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On August 11 2010 05:36 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 05:32 red_ wrote:On August 11 2010 05:29 Shikyo wrote:On August 11 2010 05:26 barbsq wrote:On August 11 2010 05:22 Mogwai wrote:
rylai's is awful on Ryze IMO. if you're going tear, archangels is always eventually a good idea, but I doubt you should be getting it that early. Maybe grab RoA after sorc boots, then z-ring, then archangels? That makes sense to me for maximizing AP and Mana for nuking while keeping some survivability. SS seems like a bad call because you have no escape mechanics. If the other team wants you dead, you're probably gonna die, so keeping stacks seems like a nightmare. i always run ghost/flash with masteries so sometimes i feel ok about getting ss ^.^ also rylais is kinda cool just kus you basically get aoe slow, but yeah, doesnt really fit that well on him, esp since it lacks mana edit: @ shikyo, i rarely find a game where i can get 2 roas in a timely manner, so this seems kinda silly, unless you're expecting a longass game So you can't farm 6k in 20 minutes? Well I can. A 'fast' RoA is like, 12 minutes, your typical 'I'm having a solid game but didn't get fed' RoA is closer to 15. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that if we had a sort of TL inhouse, you'd never get close to 2 RoA's at 20 minutes. Maybe you'd get 1+ a catalyst, with no boots, starting with sapphire crystal instead of doran's ring(which means you'll probably get zoned by decent players, and not get your farm, unless you're Morgana maybe?) i think the only person who one could reasonably expect to farm double roa's in 20 minutes would be heimer, and that would def be under optimal conditions.
Done it with Singed multiple times. 20 min double RoA on Ryze requires you to destroy your lane or solo mid/top though.
EDIT: btw the Frozen Heart is specifically aimed for bringing you to max CDR with the new Q passive after the patch. With max CDR your full AoE combo is insane, and with 4000 hp and 150+ armor you are difficult to kill. Surprisingly difficult for Ryze O_o
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On August 11 2010 05:37 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 05:36 barbsq wrote:On August 11 2010 05:32 red_ wrote:On August 11 2010 05:29 Shikyo wrote:On August 11 2010 05:26 barbsq wrote:On August 11 2010 05:22 Mogwai wrote:
rylai's is awful on Ryze IMO. if you're going tear, archangels is always eventually a good idea, but I doubt you should be getting it that early. Maybe grab RoA after sorc boots, then z-ring, then archangels? That makes sense to me for maximizing AP and Mana for nuking while keeping some survivability. SS seems like a bad call because you have no escape mechanics. If the other team wants you dead, you're probably gonna die, so keeping stacks seems like a nightmare. i always run ghost/flash with masteries so sometimes i feel ok about getting ss ^.^ also rylais is kinda cool just kus you basically get aoe slow, but yeah, doesnt really fit that well on him, esp since it lacks mana edit: @ shikyo, i rarely find a game where i can get 2 roas in a timely manner, so this seems kinda silly, unless you're expecting a longass game So you can't farm 6k in 20 minutes? Well I can. A 'fast' RoA is like, 12 minutes, your typical 'I'm having a solid game but didn't get fed' RoA is closer to 15. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that if we had a sort of TL inhouse, you'd never get close to 2 RoA's at 20 minutes. Maybe you'd get 1+ a catalyst, with no boots, starting with sapphire crystal instead of doran's ring(which means you'll probably get zoned by decent players, and not get your farm, unless you're Morgana maybe?) i think the only person who one could reasonably expect to farm double roa's in 20 minutes would be heimer, and that would def be under optimal conditions. Done it with Singed multiple times. 20 min double RoA on Ryze requires you to destroy your lane or solo mid/top though.
wat.... i have a friend who main'd singed (bobthegldfsh) and he always says lvls 1-6 are always the hardest for him, i fail to see how one could 'easily' farm double roa on him in 20 unless the lane was a pushover
edit: also i didnt really argue with frozen heart, i did say insert defensive item as needed, and it definitely fits as a good ryze defensive item
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On August 11 2010 05:40 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 05:37 Shikyo wrote:On August 11 2010 05:36 barbsq wrote:On August 11 2010 05:32 red_ wrote:On August 11 2010 05:29 Shikyo wrote:On August 11 2010 05:26 barbsq wrote:On August 11 2010 05:22 Mogwai wrote:
rylai's is awful on Ryze IMO. if you're going tear, archangels is always eventually a good idea, but I doubt you should be getting it that early. Maybe grab RoA after sorc boots, then z-ring, then archangels? That makes sense to me for maximizing AP and Mana for nuking while keeping some survivability. SS seems like a bad call because you have no escape mechanics. If the other team wants you dead, you're probably gonna die, so keeping stacks seems like a nightmare. i always run ghost/flash with masteries so sometimes i feel ok about getting ss ^.^ also rylais is kinda cool just kus you basically get aoe slow, but yeah, doesnt really fit that well on him, esp since it lacks mana edit: @ shikyo, i rarely find a game where i can get 2 roas in a timely manner, so this seems kinda silly, unless you're expecting a longass game So you can't farm 6k in 20 minutes? Well I can. A 'fast' RoA is like, 12 minutes, your typical 'I'm having a solid game but didn't get fed' RoA is closer to 15. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that if we had a sort of TL inhouse, you'd never get close to 2 RoA's at 20 minutes. Maybe you'd get 1+ a catalyst, with no boots, starting with sapphire crystal instead of doran's ring(which means you'll probably get zoned by decent players, and not get your farm, unless you're Morgana maybe?) i think the only person who one could reasonably expect to farm double roa's in 20 minutes would be heimer, and that would def be under optimal conditions. Done it with Singed multiple times. 20 min double RoA on Ryze requires you to destroy your lane or solo mid/top though. wat.... i have a friend who mains singed (bobthegldfsh) and he always says lvls 1-6 are always the hardest for him, i fail to see how one could 'easily' farm double roa on him in 20 unless the lane was a pushover
Well, I normally start with hp pendant and hence can lasthit and just heal it up. I run heal/ghost on singed and normally win the lane assuming my partner is decent. If my partner has a stun it's always a sure win. Yes, it's kind of tough at that point, but 20 minutes is more like lvl 1-12 and Singed is such a midgame dominator you should grab quite a few kills or assists. Normally the first RoA is done at like 13-16 minutes but the second one is almost instant because you're just insane with the RoA.
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On August 11 2010 05:36 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 05:32 red_ wrote:On August 11 2010 05:29 Shikyo wrote:On August 11 2010 05:26 barbsq wrote:On August 11 2010 05:22 Mogwai wrote:
rylai's is awful on Ryze IMO. if you're going tear, archangels is always eventually a good idea, but I doubt you should be getting it that early. Maybe grab RoA after sorc boots, then z-ring, then archangels? That makes sense to me for maximizing AP and Mana for nuking while keeping some survivability. SS seems like a bad call because you have no escape mechanics. If the other team wants you dead, you're probably gonna die, so keeping stacks seems like a nightmare. i always run ghost/flash with masteries so sometimes i feel ok about getting ss ^.^ also rylais is kinda cool just kus you basically get aoe slow, but yeah, doesnt really fit that well on him, esp since it lacks mana edit: @ shikyo, i rarely find a game where i can get 2 roas in a timely manner, so this seems kinda silly, unless you're expecting a longass game So you can't farm 6k in 20 minutes? Well I can. A 'fast' RoA is like, 12 minutes, your typical 'I'm having a solid game but didn't get fed' RoA is closer to 15. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that if we had a sort of TL inhouse, you'd never get close to 2 RoA's at 20 minutes. Maybe you'd get 1+ a catalyst, with no boots, starting with sapphire crystal instead of doran's ring(which means you'll probably get zoned by decent players, and not get your farm, unless you're Morgana maybe?) You get quite a bit of gold from the early kills Ryze should get and the second one doesn't need to be any faster than your Archangels or any other item would need to be. Ryze needs the hp and mana and so you should get them. They don't even need to build up to be good on him, it's just a bonus. And even on a dual lane I get amazing farm, and especially if you're owning them like you should with Ryze, the RoAs should be quite speedy. Yeah I wouldn't have good farm in a TL.net inhouse because US server lags and I can't lasthit there
WTF are you on about, talking like Ryze is some dominant force in the lane? Are the euro players really that much worse than NA?
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On August 11 2010 05:44 red_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 05:36 Shikyo wrote:On August 11 2010 05:32 red_ wrote:On August 11 2010 05:29 Shikyo wrote:On August 11 2010 05:26 barbsq wrote:On August 11 2010 05:22 Mogwai wrote:
rylai's is awful on Ryze IMO. if you're going tear, archangels is always eventually a good idea, but I doubt you should be getting it that early. Maybe grab RoA after sorc boots, then z-ring, then archangels? That makes sense to me for maximizing AP and Mana for nuking while keeping some survivability. SS seems like a bad call because you have no escape mechanics. If the other team wants you dead, you're probably gonna die, so keeping stacks seems like a nightmare. i always run ghost/flash with masteries so sometimes i feel ok about getting ss ^.^ also rylais is kinda cool just kus you basically get aoe slow, but yeah, doesnt really fit that well on him, esp since it lacks mana edit: @ shikyo, i rarely find a game where i can get 2 roas in a timely manner, so this seems kinda silly, unless you're expecting a longass game So you can't farm 6k in 20 minutes? Well I can. A 'fast' RoA is like, 12 minutes, your typical 'I'm having a solid game but didn't get fed' RoA is closer to 15. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that if we had a sort of TL inhouse, you'd never get close to 2 RoA's at 20 minutes. Maybe you'd get 1+ a catalyst, with no boots, starting with sapphire crystal instead of doran's ring(which means you'll probably get zoned by decent players, and not get your farm, unless you're Morgana maybe?) You get quite a bit of gold from the early kills Ryze should get and the second one doesn't need to be any faster than your Archangels or any other item would need to be. Ryze needs the hp and mana and so you should get them. They don't even need to build up to be good on him, it's just a bonus. And even on a dual lane I get amazing farm, and especially if you're owning them like you should with Ryze, the RoAs should be quite speedy. Yeah I wouldn't have good farm in a TL.net inhouse because US server lags and I can't lasthit there WTF are you on about, talking like Ryze is some dominant force in the lane? Are the euro players really that much worse than NA?
Eh he's a good laner o_O What do you mean?
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8751 Posts
On August 11 2010 05:47 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 05:44 red_ wrote:On August 11 2010 05:36 Shikyo wrote:On August 11 2010 05:32 red_ wrote:On August 11 2010 05:29 Shikyo wrote:On August 11 2010 05:26 barbsq wrote:On August 11 2010 05:22 Mogwai wrote:
rylai's is awful on Ryze IMO. if you're going tear, archangels is always eventually a good idea, but I doubt you should be getting it that early. Maybe grab RoA after sorc boots, then z-ring, then archangels? That makes sense to me for maximizing AP and Mana for nuking while keeping some survivability. SS seems like a bad call because you have no escape mechanics. If the other team wants you dead, you're probably gonna die, so keeping stacks seems like a nightmare. i always run ghost/flash with masteries so sometimes i feel ok about getting ss ^.^ also rylais is kinda cool just kus you basically get aoe slow, but yeah, doesnt really fit that well on him, esp since it lacks mana edit: @ shikyo, i rarely find a game where i can get 2 roas in a timely manner, so this seems kinda silly, unless you're expecting a longass game So you can't farm 6k in 20 minutes? Well I can. A 'fast' RoA is like, 12 minutes, your typical 'I'm having a solid game but didn't get fed' RoA is closer to 15. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that if we had a sort of TL inhouse, you'd never get close to 2 RoA's at 20 minutes. Maybe you'd get 1+ a catalyst, with no boots, starting with sapphire crystal instead of doran's ring(which means you'll probably get zoned by decent players, and not get your farm, unless you're Morgana maybe?) You get quite a bit of gold from the early kills Ryze should get and the second one doesn't need to be any faster than your Archangels or any other item would need to be. Ryze needs the hp and mana and so you should get them. They don't even need to build up to be good on him, it's just a bonus. And even on a dual lane I get amazing farm, and especially if you're owning them like you should with Ryze, the RoAs should be quite speedy. Yeah I wouldn't have good farm in a TL.net inhouse because US server lags and I can't lasthit there WTF are you on about, talking like Ryze is some dominant force in the lane? Are the euro players really that much worse than NA? Eh he's a good laner o_O What do you mean?
I agree. Of course it depends who the other 3 people in the lane are but generally Ryze does well with mana regen + E and the threat of burst.
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Hey, Nony agrees with me!
But yeah Ryze has a really nice nice ranged attack for harrass, and can spam E much like Katarina spams her blades. After E you can W and Q if you want and if you skilled them already, and they should drop to like half hp. Just needs some mana regen, and the masteries, Doran's Ring, and runes help with that. With SoS he also has some nice regen to keep it up. Also has a snare for your teammate to utilize.
Why do you think Ryze is weak on a lane?
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On August 11 2010 05:50 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 05:47 Shikyo wrote:On August 11 2010 05:44 red_ wrote:On August 11 2010 05:36 Shikyo wrote:On August 11 2010 05:32 red_ wrote:On August 11 2010 05:29 Shikyo wrote:On August 11 2010 05:26 barbsq wrote:On August 11 2010 05:22 Mogwai wrote:
rylai's is awful on Ryze IMO. if you're going tear, archangels is always eventually a good idea, but I doubt you should be getting it that early. Maybe grab RoA after sorc boots, then z-ring, then archangels? That makes sense to me for maximizing AP and Mana for nuking while keeping some survivability. SS seems like a bad call because you have no escape mechanics. If the other team wants you dead, you're probably gonna die, so keeping stacks seems like a nightmare. i always run ghost/flash with masteries so sometimes i feel ok about getting ss ^.^ also rylais is kinda cool just kus you basically get aoe slow, but yeah, doesnt really fit that well on him, esp since it lacks mana edit: @ shikyo, i rarely find a game where i can get 2 roas in a timely manner, so this seems kinda silly, unless you're expecting a longass game So you can't farm 6k in 20 minutes? Well I can. A 'fast' RoA is like, 12 minutes, your typical 'I'm having a solid game but didn't get fed' RoA is closer to 15. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that if we had a sort of TL inhouse, you'd never get close to 2 RoA's at 20 minutes. Maybe you'd get 1+ a catalyst, with no boots, starting with sapphire crystal instead of doran's ring(which means you'll probably get zoned by decent players, and not get your farm, unless you're Morgana maybe?) You get quite a bit of gold from the early kills Ryze should get and the second one doesn't need to be any faster than your Archangels or any other item would need to be. Ryze needs the hp and mana and so you should get them. They don't even need to build up to be good on him, it's just a bonus. And even on a dual lane I get amazing farm, and especially if you're owning them like you should with Ryze, the RoAs should be quite speedy. Yeah I wouldn't have good farm in a TL.net inhouse because US server lags and I can't lasthit there WTF are you on about, talking like Ryze is some dominant force in the lane? Are the euro players really that much worse than NA? Eh he's a good laner o_O What do you mean? I agree. Of course it depends who the other 3 people in the lane are but generally Ryze does well with mana regen + E and the threat of burst.
Yeh, i def agree with the fact that he has decent lane control. What i dont agree with is that he is some kind of monster laner who will 99% get kills in a dual lane. There are people muuuch scarier than ryze that i hate dealing with in dual lanes, like taric >: (
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Taric/Sion + Garen is the FotM rape the other team's face off lane. It's pretty fucking mean.
The point of this post is that when I think of duo laners, I think they need high HP just because the top level side lanes are all beefy fuckers with disables who hit like a ton of bricks. Ryze is a good burster, but IMO he's too squishy to actually maintain any zone control vs. a lane that can sit in the brush and threaten stun -> silence -> judgment chains.
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On August 11 2010 05:55 Mogwai wrote:
Taric/Sion + Garen is the FotM rape the other team's face off lane. It's pretty fucking mean.
I agree, especially Sion is absolutely retarded. That's why I was sooo mad in a game a few days ago where my Sion was like "NO ME LANE WITH JANNA DUAL MELEE BAD" and I had to lane with a tristana wtf?
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On August 11 2010 05:50 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 05:47 Shikyo wrote:On August 11 2010 05:44 red_ wrote:On August 11 2010 05:36 Shikyo wrote:On August 11 2010 05:32 red_ wrote:On August 11 2010 05:29 Shikyo wrote:On August 11 2010 05:26 barbsq wrote:On August 11 2010 05:22 Mogwai wrote:
rylai's is awful on Ryze IMO. if you're going tear, archangels is always eventually a good idea, but I doubt you should be getting it that early. Maybe grab RoA after sorc boots, then z-ring, then archangels? That makes sense to me for maximizing AP and Mana for nuking while keeping some survivability. SS seems like a bad call because you have no escape mechanics. If the other team wants you dead, you're probably gonna die, so keeping stacks seems like a nightmare. i always run ghost/flash with masteries so sometimes i feel ok about getting ss ^.^ also rylais is kinda cool just kus you basically get aoe slow, but yeah, doesnt really fit that well on him, esp since it lacks mana edit: @ shikyo, i rarely find a game where i can get 2 roas in a timely manner, so this seems kinda silly, unless you're expecting a longass game So you can't farm 6k in 20 minutes? Well I can. A 'fast' RoA is like, 12 minutes, your typical 'I'm having a solid game but didn't get fed' RoA is closer to 15. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that if we had a sort of TL inhouse, you'd never get close to 2 RoA's at 20 minutes. Maybe you'd get 1+ a catalyst, with no boots, starting with sapphire crystal instead of doran's ring(which means you'll probably get zoned by decent players, and not get your farm, unless you're Morgana maybe?) You get quite a bit of gold from the early kills Ryze should get and the second one doesn't need to be any faster than your Archangels or any other item would need to be. Ryze needs the hp and mana and so you should get them. They don't even need to build up to be good on him, it's just a bonus. And even on a dual lane I get amazing farm, and especially if you're owning them like you should with Ryze, the RoAs should be quite speedy. Yeah I wouldn't have good farm in a TL.net inhouse because US server lags and I can't lasthit there WTF are you on about, talking like Ryze is some dominant force in the lane? Are the euro players really that much worse than NA? Eh he's a good laner o_O What do you mean? I agree. Of course it depends who the other 3 people in the lane are but generally Ryze does well with mana regen + E and the threat of burst.
There's a difference between 'good' laner, and 'guaranteed kills+assists to get my 20 minute 2x RoA's.' Although he did backpedal on that pretty quickly to 'the second one doesn't need to be any faster than your AA or any other item would need to be.'
It's not that I have anything against Ryze, it's more the way Shikyo talks up every build with ridiculous farm numbers that just aren't feasible vs competent opposition(kind of like that time a few pages ago where he equated getting HG instead of SS to be worth 2 kills and 1 assist). He just has a habit of pulling numbers out of his ass to assert some sort of claim he is making, with no accountability because he plays on the European servers. In a sense he is everything that Wrawra's rant talked about.
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garen + any stun/slow = hell
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On August 11 2010 05:57 red_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 05:50 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On August 11 2010 05:47 Shikyo wrote:On August 11 2010 05:44 red_ wrote:On August 11 2010 05:36 Shikyo wrote:On August 11 2010 05:32 red_ wrote:On August 11 2010 05:29 Shikyo wrote:On August 11 2010 05:26 barbsq wrote:On August 11 2010 05:22 Mogwai wrote:
rylai's is awful on Ryze IMO. if you're going tear, archangels is always eventually a good idea, but I doubt you should be getting it that early. Maybe grab RoA after sorc boots, then z-ring, then archangels? That makes sense to me for maximizing AP and Mana for nuking while keeping some survivability. SS seems like a bad call because you have no escape mechanics. If the other team wants you dead, you're probably gonna die, so keeping stacks seems like a nightmare. i always run ghost/flash with masteries so sometimes i feel ok about getting ss ^.^ also rylais is kinda cool just kus you basically get aoe slow, but yeah, doesnt really fit that well on him, esp since it lacks mana edit: @ shikyo, i rarely find a game where i can get 2 roas in a timely manner, so this seems kinda silly, unless you're expecting a longass game So you can't farm 6k in 20 minutes? Well I can. A 'fast' RoA is like, 12 minutes, your typical 'I'm having a solid game but didn't get fed' RoA is closer to 15. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that if we had a sort of TL inhouse, you'd never get close to 2 RoA's at 20 minutes. Maybe you'd get 1+ a catalyst, with no boots, starting with sapphire crystal instead of doran's ring(which means you'll probably get zoned by decent players, and not get your farm, unless you're Morgana maybe?) You get quite a bit of gold from the early kills Ryze should get and the second one doesn't need to be any faster than your Archangels or any other item would need to be. Ryze needs the hp and mana and so you should get them. They don't even need to build up to be good on him, it's just a bonus. And even on a dual lane I get amazing farm, and especially if you're owning them like you should with Ryze, the RoAs should be quite speedy. Yeah I wouldn't have good farm in a TL.net inhouse because US server lags and I can't lasthit there WTF are you on about, talking like Ryze is some dominant force in the lane? Are the euro players really that much worse than NA? Eh he's a good laner o_O What do you mean? I agree. Of course it depends who the other 3 people in the lane are but generally Ryze does well with mana regen + E and the threat of burst. There's a difference between 'good' laner, and 'guaranteed kills+assists to get my 20 minute 2x RoA's.' Although he did backpedal on that pretty quickly to 'the second one doesn't need to be any faster than your AA or any other item would need to be.' It's not that I have anything against Ryze, it's more the way Shikyo talks up every build with ridiculous farm numbers that just aren't feasible vs competent opposition(kind of like that time a few pages ago where he equated getting HG instead of SS to be worth 2 kills and 1 assist). He just has a habit of pulling numbers out of his ass to assert some sort of claim he is making, with no accountability because he plays on the European servers. In a sense he is everything that Wrawra's rant talked about.
They're not guaranteed but you still should get them. -_-
And yeah sure is fun being on the EU servers, no one even bothers opening the client to look my stats up so I can just say I'm like 27-17 and people believe me.
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On August 11 2010 05:57 red_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 05:50 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On August 11 2010 05:47 Shikyo wrote:On August 11 2010 05:44 red_ wrote:On August 11 2010 05:36 Shikyo wrote:On August 11 2010 05:32 red_ wrote:On August 11 2010 05:29 Shikyo wrote:On August 11 2010 05:26 barbsq wrote:On August 11 2010 05:22 Mogwai wrote:
rylai's is awful on Ryze IMO. if you're going tear, archangels is always eventually a good idea, but I doubt you should be getting it that early. Maybe grab RoA after sorc boots, then z-ring, then archangels? That makes sense to me for maximizing AP and Mana for nuking while keeping some survivability. SS seems like a bad call because you have no escape mechanics. If the other team wants you dead, you're probably gonna die, so keeping stacks seems like a nightmare. i always run ghost/flash with masteries so sometimes i feel ok about getting ss ^.^ also rylais is kinda cool just kus you basically get aoe slow, but yeah, doesnt really fit that well on him, esp since it lacks mana edit: @ shikyo, i rarely find a game where i can get 2 roas in a timely manner, so this seems kinda silly, unless you're expecting a longass game So you can't farm 6k in 20 minutes? Well I can. A 'fast' RoA is like, 12 minutes, your typical 'I'm having a solid game but didn't get fed' RoA is closer to 15. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that if we had a sort of TL inhouse, you'd never get close to 2 RoA's at 20 minutes. Maybe you'd get 1+ a catalyst, with no boots, starting with sapphire crystal instead of doran's ring(which means you'll probably get zoned by decent players, and not get your farm, unless you're Morgana maybe?) You get quite a bit of gold from the early kills Ryze should get and the second one doesn't need to be any faster than your Archangels or any other item would need to be. Ryze needs the hp and mana and so you should get them. They don't even need to build up to be good on him, it's just a bonus. And even on a dual lane I get amazing farm, and especially if you're owning them like you should with Ryze, the RoAs should be quite speedy. Yeah I wouldn't have good farm in a TL.net inhouse because US server lags and I can't lasthit there WTF are you on about, talking like Ryze is some dominant force in the lane? Are the euro players really that much worse than NA? Eh he's a good laner o_O What do you mean? I agree. Of course it depends who the other 3 people in the lane are but generally Ryze does well with mana regen + E and the threat of burst. There's a difference between 'good' laner, and 'guaranteed kills+assists to get my 20 minute 2x RoA's.' Although he did backpedal on that pretty quickly to 'the second one doesn't need to be any faster than your AA or any other item would need to be.' It's not that I have anything against Ryze, it's more the way Shikyo talks up every build with ridiculous farm numbers that just aren't feasible vs competent opposition(kind of like that time a few pages ago where he equated getting HG instead of SS to be worth 2 kills and 1 assist). He just has a habit of pulling numbers out of his ass to assert some sort of claim he is making, with no accountability because he plays on the European servers. In a sense he is everything that Wrawra's rant talked about.
lol, wrawra's post made me scared to post in here for awhile, but i usually cover most of my info with a big fat disclaimer that im low/mid elo (or just that i suck in general), so i figured i would be ok
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I still love 1v2 garen because of how you can dive into 2 people when you're at like 40% health at level 5 and just DK them, lol
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+ Show Spoiler +On August 11 2010 05:22 Mogwai wrote:
rylai's is awful on Ryze IMO. if you're going tear, archangels is always eventually a good idea, but I doubt you should be getting it that early. Maybe grab RoA after sorc boots, then z-ring, then archangels? That makes sense to me for maximizing AP and Mana for nuking while keeping some survivability. SS seems like a bad call because you have no escape mechanics. If the other team wants you dead, you're probably gonna die, so keeping stacks seems like a nightmare.
I guess as a starting point my point would be:
mana crystal
tear
sorc shoes
RoA
z-ring
archangels.
+ Show Spoiler +On August 11 2010 05:25 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 05:18 barbsq wrote:
Archangels is very core on ryze, the boost in mana means a boost in his q, which is his only singletarget nuke, and a very strong one at that. Though im not nearly the best ryze player, i would recommend roa -> tear -> (note these two are largely interchangeable in terms of when to buy parts) ->mejais if you feel comfortable with it -> archangels -> ??? here it gets fuzzy, since you will want some defensive items (mybe zhonyas will cover that, mybe not) or maybe some mpen sorts of items, or mybe just stack archs and be done with it. RoA, RoA, Zhonya, Void, Frozen Heart for Ryze imo.
With Ryze I only have problems with a good Ashe, any Kog, and soraka + anything beefier than me (which is everything). Ashe and Kog's range really hits my low HP hard making any attempt at poking them impossible, but a mediocre ashe is easier to keep in check. And a soraka team goes without saying. Taric I can make run out of mana, so he's just not as infinite as soraka.
I'll definitely try both of those builds, Mogwai's and Shikyo's and report back.
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i think that garen is the best tower diver ever, fuck vlad, he dont got shit on dat garen
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On August 11 2010 06:01 Mogwai wrote:
I still love 1v2 garen because of how you can dive into 2 people when you're at like 40% health at level 5 and just DK them, lol
I've only 1v2d as Garen twice and I gotta say, I don't really like it. I get kills a lot better on a dual lane, 1v2 it feels like I don't really have enough control early on. I have to sit around until like lvl 4-5 before I can properly harrass whereas on a dual lane I could be looking at 1-3 kills by that time. After you get an ulti, you almost invariably get a kill though, and greatly outlevel them. I guess it makes it kind of okay...
EDIT: well that's my experience from only 2 games, so it's even less reliable than the other stuff I say.
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the thing about 1v2's tho, is that usually, if you just sit and outlevel/farm them for awhile, you basically win the lane. Its usually up to the opponent to actually DO something to gimp you, or else you more or less win. Imo, garen can accomplish that reasonably well, altho his lack of range is something thats kinda tough to overcome in some matchups
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well, what sucks is when your 1v2 turns out to be a 1v1 vs. Zilean or some gay shit like that. but if you're actually against 2 people, the level advantage kicks in really fast. I usually go courage at level 2 to mitigate harass on 1v2 lanes, but it depends on the lane. It's just that having an overleveled judgment is guaranteed rape.
EDIT: the post above explains it well. If you can't zone me out of XP range, I'm ok hitting level 5 with 0 cs just because at that point I'm going to knock both of you off of it with imba 450+ damage judgment.
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EPT
