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What is the difference between a techable and nontechable knockdown? I know that an untechable knockdown is either a sweep or a throw, and you can't quickstand after. However, does it have anything to do with whether you can tech a throw on wakeup etc.?
If I whiff a jumping attack in the air and hit the ground, I cannot instantly block or do a normal? Often I will jump over my opponent with say, j.lk to crossup, miss, and instantly get thrown. If I mash jab there I will always lose to his throw? Therefore, if I whiff, should I be plinking / hitting c.lp+c.lk in an attempt to OS jab / tech?
More specifically - if I empty jump over him can I now beat his throw with a jab? If I cross him up with j.lk and he blocks, he can shoryu out of my jabjabjab->c.mk->hado blockstring? If I cross him up with j.mk (or j.fp / j.fk) and he blocks, the blockstun prevents him from shoryuing out of it?
If I connect with j.lk the hitstun is sufficient for me to jabjabjabsweep vs every character?
When Abel does his blockstring is there a quick overhead? Same question applies to ChunLi. Every time they do their standard blockstring I end up getting hit when I'm crouchblocking. Do they just have some sort of quick overhead move that I need to be aware of? I always end up getting hit when blocking vs these two characters.
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No, could be you or lag. or something. maybe.
you can, but if you really wanted to beat a throw you should srk instantly instead, since jab is 3frame and their throw (also 3 frame startup) might be already active if they knew you missed. you should be able to block unless theres some recovery there. you could os tech but its actually lk that should come out not lp.
can beat throw with jab but theres a few variables i guess
shoryu will come out if your links are not tight, cmk hadou has a gap that can be focused through. if your crossup is blocked high enough you will get reversaled.
should be able to hit that combo if you hit it right. it shouldnt be too high or the hitstun will be over by then. if they were blocking wrong in the first place you would probably get it.
abel's rekka has an overhead or mid option. mid meaning if you are crouch blocking you get hit, so block first hit then his rekka high until you see the lows. should be obvious. chun-li can cancel into flipkick which is an overhead.
if you are absolutely unsure or still lost, training mode has record. so you can set up experiments.
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When in doubt, check the SRK wiki first, and then training mode if you don't want to be lazy.
If you whiff a jumping attack, you can always tech normal throws on landing. However, you can't block in the first two frames on the ground. Throwing out a jab afterwards is a bad idea unless you're sure the opponent won't do anything, since it will come out later than the opponent's throw attempt or light attack.
Trying to beat throws with jabs is risky unless you have some planned-out blockstring that you can use with consistent timing. It's better to just bait a throw (being out of range) and then punish with something or use some unthrowable move (e.g. Shoryuken FADC whatever).
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infested is this your boy gustavo from utah on wcw3 stream?
edit: nvm confirmed as strider o snap! jajaja took out jsmaster and combofiend
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Game's arriving in the mail tomorrow. I've never played Fighters seriously so I'm the lowest of the low when it comes to scrubs.
My PSN is AirbagMaestro if any kind TLer wants to add me and maybe show me the ropes a little bit.
What are the easiest characters to play? I prefer playing females in fighters and some people suggested Cammy and Juri to me. I guess I should just play everyone until I get a taste for who suits me but a suggestion would be neato to point me in the right direction.
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shoto characters like ryu and ken are the "easiest", but just try every character thoroughly before making a choice.
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I'm surprised no one recommended Chun Li. If you're good at getting into people's heads and screwing with them you should look into learning Matoko as well. My PSN is IdleRightNow, I'll add you so we can play some time. No voice chat though cause I lost my headset. We can use TL pms or w/e so I can just tell you things I notice.
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I still swear Guile is the best for learning to play fighters in SSF4. Just blocking, fireballs and anti airs, it's like fighting game 101 =)
Basically the charge chars are all solid choices to learn in addition to the shotos. I'd avoid juri like the plague, not only is she a little complicated, she's also pretty bad overall. Chun can be fun because you get to rushdown a bit, but her anti airs can be annoying to learn (at least they were for me). By all means though, play what's fun or you'll end up hating it lol
Im TheEvilTree on PSN !
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I just started playing around Christmas time. Still fairly newbish but I'd love some practice partners of any level. Hope its ok to be adding you guys who are posting your PSNs and anyone feel free to add me as well.
PSN: Andwo0o
Trumpet I must thank you for your earlier post explaining the fundamentals of the game. Before I read that I was forward jumping over fireballs, going for lots of psychic DPs, and trying to win with big combos and catching people with ultras. My skill level certainly improved after reading it.  DoctorHelvetica I think it would help you to read it as well...
On November 02 2010 06:51 Trumpet wrote:
Guile, Balrog, Bison, Honda, and Blanka are all FANTASTIC characters to learn the game with. In that order for the most part, though it's a bit subjective.
Simple game plans, nothing crazy combo heavy, and you'll learn to block because you have to hold back to charge.
Learn your anti airs, learn a little basic pressure game, and focus on holding downback, reacting to overheads and tick throws, and forcing your opponent to earn the damage they get on you.
Try not to jump forward much at all. Neutral jump over fireballs so you don't go flying into an uppercut.
Find a couple pokes to use with your character and abuse them. Great examples are guile's backfist, balrog's cr.lp and s.hk, bison's cr.lk and s.mk/hk, honda's nj.hp, blanka's slide and cr.mp. Basic things that can really dominate a matchup when applied properly.
I would recommend Guile as the best character to start with at the moment; but regardless of who you pick, remember that big combos and flashy ultras ultimately might win you some rounds off gimmicky damage, but you'll win matches and sets through spacing, blocking, and punishing. It's comparable to the importance of solid, consistent macro in sc.
You might lose more in the short term learning it this way, but you'll be a ton better in a relatively small amount of time.
There's a ton of great information in the character forums of shoryuken.com as well.
Probably more info than you were looking for, but I hate to see people try to pick up fighters seriously for the first time start out with complicated, execution heavy chars like Viper. gl hf 8]
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Guile is a great char for the reasons he listed and I would add Balrog to that. So much of his game is just good application of normals and he doesn't have any well I can just throw it out and it'll be fine cause I can FADC it move.
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On January 19 2011 21:12 Demoninja wrote:
Guile is a great char for the reasons he listed and I would add Balrog to that. So much of his game is just good application of normals and he doesn't have any well I can just throw it out and it'll be fine cause I can FADC it move.
Flash Kick is used like that sometimes. Just like dp, you can throw it out under pressure or just to guess, and FADC it to be safe.
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Oh sorry if I wasn't being clear, the second sentence was about Balrog only.
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Korea (South)3086 Posts
I personally think that Ryu is the best choice for a beginner. I think that the application of charge characters could be difficult for beginners. He has extremely solid footsies (gdlk cr.forward and strong), 3 frame DP/reversal, moves are all easy to pull off, a combo-able ultra and super, awesome zoning game (good fireballs); and by applying all those, it's very easy to get the fundamentals of the game down: anti-airs, footsies, zoning, punishing, and combos. But again, it's all personal preference.
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Actually I think Rose is the easiest or best for learning. Playing a shoto fireball game effectively is difficult. A beginner would throw a fireball at the wrong time from the wrong distance, get jumped on, and die horribly. Getting used to charging while in the air, in the middle of an attack, etc. with charge characters may be awkward or unintuitive. Some players get stuck trying to charge too much, while others end up not charging enough.
With Rose, you get to focus on moving around and throwing out normals like cr.mp, s.mk, and df.mk (slide) while anti-airing with a simple cr.hp. She doesn't really rely on that many combos, and the only hard part would be the cr.lk, cr.mp link, which is helpful but not integral to her gameplan. She has a fireball worth using in most matchups in some situations, but it's not something you need to master to be reasonably competitive. It's just enough to give a taste of fireball zoning and reading the opponent from across the screen.
Her wakeup options suck and she doesn't have a shoryu-like move to FADC or 3-frame panic-button normal that may be tempting to mash on, so you have to learn proper defense and blocking too. (Well, pre-AE ultra 2 is definitely a get-out-of-jail-free card, but that's only 1, possibly 2 times a round.)
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Ryu is the easiest to learn at the beginning because all his moves are so standard but at the mid and higher level he's also the easiest to read since everyone has practice against shotos. Chun isn't the greatest for starters IMO, I don't think any charge characters are great for beginners. I'd say Zangief is the easiest character period but he's nto very fun to play since you just hit the toward key, spin your stick and do green hands and 720's all day long and then throw out your ultra.
I'd say go with Guile (spam sonic boom and then anti air when you need to) or Bison (has great buttons to just hit in the right situation)
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So 2 more playable characters in AE: Evil Ryu and Oni Akuma.
For those of you lazy to check SRK:
+ Show Spoiler +
I wanted to hear what people had to say about these 2 new characters. Unfortunately, the SRK threads are swarmed with complaints and arguments about imbalance, banning these characters from tournaments and what the definition of a shoto is (with a whole lot of trolls thrown in). I hope to see a higher quality discussion here on TL
Personally, I'm not a big fan of Evil Ryu's moveset looking a lot like a Ryu/Akuma hybrid. On the other hand, Oni is looking to be pretty sick. I especially love the addition of air dashes in his moveset instead of the air fireballs. Balance doesn't seem to be a major or unfixable issue so I wouldn't mind them being playable in tourneys so long as the majority of the population doesn't switch over to them.
Another issue I want to bring up is what people thought about the possibility of them selling another retail copy of the game. From SF4 to SSF4 the update was too big to be a DLC so they had an excuse to sell a new game under the same series. If it were just Yun and Yang, I could see Capcom charging a small fee for each as a DLC, but with more chars being introduced, I'm thinking it's probably gonna be a low price retail copy instead of a $5 DLC per character.
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Haven't seen much to say anything about it really =\ I do agree though that Evil Ryu looks lke generic hybrid character
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On January 24 2011 13:48 myrmidon2537 wrote:
Haven't seen much to say anything about it really =\ I do agree though that Evil Ryu looks lke generic hybrid character
+2537, same.  If I had hands-on time myself, I'd have more to say.
To be honest, SSF4 (especially AE) already has a good deal of usable characters already. I haven't seen them in person yet or followed all the vids, but nothing I've seen seems to indicate that Evil Ryu and Oni are too good to me. I really doubt they're as good or will be as popular as Yun at high-level play anyway.
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My school just got AE today and shit is hype as fuck. Anyone play Makoto in this version and got tips for me? I manage to make some hype coming back after almost being perfected. s.mp is the most godlike shit I have ever used. I was bodying one of the better rogs just abusing s.mp and c.mp while buffering hayate.
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On January 27 2011 11:10 Demoninja wrote:
My school just got AE today and shit is hype as fuck. Anyone play Makoto in this version and got tips for me? I manage to make some hype coming back after almost being perfected. s.mp is the most godlike shit I have ever used. I was bodying one of the better rogs just abusing s.mp and c.mp while buffering hayate.
I watched a video the other day where Flash Metroid (best Viper player in America) was talking about how he is going to play a sort of turtle Makoto. A guy on neogaf commented on how it might be done:
"Lots of good AA normals. She's a little like mini Dhalsim with her AAs. But what makes her AAs really good is when she hits one, she can forward dash into her oki game. From there she can dash under or stay on the same side, throw out meaties, karakusa, safe jumps, etc. Lots of options. Then there's fukiage, which juggles into like 350 damage for 1 bar when you end it with ex axe kick, or 300 damage for 1 bar + they get taken to the corner if you use ex hayate. That shit is gonna be the new Rufus j.hk ex snake strike. Even in console super it's pretty hard to jump at Makoto unless you're Vega or Bison or Dudley or someone that has a godlike air-to-ground normal.
U1 is really good for AA too because it's 6 frames, and if she hits you in the air she gets the whole thing.
She has lots of good ground-based normals too, but no footsies unfortunately since her walkspeed is slower than Sagat's. f+mk is an underused footsie tool though because you can throw it out when your opponent whiffs something, and it might not hit, but it'll get you inside and it's only like -1 on block.
But yeah, playing her turtly until she gets an opportunity to dash in and mix your shit up is definitely a legit way to play her."
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EPT
