EPTAnd that's a big shame that this gen is all about speed and hitting. I loved walls and pokemon like Bronzong.
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
And that's a big shame that this gen is all about speed and hitting. I loved walls and pokemon like Bronzong. | ||
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cosmicTrex
United States24 Posts
On March 25 2011 09:18 Kyuukyuu wrote: Jellicent, sort of... And Cofagrigus?! Don't know much about him. edit: afaik Soul Dew isn't becoming available Soul Dew is generally banned I believe. Jellicent and Cofagrigus are pretty bulky, but they have some limitations to their use. For example, Jellicent has some better resisances than Cofagrigus and can fill the role of spin blocker just as well. Cofagrigus also has a limited moveset, where as Jellicent has access to the immensely tank-friendly Scald. BUT he is a friggin' coffin, and as such, he can take some sizable hits once dark types and dark users are neutralized. On March 25 2011 09:18 Torte de Lini wrote: I just got this egg steel guy, he has decent stats from what I've encountered so far. And that's a big shame that this gen is all about speed and hitting. I loved walls and pokemon like Bronzong. If you're referring to Ferrothorn (or rather his pre-Evolution), he's actually one of the better defensive Pokemon in this Gen. He's pretty much like Forretress, except rather than having a top Def., he has top Sp.Def. and some better resistances. | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
It pretty much guarantees a kill when it comes in or it can setup on a wall like Blissey, CM up to +6, and proceed the sweeping and there isn't much you can do about it. Edit: Items aren't banned except for the evasion/accuracy ones iirc. I highly doubt that Soul Dew is forever lost to gen 5, that wouldn't make any sense at all. It'll come to gen V one way or another. | ||
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cosmicTrex
United States24 Posts
On March 25 2011 09:40 Jayme wrote: Shadow Tag Chandelure is really really scary. It pretty much guarantees a kill when it comes in or it can setup on a wall like Blissey, CM up to +6, and proceed the sweeping and there isn't much you can do about it. Edit: Items aren't banned except for the accessory ones. I highly doubt that Soul Dew is forever lost to gen 5, that wouldn't make any sense at all. It'll come to gen V one way or another. My bad, I might have been misinformed about Soul Dew ._. | ||
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KillerPlague
United States1386 Posts
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Mistapibb
United States78 Posts
Thanks | ||
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cosmicTrex
United States24 Posts
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
Speed Boost Blaziken. Speaks for itself. Run Swords Dance, Stone Edge, Flare Blitz, High JK, or possible mixed sets. Who the hell thought a SB Blaziken was a good idea. Would actually fix my weakness to fire Also Chlorophyll + Growth Venusaur. In the sun Growth gets +2 SpA/SpD instead of only 1. Venusaur is already bulky as hell and with access to +2/+2 with instant Solar Beam and other nonsense this thing would be insanity. Hell at this rate Sun might be banned like Drizzle + Swift Swim was, | ||
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cosmicTrex
United States24 Posts
On March 25 2011 09:49 Jayme wrote: So my Sun Team has two other insane candidates that I wasn't aware of. Speed Boost Blaziken. Speaks for itself. Run Swords Dance, Stone Edge, Flare Blitz, High JK, or possible mixed sets. Who the hell thought a SB Blaziken was a good idea. Would actually fix my weakness to fire Also Chlorophyll + Growth Venusaur. In the sun Growth gets +2 SpA/SpD instead of only 1. Venusaur is already bulky as hell and with access to +2/+2 with instant Solar Beam and other nonsense this thing would be insanity. Hell at this rate Sun might be banned like Drizzle + Swift Swim was, I don't quite get why Drizzle+SS is banned, but Sandstream+Sand Throw isn't, nor is Drought+Chlorophyll. | ||
infinitestory
United States4053 Posts
1) The weather. They tested a lv 1 kyogre / lv 1 groudon as possible OU in 4th gen, and they both turned up still uber. It's the permanent weather ability that should be banned, not the pokemon itself. 2) Shadow Tag Chandelure. Its speed sucks balls, so 99% of them will be choiced or Calm Mind. Choiced varieties are easy to get free setup turns on, and the Calm Mind varieties die to pretty much any super effective move. 3) Speed Boost Blaziken. It's only dangerous if you don't know what move it's going to use. Speed boost only gives +1 speed, so switching to a faster scarfed pokemon (I use Scarf Terrakion) gives you an easy KO. HJK is also a massive liability due to the prevalence of Jellicent (which walls blaziken pretty well) and Chandelure. 4) Walling. My team is actually very focused around walling; I force the opponent to switch and the majority of my kills are OHKOs based on advantageous switching. Uxie / Zapdos / Reuniclus / Zoroark / Chandelure / Terrakion. | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On March 25 2011 09:51 cosmicTrex wrote: I don't quite get why Drizzle+SS is banned, but Sandstream+Sand Throw isn't, nor is Drought+Chlorophyll. I don't agree with it either but what people said was that Drizzle + SS gave the "big 3" too much type coverage and power. The pokemon with Swift Speed were all far more powerful than the pokemon with Cholorphyll...Initially. Kingdra with swift speed in the ran is really really hard to deal with, as with Ludicolo and Kabutops. To make matters worse Politoed is actually a really good Pokemon and you can do a lot with him. Ninetails is a lot more fragile. Then people figured out that Growth is now +2/+2 in the sun and Blaziken gets speed boost. The introduction of the stupidity that is Volcarona + Quiver Dance increased that. Drought is probably as broken as Drizzle + SS is but people were retarded about it. I was of the mind that people should just wait a bit and see if we can find counter. Smogon was rather knee jerk though and laid down the ban hammer while making excuses for Drought and Sandstream. I honestly think this generation is the weather generation and we should work around that instead of just banning the good weather. Whatever though, I don't make the decisions. On March 25 2011 09:53 infinitestory wrote: Regarding: 1) The weather. They tested a lv 1 kyogre / lv 1 groudon as possible OU in 4th gen, and they both turned up still uber. It's the permanent weather ability that should be banned, not the pokemon itself. 2) Shadow Tag Chandelure. Its speed sucks balls, so 99% of them will be choiced or Calm Mind. Choiced varieties are easy to get free setup turns on, and the Calm Mind varieties die to pretty much any super effective move. 3) Speed Boost Blaziken. It's only dangerous if you don't know what move it's going to use. Speed boost only gives +1 speed, so switching to a faster scarfed pokemon (I use Scarf Terrakion) gives you an easy KO. HJK is also a massive liability due to the prevalence of Jellicent (which walls blaziken pretty well) and Chandelure. 4) Walling. My team is actually very focused around walling; I force the opponent to switch and the majority of my kills are OHKOs based on advantageous switching. Uxie / Zapdos / Reuniclus / Zoroark / Chandelure / Terrakion. 1) This is true but Gen 5 added a ton more weather and weather effects. The same test wouldn't be as viable honestly. The fact that Drizzle + SS is the only banned combo speaks volumes about this. 2) Speed shouldnt really matter because it's only going to trap something it can wall forever like Blissey. Calm Mind + Sub + Leftover variants are really difficult to counter if the person brings Chandelure on to something it can set up on. If played right Chandelure should always get 2 kills off, kills the wall with a Sub up and then kills the next pokemon that only manages to break the sub. Then it will die. Like before though it can be countered 3) Speed boost Blaziken is threatening because it has SO MANY options. You can run a mixed set and an SD set with a huge move pool. It also has the option of running HP Grass and such for many 2HKO's. You are correct though, it can be handled, but it can get out of control really quick. I more or less made my statements based on how effective the Pokemon can be. They can be really damn effective at what they are used for. | ||
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cosmicTrex
United States24 Posts
I feel like your point about the quality of the Swift Swim Pokemon might be on to something. Only Excadrill and Stoutland have Sand Throw and Grass Pokemon on average aren't nearly as bulky/strong as the water counterparts (though that Venusaur does sound formiable). | ||
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VoriuM
Belgium83 Posts
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infinitestory
United States4053 Posts
On March 25 2011 10:14 VoriuM wrote: Also about swift swim, rain dance boosts water atks by 50% too, while sandstorm and sunny day dont do that for the speedboosting types. Sunny Day does, and Sandstorm boosts Rock types' SpD by 50% | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On March 25 2011 10:14 VoriuM wrote: Also about swift swim, rain dance boosts water atks by 50% too, while sandstorm and sunny day dont do that for the speedboosting types. Sunny Day boosts fire, which is arguably just as bad if not worse because Fire Types are notorious for their very high SpA. Fire types also tend to be fast anyway. Sandstorm boosts any Pokemon with rock typing 50% SpD. Not as great for sure but it does give a boost. | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
Edit: Screw Shadow Tag Chandelure. It's the perfect counter/revenge kill to Skarmory  | ||
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genwar
Canada537 Posts
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Asshat
593 Posts
How many good users of Chlorophyll are out there, Venusaur? I can think of at least 4 excellent offensive swift swim abusers off the top of my head. Sandstorm is pretty good but it's not a weather effect of major impact outside of Sand Rush/Force. Which is limited to 2 pokemon for the most part. Hail is terrible because Ice pokemon are terrible, and it doesn't provide any bonuses outside of the damage to non ice, and a couple of abilities. | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
If it had a few sweepers... like say Froslass was more offensively inclined I'd play a hail team. | ||
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CanucksJC
Canada1241 Posts
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