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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
On June 30 2010 19:56 Juicyfruit wrote: Morgana is my new pubstomping champ after kennen. It's amazing how people underestimate her ult and think it's a good idea to 1v1 her. It's amazing how many Morgana's just sit there and let me hit on them as Jax. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On June 30 2010 23:21 Southlight wrote: Incidentally, Ashe with Fort will just autoattack you from the get-go and zone you out of exp range. I still cannot comprehend why people would run Ashe in a solo lane without Fort. Then I just counter with fort pot Kennen. My autoattacks are still stronger (double damage every 5 hits) and I can stun  | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
re Warmogs: it just sucks, don't bother. Especially on Rammus cause his farming speed is sorta meh and he has a lot to gain from armor. honestly, the last characters who I would sometimes get warmogs on were Pantheon and Sivir and it was just because I could farm creep so quickly with them. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
On June 30 2010 23:23 Juicyfruit wrote: Then I just counter with fort pot Kennen. My autoattacks are still stronger (double damage every 5 hits) and I can stun Unless you start out with Fort it'd be too late. And if you do start out with Fort I'll be content harassing you with Volley, and/or forcing you to use Fort ASAP (in a tradeoff) because Kennen buying Fort is already a triumph :p ^-- as in, level 1 I'm going straight for the jugular, and your double-damage autoattack doesn't faze me because you're not killing me with it. | ||
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Scorcher2k
United States802 Posts
On June 30 2010 23:12 Juicyfruit wrote: Why am I not last hitting again? The passive proc occurs quite often. It's not a big deal if I last hit with it. I never let go of a last-hit in exchange for harassing. However, if Ashe's volley is ever on cooldown, she's very much screwed because I will just energy ball into my autoattack range and spam a couple of marks on her (people don't seem to understand how fast that thing is) She CANNOT get away from me when I want to autoattack. By level 5, those marks will never go away unless Ashe gets out of exp range. The passive proc occurs based on your auto attacks. Are you buying an item early on to increase your attack speed because otherwise it is going to be easy for Ashe to move in and harrass when she sees that you just used your W proc. If you choose to ball and active W without having your auto attack W proc then Ashe is going to punish you heavily for it even if you do hit her with the ball. I'll trust the effectiveness of it if I see a video of it but I truly can't believe that not putting a single point into shuriken is somehow a good thing. Also, it isn't hard to just walk out of range as Ashe for a few seconds and let the charge drop off. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
If the Kennen doesn't open with enough heal potions (usually the case) I'll literally attrition them out of lane with Fort 5x pots. If they DO open with something like Fort 5x pots as well then that's, as I mentioned, already a win for me because Kennen is like Kat - you need your items really fast, and delaying by 475 gold is like a woooh victoryyyyy. Edit: Literally, literally literally, the only thing I fear from Kennen pre-level 6 is a Shuriken W triple-hit combo that will always lead to 2 extra hits while I'm stunned. Unless you can land the quick 3rd proc via Shuriken he doesn't do enough damage to outlast an Ashe unless he dittos the starting item build order. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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nataziel
Australia1455 Posts
But yeah, AP cho is amazing fun. Edit: is chogaths ult still bugged? I tried to ult a few times on game and chogath just walked up to the person and did nothing, it was weird. Also happened to me when I tried to nom dragon. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
On June 30 2010 23:38 Juicyfruit wrote: Then by all accounts, getting shuriken is just going to make things MUCH WORSE for kennen. He has to get a clearshot to land shuriken. That = eating a red-potted volley. I'm you're aiming to outlast me with health pots, then I'm NOT going to want to eat that volley. You don't have a choice if you don't open a ditto build. I will zone you. At that point, given the open space between me (standing past your creep) and you, the only thing you can do is abuse Shuriken and make me respect your combo. Either that, or you need to get a jungler or something to gank me. Even if I know you have Shuriken I'm personally so aggressive I'll hang in there anyways daring you to land a Shuriken strike on me, and only after one or two of these exchanges might I even think about playing less aggressively - I'll hang on and keep trying to dodge your combo until I decide I can no longer maintain my victory of attrition. Edit: Like, I understand what you're saying, but you're underestimating an Ashe who knows what they're doing and isn't going to wuss out. At level 1 you're being zoned, and you NEED a way to fight me back. If I know I have the health pots to hold on, you're literally being pushed back into your tower by an Ashe + potions. If you opened with like your autoattack proc skill, you're going to get zoned out before you even charge it more than once. No threat of stun, and the double-damage does not scare me at all. By nature of not having Shuriken there is no need for me to respect you, and you're already knocked all the way back. Now if you keep going with your skill build and go W E I still have no need to respect you. What're you going to do now, turn on E and run at me? I'll just right-click you. I mean, what do I have to be afraid of? Being hit by you? By the time you run into me with E (if you so desire to try, but I know you won't) you'll be snared and eat like 10 shots going in and out, so obviously that's not gonna be it. Attempting to land one proc'd hit on me will lead to at least 3 shots back (autoattack in, volley, autoattack out), and if you further attempt to land a full combo (attack -> E W) then you'll eat like 10+ shots on the way out attempting to actually land the second hit on me with E, and that's assuming you can catch up through kiting and snaring. The only way you can actually feasibly land three stun counters on me is to Shuriken. PS: The above is all without even using Fort pot. By not forcing me to respect your range from level 1, I don't feel compelled to even Fort it. The onus is now squarely on you, the Kennen player, to force me to burn it. | ||
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ADAM.1
United States36 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
EDIT: Corki requires a surprising amount of finesse, but if played correctly, I think he's really strong. | ||
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eaT_Mi_Lquid
Germany509 Posts
Go Shuriken as your 1st and main skill. then level up W , on 4 lvl get E, etc. Shuriken is much more useful than "E" and does more dmg. / dmg over time because of its CD. and Buy Doran's Blade General tactics for playing ranged heroes like Ashe/Teemo/TF. lvl until lvl 2. than hit minions unitl the counter is 4 then apply mark on the champ. + press "W" . This is one of the best harrass combos early game. If the enemy Champ is running from you and accidently out of his minion line, try to hit him with a shuriken for stun. Or else when he is stunned by ur "W" Combo, hit him with another easy Shuriken. At lvl 4 you have another skill to harrass, which makes Kennen more deadlier, again load up your "W" counter to 4 then Energyball to him and hit him with your combo + Shuriken, Its very effective on Ashe/Teemo/TF characters, on other characters with more HP you must wear them down little by little, until you should rush in for the kill. At lvl 6, its quite easy , no need to comment. As Summoner Skills, Ignite is a good choice for finishing, since Kennen solo mid is a good harrasser. First Item should be Dorans Blade, which gives you HP for the necessary survivability for early duels, Dmg, for last hitting minions and crucial dmg for duels, Lifesteal is nice to get ur HP back. 6% of ~65 dmg is about 4hp/attack, which is ok. Doran's shield can be considered too. But it depends on your style. However Doran's blade is better to keep control of mid-lane. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On June 30 2010 23:23 Juicyfruit wrote: Then I just counter with fort pot Kennen. My autoattacks are still stronger (double damage every 5 hits) and I can stun Are you serious? Kennen has absolutely no chance against Ashe even if she starts with a meki pendant. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On June 30 2010 23:42 Southlight wrote: You don't have a choice if you don't open a ditto build. I will zone you. At that point, given the open space between me (standing past your creep) and you, the only thing you can do is abuse Shuriken and make me respect your combo. Either that, or you need to get a jungler or something to gank me. Even if I know you have Shuriken I'm personally so aggressive I'll hang in there anyways daring you to land a Shuriken strike on me, and only after one or two of these exchanges might I even think about playing less aggressively - I'll hang on and keep trying to dodge your combo until I decide I can no longer maintain my victory of attrition. How many champs besides red-potted ashe can zone kennen to this extent anyways? Even then, I just don't see it working out for ashe if she's going to be standing on my side of the creeps and I actually get within call for help range. Remember, trading 5 hits with kennen = you'll get stunned once. Shuriken or not, I STILL need to get into autoattack range regardless to get that stun in. It makes no difference how I get that first mark of the storm because unless I'm going to commit to a last-hitting fight, I'm just going to eat more damage on the way out. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
Kennen does, however, own Panth in the face, which is really funny. | ||
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Orpheos
United States1663 Posts
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
On June 30 2010 23:55 Orpheos wrote: can anyone properly explain to me a case where taking doran blade over shield is appropriate as a first item? i just dont see it. life steal is almost negligible and autoattacking to heal up is generally not going to happen in laning especially when you most need it(getting zoned/pressured). and i dont feel like the AD is enough to justify losing the staying power of shield. If you're going to stack Blades, maybe. Either that or your hero benefits from the damage (like Akali), maybe? I still think Blade is a terrible item. | ||
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eaT_Mi_Lquid
Germany509 Posts
On June 30 2010 23:53 Southlight wrote: You brought up Ashe, and I explained how badly Ashe beats down a Kennen without Shuriken. I don't know how the matchup works for other heroes, except that I know Kat will also decimate a Kennen. Kennen does, however, own Panth in the face, which is really funny. From my experiences I go 50-50 with Kat. Kat can deal a lot of dmg with here bouncing thingy and tp, but I can hurt to. If she jumps into me, its a free Shuriken hit. I always have to make sure that my "W" is on 3/4. to punish her. It's always fun to play Kennen vs. Kat. mid. it really depends on the players. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On June 30 2010 23:55 Orpheos wrote: can anyone properly explain to me a case where taking doran blade over shield is appropriate as a first item? i just dont see it. life steal is almost negligible and autoattacking to heal up is generally not going to happen in laning especially when you most need it(getting zoned/pressured). and i dont feel like the AD is enough to justify losing the staying power of shield. Jungling as Warwick, AD Ezreal, Tristana, Master Yi. I'd get Doran's blade if I was looking for some extra damage to help with lasthitting, was possibly planning on clearing a few neutral camps without another lifesteal item, and still wanted some of that Doran survivability. | ||
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