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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On November 03 2010 03:21 Mogwai wrote: I still think Swain is the worst character in the game... it seems like he does absolutely nothing... lol he tricks people into attacking him, REGEN SWAIN FTW warmog's, spirit visage, force of nature!!! and like 3 philo stones | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On November 03 2010 03:21 Mogwai wrote: I still think Swain is the worst character in the game... it seems like he does absolutely nothing... lol I see your Swain and raise you an Urgot. Birdman has an AOE snare at least. huk | ||
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Pandonetho
Canada321 Posts
Someone fucking back me up so I don't feel like I'm delusional. Thx. There was draft mode last patch. I've played on it before. | ||
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Ecael
United States6703 Posts
On November 03 2010 03:21 NeoIllusions wrote: No, I swear last patch, there was blind, draft, and all random options when hosting practice games. Someone fucking back me up so I don't feel like I'm delusional. Thx. They existed, but I thought the draft mode didn't work last patch. EDIT - oh, it worked? Huh. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On November 03 2010 03:24 NeoIllusions wrote: I see your Swain and raise you an Urgot. Birdman has an AOE snare at least. huk I dunno, at least Urgot seems to take a dump on people during laning... I seriously see nothing that swain does well, LOL. I honestly thought the buff to his AP ratios would help a lot but he still hits like a soggy paper towel and his character still doesn't make any fucking sense! "Herp de derp, I'm teh master tactician! ummm, what's a good tactical set of abilities... hmmmm.... BIRDS, NOTHING'S MORE TACTICAL THAN BIRDS! EXCEPT FOR MAYBE BIRDMEN WHO SHOOT BIRDS, OMG FOUND MY ULT!" | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 03 2010 03:22 spinesheath wrote: The only reasonable way to determine champ prices is estimating how well a champ will sell at each of the prices they have and then pick the option that yields the most money overall. Wouldn't they always want the IP cost to be 6300 then? They don't make money off of people buying the champ with IP, and if the IP cost is high, the comparative RP cost looks much better. | ||
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GranDim
Canada1214 Posts
On November 03 2010 02:59 oberon wrote: There is some evidence Riot is using a 2 layer engine, in which the core engine exposes a mostly-declarative scripting API. A new champion implemented entirely in the scripting language will not only require less work, it will require less expensive work. This is for a couple reasons. Any time a two layer implementation like this is used, it's only the best/most experienced people working on the core engine. Their time is worth more than that of less talented/experienced people, making these hours more expensive. Auxiliary tasks such as QA and documentation on the core are also more expensive, since you can break pretty much anything by adding new features to the scripting layer (since all features in that layer must interact properly), and anything in the core has to be super-well documented, unit-tested, etc. That said, I doubt it's how champion pricing is determined. How is champion pricing determined? NFI. But the above may be interesting to people outside the development industry. From my understanding the employees working on the scripting API are the technical designers/designers, they aren't as well versed in programming as the engineers but they directly implement the champions and items so I doubt their work is less expensive. Engineers are in higher demand because engine changes take more time to implement and engineers also work on things like replay and observer mode. | ||
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On November 03 2010 03:29 Mogwai wrote: I dunno, at least Urgot seems to take a dump on people during laning... I seriously see nothing that swain does well, LOL. I honestly thought the buff to his AP ratios would help a lot but he still hits like a soggy paper towel and his character still doesn't make any fucking sense! "Herp de derp, I'm teh master tactician! ummm, what's a good tactical set of abilities... hmmmm.... BIRDS, NOTHING'S MORE TACTICAL THAN BIRDS! EXCEPT FOR MAYBE BIRDMEN WHO SHOOT BIRDS, OMG FOUND MY ULT!" dude birds are tactiful as fuc k stfu l2p k t hx evil woman(Obligatory ELO mention) | ||
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TieN.nS)
United States2131 Posts
On November 03 2010 03:21 NeoIllusions wrote: No, I swear last patch, there was blind, draft, and all random options when hosting practice games. Someone fucking back me up so I don't feel like I'm delusional. Thx. Yep, I made a comment about needing a special client (the one players used for WCG) to make draft mode practice games on Loco's stream but nyx corrected me. It was definitely there last patch, though I have no idea when it was added. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On November 03 2010 03:29 TheYango wrote: Wouldn't they always want the IP cost to be 6300 then? They don't make money off of people buying the champ with IP, and if the IP cost is high, the comparative RP cost looks much better. you have to weigh that up against community backlash for high prices. The community has been known to bitch at consecutive 6300 champions and you need to try to keep the customers happy *shrug*. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On November 03 2010 03:29 Mogwai wrote: I dunno, at least Urgot seems to take a dump on people during laning... I seriously see nothing that swain does well, LOL. I honestly thought the buff to his AP ratios would help a lot but he still hits like a soggy paper towel and his character still doesn't make any fucking sense! "Herp de derp, I'm teh master tactician! ummm, what's a good tactical set of abilities... hmmmm.... BIRDS, NOTHING'S MORE TACTICAL THAN BIRDS! EXCEPT FOR MAYBE BIRDMEN WHO SHOOT BIRDS, OMG FOUND MY ULT!" I dunno, Swain is pretty niche. Laser bird has the potential of being amazing. I haven't seen a solo top Sion shutdown as hard before until I saw Hotshot do it with Swain. Was pretty hilarious. Sion shields up? LASER BIRD! No farm for you. Just zone Sion and laser bird him every time he shields. Once you hit 6, you can heal off any Sion stuns. | ||
NonY
8748 Posts
On November 03 2010 03:12 STS17 wrote: I too am studying CS in college, game development in particular. I never said they pay the coders less and you are jumping to conclusions without thinking. If something can be recycled, it takes less time to develop then something brand new. If you still agree here keep reading, if you disagree don't bother with the rest of the post because I've already lost you. If I can develop a new skill for a new champion in one hour because I can reuse code from other skills but designing it from scratch takes four hours then designing it from scratch is more expensive. This is because you have to pay the developer for more time (four hours of pay vs one hour) then if he recycled the old stuff since it simply takes longer. If you don't think time is a form of expense then you should take a business or economics class. I doubt that they justify the price of each champion individually. I think they are free to use a pricing strategy that is best for the longterm health of the game. They have a plan for developing, releasing and pricing all of their future champions. The stories about paying the developers less or giving them time off are relevant because you are assuming this champion-by-champion, day-by-day method of running a company. You seem to have grasped half of the reason why that's ridiculous and if you grasp the other half then you'd abandon the idea of pricing champions based on these micro development cycles. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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NonY
8748 Posts
On November 03 2010 03:34 Mogwai wrote: you have to weigh that up against community backlash for high prices. The community has been known to bitch at consecutive 6300 champions and you need to try to keep the customers happy *shrug*. Yeah I think throwing in some 3150's is good longterm and it makes sense to do it on leblanc after we've just had similar champions released (lux swain) i completely agree with spinesheath, that pricing is based on what will sell, but you gotta consider longterm plan with that as well | ||
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SayaSP
Laos5494 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On November 03 2010 03:37 Mogwai wrote: Sion sits in bushes. Swain comes near. Stun -> shield, WHERE'D YOUR HEALTH GO BRO? I dunno, I obviously didn't see the HSGG game, but I have a pretty much impossible time believing that swain actually beats sion 1v1. Granted that Sion didn't use brush strategically but assuming that Sion hides in brush, Swain can go in, eat a stun and still break the shield. You obviously wouldn't time it poorly where you walk into brush 3 seconds after Sion does. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Pandonetho
Canada321 Posts
Sion's spells cost so much mana for the amount of mana he starts with, I think Swain would probably get more efficient harassment out of his spells. But I dunno... personally I play DPS Sion. 100+ damage at level 1 is too good to pass up for me. | ||
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oberon
United States1320 Posts
On November 03 2010 03:30 GranDim wrote: From my understanding the employees working on the scripting API are the technical designers/designers, they aren't as well versed in programming as the engineers but they directly implement the champions and items so I doubt their work is less expensive. Vastly less expensive. First off, game design is a job You Can't Get. I mean, if someone said "I'll pay you money to make up video games", what would you say? Because of this, hourly wages in game coding are less than half what they are in the rest of development (you get paid about 10-20% less and work 200%-300% the number of hours). Designers are even worse, because you don't even have to write mucky code. Often, the big wigs at small firms are the original designers, so they're doing it themselves, because they enjoy it. Overall, design costs basically zero dollars. While this same effect makes game dev cheaper, at some point, you do need someone good writing your engine. That person may or may not take a pay cut to work on a game, and even if they do will be making more than a designer makes. This is, by the way, part of why you don't get replay mode. A new champ requires design, minimal coding, art, voice, and QA -- these are all vastly cheaper than adding engine features, and a new champ actually brings in money. | ||
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
On November 03 2010 03:21 NeoIllusions wrote: No, I swear last patch, there was blind, draft, and all random options when hosting practice games. Someone fucking back me up so I don't feel like I'm delusional. Thx. Yes, draft mode was already available with Halloween patch. Also another "stealth change" - top left corner you can see client version. New tutorial icon cause new tutorial will come out. Practice games renamed to custom games. And obviously end of the cool Halloween map/items. Also in champ select "random" button doesnt work for me :/ (at least in custom games) | ||
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