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On August 10 2010 00:20 Shikyo wrote:
Surprisingly I don't really mind 2v2 lanes since I haven't yet met a problematic lasthitter and tend to get all the farm anyway. If the lane combination is good it normally turns out quite fine.
This made me think of an issue I keep running into...
So I'm not too good at this game but I do have a head for the more "advanced" strategies... or like the "advanced basics" like not autoattacking creeps so you don't push a lane. The majority of people that I seem to play with, well, don't. So I'm always just kind of sitting around running back and forth while my lanemate autoattacks down one creep at a time.
The problem is, even though my lanemate is probably incorrect, I feel bad just swooping in and stealing the last hit on a minion he's "tagged." But if I don't then I can't really do anything because he'll just start autoattacking the next lowest health creep after his dies. So is stealing the last hits from an autoattacker bad etiquette?
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^ fuck no, steal every single last hit from him until he learns to goddamn last hit. mindless autoattackers deserve nothing.
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Idd, most autoattackers will lose 50% last hits to minions anyways.
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On August 10 2010 01:47 Mogwai wrote:
^ fuck no, steal every single last hit from him until he learns to goddamn last hit. mindless autoattackers deserve nothing.
There are some heroes like Xin and Taric that benefit from auto attacking, at least when you've forced your opponents to blue pill early and have low hp/mana respectively.
Other than that, yeah, last hit dammit.
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On August 10 2010 01:09 KazuoKiriyama wrote:Hey guys, for anyone interested in trying something new on LoL or just enjoy learning certain champions I have just released a pretty comprehensive guide to AP Twisted Fate which I would greatly appreciate any ratings for. It should cover everything you need to know to give it a go and its a very entertaining playstyle. Probably not best for new players but if you have played for awhile this can be very effective. It was written in the last week and so all information is up-to-date and will be maintained as such. http://leaguecraft.com/strategies/guide/7106-kazuokiriyama-s-competitive-guide-to-season-1-twisted-fate.xhtmlPlease rate if you get the chance as otherwise guides tend not to get read which is a shame considering the hours people put into them, Thanks.
Hi, I disagree with some parts of your item build. I believe that Guinsoo Rageblade is an extremely important early item, and that Nashor's Tooth also synergises with the Rageblade and your abilities perfectly, enabling you to nearly perma-stun or slow people along with more E procs. I think that those items along with Lich Bane should be the core. Maybe you could give it a try sometime. I also disagree with your skill build and think that you should get at least one point of E earlier, although I'd probably max it after Q with only one point in W early.
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if you've knocked the other team off the lane, it's typically beneficial to push into their tower so that your creeps die asap to deny XP/gold. But in normal laning circumstances, you should not be auto-attacking.
EDIT: for AP TF, I usually see mana crystal opening, sorc boots, GRB, Lichbane, Z-Ring. Nashor's is OK I guess, but I think Z-Ring is better for your burst and it gives you a slick survivability option. Nashor's will help your sustained damage, but AP TF is much more about burst than sustained damage.
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Not on AP TF, no. The only thing I'd point out is that arcerms (one of the best, if not the best, AP TF in the game) rushes Rylai and pokes people to death with snaring WC. It also gives him survivability, which is somewhat crucial for the poking you'll end up doing. I know you have Rylai already, but you might want to think about the order of getting items, particularly when it comes to Sheen (which isn't that critical on AP TF).
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On August 10 2010 01:47 Mogwai wrote:
^ fuck no, steal every single last hit from him until he learns to goddamn last hit. mindless autoattackers deserve nothing.
I had someone ragequit on me when I kept "stealing his creeps" after he was at 0 minion kills after 4 minutes. Sniff.
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^ more XP for you. I dunno at the level where that's ragequit material, I'd rather be overleveled in a 4v5 than being 5v5 with someone who sucks that hard.
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On August 10 2010 02:01 Mogwai wrote:
^ more XP for you. I dunno at the level where that's ragequit material, I'd rather be overleveled in a 4v5 than being 5v5 with someone who sucks that hard.
Yah that was a few months ago, at the levels I play at right now they normally don't even mention it. I'm not sure if that's a better thing though...
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On August 10 2010 01:58 Southlight wrote:
Not on AP TF, no. The only thing I'd point out is that arcerms (one of the best, if not the best, AP TF in the game) rushes Rylai and pokes people to death with snaring WC. It also gives him survivability, which is somewhat crucial for the poking you'll end up doing. I know you have Rylai already, but you might want to think about the order of getting items, particularly when it comes to Sheen (which isn't that critical on AP TF).
I think I saw a build like this once (was probably arcerms now that I think about it, lol) and it was really good (like, Rylai's, Mejai's, Z-Ring, Lichbane or something, right?). Most I see going AP though get GRB still though, :p.
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There's absolutely no reason to not get the Rageblade quickly on TF. Everything else you can debate, but it's the most cost-efficient item in the game after like, a maxed bloodthirster and RoA. It gives TF a great deal of AP, nice AD, and some aspd which again synergises with his E. It's just perfect for him.
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Except that when you're running AP, particularly 1v1, you're kiting them with PAC and WC, so it'd take you some 10+ seconds to actually charge GRB properly. That's also why Sheen isn't that high a priority, because it only affects PAC and even then only marginally (low base damage). This is even more the case against heroes with higher range than you, like Corki Trist Ashe or heroes that have a stronger combo than you like Annie and Anivia.
Not to mention you're essentially paying 2200 gold or so for charged AP, whereas if you really wanted cheap AP you could just by a NLR for better AP per cost.
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On August 10 2010 02:16 Southlight wrote:
Except that when you're running AP, particularly 1v1, you're kiting them with PAC and WC, so it'd take you some 10+ seconds to actually charge GRB properly. That's also why Sheen isn't that high a priority, because it only affects PAC and even then only marginally (low base damage). This is even more the case against heroes with higher range than you, like Corki Trist Ashe or heroes that have a stronger combo than you like Annie and Anivia.
Not to mention you're essentially paying 2200 gold or so for charged AP, whereas if you really wanted cheap AP you could just by a NLR for better AP per cost.
You're completely ignoring the damage, which is quite significant as well since TF is going to be attacking quite a bit as well. Rageblade actually is cost-effective even at 0 charges, the rest is just bonus. He gets 1 charge from pick a card, second from destiny, third from his attack, and then he can wild card and E and usually in a gank he gets 2 cards off, having max stacks with the second one.
Or you can just charge it up by attacking some minions, whatever you want.
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what utah's trying to point out is that that's not really how AP TF plays. If you want to play like that, just go fucking AD. AP TF is about poking and burst, not sustained damage. Rageblade, by nature is a sustained damage item. If you aren't attacking a lot, it's not doing a lot and AP TF isn't attacking a lot, he's just spamming the hell out of WCs to poke the opposition.
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Not. AP. TF.
If you're playing a hybrid TF by all means go GRB. But AP TF is something like the build Mog posted. All you do is WC and PAC them to death, kiting them with the Rylai snare. You attack just as much as AP Annie does. Only a handful of people do AP TF, and only one AFAIK does it well and consistently (although redtooth said he'd learned it from arcerms, too, but I haven't seen him do it).
For AP TF Lichbane is mostly a late-game mix-up, to add some AD to counterattack the inevitable MR stack if you're rolling. It also doesn't hurt to have extra movement speed to kite better, especially if the other team has a couple FoNs. This is why IMO the Sheen you can delay until you're actually gunning for LB, otherwise getting a fast Rylai/Zhon/Void is much higher priority (and SS if you opt for it, although SS is a bit iffy on TF IMO because he has no real escape and no one-shot kill threat).
Edit:
As far as I can tell the skill build for AP TF is something like PAC WC WC PAC WC Ult WC etc. I don't think you even bother getting SD because that's not the point. And AP TF farms like a beast because he just lines creep up, WC, and then red cards the melee creep for a clean creep wipe in half a second, quite nasty.
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Eyeroll, I thought you'd be ganking. I know I don't know much about what poking he can do, I have never gotten hit by wild card from a long range if there was no cc involved so I just don't think it's a good thing to base your gameplay around
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you get one point in SD just to take advantage of it's AP ratio. it's actually usually QWQEQR, R > Q > W > E.
EDIT: I should mention that that's for mid. on sidelanes having the level 1 stun is more important.
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On August 10 2010 02:29 Shikyo wrote:
Eyeroll, I thought you'd be ganking. I know I don't know much about what poking he can do, I have never gotten hit by wild card from a long range if there was no cc involved so I just don't think it's a good thing to base your gameplay around
It's a skillshot, and it moves just as fast as Morgana's Binding, except that it goes through creep and it has three angles, so in sieges it's obnoxious because it covers so much area. No one said it's easy, there's a reason why I said I've seen only one guy pull it off consistently at a high level (arcerms). And yes, you gank, a lot. WC on snare and PAC that packs a punch (especially if you land PAC -> WC) does a lot of damage. His AP ratios got adjusted so that it hits almost as hard as the old TF, he just doesn't have the awesome teleport every 30 seconds anymore.
And yea that makes sense (about level 1 SD).
Edit:
It also moves about as fast as Sivir's boomerang, IIRC.
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On August 10 2010 02:06 Shikyo wrote:
There's absolutely no reason to not get the Rageblade quickly on TF. Everything else you can debate, but it's the most cost-efficient item in the game after like, a maxed bloodthirster and RoA. It gives TF a great deal of AP, nice AD, and some aspd which again synergises with his E. It's just perfect for him.
By the way, would someone care to explain me why people get so many Bloodthirsters? Unless the tooltip is incorrect, all bonuses are lost upon death, so realistically it would not go past +10AD and +2.5%LL in a normal game (and I would assume that you have won the game at that point).
So for 3200 gold you get an optimistic 70AD and 17.5%LL.
For 3065 gold you get 75AD and up to 60APen via Black Cleaver. For the excess money (135 gold; +5-15AD and the APen are worth a lot too) you can keep a Vampiric Scepter or just get LL/any survivability from somewhere else. Black Cleaver also increases the damage your allies deal to the enemies you attack.
So unless the APen doesn't work with some key skills, or you absolutely need that exact amount of LL - why would you get Bloodthisters over Black Cleavers? Especially on a ranged char (Ezrael, Ashe, Tristana...).
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EPT
