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On October 07 2010 02:54 Niton wrote:
edit @Athos: Every single champ in this game is useful with the proper preconditions. Zilean's is just 'have Olaf, but not Tryndamere because his ult interacts badly with it'.
Must disagree with you here. Usually Tryndamere uses his ult when he's near death and takes a few shots at whatever target he's on, then tries to spin away, gain a little health, and run away.
But if he DOESN'T run away, then he's in the middle of a teamfight, hopefully beating on someone important on the other team, and near-death. Plus he should be doing a lot of damage. It's really, really easy to put Zilean's ult on him around 4-5 seconds into his ultimate, and since he (hopefully) knows you're going to do that he can continue to beat on whatever for the full duration of his ult.
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United States17077 Posts
On October 07 2010 04:32 Brees wrote:
ive lost like 50 points already from this new bug, you go into masteries then the entire client just freezes for no reason and randoms your hero and gives you no masteries. what the fuck?
It's been happening since season 1.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On October 07 2010 04:33 HazMat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 04:32 Brees wrote:
ive lost like 50 points already from this new bug, you go into masteries then the entire client just freezes for no reason and randoms your hero and gives you no masteries. what the fuck? It's been happening since season 1.
ive only gotten it since this last patch, has happened in 5 out of 8 games. a little too high of a percentage for my liking
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I've had the mastery freeze happen to me before. I avoid it by sticking to unranked and deciding what hero/masteries I'll play before I queue :|
this happened before yesterday's patch
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That's not nearly as bad as the current karthus bug where when you kill him it says "an ally has been slain" and shows him killing himself and you get no gold or even an assist while sometimes he gets the gold for killing himself
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All this talk about Alistar having a bad passive... What about AD?
I'm thinking all the good damage items (IE, LW, PD, GB) and he could shread towers like Yi with a super Ult (part Olaf part Ryze). And a stun?!
If anything scary comes along he can punt it away. Or pull some sweet DBZ punt-> flash-> Fist Smash!
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On October 07 2010 02:29 Jazriel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 02:16 Southlight wrote:
Let's see, he does no damage, his snare is significantly worse than a lot of snare-bots, his ult is even worse than ult-bot Kayle (pre-rework), and he's fragile as hell. None of this makes sense to me. Q: -Starts solid and becomes a good pushing/farming skill late-game. W: -Allows double-bomb combos early- and mid-game. -Enhances the flexibility of his E. -Allows usage of multiple R's during a teamfight. E: -Can perma-slow enemies --Completely removes their ability to position themselves. Tanks can't tank, DPS can't engage, etc. -Can haste/save allies --Can improve the ability of allies to position themselves, enables ganks, and allows saves -Makes Zilean nearly-unkillable. Who can keep up with someone with over 500 MS? R: -Controls tempo in teamfights. A good Zilean will be aware of which heroes their team is focusing and allows their focus to be rendered significantly less-effective, combo'd with his E gives Zilean a lot of control of team fights. -Is now better than Guardian Angel -Allows saves and manipulates number advantages. Instead of losing an ally and being 5v4, you can keep it at 5v5 or if there's an even 141 trade your team now has the 5v4 advantage. As for being squishy, Zilean should be running around with nearly 2.5k life. Only a strong CC combo will be able to actually kill him, and if they're using CC on a support I'd say that's still to your advantage. I'm just genuinely curious as to how Zilean can be bad. Soul Shroud + AA is like all you need. The only "bad" thing about Zilean, is that smart opponents will detonate his bombs early-game against their own creeps to maintain lane control. But I've never met someone smart enough to do that on purpose. *Shrugs*
This is all theorycrafting unfortunatelly, i've played like 500 games now and 300 of them were with Zilean (first ones, sure, but i still think i kinda remember something about him).
If you want to look him "on paper" you just get the same thing as with mundo - WOW, he has everything good champion needs! But then in game both of them are kinda useless and you can't even "prove" why (ofc we talk about 5v5)
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On October 07 2010 05:19 Kaniol wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 02:29 Jazriel wrote:On October 07 2010 02:16 Southlight wrote:
Let's see, he does no damage, his snare is significantly worse than a lot of snare-bots, his ult is even worse than ult-bot Kayle (pre-rework), and he's fragile as hell. None of this makes sense to me. Q: -Starts solid and becomes a good pushing/farming skill late-game. W: -Allows double-bomb combos early- and mid-game. -Enhances the flexibility of his E. -Allows usage of multiple R's during a teamfight. E: -Can perma-slow enemies --Completely removes their ability to position themselves. Tanks can't tank, DPS can't engage, etc. -Can haste/save allies --Can improve the ability of allies to position themselves, enables ganks, and allows saves -Makes Zilean nearly-unkillable. Who can keep up with someone with over 500 MS? R: -Controls tempo in teamfights. A good Zilean will be aware of which heroes their team is focusing and allows their focus to be rendered significantly less-effective, combo'd with his E gives Zilean a lot of control of team fights. -Is now better than Guardian Angel -Allows saves and manipulates number advantages. Instead of losing an ally and being 5v4, you can keep it at 5v5 or if there's an even 141 trade your team now has the 5v4 advantage. As for being squishy, Zilean should be running around with nearly 2.5k life. Only a strong CC combo will be able to actually kill him, and if they're using CC on a support I'd say that's still to your advantage. I'm just genuinely curious as to how Zilean can be bad. Soul Shroud + AA is like all you need. The only "bad" thing about Zilean, is that smart opponents will detonate his bombs early-game against their own creeps to maintain lane control. But I've never met someone smart enough to do that on purpose. *Shrugs* This is all theorycrafting unfortunatelly, i've played like 500 games now and 300 of them were with Zilean (first ones, sure, but i still think i kinda remember something about him). If you want to look him "on paper" you just get the same thing as with mundo - WOW, he has everything good champion needs! But then in game both of them are kinda useless and you can't even "prove" why (ofc we talk about 5v5) i was in preseason high Elo
i'm in pretty high Elo season 1 (despite my recent loss streak i'm still 1750+ but been as high as 1850)
i was 7th/8th place in North America WCG
i've played around 1000 games
zilean is a good hero.
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rofl @ listing wcg as a credential
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Zilean has his place, I like his passive.. the zilean + kayle + melee carry team is fun
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I played 10 games with Ziziplz... Eve confirmed for Brawl.
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On October 07 2010 05:24 redtooth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 05:19 Kaniol wrote:On October 07 2010 02:29 Jazriel wrote:On October 07 2010 02:16 Southlight wrote:
Let's see, he does no damage, his snare is significantly worse than a lot of snare-bots, his ult is even worse than ult-bot Kayle (pre-rework), and he's fragile as hell. None of this makes sense to me. Q: -Starts solid and becomes a good pushing/farming skill late-game. W: -Allows double-bomb combos early- and mid-game. -Enhances the flexibility of his E. -Allows usage of multiple R's during a teamfight. E: -Can perma-slow enemies --Completely removes their ability to position themselves. Tanks can't tank, DPS can't engage, etc. -Can haste/save allies --Can improve the ability of allies to position themselves, enables ganks, and allows saves -Makes Zilean nearly-unkillable. Who can keep up with someone with over 500 MS? R: -Controls tempo in teamfights. A good Zilean will be aware of which heroes their team is focusing and allows their focus to be rendered significantly less-effective, combo'd with his E gives Zilean a lot of control of team fights. -Is now better than Guardian Angel -Allows saves and manipulates number advantages. Instead of losing an ally and being 5v4, you can keep it at 5v5 or if there's an even 141 trade your team now has the 5v4 advantage. As for being squishy, Zilean should be running around with nearly 2.5k life. Only a strong CC combo will be able to actually kill him, and if they're using CC on a support I'd say that's still to your advantage. I'm just genuinely curious as to how Zilean can be bad. Soul Shroud + AA is like all you need. The only "bad" thing about Zilean, is that smart opponents will detonate his bombs early-game against their own creeps to maintain lane control. But I've never met someone smart enough to do that on purpose. *Shrugs* This is all theorycrafting unfortunatelly, i've played like 500 games now and 300 of them were with Zilean (first ones, sure, but i still think i kinda remember something about him). If you want to look him "on paper" you just get the same thing as with mundo - WOW, he has everything good champion needs! But then in game both of them are kinda useless and you can't even "prove" why (ofc we talk about 5v5) i was in preseason high Elo i'm in pretty high Elo season 1 (despite my recent loss streak i'm still 1750+ but been as high as 1850) i was 7th/8th place in North America WCG i've played around 1000 games zilean is a good hero.
Well, maybe. If it's true then maybe i don't know how to play him anymore.
I'd gladly watch VOD of any good Zil then 
BTW you don't need to tell your "accomplishments", it's not like i post here since today...
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to me, Zilean is like a Kayle who doesn't DPS or heal -
dmg spell: check
slow: check
speed up: check
extra life ult: check
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Nub question but....
How exactly does mpen work? Afaik it's supposed to reduce/penetrate through magic resist, but does it do anything when you have mpen at level 1 where most heroes won't have any magic resist? Can you go below 0 in magic resist?
At some point I keep being cheap with getting a very late sorc boots on kassadin because I feel like that people typically won't get magic resist items until their 3rd or 4th item and mpen is basically useless until then.... but I do feel like I do better when I get sorc boots early as my 2nd item so i'm not sure what to think 
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On October 07 2010 03:16 myopia wrote:
Hey guys I've been thinking about playing Kassadin do we have anyone here who plays him
the website says he can be built DPS I'm thinking zerks-manamune-last whisper-bloodrazer
Fund it
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On October 07 2010 05:49 crazeman wrote:Nub question but.... How exactly does mpen work? Afaik it's supposed to reduce/penetrate through magic resist, but does it do anything when you have mpen at level 1 where most heroes won't have any magic resist? Can you go below 0 in magic resist? At some point I keep being cheap with getting a very late sorc boots on kassadin because I feel like that people typically won't get magic resist items until their 3rd or 4th item and mpen is basically useless until then.... but I do feel like I do better when I get sorc boots early as my 2nd item so i'm not sure what to think
Afaik you can go below 0 MR, but only from flat mpen like runes and sorc boots, which is more difficult now that flat is applied before %
EDIT: but then again maybe i'm a moron
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On October 07 2010 05:49 crazeman wrote:Nub question but.... How exactly does mpen work? Afaik it's supposed to reduce/penetrate through magic resist, but does it do anything when you have mpen at level 1 where most heroes won't have any magic resist? Can you go below 0 in magic resist? At some point I keep being cheap with getting a very late sorc boots on kassadin because I feel like that people typically won't get magic resist items until their 3rd or 4th item and mpen is basically useless until then.... but I do feel like I do better when I get sorc boots early as my 2nd item so i'm not sure what to think
From the way I remember hearing Phreak describe it at WCG USA finals when he was talking about Salce's annie getting Haunting Guise and then from passive runes, "He has 49 mPen right now, meaning anyone below 49 MR will take full spell damage." I'm not sure if you can reduce it below 0 but based on what he said I doubt it. Then again Phreak isn't exactly the best source to go off of, so take that with a grain of salt.
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Magic Pen - flat or % - can't drop you below 0. Mres reduction, such as Abyssal Scepter and Morgana's pool thing, can. You'll take over 100% damage.
I'm not following your logic though, all heroes start with ~30 mres. Get 29 from sorc boots and mpen marks and you're dealing near 100% with your spells.
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United States17077 Posts
On October 07 2010 05:24 redtooth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 05:19 Kaniol wrote:On October 07 2010 02:29 Jazriel wrote:On October 07 2010 02:16 Southlight wrote:
Let's see, he does no damage, his snare is significantly worse than a lot of snare-bots, his ult is even worse than ult-bot Kayle (pre-rework), and he's fragile as hell. None of this makes sense to me. Q: -Starts solid and becomes a good pushing/farming skill late-game. W: -Allows double-bomb combos early- and mid-game. -Enhances the flexibility of his E. -Allows usage of multiple R's during a teamfight. E: -Can perma-slow enemies --Completely removes their ability to position themselves. Tanks can't tank, DPS can't engage, etc. -Can haste/save allies --Can improve the ability of allies to position themselves, enables ganks, and allows saves -Makes Zilean nearly-unkillable. Who can keep up with someone with over 500 MS? R: -Controls tempo in teamfights. A good Zilean will be aware of which heroes their team is focusing and allows their focus to be rendered significantly less-effective, combo'd with his E gives Zilean a lot of control of team fights. -Is now better than Guardian Angel -Allows saves and manipulates number advantages. Instead of losing an ally and being 5v4, you can keep it at 5v5 or if there's an even 141 trade your team now has the 5v4 advantage. As for being squishy, Zilean should be running around with nearly 2.5k life. Only a strong CC combo will be able to actually kill him, and if they're using CC on a support I'd say that's still to your advantage. I'm just genuinely curious as to how Zilean can be bad. Soul Shroud + AA is like all you need. The only "bad" thing about Zilean, is that smart opponents will detonate his bombs early-game against their own creeps to maintain lane control. But I've never met someone smart enough to do that on purpose. *Shrugs* This is all theorycrafting unfortunatelly, i've played like 500 games now and 300 of them were with Zilean (first ones, sure, but i still think i kinda remember something about him). If you want to look him "on paper" you just get the same thing as with mundo - WOW, he has everything good champion needs! But then in game both of them are kinda useless and you can't even "prove" why (ofc we talk about 5v5) i was in preseason high Elo i'm in pretty high Elo season 1 (despite my recent loss streak i'm still 1750+ but been as high as 1850) i was 7th/8th place in North America WCG i've played around 1000 games zilean is a good hero.
ehh, I'm sure there are a lot of other good players that think Zilean is a bad hero. A lot more.
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so for a while i was thinking "man maybe i'm romanticizing how good HS nidalee is". i mean all these people were talking trash about it and saying it wasn't that impressive or shit. then i was reminded of how good it was and it made me realize that it's not me it's
thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiisssssssssssssssss threadddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
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EPT
