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for mogwai here's a handful of reasons i think dota is leagues better than LoL (lol leagues).
1. in the notes for dota players on the lol website, they say they want to take out a lot of the "randomness" of dota - terrain effects is mostly what they're talking about. so in an effort to make the game less "random," they took out the constant 30% miss chance for attacking uphill and instead changed it to a EVERY-CHARACTER-HAS-A-CRIT-AND-DODGE%, and there's a ton of skills/items that have %chance to do more damage. like wtf were they thinking? i've critted with soraka. i've dodged killing blows a multitude of times. LoL is oodles more random than dota. random = bad.
2. no runes. if mid leaves, he's going to gank. any decently focused and organized team will never get ganked by mid. runes added an element of strategy to the game that LoL didn't inherit. "nevermore leaves mid lane at 4 minutes? he's only level 3, he's probably not going for a gank, just checking for the ru-OH GOD HE'S RIGHT HERE AND HE JUST GOT A DOUBLE KILL" is infinitely more interesting than "ezreal leaves mid lane at 6 minutes? back off a bit. gank saved." i like the epic monsters and i like both buffs in LoL, but there REALLY needs to be an invis and a health regen at the least.
3. no pets/duplicates. illusion rune was a powerful way to play mind games in dota, and pets were a great way to harass. LoL lacks both of these, due to awful UI. this also eliminates a ton of fun champ ideas. no meepo, no chen, no lycan, no phantom lancer, no naga siren, etc
4. no bottle! wtf, bottle was easily best item in dota, and bottling runes was ANOTHER level of depth that LoL can't duplicate in any way right now. h8 it.
5. no TP's. again, in the LoL for dota players notes, they said they wanted the game to be more aggressive instead of about turtling. so you give everyone a free escape mechanism (blue pill), and give no item to port back in? isn't that the essence of playing defensively? TPs and boots of travel were some of the most important items FOR aggression in dota. don't carry a TP at all times = bad player in dota. no option to carry TP's = bad game design in LoL?
6. brush. initially i thought brush was one of the greatest things about LoL, and used offensively, i believe it can be. and there are even some times when you run in the brush defensively and do a swell juke and everyone is like DOIM 2GUD. but on the other hand, there is SO much brush in the game, that chasing someone becomes impossible at points. you have to check every patch just in case they're in there blue-pilling. and if they aren't, you wasted time checking patches, they get away gg. another move that discourages offensive playing.
7. summoner spells and masteries. they're a bad addition to the game. balance them please. why aren't they item-based instead? flash is a bad spell because it's range is too low to be used offensively on 80% of champs, and so everyone uses it defensively. why not double the range and make it so you can only use it if you haven't been hurt in the last 10 seconds? now it's an initiation tool, not a get-out-of-gank free card, and it makes the game better instead of more defensive (isn't that what they're going for???). masteries are just dumb in general imo. that's more of a personal beef i have with them i suppose. same with rune pages. infinite spammable spells from level 1 due to perma mana regen is dumb.
8. zzzzzzzzzzboringchampszzzzzzzzz. where is my storm spirit? where is my mirana? where is my strygwyr (don't say warwick, don't even say warwick!)? where's my vengeful spirit? where is my lion? where is my dragon knight? where is my bane? why did they make xin zhao when he's just akali 2.0? why not just rework akali and make a *different* new champ? stuff like kogmaw is great, it does things that you couldn't do on the wc3 engine. now give me more champs like him please. less humanoid champs as well would be nice, though that's definitely a minor gripe
9. denying. i don't need to explain how this simple element separates the wheat from the chaff and teh dota from teh lol, do i? it should be obvious what it adds to the game.
10. better items: items that give a true disable please? guinsoo/euls/orchid? anything like those? blink dagger? armlet? starter items that give you well-rounded stats early for survival and you actually have to sell them instead of just investing in late-game items immediately?
11. not losing gold for deaths. no incentive to have roamers. none. in dota you can commit 1 or even 2 characters to just roaming the map trying to kill the carry/jungler. they lose 200+ gold for a death, it punishes them for pushing out too far. in LoL there is no punishment for playing dumb (i'm talking early game here. if you're on the other side of the map from your teammates late game in either game you get punished by getting ganked and losing 2 towers) and no incentive to have a character just headhunt the carry. a roamer can be underleveled and underfarmed in dota because their goal is to keep the carry underfarmed as well. trading a moderate hero's farm for a superlategameOP hero's farm is strategy. in LoL if you dedicate a roamer, he just loses a lot of exp, and doesn't really slow down the other team, IMO
that's just a couple things i wanted to say before i go to work. there's more. there are also things that LoL does better than dota. snowball items (only when used in the right hands plz), AP ratios, shen (:D), matchmaking, etc etc. and i'm still playing LoL. there are just definitely things it can do a lot better IMF
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On July 27 2010 04:04 Mogwai wrote:
*shrugs* I haven't seen a single NuNu in ranked games, but back in pre-season, I was playing NuNu a bit and I think his ult is really powerful in the right situations. brush ults are brutal, towerdive ults are stronger than most people seem willing to admit, forcing 2 spells, the 2nd of which must be hard CC at the right time in a fight is really strong too. snowball is generic as hell, but quite strong among generic single target nukes and bloodboil on Ez or Ashe or Kayle is just a savage beating. And I mean, there's really no denying that he's an absurdly strong laner... free spells, spammable strong nuke, self heal, double haste, it's all really good on lane.
Nunu is definitely underrated, from the early super-efficient snowball harassment to bush ults (extremely lame that you can't see it from outside) he definitely has his tricks, still I always feel that except for his bush ult he can easily be pushed and kited, he's slow and has no viable chasing tools as long as you avoid his super-slow snowball.
His laning ability is strong in 2v2 but not enough to kill stuff 1v2 unless you get tons of snowball hits. I still haven't played him since the cleave nerf tho, his synergy with ashe seems to have gotten stronger tho so I'm curious to see how he does.
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in terms of the denying (creeps, champions is a different story), imo, it actually adds quite a bit to the game to remove it. By removing denying, you essentially prevent a strategy of play in which you perpetually farm, since the last hitting will inevitably push the lane. Also, it means that the only effective way to 'win' against your lane opponent is through harassment, which increases player vs player interaction, so while i agree that it adds some 'depth' to the game, i really believe that its a rather superficial method of determining skill level that i honestly dont care one way or another whether or not its there.
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i don't try to compare lol and dota
i play lol because of the low mana costs, the action and how fast paced it is. dota is a better competitive game obviously, but lol is for fun.
the one thing that kinda irks me about dota is the fact that 1 guy can actually carry a team. in lol going 25-6 doesn't mean you can 1v5, in dota having void chronosphere your team while he's like 15-2 means you're all going to die.
supports in dota just get so shafted late game unless they're fed, games end with rhasta having like couple bracers boots and he'll be lucky to get an aghanims. although the one thing i really hate in lol is the fact that towers die in literally 5 seconds. you can have a yi push one lane while his team 4v5's, this never happens in dota. this doesn't effect you much in high elo but in dota the general pubs playstyle involve lots of action and ganking, whereas the mentality in lol is to just push a lane and not gank.
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@gtrsrs
I had to "quote" your post just so I could read it. If you get the time can you please separate that god awful wall of text?
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I'm seriously thinking about writing to riot about arranged groups in 5v5, leveling is impossible for me when I have to dodge 2 out of 3 games because a lv 30 is carrying his lv 11 friend as well as playing a character he's never put his hands on before.
Making an average between the summoners' levels isn't going to do any good for the players who are stuck with them: the lv 30 in most cases won't be any better than the good lv 23/24s, since everyone else solo-queued and the teamfighting/ganking is going to be arranged by pings/chat. The lv 11 on the other hand is going to sit and do nothing all game or just feed and go 0/11/1 before the 10 mins mark.
I'm in a massive losing streak because of that and dc's, and it's pissing me off quite a bit that whatever I do we can't win a fucking game because some guy who wants to play with his newbie friend didn't take the time to make a smurf account, either make a separate bracket for mixed lvl premades or I'm just going to start reporting everyone for griefing.
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On July 27 2010 04:44 gtrsrs wrote:
for mogwai here's a handful of reasons i think dota is leagues better than LoL (lol leagues).
err, it really just sounds like you want DotA. you have your heart set on it and go into criticizing everything about LoL simply because it's not like DotA... I'll address what I can, but some things like lack of a bottle are just simply design choices that I can't really see as inherently bad.
On July 27 2010 04:44 gtrsrs wrote:
1. in the notes for dota players on the lol website, they say they want to take out a lot of the "randomness" of dota - terrain effects is mostly what they're talking about. so in an effort to make the game less "random," they took out the constant 30% miss chance for attacking uphill and instead changed it to a EVERY-CHARACTER-HAS-A-CRIT-AND-DODGE%, and there's a ton of skills/items that have %chance to do more damage. like wtf were they thinking? i've critted with soraka. i've dodged killing blows a multitude of times. LoL is oodles more random than dota. random = bad.
1. no one has base crit or base dodge anymore, they are things that must be specced to be obtained now. I also sorta object to random = bad, but w/e, they're doing what they can while keeping things interesting.
On July 27 2010 04:44 gtrsrs wrote:
2. no runes. if mid leaves, he's going to gank. any decently focused and organized team will never get ganked by mid. runes added an element of strategy to the game that LoL didn't inherit. "nevermore leaves mid lane at 4 minutes? he's only level 3, he's probably not going for a gank, just checking for the ru-OH GOD HE'S RIGHT HERE AND HE JUST GOT A DOUBLE KILL" is infinitely more interesting than "ezreal leaves mid lane at 6 minutes? back off a bit. gank saved." i like the epic monsters and i like both buffs in LoL, but there REALLY needs to be an invis and a health regen at the least.
2. he could be sniping wraith camp or getting lizard or golem or taking dragon. runes are an interesting mechanic, but so is the jungle of LoL. Different =/= worse.
On July 27 2010 04:44 gtrsrs wrote:
3. no pets/duplicates. illusion rune was a powerful way to play mind games in dota, and pets were a great way to harass. LoL lacks both of these, due to awful UI. this also eliminates a ton of fun champ ideas. no meepo, no chen, no lycan, no phantom lancer, no naga siren, etc
3. byproduct of not being built on an RTS engine. I dunno, I really don't have any trouble with this issue. Shaco's annoying enough as it is, I don't wanna imagine what sorta of balance and confusion issues a meepo or siren or phantom lancer type character would raise in LoL.
On July 27 2010 04:44 gtrsrs wrote:
4. no bottle! wtf, bottle was easily best item in dota, and bottling runes was ANOTHER level of depth that LoL can't duplicate in any way right now. h8 it.
4. er, ok and DotA doesn't have merc treads... I dunno, I just don't see how lack of an item that was reliant on a game mechanic that got dropped is the sign of inferiority.
On July 27 2010 04:44 gtrsrs wrote:
5. no TP's. again, in the LoL for dota players notes, they said they wanted the game to be more aggressive instead of about turtling. so you give everyone a free escape mechanism (blue pill), and give no item to port back in? isn't that the essence of playing defensively? TPs and boots of travel were some of the most important items FOR aggression in dota. don't carry a TP at all times = bad player in dota. no option to carry TP's = bad game design in LoL?
5. no, this really isn't the essence of playing defensively... LoL is quite different in terms of the lethality of fights at low levels and this is really the essence of what they mean when they talk about making it less turtly and defensive. it's about the time that a LoL game takes and how mistakes can be punished in a meaningful way, not so much the fact that you can freely move to base, but not back out to the tower.
On July 27 2010 04:44 gtrsrs wrote:
6. brush. initially i thought brush was one of the greatest things about LoL, and used offensively, i believe it can be. and there are even some times when you run in the brush defensively and do a swell juke and everyone is like DOIM 2GUD. but on the other hand, there is SO much brush in the game, that chasing someone becomes impossible at points. you have to check every patch just in case they're in there blue-pilling. and if they aren't, you wasted time checking patches, they get away gg. another move that discourages offensive playing.
6. this criticism pretty much only applies to shaco IMO. in that case, I agree with you, but I think this is a problem with shaco, not with brush.
On July 27 2010 04:44 gtrsrs wrote:
7. summoner spells and masteries. they're a bad addition to the game. balance them please. why aren't they item-based instead? flash is a bad spell because it's range is too low to be used offensively on 80% of champs, and so everyone uses it defensively. why not double the range and make it so you can only use it if you haven't been hurt in the last 10 seconds? now it's an initiation tool, not a get-out-of-gank free card, and it makes the game better instead of more defensive (isn't that what they're going for???). masteries are just dumb in general imo. that's more of a personal beef i have with them i suppose. same with rune pages. infinite spammable spells from level 1 due to perma mana regen is dumb.
7. they're in place to allow for customization around your playstyle and I at least find the whole pregame setup pretty intriguing. the fact that they're not item based also makes them kick in way earlier and encourages more fast based play with more powerful early levels.
On July 27 2010 04:44 gtrsrs wrote:
8. zzzzzzzzzzboringchampszzzzzzzzz. where is my storm spirit? where is my mirana? where is my strygwyr (don't say warwick, don't even say warwick!)? where's my vengeful spirit? where is my lion? where is my dragon knight? where is my bane? why did they make xin zhao when he's just akali 2.0? why not just rework akali and make a *different* new champ? stuff like kogmaw is great, it does things that you couldn't do on the wc3 engine. now give me more champs like him please. less humanoid champs as well would be nice, though that's definitely a minor gripe
8. this is LoL, not HoN. it's not just trying to be DotA 2.0 and I don't know what else to tell you. I personally miss Kael, I dunno, doesn't seem like a valid criticism of LoL. If you don't find the character interesting, fine, but the way you're framing it just makes it sound like you just wanna play DotA. LoL of course draws from it's predecessor, but unlike HoN, it seems intent of separating itself from DotA too.
On July 27 2010 04:44 gtrsrs wrote:
9. denying. i don't need to explain how this simple element separates the wheat from the chaff and teh dota from teh lol, do i? it should be obvious what it adds to the game.
9. actually you do. I found denying to be a really contrived and frankly, fucking annoying, aspect of DotA. you can say it tested skill more or w/e by giving you more things to do, but it also imbalanced ranged vs. melee leading to some really abusive and unfun gameplay early in rough lanes. it also gave an even bigger play advantage to people with better internet connections or more experience with when last hitting was finally possible. I dunno, at first I missed denying, but after thinking about it, I think denying is a terrible mechanic and I'm really happy that LoL removed it.
On July 27 2010 04:44 gtrsrs wrote:
10. better items: items that give a true disable please? guinsoo/euls/orchid? anything like those? blink dagger? armlet? starter items that give you well-rounded stats early for survival and you actually have to sell them instead of just investing in late-game items immediately?
10. being disabled sucks. LoL has given enough disables to champions themselves that adding more to items would really break the gameplay. LoL already went through it's "mass disable and blow up the team" metagame phase and I don't think they wanna go back to it. as for starter items to round out your stats that you sell later, see doran's items.
On July 27 2010 04:44 gtrsrs wrote:
11. not losing gold for deaths. no incentive to have roamers. none. in dota you can commit 1 or even 2 characters to just roaming the map trying to kill the carry/jungler. they lose 200+ gold for a death, it punishes them for pushing out too far. in LoL there is no punishment for playing dumb (i'm talking early game here. if you're on the other side of the map from your teammates late game in either game you get punished by getting ganked and losing 2 towers) and no incentive to have a character just headhunt the carry. a roamer can be underleveled and underfarmed in dota because their goal is to keep the carry underfarmed as well. trading a moderate hero's farm for a superlategameOP hero's farm is strategy. in LoL if you dedicate a roamer, he just loses a lot of exp, and doesn't really slow down the other team, IMO
11. this is about a couple things: a) no buying when you're away from base would make losing half your gold a huge kick in the junk. b) the game really isn't meant to revolve around super carries. LoL doesn't want it's games to be decided by 4 out of 5 players on a team playing 2nd fiddle and focussing on 1 opponent and 1 ally who they want to get fed to the point where they're an unstoppable raping machine. You already set someone back a lot by killing them in LoL, setting them back further trivializes them and turns n00bs off. it makes the game even more snowbally and that's just not conducive to a well rounded and fun gaming experience for the majority of players. Roaming occurs in LoL in the form of jungling, which I think is way more interesting than devoting your game to fucking over faceless void in any way that you can.
On July 27 2010 04:44 gtrsrs wrote:
that's just a couple things i wanted to say before i go to work. there's more. there are also things that LoL does better than dota. snowball items (only when used in the right hands plz), AP ratios, shen (:D), matchmaking, etc etc. and i'm still playing LoL. there are just definitely things it can do a lot better IMF
I agree that there's room to change for the better, but I think most of it has to do with managing game modes. The core gameplay, IMO, is pretty great as is.
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On July 27 2010 05:07 shawster wrote:
i play lol because of the low mana costs, the action and how fast paced it is. dota is a better competitive game obviously, but lol is for fun.
can you explain why this is? I honestly don't see it and it pisses me off that everyone seems to default to buying into this sort of opinion.
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On July 27 2010 04:44 gtrsrs wrote:
for mogwai here's a handful of reasons i think dota is leagues better than LoL (lol leagues).
1. in the notes for dota players on the lol website, they say they want to take out a lot of the "randomness" of dota - terrain effects is mostly what they're talking about. so in an effort to make the game less "random," they took out the constant 30% miss chance for attacking uphill and instead changed it to a EVERY-CHARACTER-HAS-A-CRIT-AND-DODGE%, and there's a ton of skills/items that have %chance to do more damage. like wtf were they thinking? i've critted with soraka. i've dodged killing blows a multitude of times. LoL is oodles more random than dota. random = bad.
2. no runes. if mid leaves, he's going to gank. any decently focused and organized team will never get ganked by mid. runes added an element of strategy to the game that LoL didn't inherit. "nevermore leaves mid lane at 4 minutes? he's only level 3, he's probably not going for a gank, just checking for the ru-OH GOD HE'S RIGHT HERE AND HE JUST GOT A DOUBLE KILL" is infinitely more interesting than "ezreal leaves mid lane at 6 minutes? back off a bit. gank saved." i like the epic monsters and i like both buffs in LoL, but there REALLY needs to be an invis and a health regen at the least.
3. no pets/duplicates. illusion rune was a powerful way to play mind games in dota, and pets were a great way to harass. LoL lacks both of these, due to awful UI. this also eliminates a ton of fun champ ideas. no meepo, no chen, no lycan, no phantom lancer, no naga siren, etc
4. no bottle! wtf, bottle was easily best item in dota, and bottling runes was ANOTHER level of depth that LoL can't duplicate in any way right now. h8 it.
5. no TP's. again, in the LoL for dota players notes, they said they wanted the game to be more aggressive instead of about turtling. so you give everyone a free escape mechanism (blue pill), and give no item to port back in? isn't that the essence of playing defensively? TPs and boots of travel were some of the most important items FOR aggression in dota. don't carry a TP at all times = bad player in dota. no option to carry TP's = bad game design in LoL?
6. brush. initially i thought brush was one of the greatest things about LoL, and used offensively, i believe it can be. and there are even some times when you run in the brush defensively and do a swell juke and everyone is like DOIM 2GUD. but on the other hand, there is SO much brush in the game, that chasing someone becomes impossible at points. you have to check every patch just in case they're in there blue-pilling. and if they aren't, you wasted time checking patches, they get away gg. another move that discourages offensive playing.
7. summoner spells and masteries. they're a bad addition to the game. balance them please. why aren't they item-based instead? flash is a bad spell because it's range is too low to be used offensively on 80% of champs, and so everyone uses it defensively. why not double the range and make it so you can only use it if you haven't been hurt in the last 10 seconds? now it's an initiation tool, not a get-out-of-gank free card, and it makes the game better instead of more defensive (isn't that what they're going for???). masteries are just dumb in general imo. that's more of a personal beef i have with them i suppose. same with rune pages. infinite spammable spells from level 1 due to perma mana regen is dumb.
8. zzzzzzzzzzboringchampszzzzzzzzz. where is my storm spirit? where is my mirana? where is my strygwyr (don't say warwick, don't even say warwick!)? where's my vengeful spirit? where is my lion? where is my dragon knight? where is my bane? why did they make xin zhao when he's just akali 2.0? why not just rework akali and make a *different* new champ? stuff like kogmaw is great, it does things that you couldn't do on the wc3 engine. now give me more champs like him please. less humanoid champs as well would be nice, though that's definitely a minor gripe
9. denying. i don't need to explain how this simple element separates the wheat from the chaff and teh dota from teh lol, do i? it should be obvious what it adds to the game.
10. better items: items that give a true disable please? guinsoo/euls/orchid? anything like those? blink dagger? armlet? starter items that give you well-rounded stats early for survival and you actually have to sell them instead of just investing in late-game items immediately?
11. not losing gold for deaths. no incentive to have roamers. none. in dota you can commit 1 or even 2 characters to just roaming the map trying to kill the carry/jungler. they lose 200+ gold for a death, it punishes them for pushing out too far. in LoL there is no punishment for playing dumb (i'm talking early game here. if you're on the other side of the map from your teammates late game in either game you get punished by getting ganked and losing 2 towers) and no incentive to have a character just headhunt the carry. a roamer can be underleveled and underfarmed in dota because their goal is to keep the carry underfarmed as well. trading a moderate hero's farm for a superlategameOP hero's farm is strategy. in LoL if you dedicate a roamer, he just loses a lot of exp, and doesn't really slow down the other team, IMO
that's just a couple things i wanted to say before i go to work. there's more. there are also things that LoL does better than dota. snowball items (only when used in the right hands plz), AP ratios, shen (:D), matchmaking, etc etc. and i'm still playing LoL. there are just definitely things it can do a lot better IMF
The heroes in LoL are a lot cuter. Teemo is just sooooo adorable ^_^. When he plops down a mushroom, I am all like awwwwwwwwwwwwwww ^_^ <3. Only problem is that I sometimes can't bring myself to attack him because he's so adorable. My teammates always bitch at me after a failed gank. When I play teemo, my teammates yell at me as well because I would sit in base just plopping down mushrooms. I can't help it, he's so adorable!
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this guy's complaints are so stupid, go play dota if you want to play dota
almost all of your complaints are based in "it's different than dota". and some of them are ridiculous. you list off dota heros that the game doesn't have equivalents too. that's great, it's a different fucking game. it has heros that aren't in dota too.
1 and 11 are the only complaints I actually agree with. the point about denying is arguable, I don't actually think it effects the quality of the game at all but I could see how others might disagree. in particular denying is hard to balance, it gives ranged heros a massive advantage.
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I wish dota had a friendly interface or tutorial or something. As it is now, I don't think I could ever learn to play that game without getting my ass handed to me hundreds of times. I at least want to play against people as bad as me so i can experiment with the different characters and see what makes them unique. It's hard to do that when you're getting rammed up the ass by a giant golem named tiny that you have no clue how to stop.
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it's also frustrating when you pull invoker in AR and you have to know the command line to start learning what the hell invokes what :p
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@ gtrsrs, u say its for mogwai, can u keep it in pm's or something? having this thread derailed into DotA vs LoL is a really bad idea.
On another note, ive been playing a lot of xin and i always tend to have about as many deaths as kills, get focused to hell, and while his ult is a bit op, im kinda finding him a bit more underwhelming than other ppl seem to state. Am i missing something? Btw, im also curious as to what ppl think about laning xin vs jungling xin
edit: and lol at ray's response, tho tbh the cutesy look kinda turned me off at first (its one of the main reasons i dont like wc3, i simply dont like that animation style), ive stuck with it since i enjoy the core gameplay so much and ive kinda started liking it
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xin is too slow of a jungler IMO, prefer him on a lane.
I just go HoG, merc treads, bloodrazor, GA, Omen, tanking items of choice with him. seems to work for me. I definitely think the community is way over QQing about him though.
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On July 27 2010 05:56 barbsq wrote:
@ gtrsrs, u say its for mogwai, can u keep it in pm's or something? having this thread derailed into DotA vs LoL is a really bad idea.
i was curious about their opinions on it as well, although i also see the point in making sure the thread doesnt get derailed
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On July 27 2010 06:00 StuffedTurkey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 05:56 barbsq wrote:
@ gtrsrs, u say its for mogwai, can u keep it in pm's or something? having this thread derailed into DotA vs LoL is a really bad idea.
i was curious about their opinions on it as well, although i also see the point in making sure the thread doesnt get derailed
im a bit interested as well, but srsly, there is enough 'dota vs lol' on youtube, and if we start going in that direction, its just asking for the thread to be closed
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this thread moves at like 20 pages/day and typically bounces around 5-10 topics/day. I don't really see how it's possible to derail it :p.
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On July 27 2010 05:31 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 04:44 gtrsrs wrote:
for mogwai here's a handful of reasons i think dota is leagues better than LoL (lol leagues).
1. in the notes for dota players on the lol website, they say they want to take out a lot of the "randomness" of dota - terrain effects is mostly what they're talking about. so in an effort to make the game less "random," they took out the constant 30% miss chance for attacking uphill and instead changed it to a EVERY-CHARACTER-HAS-A-CRIT-AND-DODGE%, and there's a ton of skills/items that have %chance to do more damage. like wtf were they thinking? i've critted with soraka. i've dodged killing blows a multitude of times. LoL is oodles more random than dota. random = bad.
2. no runes. if mid leaves, he's going to gank. any decently focused and organized team will never get ganked by mid. runes added an element of strategy to the game that LoL didn't inherit. "nevermore leaves mid lane at 4 minutes? he's only level 3, he's probably not going for a gank, just checking for the ru-OH GOD HE'S RIGHT HERE AND HE JUST GOT A DOUBLE KILL" is infinitely more interesting than "ezreal leaves mid lane at 6 minutes? back off a bit. gank saved." i like the epic monsters and i like both buffs in LoL, but there REALLY needs to be an invis and a health regen at the least.
3. no pets/duplicates. illusion rune was a powerful way to play mind games in dota, and pets were a great way to harass. LoL lacks both of these, due to awful UI. this also eliminates a ton of fun champ ideas. no meepo, no chen, no lycan, no phantom lancer, no naga siren, etc
4. no bottle! wtf, bottle was easily best item in dota, and bottling runes was ANOTHER level of depth that LoL can't duplicate in any way right now. h8 it.
5. no TP's. again, in the LoL for dota players notes, they said they wanted the game to be more aggressive instead of about turtling. so you give everyone a free escape mechanism (blue pill), and give no item to port back in? isn't that the essence of playing defensively? TPs and boots of travel were some of the most important items FOR aggression in dota. don't carry a TP at all times = bad player in dota. no option to carry TP's = bad game design in LoL?
6. brush. initially i thought brush was one of the greatest things about LoL, and used offensively, i believe it can be. and there are even some times when you run in the brush defensively and do a swell juke and everyone is like DOIM 2GUD. but on the other hand, there is SO much brush in the game, that chasing someone becomes impossible at points. you have to check every patch just in case they're in there blue-pilling. and if they aren't, you wasted time checking patches, they get away gg. another move that discourages offensive playing.
7. summoner spells and masteries. they're a bad addition to the game. balance them please. why aren't they item-based instead? flash is a bad spell because it's range is too low to be used offensively on 80% of champs, and so everyone uses it defensively. why not double the range and make it so you can only use it if you haven't been hurt in the last 10 seconds? now it's an initiation tool, not a get-out-of-gank free card, and it makes the game better instead of more defensive (isn't that what they're going for???). masteries are just dumb in general imo. that's more of a personal beef i have with them i suppose. same with rune pages. infinite spammable spells from level 1 due to perma mana regen is dumb.
8. zzzzzzzzzzboringchampszzzzzzzzz. where is my storm spirit? where is my mirana? where is my strygwyr (don't say warwick, don't even say warwick!)? where's my vengeful spirit? where is my lion? where is my dragon knight? where is my bane? why did they make xin zhao when he's just akali 2.0? why not just rework akali and make a *different* new champ? stuff like kogmaw is great, it does things that you couldn't do on the wc3 engine. now give me more champs like him please. less humanoid champs as well would be nice, though that's definitely a minor gripe
9. denying. i don't need to explain how this simple element separates the wheat from the chaff and teh dota from teh lol, do i? it should be obvious what it adds to the game.
10. better items: items that give a true disable please? guinsoo/euls/orchid? anything like those? blink dagger? armlet? starter items that give you well-rounded stats early for survival and you actually have to sell them instead of just investing in late-game items immediately?
11. not losing gold for deaths. no incentive to have roamers. none. in dota you can commit 1 or even 2 characters to just roaming the map trying to kill the carry/jungler. they lose 200+ gold for a death, it punishes them for pushing out too far. in LoL there is no punishment for playing dumb (i'm talking early game here. if you're on the other side of the map from your teammates late game in either game you get punished by getting ganked and losing 2 towers) and no incentive to have a character just headhunt the carry. a roamer can be underleveled and underfarmed in dota because their goal is to keep the carry underfarmed as well. trading a moderate hero's farm for a superlategameOP hero's farm is strategy. in LoL if you dedicate a roamer, he just loses a lot of exp, and doesn't really slow down the other team, IMO
that's just a couple things i wanted to say before i go to work. there's more. there are also things that LoL does better than dota. snowball items (only when used in the right hands plz), AP ratios, shen (:D), matchmaking, etc etc. and i'm still playing LoL. there are just definitely things it can do a lot better IMF The heroes in LoL are a lot cuter. Teemo is just sooooo adorable ^_^. When he plops down a mushroom, I am all like awwwwwwwwwwwwwww ^_^ <3. Only problem is that I sometimes can't bring myself to attack him because he's so adorable. My teammates always bitch at me after a failed gank. When I play teemo, my teammates yell at me as well because I would sit in base just plopping down mushrooms. I can't help it, he's so adorable!
and teemo has the cutest freakin voice acting evar. look back a couple pages for epic teemo minefield killing. its so freakin sweet. i know the first time i played teemo i saw him waddle to lane i was so happy and warm inside.
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amumu's fucking adorable IMO. if I could have an amumu plushie, I'd be pretty stoked.
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is this game worth playing yet? or is the jiji premade just gonna gay you over and over again?
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EPT
