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United States37500 Posts
My stance on defensive items:
If you need plain MR, go Banshee and/or GA. Up to you if you want a consistent spell block or a revive. Both have their merits.
Abyssal and FoN are both good but are very situational.
FoN has nice MR but the selling point is the +MS. Which is why it's ideal on a champion like Singed. In every other aspect, a Banshee is better but the +MR and additional HP regen is great on Singed who is made for gas kiting.
Abyssal on the other hand, I would never build on a Caster. It has good MR but it has a magic reduction aura. This screams tank. Your caster is supposed to build a Void Staff if he wants magic pen. Built an Abyssal if you have a caster heavy team and the other team has stacked a lot of MR. Your casters go Void Staff and Guise, have one tank build the Abyssal.
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United States37500 Posts
On July 23 2010 19:11 Southlight wrote:
By the way I was remarking to Neo a couple nights about how the true carries in this game are all tanks. At the end of the game, a fully farmed Garen is far more disruptive than Ezreal, and certainly the Garen is more likely to kill the Ezreal 1v1, except for Ezreal jumping over a wall. It's just that you don't see this happen often because Ezreal farms significantly faster and forces a game end before Garen can farm up equally as well. But yeah, by the end if one team has 3 really farmed tanks it's really hard to beat them because those 3 tanks just outlast your whole team. Amumu is one such tank that farms incredibly quickly and comes with good innate damage output. That's why I was talking to Brees about how I was supremely confident in Amumu being able to "win it" at the end of a game, meanwhile he was likewise supremely confident in his Warwick being able to "win it" at the end of a game via tanking, etc.
Eh, I wouldn't say "true carry" but a fully sunfire stacked Garen is going to outlast everyone else in teams fights without a doubt, even the carries on both teams. Your "true carry" are still most definitely needed. They deal the greatest amount of burst but they're prone to dying. Someone like Garen will make sure he cleans up for your team if he plays smart.
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Swiftness was just a suggestion to demonstrate that MS, while valuable still has opportunity costs.
MR is a tool to improve your durability against Magic damage. Even though Banshees gives less actual MR it does also give HP AND the block. Still it´s a specialised item, true and really won´t always work. Overall however it´s a pain to get Magicresistance since it´s such a expensive stat. For raw, somewhat cost effective MR however you´d stack Negatron Cloaks. If you only need MR and the other stats are merely nice just get a Negatron and delay upgrading it.
The advantage of Spirit Visage is that it improves actually significant Healeffects: Abilities from other Champions. More importantly it´s cheap so its available when HP-Regen actually matters: in the Laning phase and it also has Magic resistance (so you don´t have to get bigger items for MR) .
You really shouldn´t try to counter poking by ouregenerating it. Poking will either wear you down or force you to build superdefensive, that´s why it´s such a strong strategy. FoN is superexpensive because it´s key component is HP-Regeneration which losses Value drastically after Laning.
Not wanting to decide within 5 seconds to initiate or not is a foreign concept for me honestly, as Tank you generally have LESS time for a good initiation.It IS a hard desicion which is why a lot people can´t play Tanks. I admit that I don´t get it right every time but I also don´t think dragging it out would help. Remember that the Time will also allow the other Team to prepare themselves and poke you. It´s better to eat one Heimerrocket and crush him than to build so durable that you can eat two heimerrockets and being unable to crush him.
My concern is simply, are you getting FoN and Abyssal because they grant the most MR on a single slot or because they provide actually cost effective benefits?
Look at it like this, FoN is 2640 Gold for 76 MR, two Negatron cloaks are 1480 Gold for 96 MR.
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Both, for FoN. The regen is fantastic for anti-poking, and because it's the most effective single-slot MR item. Bear in mind by the time I turn toward getting MR I'm usually already sitting on one or two HoGs, one or two Sunfires, and Treads, which means not only am I usually stacked full on items, I may even have to sell an HoG for space for an MR item. It's just an overall "nice item."
Re: Neo
In Garen's case that's true, but when you look at DPS hybrids like Udyr/Xin/Nasus and tanks that output damage like Amumu, they're probably the strongest pure end-game carries in the game. It's just that they rarely get to that point.
Like, the burst is nice, but if you're Ezreal on a balanced team, and the game has gone 50 minutes, and the other team has super farmed Xin/Udyr/Nasus you're probably feeling really dejected, because all the CC in the world will still make it difficult to shake them off, and if even one survives they're capable of ploughing through your whole base solo before the minute rez. And almost everyone else on your team is incapable of killing them. That's all.
Ezreal and other such ranged DPS carries (with the exception of Corki and maybe Trist and maybe Kayle, all of whom I feel have a very good combination of damage output and survival) are really useful because they tend to dominate from <10 minutes onwards, and for a long time, so they'll usually end the game before tanks can actually get farmed. Is my stance on it.
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So, I'm noticing that a good Janna can really fuck up your team. Because I have champion ADD. I think I will start to play her.
Any recommendations? I looked for some reputable guides but only found retarded ones from random forum-goers.
Off the top of my I'm thinking:
0/9/21
Clarity/Cleanse OR Clair
Doran's
~Doran's (Possible double doran's)
Merc/Tabi
Cata->Banshees/RoA (depending)
Frozen Heart
~Aegis if its appropriate
Then I don't know, Levi and Mejaj maybe?
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On July 23 2010 10:39 Southlight wrote:
DBC X/21/X cloth 5x pots you can golem at level 1, get pball and DBC and you can clear wolf wraith golem and smite liz with DBC2 without even going back to heal, then you get like 15 seconds before wolf respawns, lol, it's pretty ridiculous.
Ok I tested it in a practice game and it works. But when I got blue buff i didnt level up to 2. Is this normal? I always thought you'd get lvl 2 from killing golem
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On July 23 2010 20:19 Pakje wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 10:39 Southlight wrote:
DBC X/21/X cloth 5x pots you can golem at level 1, get pball and DBC and you can clear wolf wraith golem and smite liz with DBC2 without even going back to heal, then you get like 15 seconds before wolf respawns, lol, it's pretty ridiculous. Ok I tested it in a practice game and it works. But when I got blue buff i didnt level up to 2. Is this normal? I always thought you'd get lvl 2 from killing golem
Masteries can make a difference iirc
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United States37500 Posts
You need the +5% exp mastery in the Utility tree or Zilean buff.
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On July 23 2010 20:19 Pakje wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 10:39 Southlight wrote:
DBC X/21/X cloth 5x pots you can golem at level 1, get pball and DBC and you can clear wolf wraith golem and smite liz with DBC2 without even going back to heal, then you get like 15 seconds before wolf respawns, lol, it's pretty ridiculous. Ok I tested it in a practice game and it works. But when I got blue buff i didnt level up to 2. Is this normal? I always thought you'd get lvl 2 from killing golem
9 points in utility(minimum) is as standard for jungling as 9 in offense is for casters, people just assume you'll have the 5% xp when they lay out a jungling pattern.
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Ok so I just got Shaco planning to grind normal games to get to lvl 30 quickly so I can play ranked again. I've been trying to jungle with him, but due to my inexperience (I've never jungled anyone before) it hasn't been going as smoothly as I had expected. Anyone got a good build or some general pointers?
Right now I'm opening fort elixir, get golem and some other creeps, maybe attempt gank around lvl 3 if an opportunity arises, get razor asap, turn it into madred's bloodrazor, and depending on the enemy team and whether I'm being focused a lot I'll go for either stark's, banshee's or GA. Been running smite and ignite but after being cc'ed a lot (maybe i'm not using my ulti at the right timing?) I was considering getting cleanse.
Problems I've been experiencing is that sometimes my jungling is a bit slow, and most people in random games get owned when they try to 1v2 a lane so I have to go and help them out way too often.
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![[image loading]](http://i31.tinypic.com/1zygdh5.jpg)
LOL (Although Heimer one was funnier  But lol at Xin's beard haha  )
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On July 23 2010 19:36 Unentschieden wrote:
My concern is simply, are you getting FoN and Abyssal because they grant the most MR on a single slot or because they provide actually cost effective benefits?
Look at it like this, FoN is 2640 Gold for 76 MR, two Negatron cloaks are 1480 Gold for 96 MR.
I think this is where we're disagreeing. I'm picturing a game situation where you'd get FoN first, a second Negatron, then finish your build before going "what can I turn this into?" Usually it becomes a scepter for a final build of merc treads, 2 sunfires, GA, FoN, and an Abyssal, but if I didn't already have FoN or if the unique passive stacked I'd DEFINITELY get a FoN.
I mean, when I buy a negatron cloak I'm not thinking "is this cost-effective" I'm thinking "how much longer will this let me survive". When I upgrade it I'm thinking "what is the most powerful use of my last slot?"
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If you are looking for a MR option for your last slot because everything else is full already FoN is a good coice because it´s the most MR in a single slot. The issue is that it´s NOT the best MR for your Gold. That is why I´d never get FoN FIRST. It´s great if you get it LAST.
In most cases the most EFFICIENT MR item is Banshees but if you can´t scale up (buy more MR) due to lack of space FoN is the most EFFECTIVE.
A good itembuild is earlygame efficient and lategame effective. Empty Inventoryslots are basically wasted potentinal, which doesn´t mean buy 6 Dorans but to avoid singleslothighvalue but bad goldvalue items until Itemspace becomes an Issue. The FoN upgrade itself is worth 1000 Gold, the Spirit Visage item Total costs 1250.
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On July 23 2010 21:19 ManBearPig wrote:
Ok so I just got Shaco planning to grind normal games to get to lvl 30 quickly so I can play ranked again. I've been trying to jungle with him, but due to my inexperience (I've never jungled anyone before) it hasn't been going as smoothly as I had expected. Anyone got a good build or some general pointers?
Right now I'm opening fort elixir, get golem and some other creeps, maybe attempt gank around lvl 3 if an opportunity arises, get razor asap, turn it into madred's bloodrazor, and depending on the enemy team and whether I'm being focused a lot I'll go for either stark's, banshee's or GA. Been running smite and ignite but after being cc'ed a lot (maybe i'm not using my ulti at the right timing?) I was considering getting cleanse.
Problems I've been experiencing is that sometimes my jungling is a bit slow, and most people in random games get owned when they try to 1v2 a lane so I have to go and help them out way too often.
Wrote this:
On July 23 2010 10:35 Shikyo wrote:And now an almost entirely different topic, my jungling Shaco route: Golem with boxes at 1, then wolves, place jack in front of lizard, kill blue wraith using smite then rest, place jack in front of lizard, kill small golems, place jack in front of lizard. Then lure lizard to the 3 boxes and smite it for the kill. ![[image loading]](http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/9204/shacojungles.jpg) You'll lose less hp if you take some time to place an extra box before doing the golems. It'll be almost as fast as well. Thoughts? E: img
It's lvl 4 doublebuff at 4:30, even faster with elixir. This is the point where you go help the doublelane and normally get a doublekill.
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![[image loading]](http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz259/STS17/37418_10150199004785103_727050102_13361798_2056191_n.jpg)
Tanking Shen at it's finest. Yes that is an hour long game with no deaths (I'm kennen my brother is shen - Team ninja FTW)
Edit: oh and the chat in this one is hilarious ^^
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51715 Posts
woo played a game where i had 20x levi, 20x soto, 15x mejai
needless to say i was amused
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EPT
