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Duka08
3391 Posts
On September 06 2013 23:50 FromShouri wrote: Considering it seems to be built from the ground up for the console, they even gutted many major features. So I seriously doubt "cool changes" will come to the PC because of the console. Didn't say they were all cool. | ||
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
I never played D3 on PC but I have played millions of hours on D2 so I know a good diablo game when I see it. The Console UI is incredibly slick and easy to move around. Its probably not as simple/robust as the pc version but theres really no problems with the UI on 360 that I have noticed so far. theres a little bit of confusion with things like upgrades on stash space upgrade being hard to figure out first time and selecting hardcore characters is hard to figure out the first time also but as far as combat/controls go the UI is smooth and feels good. And I pumped the Difficulty up to master 5 wich is MP10 on pc version from what I understand and got pretty much 1 shot by every mob at start so I cant possibly imagine the PC version being more difficult without just being broken. | ||
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Muecke
Germany150 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 07 2013 05:59 Muecke wrote: Wait until you're level60! You will get geared very fast and then it gets boring. Mind you, you will have been playing for 60-80 hours at this point, so its kinda relative. | ||
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Big G
Italy835 Posts
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Najda
United States3765 Posts
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Big G
Italy835 Posts
On September 07 2013 10:21 Najda wrote: It was buffed because of no AH. There are plenty of 'casuals' on the PC too. Not really... "no AH" is balanced by "smart drop", but that doesn't explain why items roll much higher values than the PC counterpart. IK set for example has roughly ~100str and ~10res more for each piece, 1H weapons go up to 1500dps and 150% (200% maybe?) critical damage, etc... while monsters' hp hasn't changed. With these numbers people can farm MP10 efficiently after few days. | ||
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dartoo
India2889 Posts
On September 07 2013 17:29 Big G wrote: Not really... "no AH" is balanced by "smart drop", but that doesn't explain why items roll much higher values than the PC counterpart. IK set for example has roughly ~100str and ~10res more for each piece, 1H weapons go up to 1500dps and 150% (200% maybe?) critical damage, etc... while monsters' hp hasn't changed. With these numbers people can farm MP10 efficiently after few days. I guess it's blizzard sort of saying, the console crowd likes it easier, plus you also have to remember that the controls arent going to be as precise as a mouse and a keyboard, no matter how well thought out they might be. I kinda enjoy the challenge actually (well okay until I get vortexed and walled into arcane orbs under a pool of lava:p). If I could get all my chars to safely farm mp10 within a few days I wouldve lost interest in the game. Made a monk...omg monk is so awesome! I actually started out thinking it might be cool to do some sort of dodge build, but I was told it was not a good build as dodge doesnt work on the stuff that actually kills you in inferno, like arcane, plague pools, fire chains etc. So went with a cookie cutter sweeping winds build. Even though his dps shows only 80k he feels like he is a lot stronger than my 130k dh, I'm guessing it's due to his skills that can bump up his dps. The animations are really nice and fluid, especially when your creating tornadoes around, it looks really cool. | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On September 07 2013 17:29 Big G wrote: Not really... "no AH" is balanced by "smart drop", but that doesn't explain why items roll much higher values than the PC counterpart. IK set for example has roughly ~100str and ~10res more for each piece, 1H weapons go up to 1500dps and 150% (200% maybe?) critical damage, etc... while monsters' hp hasn't changed. With these numbers people can farm MP10 efficiently after few days. Why does it matter to you | ||
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aseq
Netherlands3981 Posts
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Duka08
3391 Posts
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Big G
Italy835 Posts
? For the sake of conversation? I'm just stating that "big numbers for everyone" are there to please the casual crowd, while making the end game - in its current state - boring much faster. Smart drops are fine, but I hope that Loot 2.0 brings something other than "numbers" to the table. | ||
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On September 08 2013 01:40 Coagulation wrote: I dont mind getting 60 hours of pure enjoyment out of a game and then "ending" the game at "end game" I think thats what the console version was shooting for anyway and I dont plan on playing diablo 3 every day for the rest of my life so im ok with that. Precisely. It has nothing to do with the "casual" crowd, it just makes sense, especially with no AH. As long as it takes to play through Diablo 3, all 4 difficulties, on even one character let alone playing a couple (not all the way through, but dabbling)... That's arguably way more than many AAA games nowadays. I don't see the issue with completely streamlining that experience by making drops a) more frequent and smart, and b) more powerful so one can progress through higher difficulties at a pace similar to someone who's buying great gear off the AH on the PC version. I'm sure some of the changes are reflective of what Loot 2.0 will bring to PC, but definitely not all of them (most notably, I doubt the bigger numbers will make it). I just find it silly that people who have logged hundreds and hundreds of hours in the PC version for a year and a half and are farming the ultra-high-end content are mad that the console versions they'll never play get loot that's a bit better and more fun. Discussing which of the changes will make it to PC is quite valid, because as I said there will likely be differences between console version and PC's Loot 2.0. But there's a huge subset of people that are just mad that the consoles are having "more?" fun than you had many months ago. I find it mindbogglingly amusing. All that nonsense aside, has anyone played 2-4 player coop on the same screen yet? I'm curious how well done the "split"-screen coop is because I'm considering getting it or splitting it with some buddies for a fun party game. Reminds me of the ol' Gauntlet games. If it's well done I'll probably grab it, but if it's clunky and weird compared to standard online coop then I'm not sure. | ||
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
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Big G
Italy835 Posts
Oh and the casual crowd has A LOT to do with this, and I don't mean it in an offensive way... it should be any designer's goal to cater the attention of casual gamers, while providing the necessary depth and longevity for the hardcore ones. As I said, the lack of AH is balanced by smart drops (which guarantees the "right stats" and make it so a barb drops barb-specific items more often), while "bigger numbers" are there to make everything faster and easier. | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On September 08 2013 02:46 Big G wrote: Duka, where do you see all these "mad" or "angry" people? Most people here are against "bigger numbers" not because they are envious, but because they expect something very different from loot 2.0. Oh and the casual crowd has A LOT to do with this, and I don't mean it in an offensive way... it should be any designer's goal to cater the attention of casual gamers, while providing the necessary depth and longevity for the hardcore ones. As I said, the lack of AH is balanced by smart drops (which guarantees the "right stats" and make it so a barb drops barb-specific items more often), while "bigger numbers" are there to make everything faster and easier. My rant wasn't directed at you. I'm in the same boat as you where I'm looking at the system critically just to see what will/won't make it to Loot 2.0 and if this is really what to expect for PC (in my opinion it's not). The discussions here on TL aren't as bad as some other places, don't get me wrong, but there are both subtle and not-so-subtle jabs at the console version that it's just "easier to find better stuff", implying it in a negative way. I think, for one, there's more variables involved than just catering to the casual crowd. Which, like you said, is not a bad thing. It's smart. But people imply it in a negative way. BUT additionally, I think people care way too much about other people having fun when they don't want them to, or some weird subversive psychological shit like that. And I find that silly. Back to coop again, that's really good to hear Coagulation. I think it could be amazing fun if it's done properly. | ||
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Najda
United States3765 Posts
There was a blue post talking about the changes they made to the drop system, and some of the things mentioned were that they changed a lot of gray/white drops straight to coins, and less but better items would drop to compensate for how clunky it would be to view every item without a mouse and keyboard, an also to allow quicker progress without the presence of AH flooding the market with top end gear. | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On September 08 2013 05:28 Najda wrote: I don't understand the argument for changing the colsone drops for the 'casuals'. The amount of casuals on a console is not any noticibly higher on the console than on PC. D3 sold 12 million copies on PC, do you think even 1/10th of that were 'hardcore' players? What distinguishes them anyway? There was a blue post talking about the changes they made to the drop system, and some of the things mentioned were that they changed a lot of gray/white drops straight to coins, and less but better items would drop to compensate for how clunky it would be to view every item without a mouse and keyboard, an also to allow quicker progress without the presence of AH flooding the market with top end gear. This is my point exactly. Thank you. There's soooo many variables that go into why an "enhanced" loot system is appropriate for the console version, other than JUST the lack of AH, or JUST the "casual" crowd (which is present on the PC too like you said). Not only does it make sense, but I also wouldn't count on some of the more extreme changes making it to PC Loot 2.0 like everyone's afraid of. | ||
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Big G
Italy835 Posts
On September 08 2013 05:28 Najda wrote: I don't understand the argument for changing the colsone drops for the 'casuals'. The amount of casuals on a console is not any noticibly higher on the console than on PC. D3 sold 12 million copies on PC, do you think even 1/10th of that were 'hardcore' players? What distinguishes them anyway? Sales are irrelevant if customers aren't satisfied. 90% of the playerbase, aka the casual players - again, neutral meaning: people who play no more than few hours per week for whatever reason - quit the game well before the "end game" because it was too frustrating or boring. Anyway, PC gamers are typically more "hardcore" for several reasons, not to mention the old D1/D2 playerbase who had high expectations; while the console version has been launched with a strong emphasis on the fun and cooperative aspects (slay monsters with your friends from your couch). There was a blue post talking about the changes they made to the drop system, and some of the things mentioned were that they changed a lot of gray/white drops straight to coins, and less but better items would drop to compensate for how clunky it would be to view every item without a mouse and keyboard, an also to allow quicker progress without the presence of AH flooding the market with top end gear. Again, there are a lot of differences between PC version and console version. Some of these arguably make up for the lack of AH (smart drops, crafting), some are "quality of life" changes (less items, but better), some add variety (any legendary may drop at any level)... and higher rolls are meant to make everything easier. Monster HP stays the same, character's DPS goes up; monster damage stays the same, character's EHP goes up. Not sure why you're trying to debate this. Some of the streamers may farm efficiently MP8 after just a week, achieving the same on the PC version from day1 requires hundreds of hours regardless of AH usage (assuming no real money involved). The game is definitely faster and easier. Again, I'm not saying it is necessarily a bad thing; I'm just pointing out that the poor itemization leads only to a numerical progression (farm to have a chance to drop something with bigger numbers), and in the case of the console version that progression is pretty brief too. | ||
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EPT
I was hoping the consoles and the expansion would get zero sales to teach them a lesson.
