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Use E to close the gap if they're trying to stay outside your range. Shuriken is a huge drain on your energy pool.
We can play a game sometime if you like. I don't claim to be good, but I know how to abuse character advantages :3
I play on EU but dosnt matter i just have never tried your approach with kennen and servers are still down so i was kinda fishing for more intel before they come back up. Before when 4 heroes where chosen and it was apparent id be forced to go mid i would pick Kennen and simply stay alive last hitting and harassing with shuriken and stalling for lvl 6. then id try to kill the opposing teams champion by drawing them out and stunning them while ult is up. That i get, i just never knew you could do it before lvl 6 xD.
I use 9/00/21 utility for the extra xp and cooldown reduction though, could have something to do with it.
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On June 30 2010 17:00 Chrispy wrote:
Yeah, that turned out to be a really good game. It started out horribly for me, with two pirates bottom gimping eachother to all hell and crazy level 6 rammus with both buffs running in there.
I totally thought we were screwed but yeah, turned out to be a really intense game... I really did not know who was going to win until like the last 2 minutes. I'm not exactly sure if I love the cannon barrage buff or the raise morale change more.
Oh and our Kog'Maw was crying so hard lol. @_@
I thought you guys were going to win for a while
i had an amazingly lucky/good early game, rolling in and smacking and getting a ton of successful ganks...and then your shen kept baiting us into annie and we bunched up for her stunbear multiple teamfights>.<
we kept getting outpositioned so i thought we would lose, but i kept hoping, then for a bit it looked like we might turn it around lol
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Kennen needs the shuriken to apply a Mark from safe range, then he can instantly stun the opponent with W´s Active and Passive without running face first into the enemy. E is for farming, escaping and chasing, it is NOT a initiator. Kennen can´t reliably AOEstun the other Team because his ult applies Marks unreliably. His ult works better if there are few targets not many!
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On June 30 2010 17:13 Madkipz wrote:Show nested quote +
Use E to close the gap if they're trying to stay outside your range. Shuriken is a huge drain on your energy pool.
We can play a game sometime if you like. I don't claim to be good, but I know how to abuse character advantages :3
I play on EU but dosnt matter i just have never tried your approach with kennen and servers are still down so i was kinda fishing for more intel before they come back up. Before when 4 heroes where chosen and it was apparent id be forced to go mid i would pick Kennen and simply stay alive last hitting and harassing with shuriken and stalling for lvl 6. then id try to kill the opposing teams champion by drawing them out and stunning them while ult is up. That i get, i just never knew you could do it before lvl 6 xD. I use 9/00/21 utility for the extra xp and cooldown reduction though, could have something to do with it.
21 defense spec lets you be super aggressive because between defensive mastery and harden skin, you're taking very little damage from minions. This is how you can end up winning auto-attack wars on THEIR side of the turf with kennen.
i use teleport/cleanse on kennen.
Do adapt your build a little depending on who's against you. For instance, today I had to mid against heimer in mid. Obviously not easy to deal with, but I modified my build so that instead of zhonya or rylais, I went for 2 regrowth pendent (after doran's shield ofc) with the intent on building into force of nature (maybe not the BEST item for kennen, but still very good).
I ended up outlasting heimer through both his teleport AND clarity AND golem buff (though I had teleport as well).
On June 30 2010 17:38 Unentschieden wrote:
Kennen needs the shuriken to apply a Mark from safe range, then he can instantly stun the opponent with W´s Active and Passive without running face first into the enemy. E is for farming, escaping and chasing, it is NOT a initiator. Kennen can´t reliably AOEstun the other Team because his ult applies Marks unreliably. His ult works better if there are few targets not many!
That's what I thought so too, until I realized that shurikens ended up being completely detrimental to kennen's survival because it eats up a whole lot of energy without accomplishing a whole lot. Yeah it's a little poke, but kennen's not ezreal. He can't afford the energy to poke before the real battle starts. He needs his energy above 110 at ALL time otherwise he cannot start his ball.
For laning, the best and most reliable way to apply the first mark of the storm is simply with a W-procced autoattack. You don't need shuriken. It's pretty easy to keep at least 1 mark of the storm on the enemy mid the entire time without ever using shuriken, once you get level 3 W, because by then the cooldown for W is shorter than the rate mark of the storm decays.
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True shuriken is too expensive what it does in general. But it´s necessary to be able to stun at will. You ideally want to reserve the W active for the final Mark since it´s the easiest and most reliable one to apply. That is why kennen is so difficult to play, you don´t want to stun a lot you want to stun them when it´s most detremential to the enemy / beneficial to you. To be clear, shuriken isn´t for poking or damage but purely for being available for another Mark.
Without the (possibility of the) mark provided by shuriken Kennen is too predictable and you are too likely to be only able to stun when the enemy lets you instead of when you want to.
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So, heim has been alot of fun lately (whenever I get a half-decent team anyways). Dunno if I will end up buying him when the hero rotation ends though. He is just such a mana whore, early game I just end up broke on mana so easily, reminds me of my familys SUV with gas. I usually start with a Meki Pendant and a couple of red potions. Even tried a Sapphire for a starter but that extra 200 is enough for another grenade, or turret.
Cho'Gath is interesting as well. I generally like him, but he is soo slow, and like heim, very mana hungry if you want to spam rupture.
Generally, I just build AP items on him, but in games I see alot of Cho's rush to Warmogs. Is this if you jungle with him or something? I don't get it.
Also, this is the last time I try to post using my ps3 controller....
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but in games I see alot of Cho's rush to Warmogs. Is this if you jungle with him or something? I don't get it. MF CHOGARTH build, has nothing to do with jungle, its just MF CHOGARTH. its based on the fact that you gain hp with ulti so you become this super hp damage sponge that cant die so enemies will grow hesitant in attacking you because you are giant have loads of hp and an ultimate that does alot of damage.
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Morgana is my new pubstomping champ after kennen. It's amazing how people underestimate her ult and think it's a good idea to 1v1 her.
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On June 30 2010 19:56 Juicyfruit wrote:
Morgana is my new pubstomping champ after kennen. It's amazing how people underestimate her ult and think it's a good idea to 1v1 her.
its amazing how alot of people over estimate their chances of killing anyone remotely on the defensive, depends on hero ofc but its not just morgana, im for instance experiencing the same with blitzcrank. xD
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On June 30 2010 19:46 Enki wrote:
So, heim has been alot of fun lately (whenever I get a half-decent team anyways). Dunno if I will end up buying him when the hero rotation ends though. He is just such a mana whore, early game I just end up broke on mana so easily, reminds me of my familys SUV with gas. I usually start with a Meki Pendant and a couple of red potions. Even tried a Sapphire for a starter but that extra 200 is enough for another grenade, or turret.
Cho'Gath is interesting as well. I generally like him, but he is soo slow, and like heim, very mana hungry if you want to spam rupture.
Generally, I just build AP items on him, but in games I see alot of Cho's rush to Warmogs. Is this if you jungle with him or something? I don't get it.
Also, this is the last time I try to post using my ps3 controller....
Grab the neutral buff Masteries and be shure to secure the blue buff. Also never get CDR (expect maybe deathfire) since he maxes out naturally with the buff.
Never get Warmoggs, on anyone. It´s an incredibly inefficient item, HP/regen also looses a lot value as the game goes on. It´s just bad unless you try to maximise HP from a single Inventory slot - but thats it´s only redeeming feature. You´d be better off to get Rylais and use the slow to actually land Rupture sometimes.
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I ran into an interesting kat build I found frustrating to deal with as tristana.
Open: boots + 3 pots -> I did fairly well here, was ahead in CS and fairly quickly forced him to burn all his potions and make a trip back home about half way through level 5
1st trip home: ninja tabi + red pot +2 healing pots -> I hadn't made a trip home at this point so he had an advantage when he showed back up. We traded hits a couple times and farmed for a couple min until he hit lvl 7. I soaked up a few hits of his ultimate before I could get a good angle to buster shot him away, but he was able to tower dive me by burning his red pot, ghosting and shunpoing so I was trapped at my tower. I died, he made it out with a sliver of life and heads home to heal
Trip 2: 2 doran shields +2 potions-> I bought a phange and some boots and TP'd back to my lane. When he showed up with the two doran shields with a red elixir active (1700+hp +armor + regen + dmg + dodge) there was nothing I could really do. I was lucky to have a good team that responded to my gank requests, and we got him twice in a relatively small amount of time. Even after that though he just kept going back to the lane to farm and started stacking BF swords. He was so beefy with all that HP/Armor/Regen that it took several of us to gank him.
We won the game in a pretty convincing manor, but I feel like his build has a lot of potential vs physical DPSers. I realize he wouldnt have been able to afford the double doran shields so quickly if I hadn't died, but some kats could probably farm them roughly as fast by focusing more on last hitting since his CS wasn't out of control.
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If you think about how that game turned out, you'll see that it's actually a terrible build on kat. Yeah she could beat YOU in mid, but she spent so much money on defense that she didn't have the damage needed to be a dangerous ganker.
Incidentally, word on the street is, Kassadin's getting a new move next patch =]
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On June 30 2010 19:50 Madkipz wrote:Show nested quote +but in games I see alot of Cho's rush to Warmogs. Is this if you jungle with him or something? I don't get it. MF CHOGARTH build, has nothing to do with jungle, its just MF CHOGARTH. its based on the fact that you gain hp with ulti so you become this super hp damage sponge that cant die so enemies will grow hesitant in attacking you because you are giant have loads of hp and an ultimate that does alot of damage.
Don't build MF Chogath. Here's a better guide, written by me. It's mainly for solo lane but it has a little effectiveness in a 2v2 as well.
Chogath is Top-Tier (Again)
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On June 30 2010 17:00 Chrispy wrote:
Yeah, that turned out to be a really good game. It started out horribly for me, with two pirates bottom gimping eachother to all hell and crazy level 6 rammus with both buffs running in there.
I totally thought we were screwed but yeah, turned out to be a really intense game... I really did not know who was going to win until like the last 2 minutes. I'm not exactly sure if I love the cannon barrage buff or the raise morale change more.
Oh and our Kog'Maw was crying so hard lol. @_@
your Kog'Maw also had no idea how to position. I feel like both times we almost got back into the game were products of Kog'Maw getting caught all alone and death comboed by our team. but yea, I'm with turkey, I was pretty sure we were gonna lose for the last 10 minutes or so, but then we won that one teamfight where I GA rezed and literally just ran past your entire team from dragon to your golem just to kill you (fucking pirate!), and I thought we might be back in it, but it turns out you were too far ahead of me and farmed GP > farmed Panth in the end game.
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On June 30 2010 15:51 Juicyfruit wrote:
Ashe can't win against kennen (unless maybe she red pots) because if she tries to last hit -> Energy ball to close gap, autohit with charged W, W. If she trades hits with you at this point, she'll get stunned and you'll win out. Your spells will come off cooldown again shortly so it's a very dangerous situation if she doesn't back off.
I'm sorry but I really don't see kennen pulling this off against a good Ashe. If you are saving your W charged auto attack all of the time then you aren't last hitting. Without shuriken you have no way of guaranteeing that you have the first mark on her so that you can play aggressively. It is very easy for Ashe to punish the kind of tactic that you describe considering her passive and slowing abilities. I don't know why anyone wouldn't take a point in shuriken when really you should only be using it to try to keep up one mark on the enemy champ but I never put more than one point into it until late game.
Also, are any other long time Anivia users in love with the new changes? They are pretty much exactly what I described her needing to a friend when I first started playing her.
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On June 30 2010 20:22 Unentschieden wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2010 19:46 Enki wrote:
So, heim has been alot of fun lately (whenever I get a half-decent team anyways). Dunno if I will end up buying him when the hero rotation ends though. He is just such a mana whore, early game I just end up broke on mana so easily, reminds me of my familys SUV with gas. I usually start with a Meki Pendant and a couple of red potions. Even tried a Sapphire for a starter but that extra 200 is enough for another grenade, or turret.
Cho'Gath is interesting as well. I generally like him, but he is soo slow, and like heim, very mana hungry if you want to spam rupture.
Generally, I just build AP items on him, but in games I see alot of Cho's rush to Warmogs. Is this if you jungle with him or something? I don't get it.
Also, this is the last time I try to post using my ps3 controller....
Never get Warmoggs, on anyone. It´s an incredibly inefficient item, HP/regen also looses a lot value as the game goes on. It´s just bad unless you try to maximise HP from a single Inventory slot - but thats it´s only redeeming feature. You´d be better off to get Rylais and use the slow to actually land Rupture sometimes.
I get warmogs on rammus. But I have a weird style when it comes to rammus. I solo farm a lot and join teamfights unexpectedly.
In any case, having lots of HP regen isn't terrible in the current format. So much poking. 99HP regen / 5 is still 99 extra EHP every 5 second. With rammus' bubble, that's a lot of damage being soaked.
On June 30 2010 23:12 Scorcher2k wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2010 15:51 Juicyfruit wrote:
Ashe can't win against kennen (unless maybe she red pots) because if she tries to last hit -> Energy ball to close gap, autohit with charged W, W. If she trades hits with you at this point, she'll get stunned and you'll win out. Your spells will come off cooldown again shortly so it's a very dangerous situation if she doesn't back off.
I'm sorry but I really don't see kennen pulling this off against a good Ashe. If you are saving your W charged auto attack all of the time then you aren't last hitting. Without shuriken you have no way of guaranteeing that you have the first mark on her so that you can play aggressively. It is very easy for Ashe to punish the kind of tactic that you describe considering her passive and slowing abilities. I don't know why anyone wouldn't take a point in shuriken when really you should only be using it to try to keep up one mark on the enemy champ but I never put more than one point into it until late game. Also, are any other long time Anivia users in love with the new changes? They are pretty much exactly what I described her needing to a friend when I first started playing her.
Why am I not last hitting again? The passive proc occurs quite often. It's not a big deal if I last hit with it. I never let go of a last-hit in exchange for harassing. However, if Ashe's volley is ever on cooldown, she's very much screwed because I will just energy ball into my autoattack range and spam a couple of marks on her (people don't seem to understand how fast that thing is) She CANNOT get away from me when I want to autoattack.
By level 5, those marks will never go away unless Ashe gets out of exp range.
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At the moment on Rammus I run HoG -> Sunfire -> GA -> Randuin but I'm pondering just going straight GA -> Sunfire -> MORE SUNFIREZ, heh.
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On June 30 2010 14:21 HazMat wrote:
For people that use Push To Talk on ventrilo, what hotkey do you use? I used to use left alt but when I play shaco or annie that gets annoying. I can't move when holding ctrl, and I que up moves with shift. Not sure what to use...
Don't use push to talk, IMO. I use a discontinued headset, but it's similar to this one:
http://www.sennheiserusa.com/private_headsets_pc_pro-gaming_skype-voip_500922
You can move the rod that connects to the mike to a vertical position if you want to talk to someone in your room without transmitting, and the default will be to transmit whenever you're talking. Much more comfortable and less awkward in my experience.
On June 30 2010 16:55 sleeepy wrote:
Hah, a 2-6 Ashe was just telling me how bad tank Nunu was (2-4 at the time). Then the other team dumped their load on me in 2 teamfights, were unable to kill me and then were promptly aced. I rest my case.
I agree with Nunu being a bad tank. If you're buying defensive items, then you have little AP, which means your contributions to your team are a snare and a buff. In teamfights all it takes is to save a silence/stun/knocked airborne/what have you for Nunu and he's mostly useless- he can't tank properly because you can't protect your teammates in any way (no real CC). To be fair, if you won the team fight and get to pursue fleeing enemy champions after, Nunu is really good at that.
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On June 30 2010 23:14 Southlight wrote:
At the moment on Rammus I run HoG -> Sunfire -> GA -> Randuin but I'm pondering just going straight GA -> Sunfire -> MORE SUNFIREZ, heh.
That's so boring.
Also, does it really work if you don't get an HP-tank item first?
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On June 30 2010 23:12 Juicyfruit wrote:
Why am I not last hitting again? The passive proc occurs quite often. It's not a big deal if I last hit with it. I never let go of a last-hit in exchange for harassing. However, if Ashe's volley is ever on cooldown, she's very much screwed because I will just energy ball into my autoattack range and spam a couple of marks on her. She CANNOT get away from this.
By level 5, those marks will never go away unless Ashe gets out of exp range.
Incidentally, Ashe with Fort will just autoattack you from the get-go and zone you out of exp range. I still cannot comprehend why people would run Ashe in a solo lane without Fort.
On June 30 2010 23:20 Juicyfruit wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2010 23:14 Southlight wrote:
At the moment on Rammus I run HoG -> Sunfire -> GA -> Randuin but I'm pondering just going straight GA -> Sunfire -> MORE SUNFIREZ, heh. That's so boring. Also, does it really work if you don't get an HP-tank item first?
I'm assuming you're talking about the second one. I'm not sure, the reason why I ponder it is because I open Cloth 5xpots anyways, and seeing as how Cloth is part of GA I wonder if it's better to just rush GA. I know most of the Tarics I see rush GA, but maybe the heal + ult makes up for the lack of HP item.
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EPT
