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On October 24 2014 07:07 KillerDucky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2014 07:01 Yorbon wrote:http://goproblems.com/15749I got the right answer to this problem by using an intuitive argument (I tried to prevent black from getting an eye on L11 by putting a stone on L10), but to be honest, I really don't understand it. The comments didn't really help me either. Can anyone explain what the point of the problem is exactly? Sorry for the question, but I think Im missing some basic stuff here ): http://senseis.xmp.net/?EyeVersusNoEyeCapturingRaceA group with 1 eye has the advantage vs a group with 0 eyes in a capturing race. So the point is to change it into a 0 eyes vs 0 eyes situation. Then it's a seki. If black makes en eyes, he wins the capturing race.
Ah, in that context it makes a lot more sense indeed. Thanks!
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Done 
I'm not quite comfortable enough to start playing against players yet though, I first of all want to just do exercises and get a feel for the game.
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Perfect! I'm going to do puzzles every morning instead of jumping straight into a match!
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On October 24 2014 05:40 nimbim wrote:
KGS also comes with handy review tools, the ability to save reviews and a lot of people to play against. I don't play very often anymore unfortunately, but usually everyone in the teamliquid channel is very nice and will help beginners. I met my teacher there and he basically carried me from 25k to 1k with countless reviews. The go community is just great, because many strong players are interested in teaching the game to spread it.
This is my big appeal as well; for online competitive games like CSGO/LoL, it can be a bit difficult to find some people to help or play with/against + the communities can get abrasive.
With Go, there's a lot of pride and interest in teaching new players and almost a sense of duty and responsibility to breed newcomers into proper players. That and the undertone of honor and politeness is something that makes me feel really sage and relaxed when playing. I get frustrated when I lose, but it is a different frustration where I don't feel the bitterness of my opponent winning, implicitly smug (for some reason) but rather just disappointed in my own lack of ability and that inner-desire to persevere!
I don't know, strange mix of feelings playing Go that make me really calm.
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To be fair I think peace of mind is a must when playing Go.
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Ugh... I can't run gokgs. My computer's clock is fucked up and resets itself to the wrong time every few hours (yeah, I need a new computer). This causes Java to block some Java apps, like gokgs. I'll try to mess with Java settings... Some day. But for now, what's the next best online and offline stuff for playing and watching go?
EDIT: Well. Got the browser client working. I think? Won't let me create an account. And about gobase.org: I need to donate 20 euros to see the archived games on that website?
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On October 25 2014 11:05 Capricis wrote:
Ugh... I can't run gokgs. My computer's clock is fucked up and resets itself to the wrong time every few hours (yeah, I need a new computer). This causes Java to block some Java apps, like gokgs. I'll try to mess with Java settings... Some day. But for now, what's the next best online and offline stuff for playing and watching go?
http://online-go.com/
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You can play on Tygem http://www.tygemgo.com/
Mostly Koreans and Chinese are there, but you can watch Tygem 9D vs 9D games pretty much all day. I don't recommend this server for beginners, the lowest rank there is 18k I believe and the kyu ranks are full of sandbaggers.
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I played my first game against an opponent and got smashed in a 9x9 game. Nothing weird, but I'd like to ask your opinions on the situation at the start of the game as well as your opinions on my considerations. This is how the game was played the first few moves, starting with black, my opponent (i was white) :
D-6 -> F-4 -> F-6 -> C-4 -> D-4 -> D-3
Ok, so my opponent began with D-6, which wasnt really what I expected. This move seems somewhat aggressive, aiming towards the centre immediately. Is this a standard opening? If so, what are the considerations in the continuation? Is it an overextension? How am I supposed to punish it? I've (in my head) been playing around with C-7 as my next move, going for that corner, so his play feels 'in the middle' not doing anything, unless he commits to an attack. I'm not sure how that will play out, though.
I played F-4 as my first move; I just copied my opponent. Would G-3 have been a better choice? Or am I giving my opponent too much of a space advantage that way? Suppose we played F-4 -> G-3 -> G-7 -> C-3, would I be able to put enough pressure on the left side to counter his presence in the middle?
My opponent played F-6, and I decided to 'just do something' and played C-4. My opponent decided to step in and play D-4. I went defensive and played D-3. C-4 probably is just bad in those situations. I was wondering though, is playing D-3 is too defensive? I tried to think about playing D-5 instead of D-3, but I couldn't really find anything good after black's E-5. I have thought about E-5 after black's D-4, and I think I can at least seperate one of blacks stones, preventing they form one big group, although I'm not sure about the drawbacks that may have.
I'm pretty insecure about anything I've said so far. Can some of you point me in the right direction regarding general principles?
In case anyone's interested, link to the entire game: http://online-go.com/game/1014407
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Take what I say with a grain of salt. My experience on the 9x9 board is lacking.
The opening through D3 is reasonable for both sides, though probably not optimal. D3 is necessary, otherwise your position will desintegrate. It's a good move.
Typical opening moves are c7 or c6 as well as just taking the middle with e5. Your opponents move in the game D6 seems a half-measure. It doesn't really commit to controlling the centre like e5 does, but still leaves white with the opportunity to invade the top left corner with c7 later.
If I were in your position I'd first build a solid position with 2 (or 3 possibly, depending on blacks moves) stones on the lower sight of the board and the invade at c7 to neutralize the top side.
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On October 25 2014 22:37 Hagen0 wrote:
Take what I say with a grain of salt. My experience on the 9x9 board is lacking.
The opening through D3 is reasonable for both sides, though probably not optimal. D3 is necessary, otherwise your position will desintegrate. It's a good move.
Typical opening moves are c7 or c6 as well as just taking the middle with e5. Your opponents move in the game D6 seems a half-measure. It doesn't really commit to controlling the centre like e5 does, but still leaves white with the opportunity to invade the top left corner with c7 later.
If I were in your position I'd first build a solid position with 2 (or 3 possibly, depending on blacks moves) stones on the lower sight of the board and the invade at c7 to neutralize the top side. Thanks for the reply!
Would you think building the solid position in the bottom should be started at the third row? So instead of F-4 as a first move, i maybe should've answered G-3 going into C-3 and E-4 for example? Dependent of course on opponent's play, but would that shape be all right for the purpose of getting a solid position?
Or are you talking about after the D-3 move?
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I think this game shows the character of 9x9 pretty well... When playing the typical wallbuilding game, you can easily lose in the first 4 moves on 9x9... But in fighting games, even on move 15+ the result can be unclear.
Playing 4-4 (D6) on first move is rather unusual on 9x9 as it is usually losing to G3. When he jumps too far on his third move you can always invade on 3-3 under him, if he jumps close, White can expand farther and win by komi. But F4 basically copies the mistake, and the way Black played it afterwards was quite good.
One could argue, that your move 4 could be played elsewhere, but I feel it is quite difficult at this point already. If you invade 3-3 now in the topleft, you will end in gote and then suffer in the lower right, as you have no secured base there.
The sequence that happens afterwards is pretty standard until move 15, but it is a straight path to losing for white. No point in discussing what happened afterwards 
But all I said has to be discounted a bit by the fact, that the players here were double digit kyus. This makes the oucome of such moves much less predictable. Only because for Dan players the game can be easily over by move 4, it does not mean, a beginner should think "uh, first 4 moves, gg!" And as I said above... you can easily get into fighting games, that are difficult and undecided for quite some time so 9x9 wins back some appeal once stronger.
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White still may have a chance after answering D4 D3 C5 with the atari at E4. If black defends at D5 white's lower side is now more stable due to E4 and white can invade at G7. If black plays something like G5 instead he probably has the game but he has to play in a surprisingly precise way to force the win.
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Thanks again for the replies, i felt i learned a lot by reading your replies and thinking them over.
@mahrgell: a question: I'm afraid I don't really get this sentence: "When he jumps too far on his third move you can always invade on 3-3 under him, if he jumps close, White can expand farther and win by komi."
I assume by 'his third move', you mean move 3 of the game, moved by my opponent (or his second move)?
What do exactly mean by jumping too close or too far in this context?
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Can someone take a look at my 9x9 game and comment? I'm pretty sure I made a over-play here and wanted to ask how my play could have been punished.
https://online-go.com/game/1022912
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On October 26 2014 06:40 Yorbon wrote:
Thanks again for the replies, i felt i learned a lot by reading your replies and thinking them over.
@mahrgell: a question: I'm afraid I don't really get this sentence: "When he jumps too far on his third move you can always invade on 3-3 under him, if he jumps close, White can expand farther and win by komi."
I assume by 'his third move', you mean move 3 of the game, moved by my opponent (or his second move)?
What do exactly mean by jumping too close or too far in this context?
I meant move3 of the game, counting total number of moves and not moves per player is pretty much standard in Go.
About your question:
When he one space jumps (or one off to the side) in any direction, a 3-3 invasion in the topleft becomes more difficult and less attractive and his corner is more secure. But White can simply win on the remaining board, as he moves too slow to keep up.
If he decides to 2 space jump, one off from it or something completely different... a 3-3 invasion remains easily possible.
Clear?
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On October 27 2014 09:53 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2014 06:40 Yorbon wrote:
Thanks again for the replies, i felt i learned a lot by reading your replies and thinking them over.
@mahrgell: a question: I'm afraid I don't really get this sentence: "When he jumps too far on his third move you can always invade on 3-3 under him, if he jumps close, White can expand farther and win by komi."
I assume by 'his third move', you mean move 3 of the game, moved by my opponent (or his second move)?
What do exactly mean by jumping too close or too far in this context?
I meant move3 of the game, counting total number of moves and not moves per player is pretty much standard in Go. About your question: When he one space jumps (or one off to the side) in any direction, a 3-3 invasion in the topleft becomes more difficult and less attractive and his corner is more secure. But White can simply win on the remaining board, as he moves too slow to keep up. If he decides to 2 space jump, one off from it or something completely different... a 3-3 invasion remains easily possible. Clear?
I was a bit confused by the words far and close, but put this way it's quite clear. Thanks again.
@ Hesmyrr: I'm afraid I'm not good enough to comment on your game the way you'd like, but I was wondering about one thing. Move number 27 was played at H4 probably (?) to prevent cuts at that location. However, I felt more for a(n in my eyes) more dynamic defense at J4, indirectly defending both H4 and J3. What do you guys think, would that work out all right?
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On October 27 2014 09:20 Hesmyrr wrote:Can someone take a look at my 9x9 game and comment? I'm pretty sure I made a over-play here and wanted to ask how my play could have been punished. https://online-go.com/game/1022912
Until move 24 there is not much I would argue about on your level. Pretty solid play from both sides there. (I don't say it couldn't be done better, but that would require more analysis then useful here for learning purposes)
Move 25 is the first major mistake. Just H4 without doing that exchange would be better here. You are not exactly making it easier to kill him here by playing those moves and he can't make 2 eyes locally anyway (but the cut at E4 makes the situation very interesting.)
His move 36 at J1 is really bad, because he only focusses on making life via Ko. But when it is Ko anyway... It would be much better for him to create the Ko in a way you can also not afford to lose it. So he should just cut E4 and Black would be in huge trouble after E4-D3-F5. (it would turn into a Ko, that is unwinnable for Black, as White has local threats, Black doesn't)
But he gives you a chance. If you thought carefully about my last comment, you know which move is a MUST on move 37. It is not the move you played...
If you just connect E4 here, without even taking the Ko first (if you do, he can play it as threat), his group is still not alive, he still has to win the Ko. But even worse. In fact his entire center is simply dead. You could cut at F6, or just play B4 to show him that he has no eyespace while you are perfectly connected.
J3 is simply bad. To win the race you have to play Ko anyway. Spending a move that pretends to avoid a Ko which is still there is wasted.
Now in the resulting Ko you waste another move. D1 doesn't do anything. It should be at F1/2. Just imagine taking his stones via the Ko. For that you have to play F1 and F2 anyway... If you capture 2 more stones with D1 does not matter. Also you can't shortcut by getting in from the other side. It really just wastes another move.
But if properly played, after playing F1 White still wins the Ko, as he wins by one threat. Black could make life in the bottom left with his final threat, but White would win with about 5-8 points (so komi +- a few)
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Thanks for the analysis. I was actually white but you comprehensively covered both sides anyway. Move 36 is reflection of my poor understanding regarding Ko. I know how to seize the opportunity when such situation end up happening, but I can't - or likely even don't know how to - anticipate or plan for one in advance. Due to time constraint I suspected it might be something else but now I see it's not due to the fact that I have guaranteed eye. I also picked H5 over F5 because of worry about black H6/J6, another concern which I realize is unfounded after more critical look under no time constraint.
The reason why I posted the game is because of move 20 at G3. I recognized the need to play down there but wanted to extend upper-right stones one step further because it didn't feel "secure enough", which in retrospect was too passive of me. When black played at H3, I panic invaded with little expectation it was going to live (invasions are another thing I am clueless about). So I wanted to know if it would have died assuming black play perfectly... but after some analysis looks like I could have made Ko no matter what I think? (If black H4, E2-D2-E4-D3-F1 for one eye space in gote) I guess that's what you mean by E4 cut, since if I E4 right after hypothetical black H4, black E2 kills.
One thing I also wanted to ask about is my strategy. I am pretty sure I lost after move 5 to 16. Two black stones are way too close for me to successfully utilize my wall. If black decided to make me leave small on the corner... for example, play E4 as move 33 instead of J2, I think my center group outright dies (never mind the need to save the corner in gote) which means my G3 invasion wasn't good idea to begin with regardless of life-or-death? What should I have played as move 18 to better myself, or was my response to black E7 wrong from the very start?
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EPT
