EPTDiablo III General Discussion - Page 228
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spybreak
United States684 Posts
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
On August 12 2011 09:30 magicmUnky wrote: Sooo.... I'm kinda keen to go back and play diablo 1 or 2... are they worth it? Anything a newb should know in particular for Diablo 1? I played it when I was a kid and haven't looked at it since... any tips? To me, Diablo 1 and 2 are completely different games. Diablo 1 was an absolute masterpiece. It's hard to say a lot without spoiling any of the content. Diablo 1 had a very well crafted complement between plotline, art style, music, and setting. There's so much emotional impact during the entire course of the game. Even after playing several times through, I was still fully immersed into the Diablo world. By the standards of today's games, Diablo 1 is slower and simpler, but the atmosphere of the game is still worth playing through. Diablo 2 to me was a complete flip around. It lost the great plotline, music, and setting that Diablo 1 had. It retained the art style during a few parts, but was meaningless without anything to complement it. So basically any plotline or emotion is completely thrown out the window. However Diablo 2 has some of the best action out of any game. There's a wide variety of classes, skills, and items. The skills were all really fun to use. Making your own skill builds for the first time was a blast as well. Playing every class felt like a completely different game as well. I would recommend playing through them both. Each of them is short enough to beat within one day, so you'll get the basic idea of the diablo world. Both games have a lot of replay value if you want to keep going, especially Diablo 2. | ||
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cjin
181 Posts
On August 12 2011 08:28 Aruno wrote: If Diablo 3 is a no mistakes games. Then I will be very annoyed. One of the things I got a lot of satisfaction out of, was working out mistakes in characters I made. It would force you to think long term. The ability to change when and how you like. Seems like what cheaters did in Diablo 2. It makes for unchallenging, low thinking experience. Why cannot they just make Diablo 3 unforgiving?  I feel like a "retro" gamer, asking for games to be hard again >_< I would not consider "I hope I don't press wrong icon when i have unused skillpoint" as hard or challenging. Just annoying. And anyone who wants unforgiving experience can just roll for hardmode char. Haven´t played Guild Wars, but what I have read, it have same kind of skillsystem. And it was so good they are using same for GW2. Yes, it may not be as huge timesink since you don´t need to levelup character all over again from lvl1 when you want to use new fotmspec. But on the other hand it means less income for goldfarmers as they can´t sell that many chars. | ||
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alkow
United States192 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dbm0T.jpg) | ||
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dragonblade369
Canada464 Posts
On August 12 2011 04:35 Kurr wrote: The RMAH bothers me a little bit but it's not a huge deal for me. What REALLY bothers me is that attributes and skill points have essentially been removed. Blizzard goes on and on about loot being the biggest incentive to play. Well, for me, building up my character however I wanted was just as big a part as loot. How Blizzard can take away these things without thinking how it will negatively effect the game in every way is beyond me. RMAH auction house? Slight bother Graphics that look pretty boring? (no, colourful doesn't bother me, but D2 spells look A LOT more awesome than what we've seen in D3 videos which remind me more of WC3 spells) Slight bother Restricting weapons to certain classes? Slight bother Making every character a carbon copy of each other because of the lack of attributes and the new skill system? Deal breaker. Overall, I simply don't understand why they feel the need to dumb down an already easy to play game. Diablo 2 is pretty much the definition of pick up and play. It's easy as hell on normal. Who cares if your first few characters won't be perfect and able to beat higher difficulties, that's what brings you back. That's not to say they haven't made any changes that I'm all for (runes, crafting, skill bar, seperate loot), but I'm astonished that people care at all about the RMAH when there are much much more serious problems with the core gameplay. Dumbing down? From my understanding, by removing skill point makes the player make choices instead. | ||
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Kurr
Canada2338 Posts
On August 12 2011 10:09 cjin wrote: I would not consider "I hope I don't press wrong icon when i have unused skillpoint" as hard or challenging. Just annoying. And anyone who wants unforgiving experience can just roll for hardmode char. Haven´t played Guild Wars, but what I have read, it have same kind of skillsystem. And it was so good they are using same for GW2. Yes, it may not be as huge timesink since you don´t need to levelup character all over again from lvl1 when you want to use new fotmspec. But on the other hand it means less income for goldfarmers as they can´t sell that many chars. I've played over 3000 hours on Guild Wars. It's one of my favorite games of all time. The difference is that the game is massive. There are so many things to do on a character besides building it up (hint : it takes less than a day to reach max level (20) without any help or rushing). It's not even comparable to diablo 3 that has less than 100 hours of gameplay on a character even if you decide to get through hell. The skill system in Guild Wars works because it would be irrational to do it any other way (since there are like 800+ skills in the game). | ||
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VPCursed
1044 Posts
I also came across something a developer said, with the rune system you are even able to create a wizard that works in melee, I think the amount of customization will far surpass that of d2. | ||
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NotJack
United States737 Posts
On August 12 2011 10:24 Kurr wrote: I've played over 3000 hours on Guild Wars. It's one of my favorite games of all time. The difference is that the game is massive. There are so many things to do on a character besides building it up (hint : it takes less than a day to reach max level (20) without any help or rushing). It's not even comparable to diablo 3 that has less than 100 hours of gameplay on a character even if you decide to get through hell. The skill system in Guild Wars works because it would be irrational to do it any other way (since there are like 800+ skills in the game). Okay, so how does that mean it won't work in Diablo 3? I feel like I'm giving rhetoric lessons. | ||
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
On August 12 2011 08:11 happyness wrote: Uhh I had fun with it. I liked having some characters that maybe weren't the best but were still fun and were (somewhat) unique. Sure, inferno isn't nearly as good as fireball, but it is fun to how an inferno sorc plays even if you can't get through hell with it. It's fun to have customization with your character and for there to be endless possibilites, even though most of the possibilities won't be as good as the ideal build. Think about it: Is there ever any reason to have more than one wizard in the game of you already have access to all the skills? I was never that hardcore into D2 though. That's the irony of this whole thing, blizz is trying to appeal to the casual gamer as much as possible when the casual gamer prefers customization. Nothing wrong with summoning, all you needed was decrepify  Definately one of the best one skill wonders.Not like customization is out of question. That's what the rune system is for. It's just that the mechanic of points isn't there anymore. | ||
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Kurr
Canada2338 Posts
On August 12 2011 10:32 NotJack wrote: Okay, so how does that mean it won't work in Diablo 3? I feel like I'm giving rhetoric lessons. It's an entirely different genre of game. Diablo 3 gives you a very limited amount of skills for each class. The replayability is already limited. This completely eliminates it (and eliminates the need to choose which skills to power up). It's not comparable. Diablo 3 will be over in terms of replayability as soon as you've made 1 of each character. It's horrible news. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On August 12 2011 10:38 Kurr wrote: It's an entirely different genre of game. Diablo 3 gives you a very limited amount of skills for each class. The replayability is already limited. This completely eliminates it (and eliminates the need to choose which skills to power up). It's not comparable. Diablo 3 will be over in terms of replayability as soon as you've made 1 of each character. It's horrible news. Then you are not complaining about the system, but the fact there is respec. Points or no points, you would still only need 1 of each class. What's the diference between switching from one build to another compared to switching runes or skills you have? The only thing that is really missing is deciding how many points you put in a skill, which I admit was part of the customization, but in a much smaller scale than what runes allow. If what you are actually complaining about is respec, I can see what you are saying, but is a completelly diferent argument. And now that even D2 has it, I doubt too many people weren't really expecting it to be in D3. | ||
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NotJack
United States737 Posts
On August 12 2011 10:38 Kurr wrote: It's an entirely different genre of game. Diablo 3 gives you a very limited amount of skills for each class. The replayability is already limited. This completely eliminates it (and eliminates the need to choose which skills to power up). It's not comparable. Diablo 3 will be over in terms of replayability as soon as you've made 1 of each character. It's horrible news. So you think the the majority of players who take the extra time to level every class will immediately stop after they finished leveling them? So you think more people leveled the same class multiple times in D2 to try different builds than people will enjoy experimenting with endless builds on one character in D3? So you think implementing a worse skill system is a good justification to having more replayability? Everything, everythinggggggg, you said was wrong. | ||
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Kurr
Canada2338 Posts
On August 12 2011 10:48 NotJack wrote: So you think the the majority of players who take the extra time to level every class will immediately stop after they finished leveling them? Not immediatly. Much faster than in Diablo 2 though So you think more people leveled the same class multiple times in D2 to try different builds than people will enjoy experimenting with endless builds on one character in D3? Absolutely. Endless builds? Please, it will take someone a few hours to try the different skill combos/runes. There's also the lost of the feeling of growth of your character (see below) So you think implementing a worse skill system is a good justification to having more replayability? It's not worse in my opinion, which has been the point of pretty much ALL my posts in this thread today. I like the fact that I need to CHOOSE between skills. It makes me feel like my character is actually gaining experience as I go along. When you can just switch at any point in time (and yes, that includes re-specs without any drawbacks for the other person who quoted me, although it's also about point distribution) you lose the immersion of the game. It works in an MMORPG like Guild Wars because it's a different type of game. Hack and Slash games are ALL about character development. Gaining experience, skills, attributes and loot and customizing your character however you want. Everything, everythinggggggg, you said was wrong. Bolded answers Why do you insist on being so condescending in every single one of your posts? You know you can make a post without trying to instigate me right? I know not everyone agrees with me; there's no need to use that tone. I don't agree with your points but I could respect your opinion if you learned how to share it. *edit : To add : I don't want a superman character that can do everything at once. It's boring. I want to make choices and play a character through a game. Go play Dragon Age for example : you make choices along the way and it's half the fun of the game to pick your skills and live with it. It's a bit different in Diablo because of the amount of skill points but it's the same concept. Your character grows in a certain path as you play it. I like being able to max 1 skill early or spread them out to have more skills whenever I want. I don't really like re-specs (at least, not if it's more than a 1 time end-game thing) either because they ruin the fun of training a character. | ||
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NotJack
United States737 Posts
Using a generous estimate, 90% of people who played D2 would stop on their first character somewhere from nm to hell because they have the skills they want and leveling up only makes them as good as they were in normal. They would then play another game for months until someone brings up D2 and were like "oh yeah that game was fun for a week I'll play it again". Blizzard clearly sees this and has made the change so your characters can be more flexible, and have more re-playability. The fact that there will be ideal builds (ignoring the rune time sink which already proves your points wrong) won't matter, as the simple fact that you can have such drastic role changes just by changing skills will keep playing their single classes, and effectively make each class many different classes. | ||
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Supamang
United States2298 Posts
People are sitting here saying that the no skill point system will do this or make that happen. What the fuck? Unless Im mistaken, Diablo 3 isnt out yet and no one even knows how many fucking skills each class has, no one even knows exactly how the skill progression will actually work. How the fuck are people even judging this system already? All I see is people going "Herp Derp! Its different from the game I grew up with! It must suck Herp Derp!" I loved Diablo 2. I made many successful characters starting from scratch all the way through Hell. I could probably play it right now and still have a great time. But you guys gotta stop jumping to conclusions before you even know whats going on. For the people that strongly object to D3 having a different skill system, please for the love of God explain what exactly is wrong with the D3 system. If you dont have any details that you can specifically cite from the D3 skill system, then kindly shut the fuck up and stop assuming things | ||
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NotJack
United States737 Posts
On August 12 2011 11:45 Supamang wrote: Why the fuck do people ALWAYS judge a game before it even comes out? People are sitting here saying that the no skill point system will do this or make that happen. What the fuck? Unless Im mistaken, Diablo 3 isnt out yet and no one even knows how many fucking skills each class has, no one even knows exactly how the skill progression will actually work. How the fuck are people even judging this system already? All I see is people going "Herp Derp! Its different from the game I grew up with! It must suck Herp Derp!" I loved Diablo 2. I made many successful characters starting from scratch all the way through Hell. I could probably play it right now and still have a great time. But you guys gotta stop jumping to conclusions before you even know whats going on. For the people that strongly object to D3 having a different skill system, please for the love of God explain what exactly is wrong with the D3 system. If you dont have any details that you can specifically cite from the D3 skill system, then kindly shut the fuck up and stop assuming things Amazing point, the Diablo 3 thread should only consist of what we did in Diablo 2 and not guessing or talking about what we know about Diablo 3. This guy gets it man. | ||
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Lavalamp799
United States554 Posts
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FoeHamr
United States489 Posts
On August 12 2011 11:54 Lavalamp799 wrote: I have never played Diablo 1 or 2, but for some reason I'm still pretty stoked for Diablo III. From what I've seen on youtube videos and such, it won't disappoint. Plus it's a Blizzard game, and as much hate as they get, they still put out great quality games and a good atmosphere. Coming off playing WoW over 3 years and SC2 about a year now, I'm hoping to add this to my list of loved games. This is exactly how I feel about it. I can't wait for some more gameplay footage and a release date. | ||
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Assault_1
Canada1950 Posts
On August 12 2011 11:51 NotJack wrote: Amazing point, the Diablo 3 thread should only consist of what we did in Diablo 2 and not guessing or talking about what we know about Diablo 3. This guy gets it man. are u being sarcastic? | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On August 12 2011 11:00 Kurr wrote: Bolded answers Why do you insist on being so condescending in every single one of your posts? You know you can make a post without trying to instigate me right? I know not everyone agrees with me; there's no need to use that tone. I don't agree with your points but I could respect your opinion if you learned how to share it. *edit : To add : I don't want a superman character that can do everything at once. It's boring. I want to make choices and play a character through a game. Go play Dragon Age for example : you make choices along the way and it's half the fun of the game to pick your skills and live with it. It's a bit different in Diablo because of the amount of skill points but it's the same concept. Your character grows in a certain path as you play it. I like being able to max 1 skill early or spread them out to have more skills whenever I want. I don't really like re-specs (at least, not if it's more than a 1 time end-game thing) either because they ruin the fun of training a character. I won't dispute everything you said point by point, but I would encourage you to consider how both Blizzard and the expectations of 'end game' have changed since Diablo 2. With the RMAH and different player expectations the end result of Diablo 2 has really changed. Previously in D2 you got where you wanted to with your character and then either farmed for wealth/e-peen or rerolled (or competed on ladder). With Diablo 3 it's going to be a very different end-game. Mainly you can expect casual PvP content as well as a more steady stream of PvE content. For better or worse Blizzard has a good incentive to keep new content (and power creep) rolling out in Diablo 3. Hopefully it's better and you can expect to be able to really take your character to new heights rather than hitting the end and then rerolling. Something like the Inferno difficulty, if done right, could really be an awesome challenge to keep players having fun with a 'maxxed out' character. | ||
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