts
If you stay (better don't), here is a link from the last page: http://wiki.worldoftanks.eu/Battle_Mechanics We have also decided that the spike on the edge of distribution is no longer required, so the landing points for shells will be distributed equally from the center to the edge of the aiming circle. http://worldoftanks.com/en/news/19/some-changes-coming-86-update/ This might hint at a uniform distribution. Here is a nice link explaining the difference in accuracy: http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/236755-understanding-the-86-accuracy-change/#top Whenever WG writes something like 'this (e.g. damage) is based on a normal distribution', they really meant it has a normal distribution but they screwed around with it so that it doesn't resemble it in the end. I'm not sure, if precise shots are now also less common. At least they stated they wanted that. | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
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Serejai
6007 Posts
That being said, I'm still having loads of fun. The only thing that really irritates me is how terrible most people are. If I play on one of my elite TIII tanks where I'm top of the list... I have about a 90% win rate. When I'm playing on my leveling TIV tank and I'm at the bottom of the list I have about a 30% win rate. It's really annoying just how bad most people are. I mean, I've been playing this game for like 48 hours and I think I have a decent understanding of the game. For example, I know that a light tank is a scout and shouldn't be sitting in a bush at the back of the map trying to snipe. I know that a KV-1 should be up close and personal in combat... instead of sitting in a bush at the back of the map trying to snipe. Actually, that's my one major complaint; everyone in this game just sits in a bush at base and tries to snipe. Now, playing an actual sniper myself... I rely on spotters in order to do anything. Of course, most games I have no spotters on my team so I can't do all that much. The few times I do get spotters I usually have 3-4 Heavy tanks line up in front of me so I can't shoot anything without shooting them first. The second I break my cover to move elsewhere I get oneshot. This isn't really a complaint about the game, though. I really, really dislike any team games for this very reason. It's very stressful to play with pubs. I think I'm going to switch over to a Heavy when I can. It seems like it would be more pub-friendly than a TD is. | ||
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
It has a brutal learning curve, and the early levels are complicated further by the fact that all the experienced players keep their low tier tanks for daily double xp, so your chances of playing against all beginner opponents are pretty slim. That said... I have no idea what to unlock next. I have a fully unlocked T32, and a fully unlocked AMX 13 90. Torn between grabbing up the 50 100, or grinding out a good tier 8 medium like a T44. Any suggestions? | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On July 01 2013 18:17 MrBitter wrote: Man, I really don't get how people say this game is pay to win. There's literally nothing out there (save the premium tanks, which are never better than their non-premium counterparts) that you can't unlock just by playing. It has a brutal learning curve, and the early levels are complicated further by the fact that all the experienced players keep their low tier tanks for daily double xp, so your chances of playing against all beginner opponents are pretty slim. That said... I have no idea what to unlock next. I have a fully unlocked T32, and a fully unlocked AMX 13 90. Torn between grabbing up the 50 100, or grinding out a good tier 8 medium like a T44. Any suggestions? Well, some people define P2W quite broadly... For example, some people call LoL P2W because you can buy runes for real money, which gives you an advantage compared to people who are stuck grinding for them, even though it's technically possible to get them for free. Same with flavor of the month heroes. Basically, some people call it P2W even if it's possible to get things for free, because paying to get something better immediately is "better" than having to grind for it. | ||
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Serejai
6007 Posts
There are multiple levels of pay to win. For example, let's say you're playing Starcraft II and you can only use Marauders if you purchase them from the store. That's very clearly an advantage to anyone that does. On the other hand, World of Tanks is much more subtle in this regard. Buying gold gets you premium tanks which, while perfectly fine at Tier X, are pretty overpowered at leveling tiers because they start with 100% crew. Likewise, gold also gets you increased leveling speed which means you can unlock upgrades faster, level your crew faster, and generally have an increased chance of outgearing your opponents. Again, not really relevant at Tier X. Lastly, gold buys you premium ammo which is an issue at all levels of play - hence why Wargaming has stated they are removing this and making gold purchase cosmetic-only items in the future. As it stands right now the leveling experience is indeed pay to win, and while it's not too bad considering how the game works, it's still noticeable at times. I don't see any reason why the endgame would be considered pay to win, though, aside from premium rounds (which are being changed). In short, people like the two German guys above screaming about how the game is unplayable due to being pay to win are just angry that they aren't good at it I suppose. It's pay to win by definition but it's certainly not a detriment to the game. | ||
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ZeratuLsc2
Canada426 Posts
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m4inbrain
1505 Posts
On July 01 2013 18:17 MrBitter wrote: Man, I really don't get how people say this game is pay to win. There's literally nothing out there (save the premium tanks, which are never better than their non-premium counterparts) that you can't unlock just by playing. It has a brutal learning curve, and the early levels are complicated further by the fact that all the experienced players keep their low tier tanks for daily double xp, so your chances of playing against all beginner opponents are pretty slim. That said... I have no idea what to unlock next. I have a fully unlocked T32, and a fully unlocked AMX 13 90. Torn between grabbing up the 50 100, or grinding out a good tier 8 medium like a T44. Any suggestions? If i may, grab the 50 100. It almost drives like a medium (and you need to play it like one). The only question would be, do you like autoloaders. If yes, just go for it - if not, well. Get it anyway.  Edit: about pay to win, some people here were arguing that the fact that you progress faster through the trees is "pay to win". There was a big discussion ~10 pages back about that. Conclusion was, that in the core, the game is not pay to win if it comes down to actual competetive gameplay. There is no advantage that you can buy to make your tank stronger than his one. Not that it would matter to me, i play premium anyway. But i disagree with keeping low tier tanks for daily doubles, no idea why i would do that. If it's about free xp, i do that with my Löwe and elited E-75, works way better. | ||
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Perscienter
957 Posts
On July 01 2013 20:58 m4inbrain wrote: Edit: about pay to win, some people here were arguing that the fact that you progress faster through the trees is "pay to win". There was a big discussion ~10 pages back about that. Conclusion was, that in the core, the game is not pay to win if it comes down to actual competetive gameplay. There is no advantage that you can buy to make your tank stronger than his one. Not that it would matter to me, i play premium anyway. But i disagree with keeping low tier tanks for daily doubles, no idea why i would do that. If it's about free xp, i do that with my Löwe and elited E-75, works way better. Here is a selection of Tier X premium competitive advantages: Automatic Fire Extinguishers 50 Gold Activates automatically 0.5 seconds after the tank catches fire and reduces the chance to catch fire by 10%. http://wiki.worldoftanks.com/Consumables + Higher and faster levelled crews. + Premium tanks for levelling your tier X crew without penalties. http://wiki.worldoftanks.com/Gold_Economy#Premium_Tanks + Permanent camouflage patterns http://wiki.worldoftanks.com/Gold_Economy#Permanent_Camouflage_Pattern + Clan creation fee -> theoretical possibility to win gold income streams http://wiki.worldoftanks.com/Gold_Economy#Clan_creation http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/77765-cando-you-make-gold-off-clanwars/ On July 01 2013 18:36 Serejai wrote: In short, people like the two German guys above screaming about how the game is unplayable due to being pay to win are just angry that they aren't good at it I suppose. I suppose not and that's not what I wrote. I warn everybody before the grinding starts. Because once you are in, you almost can't quit. People need to know the nature of WG in advance. | ||
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m4inbrain
1505 Posts
+ Higher and faster levelled crews. + Premium tanks for levelling your tier X crew without penalties. http://wiki.worldoftanks.com/Gold_Economy#Premium_Tanks + Permanent camouflage patterns http://wiki.worldoftanks.com/Gold_Economy#Permanent_Camouflage_Pattern + Clan creation fee -> theoretical possibility to win gold income streams http://wiki.worldoftanks.com/Gold_Economy#Clan_creation http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/77765-cando-you-make-gold-off-clanwars/ None of which is an competetive advantage. Faster grinding (doesn't matter if crew or tank XP) is NOT a competetive advantage. You basically have one with the AFE, which also is nil since the first (avoidable) fire-tick comes at 1 second after the hit, enough time to press the button yourself. About the 10% less fire-chance. I bet, there's round about 10 tanks in the whole history of WoT not getting destroyed by that. If THAT is the horrendous pay to win advantage you guys are talking about, nobody will take you serious. Just as a small sidenote, i would grant this "advantage" every player if he wants it, because it matters SO little. PS: permanent camo, really? It's an advantage because you, well, don't have to click ~10 times to put up a temporary one? ...... | ||
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Perscienter
957 Posts
I do calculate with higher crews due to premium accounts (directly 50% more experience and more) and retraining through gold though, because the additional skills and perks are so hard to reach. http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/151829-something-everyone-should-read/ You know very well of the several advantages of premium consumables. Large Repair Kit 50 Gold While equipped, passively adds 10% to crew's field-repair speed. When used, the kit repairs all currently damaged modules until the end of battle when activated by the respective button. Repaired modules can still be damaged again after the repair, and the passive effect is lost once the kit is consumed. Large First Aid Kit 50 Gold While equipped, provides 15% resistance to crew injury from penetrating hits. When used, heals all currently injured crew members until the end of battle when activated by the respective button. Healed crew members can still be re-injured or perish, and the passive effect is lost once the kit is consumed. http://wiki.worldoftanks.eu/Consumables The general repair and healing are important, especially after a fire. The FV215b is quite prone to fire. I think this counters it quite well. And I cant' stress the crew enough. | ||
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bitter[KALT]
United States138 Posts
The only thing left in the game that helps paying players achieve higher win rates than non-paying players of equal skill level is free xp conversion to eliminate stock grinds. And crew training to a lesser extent. | ||
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Perscienter
957 Posts
Here is the news entry for discount: http://worldoftanks.eu/en/news/44/50-discount-premium-consumables/ Indeed premium consumables can be bought for credits. I couldn't remember when they changed that. Why call it premium anyway? The wikis still don't mention it, so not my fault. http://wiki.worldoftanks.eu/Consumables Will that be a permanent change? 10k is still much, not even speaking of 20k. Anyway, I'm stocking up on them. | ||
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
On July 01 2013 18:36 Serejai wrote: Buying gold gets you premium tanks which, while perfectly fine at Tier X, are pretty overpowered at leveling tiers because they start with 100% crew. How come my premium tank started with a 50% crew? | ||
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m4inbrain
1505 Posts
On July 02 2013 01:12 Lucumo wrote: How come my premium tank started with a 50% crew? Because premium tanks start with a 50% crew, that's why. This discussion is moot, half of the "facts" are in fact just crap based on old stuff (consumables, camo etc), or just not true at all. My Löwe came with 50% crew as well, i remember it vividly because it was SO slow that a maus drove circles around me (not saying that it couldn't now -.-). Not to mention that you have your first 100% crew at tier 5 even without premium. Will that be a permanent change? 10k is still much, not even speaking of 20k. Anyway, I'm stocking up on them. In the very link you quoted: The special will be active from the moment Version 8.6 is released and will last until the release of Version 8.7! It’s time to fill your storeroom! Should be one or two more weeks i guess, they stated that they will release 8.7 pretty fast after 8.6. But funny how you're even complaining about the fact that they're basically free now, just not as free as you want them to be. I actually guess it comes down to perspectives. To me everyone complaining more or less sounds like "not fair because i have to grind MORE than the premium guy". Well guess what, that's exactly how it is. Either you pay, or you get your stuff later. But you still get it, other than in real pay to win games, where you don't. | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On July 01 2013 18:36 Serejai wrote: It's pay to win because people who spend money on buying gold have an advantage over players who don't at early levels. Even Wargaming themselves have stated the game is currently pay to win and that they have intentions of converting it into a non-pay to win model in the near future. There are multiple levels of pay to win. For example, let's say you're playing Starcraft II and you can only use Marauders if you purchase them from the store. That's very clearly an advantage to anyone that does. On the other hand, World of Tanks is much more subtle in this regard. Buying gold gets you premium tanks which, while perfectly fine at Tier X, are pretty overpowered at leveling tiers because they start with 100% crew. Likewise, gold also gets you increased leveling speed which means you can unlock upgrades faster, level your crew faster, and generally have an increased chance of outgearing your opponents. Again, not really relevant at Tier X. Lastly, gold buys you premium ammo which is an issue at all levels of play - hence why Wargaming has stated they are removing this and making gold purchase cosmetic-only items in the future. As it stands right now the leveling experience is indeed pay to win, and while it's not too bad considering how the game works, it's still noticeable at times. I don't see any reason why the endgame would be considered pay to win, though, aside from premium rounds (which are being changed). In short, people like the two German guys above screaming about how the game is unplayable due to being pay to win are just angry that they aren't good at it I suppose. It's pay to win by definition but it's certainly not a detriment to the game. I wouldn't call any of those things pay to win, just pay to advance faster. Buying 100% crews are irrelevant by Tier V and above anyway because even without paying you're likely to have progressed your crew up to 100% by then anyway. And on top of that some people log tons of games in their lower tier tanks because they enjoy them, and they would have gotten a 100% crew in that tank anyway after <100 games (a paltry amount when you consider people have played tens of thousands). Indeed you can buy premium ammo and consumables with gold, but also with credits. So if you mean "pay to win" in the sense that you can use real currency OR spend extra in-game currency for slight advantages, then can't everyone do that? It's just making a choice to potentially lose a lot of credits while betting on the fact that you can use the small advantages to negate the loss. Anyone can do this with credits. In fact I'd actually wager highly at this point that no one using premium ammo and/or consumables is buying them with gold anymore. Anyone willing to spend gold on those types of things likely also has a decent enough credit fund to piss away on that stuff if they really want to. In my opinion it's not pay to win, it's pay for convenience. Leveling faster, getting crew and things faster than you would otherwise. Patience vs progression. If you consider that pay to win then it's simply a matter of definition. My first few hundred games I got very salty at things like derp ammo and stuff. Now it's just a part of the experience. Taking a few premium rounds along for those clutch scenarios is pretty normal, and in my opinion it's more of a reliability advantage above tier VI-ish and above, rather than a huge damage advantage like it can be at lower tiers (though again, don't fool yourself, only a handful of tanks have derps that benefit substantially from gold ammo. It's easy to trap yourself in a negative mindset of "everyone is firing gold and killing me instantly") Edit: also as above mentioned, prem tanks don't come with a 100% crew. And for the most part they aren't better than their counterparts either (not any more) | ||
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Perscienter
957 Posts
I complain about their information policy and that I can never rely on them even when it comes to simple documentation. The current situation is ok for me, but there will soon be huge nerfs, which are in the air. Since I started before 2013 I don't know why you bully me for being sceptical. Only now they made it at least possible to catch up in gold items (which aren't gold items). Time is money, a proverb says. And tier Xs are costly to maintain. I would also say that WG admitted it, if I could trust any source, but I have to do more reading. Bottom line: current situation is ok. | ||
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