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League of Legends [New forum, check OP!] - Page 1141

Forum Index > General Games
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Jazriel
Profile Joined April 2008
Canada404 Posts
October 06 2010 17:12 GMT
#22801
Zilean is useless? He used to be my main, and I consider myself to have improved since I last played him, but perma-slowing someone on their team and his ulti were what he was really about. Bomb spamming became pushing power late-game unless you built him for fragile AP and had 1k bombs floating around.

But how is he useless?
#1 LoL player
barbsq
Profile Joined November 2009
United States5348 Posts
October 06 2010 17:12 GMT
#22802
server is back up
Look at this guy, constantly diluting himself! (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
October 06 2010 17:16 GMT
#22803
Let's see, he does no damage, his snare is significantly worse than a lot of snare-bots, his ult is even worse than ult-bot Kayle (pre-rework), and he's fragile as hell.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
myopia
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2928 Posts
October 06 2010 17:18 GMT
#22804
Zil is good at being a complete dick in lane.


There's a chance of Ezreal usurping Nasus as my main. I've carried harder and posted better scores as Ez in the past 2 days than on any other champ, in all the months I've played LoL.

sample build:

Ezreallmatic
+ Show Spoiler +
arpen/mp5plvl/mp5plvl/movespeed
0/9/21
flash/ghost


runes - arpen quints may be a better idea, but I don't have them. MS rocks though so it doesn't bother me.

masteries - I've tried points in offensive, but hate laning without meditation and SoS.


items
dblade+hpot
mercs/bruta/sheen/BT (in some order)
triforce
ghostblade/banshees/GA (in some order)


I typically have a decent early-midgame, then I get triforce'd and become a killing machine. (e.g. two games this week: start 1-1-5/5-3-2 ->triforce-> finish 13-1-13/20-5-15).

Triforce on everyone.
it's my first day
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
October 06 2010 17:20 GMT
#22805
On October 07 2010 02:16 Southlight wrote:
Let's see, he does no damage, his snare is significantly worse than a lot of snare-bots, his ult is even worse than ult-bot Kayle (pre-rework), and he's fragile as hell.

Ya, really the only time he can actually be useful is when he has a GA, can ulti a completely fed supercarry who can 1v5, and sit comfortably outside and watch the carnage without really doing anything despite the fact he is unkillable himself since he cant actually do enough damage. And should the supercarry still die, all he has to do is get GA'd, run around a bit till the carry respawns (since he cant do any damage himself), and rinse and repeat.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
Jazriel
Profile Joined April 2008
Canada404 Posts
October 06 2010 17:29 GMT
#22806
On October 07 2010 02:16 Southlight wrote:
Let's see, he does no damage, his snare is significantly worse than a lot of snare-bots, his ult is even worse than ult-bot Kayle (pre-rework), and he's fragile as hell.



None of this makes sense to me.

Q:
-Starts solid and becomes a good pushing/farming skill late-game.

W:
-Allows double-bomb combos early- and mid-game.
-Enhances the flexibility of his E.
-Allows usage of multiple R's during a teamfight.

E:
-Can perma-slow enemies
--Completely removes their ability to position themselves. Tanks can't tank, DPS can't engage, etc.

-Can haste/save allies
--Can improve the ability of allies to position themselves, enables ganks, and allows saves

-Makes Zilean nearly-unkillable. Who can keep up with someone with over 500 MS?

R:
-Controls tempo in teamfights. A good Zilean will be aware of which heroes their team is focusing and allows their focus to be rendered significantly less-effective, combo'd with his E gives Zilean a lot of control of team fights.

-Is now better than Guardian Angel

-Allows saves and manipulates number advantages. Instead of losing an ally and being 5v4, you can keep it at 5v5 or if there's an even 141 trade your team now has the 5v4 advantage.


As for being squishy, Zilean should be running around with nearly 2.5k life. Only a strong CC combo will be able to actually kill him, and if they're using CC on a support I'd say that's still to your advantage.


I'm just genuinely curious as to how Zilean can be bad. Soul Shroud + AA is like all you need.



The only "bad" thing about Zilean, is that smart opponents will detonate his bombs early-game against their own creeps to maintain lane control. But I've never met someone smart enough to do that on purpose. *Shrugs*
#1 LoL player
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
October 06 2010 17:31 GMT
#22807
Zil's definitely not the worst champ, sure his lategame is relegated to HASTE + ULT THE CARRY but he's an early game champ. You need to use his lane domination in a favorable lane to give your lane opponent a bad start and try to win early. Free life for your dps at level 8 dragon fight is beastly and he can hold off a 1 or 2 man push with bombs until the mid-teens. He just drops off into oblivion unless Olaf is on your team lategame
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-06 17:41:07
October 06 2010 17:35 GMT
#22808
Or you could play Sona/Janna/Taric/etc. and have early-game strength... and be massively useful throughout the game, regardless of whether you have a fed Olaf or not!

Amazing concept.

Or if you want a "free life" you could play Kayle, who has an arguably better ult, has a speed boost, snare, and damage amplification, and, oh by the way, she's one of the top 3 ranged DPS heroes in the game. As a tiny bonus, she's not reliant on a fed Olaf to be any worthwhile.

Edit:
While we're on that topic, if we want a side-lane aggressive zoning + snarebot we could play Ashe, who works incredibly well with other support heroes, does significantly more damage to champions, and has an AoE snare with a low cooldown.

But no, we can stick with Zilean, he of the one spell that pisses people off until about level 7 (and even then he gets dominated by a lot of heroes like Kassadin and now Sona, and he's also a bad choice for babysitting someone in lane because he himself sort of needs babysit). 'Cause, you know, creep-clearing in the 2v2 lane is awesome, except not really. But hey for whatever it's worth if he farms creep he'll get really farmed instead of his lane partner, but that's no problem.

Or he can have a solo lane and no one gives a flying rat's ass. Hahah.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
barbsq
Profile Joined November 2009
United States5348 Posts
October 06 2010 17:45 GMT
#22809
ive almost never played zil, but ive always viewed him as being just a mere annoyance. His usefulness also seems to hinge on the rest of your team being reasonably good, which is part of the reason why i was never really interested in playing him
Look at this guy, constantly diluting himself! (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-06 17:48:54
October 06 2010 17:48 GMT
#22810
It's actually even worse at higher levels of play, because for instance if I'm laning against Zilean and he puts a bomb on me I run toward my creep. Standard operating procedure. Easy creep return, safe farming for me and easy jungle ganks for our team. So awesome.

Edit:
Also what the hell am I going to do with my 5,000th post.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
Athos
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2484 Posts
October 06 2010 17:53 GMT
#22811
I think Zilean works amazingly well with Poppy. I once played against this team that ran a Poppy who had Guardian Angel, DI, and Zileans ult. As a result of that we had to kill her fucking 3 times and by that point she would take out our entire team. So yeah, I think Zilean is definately viable provided you have a really annoying strategy like that planned out.
myopia
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2928 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-06 17:57:35
October 06 2010 17:54 GMT
#22812
On October 07 2010 02:48 Southlight wrote:
Edit:
Also what the hell am I going to do with my 5,000th post.


we should post pants on head retarded advice until you're forced to waste it in here imo


Everybody: rush Frozen Mallet on Ashe, I saw one game one time where this Ashe did really well and she got Mallet first. Do it.
it's my first day
Niton
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2395 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-06 17:59:10
October 06 2010 17:54 GMT
#22813
On October 07 2010 02:48 Southlight wrote:
It's actually even worse at higher levels of play, because for instance if I'm laning against Zilean and he puts a bomb on me I run toward my creep. Standard operating procedure. Easy creep return, safe farming for me and easy jungle ganks for our team. So awesome.

Edit:
Also what the hell am I going to do with my 5,000th post.


Troll the HoN tread? Quick and easy return to posting.

On topic:

I don't get to play Zilean much anymore because there's always a need for tanks and better support, but I think he's good at 2 things - getting your team into teamfights they can win without you being there, and getting your team out of teamfights they can't win because you're there. I've noticed it the last few times i've played him, but he doesn't DO anything in the fights - he's got a nice delayed aoe and a single-target slow.

Taric / Janna / Sona are all just so much better than him at the things supports do. I can't even stand playing Soraka having played those 3, so I can't comment on her.

I think it's hilarious though that the last time they looked at Zilean they decided he was too strong.

edit @Athos: Every single champ in this game is useful with the proper preconditions. Zilean's is just 'have Olaf, but not Tryndamere because his ult interacts badly with it'.
tree.hugger: Coming off of [(T)fantasy v. (T)Really] into [(T)Barracks v. (T)MVP] is like coming out of Manhattan into New Jersey. You just have to speed up and ignore it.
Danzepol
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States211 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-07 16:58:35
October 06 2010 17:58 GMT
#22814
what kind of quints do people run on casters?

i've been using arpen red, mreg/5 yellow and blues, then movespeed or arpen quints.

i can't decide if i want raw AP/level or more Mpen, since i can buy sorc shoes or a void staff if i really need the pen.


im primarily talking about AP TF right now

EDIT: thanks myopia, yea not arpen >_>
in a fox with a box
barbsq
Profile Joined November 2009
United States5348 Posts
October 06 2010 18:01 GMT
#22815
mpen for nuking casters, ap for support casters, altho i like a healthy dose of ms quints on my casters as well, so it really depends, but i think those are basically the 3 choices

for tf, i would probably go mpen, simply because his stuff scales a bit better with levels than with raw ap afaik, so pen benefits a bit more than ap
Look at this guy, constantly diluting himself! (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
myopia
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2928 Posts
October 06 2010 18:02 GMT
#22816
You sure you don't mean MPen? Armor Pen works with autoattacks, MPen works with magic damage. Casters have magic damage.
it's my first day
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
October 06 2010 18:04 GMT
#22817
On October 07 2010 02:48 Southlight wrote:
It's actually even worse at higher levels of play, because for instance if I'm laning against Zilean and he puts a bomb on me I run toward my creep. Standard operating procedure. Easy creep return, safe farming for me and easy jungle ganks for our team. So awesome.

Edit:
Also what the hell am I going to do with my 5,000th post.

you're supposed to run into your ally when u have a bomb on you.
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
Chrispy
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada5878 Posts
October 06 2010 18:09 GMT
#22818
How do I get passed 1650 and into the 1700's? Actually how do I get better? Right now I think I'm at the elo I should be at but I want to get higher. :x Someone pro carry me?
Retvrn to Forvms
BrownBear
Profile Joined March 2010
United States6894 Posts
October 06 2010 18:13 GMT
#22819
Guys, guys, guys. AP Malphite. 1k AOE on your ult, then you shoot them for 600 with your q move as they try to run.

DO IT

+ Show Spoiler +
SUNSFANNED
myopia
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2928 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-06 18:17:11
October 06 2010 18:16 GMT
#22820
Hey guys I've been thinking about playing Kassadin do we have anyone here who plays him

the website says he can be built DPS I'm thinking zerks-manamune-last whisper-bloodrazer
it's my first day
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