EPTLet's remove one of the primary reasons people enjoy these games - character defined progression (skills etc)
gg
Diablo III General Discussion - Page 227
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IMABUNNEH
United Kingdom1062 Posts
Let's remove one of the primary reasons people enjoy these games - character defined progression (skills etc) gg | ||
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Ratbiters
United Kingdom24 Posts
Final Fantasy 7 was/is my favourite game, I spent countless hours playing it. I replayed it a few weeks ago and it's a piece of crap. Same for every single game I enjoyed 10+ years ago...Things move on and games evolve, what might have been fun years ago, might not be enjoyable now, so I personally don't hate on a game until I've actually played it | ||
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trainRiderJ
United States615 Posts
On August 12 2011 05:44 Ratbiters wrote: Let's hate on the game because it's not exactly the same as Diablo 2! Final Fantasy 7 was/is my favourite game, I spent countless hours playing it. I replayed it a few weeks ago and it's a piece of crap. Same for every single game I enjoyed 10+ years ago...Things move on and games evolve, what might have been fun years ago, might not be enjoyable now, so I personally don't hate on a game until I've actually played it uhh what | ||
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beg
991 Posts
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
On August 12 2011 04:35 Kurr wrote: The RMAH bothers me a little bit but it's not a huge deal for me. What REALLY bothers me is that attributes and skill points have essentially been removed. Blizzard goes on and on about loot being the biggest incentive to play. Well, for me, building up my character however I wanted was just as big a part as loot. How Blizzard can take away these things without thinking how it will negatively effect the game in every way is beyond me. RMAH auction house? Slight bother Graphics that look pretty boring? (no, colourful doesn't bother me, but D2 spells look A LOT more awesome than what we've seen in D3 videos which remind me more of WC3 spells) Slight bother Restricting weapons to certain classes? Slight bother Making every character a carbon copy of each other because of the lack of attributes and the new skill system? Deal breaker. Overall, I simply don't understand why they feel the need to dumb down an already easy to play game. Diablo 2 is pretty much the definition of pick up and play. It's easy as hell on normal. Who cares if your first few characters won't be perfect and able to beat higher difficulties, that's what brings you back. That's not to say they haven't made any changes that I'm all for (runes, crafting, skill bar, seperate loot), but I'm astonished that people care at all about the RMAH when there are much much more serious problems with the core gameplay. The skill points were removed because they weren't fun at all. In the end, the best character comes from math, not from something "cool". Building a character only to find out that, at lv 50, you character sucks because you didnt skill the right stuff sucks. That's why it was removed. Maybe three people had fun with it. I hate it on every game I see it. Damn, the only reason I don't play Pokémon competitively is the stupid and unnecessarily complicated EV/IV system. | ||
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zKamiz
Canada10 Posts
We all know how bad D2 was for accounts being hacked, duping items, etc. Now that there is an even easier way of gaining value for stolen/hacked items it makes sense that you would see a large growth of hackers. And Blizzard has already stated that they will not reimburse you for money lost to your account being hacked. Seems like the RMAH could really put a huge dent in user secuirty. D3's RMAH is basically an voluntary subscription. WoW's userbase is declining and Blizzard needs to find other ways of generating income. Better than making D3 a subscription based game. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
On August 12 2011 06:10 Zephirdd wrote: The skill points were removed because they weren't fun at all. In the end, the best character comes from math, not from something "cool". Building a character only to find out that, at lv 50, you character sucks because you didnt skill the right stuff sucks. That's why it was removed. Maybe three people had fun with it. I hate it on every game I see it. Damn, the only reason I don't play Pokémon competitively is the stupid and unnecessarily complicated EV/IV system. If you played WoW (and probably D2 as well), you know the problem with skill trees. More often then not there is a specific skill set that is much better than the others. You feel compelled to use it and there it turns out that there isn't much choice in it at all. There is also the problem that often the benefit of a spell is not immediately obvious. "Oh cool, big fireballs are awesome!" Well, actually if you get the faster fireballs, that's much better. This relates back to the concept of choice as well: You should be able to pick which one you think is 'cooler' and not a) bother yourself with having to figure out some obtuse math and b) feel compelled to pick the one that's better. Blizzard wants to give you actual choice to modify your spells so that you can use them however you want. My first experience with D2 was rather hilarious. A total noob, I made a zookeeper meleemancer, investing almost all my points in summoning. Everything was going swimmingly and I managed to kill Mephisto without too much trouble. And then I got to Diablo and watched in horror as he one shot all of my minions in seconds. Soon I was out of bodies to turn into skeletons and the golems weren't worth it. Luckily I leveled up just then and got...Rank 2 boneteeth. So I ran around Diablo for 45 minutes spamming Rank 2 boneteeth, running away when I got low on health. Worst. Bossfight. Ever. | ||
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Choo
United States126 Posts
My first experience with D2 was rather hilarious. A total noob, I made a zookeeper meleemancer, investing almost all my points in summoning. Everything was going swimmingly and I managed to kill Mephisto without too much trouble. And then I got to Diablo and watched in horror as he one shot all of my minions in seconds. Soon I was out of bodies to turn into skeletons and the golems weren't worth it. Luckily I leveled up just then and got...Rank 2 boneteeth. So I ran around Diablo for 45 minutes spamming Rank 2 boneteeth, running away when I got low on health. Worst. Bossfight. Ever. Yes, yes... but what did you do when you finally killed the big red demon? :D | ||
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Puph
Canada635 Posts
On August 12 2011 03:42 Bibdy wrote: Well, yes, you'd have to take into account the different fees, but at the end of the day, it's just a high-school level of math to work out if and how much profit you could make by grabbing an item off the GAH, and throwing it on the RMAH. And vice versa, of course. If there are tons of awesome swords on the RMAH for $1 a pop, but none of them on the GAH, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that you could invest just $1 (plus fees) to make an absolute shitton of in-game gold, that you could then use to make GAH->RMAH purchases (the ones described above). In the end, if you have in-depth knowledge of what people do and don't desire in the game, you can put it to good use and take part in gold/cash/item trading all day. I am also compelled to note that sending your RMAH profits to "Blizzard Points" (buy blizzard points online) would incur only 2 fees. I am assuming the 3rd tax, generic unnanounced paypal bullshit, is gonna be the heaviest to cap the possibility of making shit tons of money and in turn, giving yoiu a shitton of blizzard points. I guess you could play the D3 market to easily buy WoW time  I will assess the RMAH function and its money-making capabilities once I get a pre-ordered d3 and grind some fuggin levels while skipping every element of the story and hopefully be off work and possibly have school a few times a week. /plan | ||
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Kurr
Canada2338 Posts
On August 12 2011 06:10 Zephirdd wrote: The skill points were removed because they weren't fun at all. In the end, the best character comes from math, not from something "cool". Building a character only to find out that, at lv 50, you character sucks because you didnt skill the right stuff sucks. That's why it was removed. Maybe three people had fun with it. I hate it on every game I see it. Damn, the only reason I don't play Pokémon competitively is the stupid and unnecessarily complicated EV/IV system. I made plenty of terrible characters, both when I started and later on for fun in trying different builds. The best character is one that you enjoy playing. Three people had fun with it? Must be why Diablo/Diablo 2 made an entire genre succesful and still has people playing it. | ||
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hoby2000
United States918 Posts
On August 12 2011 07:49 Kurr wrote: I made plenty of terrible characters, both when I started and later on for fun in trying different builds. The best character is one that you enjoy playing. Three people had fun with it? Must be why Diablo/Diablo 2 made an entire genre succesful and still has people playing it. I think he was exaggerating the number of people that enjoyed it for that reason, but I still think his point is valid. The Diablo 2 skill system, while it was fun and worked for Diablo 2, shouldn't be in Diablo 3. I say this simply because then it's just Diablo 2.5. I know it's personal opinion, but I believe a sequel should be able to stand on it's own. Diablo did, and then Diablo 2 used a COMPLETELY different skill system, but was still fun. Both games have their fun parts, but they're not the same. Diablo 3's skill system will be different, and in time we will find if it sucks or not. Someone brought up Final Fantasy 7, but kind of screwed up the example. I would like to use the entire Final Fantasy series as an example that a game's system changing is only a good thing. Look at how many amazing Final Fantasy games there are. Hell, some people don't enjoy FF7''s system, but I like it. I also liked 9's system, and 10's skill sphere. The liscence system wasn't the best in 12, but was still fun. The point is that these RPG systems change because it would be really easy for them to just release Diablo 2.5, and call it good. It would be easy for any musician (and some do) to recycle things they've done before. Most rappers just use other people's music, but then remix it to sound amazing. While Kanye West is a jackass, you can bet he's the best damn producer in hip-hop( Don't believe? Check out "Watch the Throne" by Mr. West and Jay-Z). So Blizzard could've gone the easy route, kept the same skill tree system, (and in fact I think they had the skill tree in mind as we saw in previous versions of Diablo 3), but they didn't because they wanted to try something new. In my opinion, Blizzard has always been doing this with games since their conception, and it's a shock how people freak out when they decide to change something in the sequel. Warcraft I and Warcraft II completely different games. Warcraft III is more different than both of those games. The same can EASILY be said about BW and SC2. I gave examples of Diablo 1 and 2 above, showing you that when they go with a new system, they usually nail it on the head pretty well. Off Topic: While typing this entire response out, I realized something - Does anyone else notice how runestones are similar to Materia? The slots aren't attached to weapons, and they don't evolve... but that wouldn't really fit with Diablo-esque gameplay. Randomly finding runestones works really well with the fact that they won't evolve like Materia, because they don't want to control exactly where you find said runestones. | ||
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happyness
United States2400 Posts
On August 12 2011 06:10 Zephirdd wrote: The skill points were removed because they weren't fun at all. In the end, the best character comes from math, not from something "cool". Building a character only to find out that, at lv 50, you character sucks because you didnt skill the right stuff sucks. That's why it was removed. Maybe three people had fun with it. I hate it on every game I see it. Damn, the only reason I don't play Pokémon competitively is the stupid and unnecessarily complicated EV/IV system. Uhh I had fun with it. I liked having some characters that maybe weren't the best but were still fun and were (somewhat) unique. Sure, inferno isn't nearly as good as fireball, but it is fun to how an inferno sorc plays even if you can't get through hell with it. It's fun to have customization with your character and for there to be endless possibilites, even though most of the possibilities won't be as good as the ideal build. Think about it: Is there ever any reason to have more than one wizard in the game of you already have access to all the skills? I was never that hardcore into D2 though. That's the irony of this whole thing, blizz is trying to appeal to the casual gamer as much as possible when the casual gamer prefers customization. My first experience with D2 was rather hilarious. A total noob, I made a zookeeper meleemancer, investing almost all my points in summoning. Everything was going swimmingly and I managed to kill Mephisto without too much trouble. And then I got to Diablo and watched in horror as he one shot all of my minions in seconds. Soon I was out of bodies to turn into skeletons and the golems weren't worth it. Luckily I leveled up just then and got...Rank 2 boneteeth. So I ran around Diablo for 45 minutes spamming Rank 2 boneteeth, running away when I got low on health. Worst. Bossfight. Ever. Nothing wrong with summoning, all you needed was decrepify  Definately one of the best one skill wonders. | ||
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Aruno
New Zealand748 Posts
The ability to change when and how you like. Seems like what cheaters did in Diablo 2. It makes for unchallenging, low thinking experience. Why cannot they just make Diablo 3 unforgiving?  I feel like a "retro" gamer, asking for games to be hard again >_< | ||
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Pufftrees
2449 Posts
On August 12 2011 08:28 Aruno wrote: If Diablo 3 is a no mistakes games. Then I will be very annoyed. One of the things I got a lot of satisfaction out of, was working out mistakes in characters I made. It would force you to think long term. The ability to change when and how you like. Seems like what cheaters did in Diablo 2. It makes for unchallenging, low thinking experience. Why cannot they just make Diablo 3 unforgiving? I feel like a "retro" gamer, asking for games to be hard again >_< The internet wasn't as prevalent when d2 came out, the builds would be figured out before the game was ever released and mistakes wouldn't be made in the first place. The optimal stat setup for endgame armor and everything would just be a set list you lookup online, avoiding that doesn't make it less forgiving. | ||
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Holcan
Canada2593 Posts
when i decked out my hydra/static/orb sorc, she was untouchable ~~ :D (jk of course, FB, CL, and blizz sorcs were all better by this point) | ||
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sephius
United Kingdom200 Posts
On August 12 2011 05:44 Ratbiters wrote: Let's hate on the game because it's not exactly the same as Diablo 2! Final Fantasy 7 was/is my favourite game, I spent countless hours playing it. I replayed it a few weeks ago and it's a piece of crap. Same for every single game I enjoyed 10+ years ago...Things move on and games evolve, what might have been fun years ago, might not be enjoyable now, so I personally don't hate on a game until I've actually played it Do one. | ||
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NotJack
United States737 Posts
On August 12 2011 08:28 Aruno wrote: If Diablo 3 is a no mistakes games. Then I will be very annoyed. One of the things I got a lot of satisfaction out of, was working out mistakes in characters I made. It would force you to think long term. The ability to change when and how you like. Seems like what cheaters did in Diablo 2. It makes for unchallenging, low thinking experience. Why cannot they just make Diablo 3 unforgiving? I feel like a "retro" gamer, asking for games to be hard again >_< If that's what you think makes a game hard you're a huge casual. | ||
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
On August 12 2011 08:28 Aruno wrote: If Diablo 3 is a no mistakes games. Then I will be very annoyed. One of the things I got a lot of satisfaction out of, was working out mistakes in characters I made. It would force you to think long term. The ability to change when and how you like. Seems like what cheaters did in Diablo 2. It makes for unchallenging, low thinking experience. Why cannot they just make Diablo 3 unforgiving? I feel like a "retro" gamer, asking for games to be hard again >_< Compare Pokemon on console to Netbattle/Shoddy battle | ||
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magicmUnky
Australia280 Posts
I played it when I was a kid and haven't looked at it since... any tips? | ||
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Assault_1
Canada1950 Posts
On August 12 2011 09:30 magicmUnky wrote: Sooo.... I'm kinda keen to go back and play diablo 1 or 2... are they worth it? Anything a newb should know in particular for Diablo 1? I played it when I was a kid and haven't looked at it since... any tips? just play diablo 2/LOD and read diablo 1 story.. d1 has a nice atmosphere but is really slow-paced. It might give you a bad impression. | ||
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