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On July 25 2010 11:36 Phrost wrote:Garen is a bad one trick pony. His whirlwind is op at the beginning of the game but during late game it does nearly no damage. His ult it situationally good against tanky teams but his ability to chase isn't good enough to garen-tee his ult all the time.
It's INSANE to put Garen at the bottom tier. His ult is good against ALL teams. I don't know why you would think its limited to tank teams.
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On July 25 2010 12:18 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2010 11:36 Phrost wrote:On July 25 2010 11:34 Shikyo wrote:
Garen tier D? Garen is a bad one trick pony. His whirlwind is op at the beginning of the game but during late game it does nearly no damage. His ult it situationally good against tanky teams but his ability to chase isn't good enough to garen-tee his ult all the time. It's INSANE to put Garen at the bottom tier. His ult is good against ALL teams. I don't know why you would think its limited to tank teams.
Hey, someone else knows something about something <3 High five
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On July 25 2010 12:09 Tooplark wrote:
I like Shikyo because he reminds me of Dr. Mundo <3
I really like your tier list for the most part, Phrost. I feel like Alistar should be tier B. Akali seems like tier D material on account of her being Xin Zhao without the tankiness or slow, but I don't know much about Akali. Ryze could be tier C, but again it's all subjective. Kog'maw might deserve to be higher, but I see him so rarely that it's hard to really know. Why exactly is Kennen tier D? He's a huge skill requirement for underwhelming results, but I think he has his own niche in terms of reliable repeatable mass stunning. Finally, Mundo should be tier MUNDO. Mundo.
Alistar is a tank that doesn't need tank items, that in itself makes him Tier A. Akali is very situational but she is really good at knocking down squishies fast and causing chaos with well placed smoke bombs. She's not as good as Shaco but he's always banned so Akali fills that burst slot well.
Kog'Maw COULD be better but I haven't seen or thought of an effective enough build where I felt threatening.
Kennen does what amumu does but a lot worse.
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I think Akali is about the same as Evelynn since she too becomes just as useful with an Oracle in play and has no cc.
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Tier S: Kayle, Xin Zaho, Ezreal, Taric.
Tier 1: Warwick, Sivir, Ashe, Morgana, Fiddlesticks, Zilean, Annie, Heimdinger, Katarina, Shaco, Janna.
Tier 2: Soraka, Gragas, Shen, Amumu, Nasus, Tristana, Nidalee, Olaf, Nunu, Master yi, Malphite, Jax.
Tier 3: Udyr, Mordekaiser, Singed, Rammus, Karthus, Pantheon, Blitzcrank, Kennen, Alistar, Twisted fate, Akali, Anivia, Twitch, Gangplank, Poppy, Corki, Sion, Garen, Kassadin, Tryndmare, Malzahar, Cho gath, Kogmaw.
Tier T: Veigar, Evelynn, Mundo, Ryze, Teemo.
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So, is chat down for everybody?
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On July 25 2010 12:18 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2010 11:36 Phrost wrote:On July 25 2010 11:34 Shikyo wrote:
Garen tier D? Garen is a bad one trick pony. His whirlwind is op at the beginning of the game but during late game it does nearly no damage. His ult it situationally good against tanky teams but his ability to chase isn't good enough to garen-tee his ult all the time. It's INSANE to put Garen at the bottom tier. His ult is good against ALL teams. I don't know why you would think its limited to tank teams.
Against a squishy team you're better off with a large nuke champion.
Hell veigars ult is probably better against low hp targets anyway.
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On July 25 2010 12:23 Shikyo wrote:
I think Akali is about the same as Evelynn since she too becomes just as useful with an Oracle in play and has no cc.
Even if there were no stealth detection in the game, evelynn would still be the worst character in the game.
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On July 25 2010 12:32 RoieTRS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2010 12:23 Shikyo wrote:
I think Akali is about the same as Evelynn since she too becomes just as useful with an Oracle in play and has no cc. Even if there were no stealth detection in the game, evelynn would still be the worst character in the game.
Strongly disagree.
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On July 25 2010 12:32 RoieTRS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2010 12:23 Shikyo wrote:
I think Akali is about the same as Evelynn since she too becomes just as useful with an Oracle in play and has no cc. Even if there were no stealth detection in the game, evelynn would still be the worst character in the game.
Evelynn isnt as bad as people make her out to be. I've actually had fairly successful games with sunfire cape stacking because people automatically assume she sucks and ignore her.
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Anyone have any tips for low-level Cho'Gath play? I'm just LANing with some friends and we're facing L10s~ highest and I'm not great and quite clueless on builds, but I really like having a lot of HP : D (I normally play Morgana/Karthus).
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get boots and 5 rods of ages and you're good to go
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On July 25 2010 12:35 Phrost wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2010 12:32 RoieTRS wrote:On July 25 2010 12:23 Shikyo wrote:
I think Akali is about the same as Evelynn since she too becomes just as useful with an Oracle in play and has no cc. Even if there were no stealth detection in the game, evelynn would still be the worst character in the game. Evelynn isnt as bad as people make her out to be. I've actually had fairly successful games with sunfire cape stacking because people automatically assume she sucks and ignore her.
She's good if she gets kills. The only good she does the team is maybe making them lose a little bit of gold and exp if they think she's ganking. No one should be dying to her unless it is in teamfights. No one should ever be dying unless it is in teamfights for that matter.
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On July 25 2010 12:42 RoieTRS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2010 12:35 Phrost wrote:On July 25 2010 12:32 RoieTRS wrote:On July 25 2010 12:23 Shikyo wrote:
I think Akali is about the same as Evelynn since she too becomes just as useful with an Oracle in play and has no cc. Even if there were no stealth detection in the game, evelynn would still be the worst character in the game. Evelynn isnt as bad as people make her out to be. I've actually had fairly successful games with sunfire cape stacking because people automatically assume she sucks and ignore her. She's good if she gets kills. The only good she does the team is maybe making them lose a little bit of gold and exp if they think she's ganking. No one should be dying to her unless it is in teamfights. No one should ever be dying unless it is in teamfights for that matter.
Oh boy you'd be surprised. Ever thought that with 2 full health champions you can take on 2 opposing champions with low health, and just as you're closing in on them, Eve arrives and you both get killed. That kind of things will always happen, and the Eve will be getting kills if the player is good. Guess you're just completely theorycrafting or never have played against a good Eve. Most good players don't play Eve so the players aren't too good in general, but a good one will definitely be formidable.
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On July 25 2010 12:45 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2010 12:42 RoieTRS wrote:On July 25 2010 12:35 Phrost wrote:On July 25 2010 12:32 RoieTRS wrote:On July 25 2010 12:23 Shikyo wrote:
I think Akali is about the same as Evelynn since she too becomes just as useful with an Oracle in play and has no cc. Even if there were no stealth detection in the game, evelynn would still be the worst character in the game. Evelynn isnt as bad as people make her out to be. I've actually had fairly successful games with sunfire cape stacking because people automatically assume she sucks and ignore her. She's good if she gets kills. The only good she does the team is maybe making them lose a little bit of gold and exp if they think she's ganking. No one should be dying to her unless it is in teamfights. No one should ever be dying unless it is in teamfights for that matter. Oh boy you'd be surprised. Ever thought that with 2 full health champions you can take on 2 opposing champions with low health, and just as you're closing in on them, Eve arrives and you both get killed. That kind of things will always happen, and the Eve will be getting kills if the player is good. Guess you're just completely theorycrafting or never have played against a good Eve. Most good players don't play Eve so the players aren't too good in general, but a good one will definitely be formidable.
If there is an evelynn on the enemy team, you don't do that.
You talk like you know what you are talking about but what I'm hearing is just a random pubber.
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On July 25 2010 12:29 Phrost wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2010 12:18 keV. wrote:On July 25 2010 11:36 Phrost wrote:On July 25 2010 11:34 Shikyo wrote:
Garen tier D? Garen is a bad one trick pony. His whirlwind is op at the beginning of the game but during late game it does nearly no damage. His ult it situationally good against tanky teams but his ability to chase isn't good enough to garen-tee his ult all the time. It's INSANE to put Garen at the bottom tier. His ult is good against ALL teams. I don't know why you would think its limited to tank teams. Against a squishy team you're better off with a large nuke champion. Hell veigars ult is probably better against low hp targets anyway.
Veigar has a long list of weaknesses. Garen doesn't.
I'm not going to deny that there are better heroes at killing low hp heroes, because there are plenty.
Garen's early and mid game is incredibly strong and his late game is mediocre. He still has:
-Excellent escape mechanism, Q W and E in any order.
-Silence, basically spammable when maxed. With any CDR it should be around 5.5-6 seconds. silence and taunt are by far the most useful form of control in the game.
-Excecute, that scales infinitely. Some of those weaker heroes you were mentioning that were easily killed in the mid game suddenly are not so easily killed. Late game you can ignore the tanks and use your R to eliminate the more threatening heroes. There is basically no way to stop that other than burning DPS on Garen, which is just what he and his team wants.
One trick pony is a huge understatement on Garen's potential.
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On July 25 2010 12:49 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2010 12:29 Phrost wrote:On July 25 2010 12:18 keV. wrote:On July 25 2010 11:36 Phrost wrote:On July 25 2010 11:34 Shikyo wrote:
Garen tier D? Garen is a bad one trick pony. His whirlwind is op at the beginning of the game but during late game it does nearly no damage. His ult it situationally good against tanky teams but his ability to chase isn't good enough to garen-tee his ult all the time. It's INSANE to put Garen at the bottom tier. His ult is good against ALL teams. I don't know why you would think its limited to tank teams. Against a squishy team you're better off with a large nuke champion. Hell veigars ult is probably better against low hp targets anyway. Veigar has a long list of weaknesses. Garen doesn't. I'm not going to deny that there are better heroes at killing low hp heroes, because there are plenty. Garen's early and mid game is incredibly strong and his late game is mediocre. He still has: -Excellent escape mechanism, Q W and E in any order. -Silence, basically spammable when maxed. With any CDR it should be around 5.5-6 seconds. silence and taunt are by far the most useful form of control in the game. -Excecute, that scales infinitely. Some of those weaker heroes you were mentioning that were easily killed in the mid game suddenly are not so easily killed. Late game you can ignore the tanks and use your R to eliminate the more threatening heroes. There is basically no way to stop that other than burning DPS on Garen, which is just what he and his team wants. One trick pony is a huge understatement on Garen's potential.
And with the popular mass sunfire build he can spin up to you without taking damage and being able to be slowed and can do all his stuff while the sunfires do their work. This lets him do something in the lategame as well, and as said his early/mid game is incredible.
On July 25 2010 12:47 RoieTRS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2010 12:45 Shikyo wrote:On July 25 2010 12:42 RoieTRS wrote:On July 25 2010 12:35 Phrost wrote:On July 25 2010 12:32 RoieTRS wrote:On July 25 2010 12:23 Shikyo wrote:
I think Akali is about the same as Evelynn since she too becomes just as useful with an Oracle in play and has no cc. Even if there were no stealth detection in the game, evelynn would still be the worst character in the game. Evelynn isnt as bad as people make her out to be. I've actually had fairly successful games with sunfire cape stacking because people automatically assume she sucks and ignore her. She's good if she gets kills. The only good she does the team is maybe making them lose a little bit of gold and exp if they think she's ganking. No one should be dying to her unless it is in teamfights. No one should ever be dying unless it is in teamfights for that matter. Oh boy you'd be surprised. Ever thought that with 2 full health champions you can take on 2 opposing champions with low health, and just as you're closing in on them, Eve arrives and you both get killed. That kind of things will always happen, and the Eve will be getting kills if the player is good. Guess you're just completely theorycrafting or never have played against a good Eve. Most good players don't play Eve so the players aren't too good in general, but a good one will definitely be formidable. If there is an evelynn on the enemy team, you don't do that. You talk like you know what you are talking about but what I'm hearing is just a random pubber.
Well your team is going to have quite a large advantage if you will never chase them and won't ever leave your towers.
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On July 25 2010 12:51 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2010 12:49 keV. wrote:On July 25 2010 12:29 Phrost wrote:On July 25 2010 12:18 keV. wrote:On July 25 2010 11:36 Phrost wrote:On July 25 2010 11:34 Shikyo wrote:
Garen tier D? Garen is a bad one trick pony. His whirlwind is op at the beginning of the game but during late game it does nearly no damage. His ult it situationally good against tanky teams but his ability to chase isn't good enough to garen-tee his ult all the time. It's INSANE to put Garen at the bottom tier. His ult is good against ALL teams. I don't know why you would think its limited to tank teams. Against a squishy team you're better off with a large nuke champion. Hell veigars ult is probably better against low hp targets anyway. Veigar has a long list of weaknesses. Garen doesn't. I'm not going to deny that there are better heroes at killing low hp heroes, because there are plenty. Garen's early and mid game is incredibly strong and his late game is mediocre. He still has: -Excellent escape mechanism, Q W and E in any order. -Silence, basically spammable when maxed. With any CDR it should be around 5.5-6 seconds. silence and taunt are by far the most useful form of control in the game. -Excecute, that scales infinitely. Some of those weaker heroes you were mentioning that were easily killed in the mid game suddenly are not so easily killed. Late game you can ignore the tanks and use your R to eliminate the more threatening heroes. There is basically no way to stop that other than burning DPS on Garen, which is just what he and his team wants. One trick pony is a huge understatement on Garen's potential. And with the popular mass sunfire build he can spin up to you without taking damage and being able to be slowed and can do all his stuff while the sunfires do their work. This lets him do something in the lategame as well, and as said his early/mid game is incredible. Show nested quote +On July 25 2010 12:47 RoieTRS wrote:On July 25 2010 12:45 Shikyo wrote:On July 25 2010 12:42 RoieTRS wrote:On July 25 2010 12:35 Phrost wrote:On July 25 2010 12:32 RoieTRS wrote:On July 25 2010 12:23 Shikyo wrote:
I think Akali is about the same as Evelynn since she too becomes just as useful with an Oracle in play and has no cc. Even if there were no stealth detection in the game, evelynn would still be the worst character in the game. Evelynn isnt as bad as people make her out to be. I've actually had fairly successful games with sunfire cape stacking because people automatically assume she sucks and ignore her. She's good if she gets kills. The only good she does the team is maybe making them lose a little bit of gold and exp if they think she's ganking. No one should be dying to her unless it is in teamfights. No one should ever be dying unless it is in teamfights for that matter. Oh boy you'd be surprised. Ever thought that with 2 full health champions you can take on 2 opposing champions with low health, and just as you're closing in on them, Eve arrives and you both get killed. That kind of things will always happen, and the Eve will be getting kills if the player is good. Guess you're just completely theorycrafting or never have played against a good Eve. Most good players don't play Eve so the players aren't too good in general, but a good one will definitely be formidable. If there is an evelynn on the enemy team, you don't do that. You talk like you know what you are talking about but what I'm hearing is just a random pubber. Well your team is going to have quite a large advantage if you will never chase them and won't ever leave your towers.
It doesn't matter its 5v4 if they pick evelynn.
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On July 25 2010 12:55 RoieTRS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2010 12:51 Shikyo wrote:On July 25 2010 12:49 keV. wrote:On July 25 2010 12:29 Phrost wrote:On July 25 2010 12:18 keV. wrote:On July 25 2010 11:36 Phrost wrote:On July 25 2010 11:34 Shikyo wrote:
Garen tier D? Garen is a bad one trick pony. His whirlwind is op at the beginning of the game but during late game it does nearly no damage. His ult it situationally good against tanky teams but his ability to chase isn't good enough to garen-tee his ult all the time. It's INSANE to put Garen at the bottom tier. His ult is good against ALL teams. I don't know why you would think its limited to tank teams. Against a squishy team you're better off with a large nuke champion. Hell veigars ult is probably better against low hp targets anyway. Veigar has a long list of weaknesses. Garen doesn't. I'm not going to deny that there are better heroes at killing low hp heroes, because there are plenty. Garen's early and mid game is incredibly strong and his late game is mediocre. He still has: -Excellent escape mechanism, Q W and E in any order. -Silence, basically spammable when maxed. With any CDR it should be around 5.5-6 seconds. silence and taunt are by far the most useful form of control in the game. -Excecute, that scales infinitely. Some of those weaker heroes you were mentioning that were easily killed in the mid game suddenly are not so easily killed. Late game you can ignore the tanks and use your R to eliminate the more threatening heroes. There is basically no way to stop that other than burning DPS on Garen, which is just what he and his team wants. One trick pony is a huge understatement on Garen's potential. And with the popular mass sunfire build he can spin up to you without taking damage and being able to be slowed and can do all his stuff while the sunfires do their work. This lets him do something in the lategame as well, and as said his early/mid game is incredible. On July 25 2010 12:47 RoieTRS wrote:On July 25 2010 12:45 Shikyo wrote:On July 25 2010 12:42 RoieTRS wrote:On July 25 2010 12:35 Phrost wrote:On July 25 2010 12:32 RoieTRS wrote:On July 25 2010 12:23 Shikyo wrote:
I think Akali is about the same as Evelynn since she too becomes just as useful with an Oracle in play and has no cc. Even if there were no stealth detection in the game, evelynn would still be the worst character in the game. Evelynn isnt as bad as people make her out to be. I've actually had fairly successful games with sunfire cape stacking because people automatically assume she sucks and ignore her. She's good if she gets kills. The only good she does the team is maybe making them lose a little bit of gold and exp if they think she's ganking. No one should be dying to her unless it is in teamfights. No one should ever be dying unless it is in teamfights for that matter. Oh boy you'd be surprised. Ever thought that with 2 full health champions you can take on 2 opposing champions with low health, and just as you're closing in on them, Eve arrives and you both get killed. That kind of things will always happen, and the Eve will be getting kills if the player is good. Guess you're just completely theorycrafting or never have played against a good Eve. Most good players don't play Eve so the players aren't too good in general, but a good one will definitely be formidable. If there is an evelynn on the enemy team, you don't do that. You talk like you know what you are talking about but what I'm hearing is just a random pubber. Well your team is going to have quite a large advantage if you will never chase them and won't ever leave your towers. It doesn't matter its 5v4 if they pick evelynn.
Yep huge understimation :/
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Toppest tier
Soraka
Janna
Ezreal
Taric
Ashe
AP Sion
A tier
Heimer
Katarina
Shaco
Shen
Ashe
Xin Zhao, The Senschal of Seneschals
Kayle
Kennen
Mordekaiser
Nasus
Pantheon
Rammus
B Tier
Tryndamere
Ashe
Teemo
Evelynn
Nunu
Singed
Olaf
Poppy
Sion
Tristana
Twisted Fate
Udyr
Akali
C Tier
Garen
Fiddlesticks
Gangplank
Ashe
Kassadin
Kog'Maw
Amumu
Corki
Anivia
Dr. Mundo
Karthus
Jax
Blitzcrank
Alistar
Warwick
Zilean
Bottom Tier
Annie
Zilean
Ashe
Twitch
Teemo
Sivir
Ryze
Malphite
Malzahar
Master Yi
Morgana
Nidalee
Veigar
Soraka
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EPT
