EPTNf3 comes next amirite?
TL Chess Match 3 - Page 8
| Forum Index > General Games |
|
Arhkangel
Argentina769 Posts
Nf3 comes next amirite? | ||
|
citi.zen
2509 Posts
On February 08 2010 21:08 dozko wrote: Seriously people who are saying h4 is significantly better than Nf3 are just plain wrong. Statistically with h4, white wins 56% of his games, whereas Nf3 nets him 52% plus recent analysis by rybka gives Nf3 as slightly stronger. Those stats are derived from 20 000 games so it is quite pointless for amateurs/club players to argue one of these is decisively better than the other just because they read a book on C-K especially one which has "Basics" in the title and was written some years ago lol + Show Spoiler + Your win percentages are wrong/don't count draws. Personally would not have minded 6. f4, e6 or some slightly odder variation. As Incognito said, having played 6. h4, we can pretty much fast-forward to move 10. Qxd3, where black has a choice between e6, Ngf6 or Qc7. Sample games, if you care to browse: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?page=44&eco=B19&node=553257&eresult= PS: I know I am not voting, so if I am aggravating with the posts let me know and I'll watch silently! | ||
|
dozko
United Kingdom160 Posts
On February 08 2010 23:55 citi.zen wrote: + Show Spoiler + Your win percentages are wrong/don't count draws. Personally would not have minded 6. f4, e6 or some slightly odder variation. As Incognito said, having played 6. h4, we can pretty much fast-forward to move 10. Qxd3, where black has a choice between e6, Ngf6 or Qc7. Sample games, if you care to browse: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?page=44&eco=B19&node=553257&eresult= PS: I know I am not voting, so if I am aggravating with the posts let me know and I'll watch silently! + Show Spoiler + Im using the 3.5mil games statistic updated up to 31-12-09 that comes with aquarium; I consider these pretty trustworthy  | ||
|
Ikari
United States176 Posts
7.Nf3 Nd7 8.h5 Bh7 9.Bd3 Bxd3 10.Qxd3 Because I don't think we'll do anything different. Unless you deviate from this at some point of course. | ||
|
Incognito
United States2071 Posts
| ||
|
citi.zen
2509 Posts
On February 09 2010 00:29 dozko wrote: + Show Spoiler + Im using the 3.5mil games statistic updated up to 31-12-09 that comes with aquarium; I consider these pretty trustworthy + Show Spoiler + No popular opening can have a win percentage over 50%. Black would never play it if it were that bad! As I said before, this percentage excludes draws. | ||
|
Incognito
United States2071 Posts
On February 09 2010 01:43 citi.zen wrote: + Show Spoiler + No popular opening can have a win percentage over 50%. Black would never play it if it were that bad! As I said before, this percentage excludes draws. Maybe he is taking the white win % + (1/2)  raw percentage? | ||
|
jcu
Canada93 Posts
Then go + Show Spoiler + e6 bd3 bxd3 qxd3 nf6 nf3 bd6 bd2 nd7 0-0-0 etc. | ||
|
SOB_Maj_Brian
United States522 Posts
| ||
|
Arhkangel
Argentina769 Posts
On February 09 2010 02:22 jcu wrote: Let's play eff four as our seventh move. Then go + Show Spoiler + e6 bd3 bxd3 qxd3 nf6 nf3 bd6 bd2 nd7 0-0-0 etc. What? Is that playable? | ||
|
dhe95
United States1213 Posts
| ||
|
dozko
United Kingdom160 Posts
| ||
|
QuakerOats
United States1024 Posts
| ||
|
citi.zen
2509 Posts
On February 09 2010 05:47 QuakerOats wrote: Sorry, I'm not good at chess and just read this thread for fun, but I just have to comment on the above post... How does it make no sense to include draws? So if a certain opening is 99% draw, 1% white wins, you can say that it's 100% for white and 0% for black? If you take out the draws, your percentages are meaningless. It is important to know if a position is more draw-ish than another (10-80-10 vs. 35-30-35 for example). However, at this point this is an academic discussion which is just derailing the thread: dozoko's initial point was those two moves are fairly similar/playable, and we can all agree that's correct. Onwards and upwards. | ||
|
dozko
United Kingdom160 Posts
I have no intention to teach basic statistics. Given that there is such a large number of games even small imbalances are significant. Consider these examples: 1) 35% W, 35% B, 30% D - The expected value for white here is 0.500 2) 11% W, 10%B 79% D - Expected value here for is 0.505 Therefore it is easy to conclude that given the large amount of games played by players such small edges are much more important than the huge draw percentages. Therefore when dealing with large sample sizes they are meaningless. Again I apologize for the digression and am sorry if non maths inclined people still find reasons to disagree. Lets put this to rest. Anyway I agree with citizen, a quick update of the main line will be cool so we can get into the fun bit. | ||
|
jcu
Canada93 Posts
My bad. I meant to include h5 bh7 before bd3. And yeah, its playable. | ||
|
[NyC]HoBbes
United States803 Posts
| ||
|
Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
On February 09 2010 01:33 Incognito wrote: 7.Nf3 Nd7 8.h5 Bh7 9.Bd3 Bxd3 10.Qxd3 with a quick update unless you have any deviations. This is my vote as well, 7.Nf3 and above steps if you play those moves. | ||
|
Nosmo
Canada210 Posts
| ||
|
jfazz
Australia672 Posts
| ||
| ||
