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I don't really care? It's very easy for me to hit 10+ stacks on Soulstealer, so I can really honestly say nothing except "suck less." For a long time I didn't like snowball items either, but I always admitted it was because I was uncomfortable with the concept of "not dying." They are by far some of the most dominating items, even if they're risky. It took me 5 minutes to go from 0 stacks to 11 stacks on Kassadin on an otherwise close and slow game.
Edit:
I mean we're talking about people wondering how you carry low elo players. EzPz and I just Soulstealer'd our way into 1500+ running Kass/Annie with SS and both of us raced for 20 stacks. I've finally stopped hitting 20 stacks... in the late 1500 to 1600s stage, although I still comfortably sit on at least 10 stacks usually (I'd probably hit 20 more often if I didn't have a penchant for stupid risky deaths, because I pull a lot of scary stunts like tower diving Morg and Garen and baiting them off tower before teleporting across the wall with Cleanse). Also I'd point out I haven't hit 20 in a while because I've switched playing styles to a more korean farm style (opening Cata and farming instead of SS for gank) and because games end too fast for the late SS to stack to 20.
It's never an "well maybe you won't get stacks" for me, unless my team is completely falling apart (which there's nothing I can really do about if with or without SS).
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Maxed Mejai's Soulstealer vs Haunting Guise with 400 external AP vs the Ashe from the first example(If she didn't buy any mres this she will still have):
Damage of lvl 5 Disintegrate with Mejai's Soulstealer:
260 + (0.6*580) = 608
Damage to Ashe: 608 / 1.25 = 486.4
Damage of lvl 5 Disintegrate with Haunting Guise:
260 + (0.6*425) = 515
Damage to Ashe : 515 / 1.05 = 490.5
Wait, what?
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On August 10 2010 22:29 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2010 22:09 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Also can someone direct me to a good jungle udyr guide or just generally outline skillbuild/items for me? I believe lilballz is the best jungling Udyr in the world so I'll just relay his build to you: aspd marks and quints, mres/lvl seals and glyphs Masteries 1-8-21 with strenght of spirit and improved smite 1-3 HoG depending on how fast you can get them -> Merc, Sunfires and Randuins and mres if you need(with the runes, you might not even need any more from items other than the mercs and maybe GA). EDIT: Skillbuild is always situational, I personally do RWRE(gank here first, and repeatedly from hereon)RWEEEEWWWRRQQQ
Yes, he's actually the reason why I'm learning udyr now. He fucking stomped the shit out of our team like 10-1 or something.
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So yeah, being more effective than a freaking maxed Mejai's soulstealer while having 400 external AP equals "scaling into the lategame" in my eyes. Maybe it's not better in every situation, but maybe your Mejai's won't be full in every situation either.
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On August 11 2010 02:52 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2010 22:29 Shikyo wrote:On August 10 2010 22:09 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Also can someone direct me to a good jungle udyr guide or just generally outline skillbuild/items for me? I believe lilballz is the best jungling Udyr in the world so I'll just relay his build to you: aspd marks and quints, mres/lvl seals and glyphs Masteries 1-8-21 with strenght of spirit and improved smite 1-3 HoG depending on how fast you can get them -> Merc, Sunfires and Randuins and mres if you need(with the runes, you might not even need any more from items other than the mercs and maybe GA). EDIT: Skillbuild is always situational, I personally do RWRE(gank here first, and repeatedly from hereon)RWEEEEWWWRRQQQ Yes, he's actually the reason why I'm learning udyr now. He fucking stomped the shit out of our team like 10-1 or something.
Hahah, dominating ganker junglers are some of the most significant in the game but I've decided I'm not opportunistic enough to pull it off, I play way too conservative. 'Tis why I ran back to my main and now I just whore people to jungle for me. :D
On August 11 2010 02:57 Shikyo wrote:
So yeah, being more effective than a freaking maxed Mejai's soulstealer while having 400 external AP equals "scaling into the lategame" in my eyes. Maybe it's not better in every situation, but maybe your Mejai's won't be full in every situation either.
I have not played a game in months where I've had "400 external AP" (yes even at low elos, because we end games too fast) and a full stacked SS is more useful than 20 mr reduc when dealing with a 200 MR Singed because at least you get the 15% cooldown reduc. True story.
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On August 11 2010 02:57 Shikyo wrote:
So yeah, being more effective than a freaking maxed Mejai's soulstealer while having 400 external AP equals "scaling into the lategame" in my eyes. Maybe it's not better in every situation, but maybe your Mejai's won't be full in every situation either.
well, you can make guise all you like, I'll keep making mejai's.
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On August 11 2010 02:58 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 02:52 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On August 10 2010 22:29 Shikyo wrote:On August 10 2010 22:09 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Also can someone direct me to a good jungle udyr guide or just generally outline skillbuild/items for me? I believe lilballz is the best jungling Udyr in the world so I'll just relay his build to you: aspd marks and quints, mres/lvl seals and glyphs Masteries 1-8-21 with strenght of spirit and improved smite 1-3 HoG depending on how fast you can get them -> Merc, Sunfires and Randuins and mres if you need(with the runes, you might not even need any more from items other than the mercs and maybe GA). EDIT: Skillbuild is always situational, I personally do RWRE(gank here first, and repeatedly from hereon)RWEEEEWWWRRQQQ Yes, he's actually the reason why I'm learning udyr now. He fucking stomped the shit out of our team like 10-1 or something. Hahah, dominating ganker junglers are some of the most significant in the game but I've decided I'm not opportunistic enough to pull it off, I play way too conservative. 'Tis why I ran back to my main and now I just whore people to jungle for me. :D Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 02:57 Shikyo wrote:
So yeah, being more effective than a freaking maxed Mejai's soulstealer while having 400 external AP equals "scaling into the lategame" in my eyes. Maybe it's not better in every situation, but maybe your Mejai's won't be full in every situation either. I have not played a game in months where I've had "400 external AP" (yes even at low elos, because we end games too fast) and a full stacked SS is more useful than 20 mr reduc when dealing with a 200 MR Singed because at least you get the 15% cooldown reduc. True story.
You forgot that HG is an earlygame item? Wow I give up.
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8751 Posts
On August 11 2010 02:10 Shikyo wrote: Let's also assume Annie doesn't have the mpen mastery
This blew my mind...
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What's your point? You're comparing an "earlygame item" to a mid-game item (that also scales late-game because of its absurd cost vs AP ratio provided you keep rolling) and saying it does more damage against a hero that has no MR. With "400 external AP" because those are definitely early-game numbers.
Thus, I turn around and probe you about comparing damage and usefulness against a hero that has MR. And that's not even late-late-game, as Mog pointed out it's easy for him to hit 150 MR on Garen some 30 minutes into a game, which as far as I'm concerned is mid-late game.
Not to mention you failed to take into account Void Staff.
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On August 11 2010 03:11 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 02:10 Shikyo wrote: Let's also assume Annie doesn't have the mpen mastery This blew my mind...
I don't get archaic mastery on Annie =X
SoS is more important IMO.
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I don't get it on anyone these days >_>
Edit:
Hey guys, I have a newsflash.
When you have two fully stacked Bloodthirsters, getting Last Whisper gives you more DPS than a third Bloodthirster.
And when you enter late-game it's actually probably better to get an IE instead of another Bloodthirster. I'm not sure about mid-game though, it's hard to find a medium cost item after the BT greave BT LW opening that doesn't take that long to farm.
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On August 11 2010 03:11 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 02:10 Shikyo wrote: Let's also assume Annie doesn't have the mpen mastery This blew my mind...
You can redo the calculations with it if you want, I'm no maths pro
It'll probably actually give about 2-5 points of damage advantage to the non-guise
Then again I run 0-9-21 on all my casters so I'm not sure why it's so weird?
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my favorite thing with Garen in when I hit level 3 and I honestly start saying to myself, "wow, is he seriously staying there on the lane with full health? Does he not realize I can just kill him with Q -> ghost -> E -> Ignite?" FIRST BLOOD!
what a stupid broken character, why haven't I been playing him all along?
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Uhh , im inclined to agree with shikyo . An early NLR will benefit you and your team a lot more.. 2kills and an assist is a bit overboard, though. I much prefer SS + blue elixir regardless.
Haunting guise is excellent. I always grab it when my squishes get merc treads, or someone grabs an aegis from the opposing team.
But then you go and say fully stacked SS < haunting guise and i shake my head 
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Step 1: Find broken character
Step 2: Abuse
Step 3: Cry about nerf
Step 4: Mope for two weeks
Step 5: Go to "Step 1"
The Mogwai Lifecycle.
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On August 11 2010 03:11 Southlight wrote:
What's your point? You're comparing an "earlygame item" to a mid-game item (that also scales late-game because of its absurd cost vs AP ratio provided you keep rolling) and saying it does more damage against a hero that has no MR. With "400 external AP" because those are definitely early-game numbers.
Thus, I turn around and probe you about comparing damage and usefulness against a hero that has MR. And that's not even late-late-game, as Mog pointed out it's easy for him to hit 150 MR on Garen some 30 minutes into a game, which as far as I'm concerned is mid-late game.
Not to mention you failed to take into account Void Staff.
Yeah it's not perfect, I was just saying that it indeed does scale into the lategame. I'm too lazy for Void Staff's %-based mres reduction calculations, feel free to redo it if you want to know how it'd go.
Also, I don't think Garens will have too much mres, and I would never try to nuke any tanks in any case anyway.
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o jeez Guise really is good, I assumed it was a complete shit item.
I'm def gonna be getting it on most casters now.
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On August 11 2010 03:19 Mogwai wrote:
my favorite thing with Garen in when I hit level 3 and I honestly start saying to myself, "wow, is he seriously staying there on the lane with full health? Does he not realize I can just kill him with Q -> ghost -> E -> Ignite?" FIRST BLOOD!
what a stupid broken character, why haven't I been playing him all along?
iirc garen's a bit buggy, but yeah, he def one of the most overlooked heroes in general.
In regards to the HG discussion, it actually made me wonder about something i have wondered for awhile and that is HG vs void staff? Is there any sort of mathcrafting that tells us what situations one should be better than the other?
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On August 11 2010 03:12 Southlight wrote:
I don't get it on anyone these days >_>
Edit:
Hey guys, I have a newsflash.
When you have two fully stacked Bloodthirsters, getting Last Whisper gives you more DPS than a third Bloodthirster.
And when you enter late-game it's actually probably better to get an IE instead of another Bloodthirster. I'm not sure about mid-game though, it's hard to find a medium cost item after the BT greave BT LW opening that doesn't take that long to farm.
^ unless you're playing a stupid character that relies on non-autoattacking physical sources of damage.
but yea, IE is bonkers for lategame damage output. even with no other crit, it's crit components add 30% to your autoattacking DPS.
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EPT
