This girl is broken too

You end up drawing the first discard of each round you play in the very last round
So if you always drop an assortment of wind tiles...

Hesmyrr

Canada5776 Posts

August 20 2014 00:45 GMT

#684

Pff, that's just a meta-gaming fail.

Hesmyrr

Canada5776 Posts

August 22 2014 14:50 GMT

#685

Does anyone know where I can learn about the tile efficiency? I always went with gut so far instead of doing actual calculation but such discards can only carry you so far. There seem to be very little resource which teaches some rules like "If X, do Y (except in special circumstances)".

For example, what would you discard if you drew this hand from the very beginning?
[image loading]

Shymon

United States620 Posts

August 22 2014 15:57 GMT

#686

As a pure tile eff. problem i would throw the 4 sou. you already have a pair and are 1 shanten, you have 16 tiles that make you tempai. that said i could see arguments for throwing a 9 sou and going for tanyao as well, but it is less efficient.

Benawii

United States51 Posts

August 22 2014 18:14 GMT

#687

The tile efficiency guides in the links spinesheath posted earlier do talk about some common situations. Tenhou has a discard efficiency calculator at http://tenhou.net/2/. Just keep in mind that it does not take into account other tiles you can see on the table and how other people discard (e.g., honors and terminals are more likely to be discarded than middle tiles). So you can use it as a starting point then use your own calculation/estimate to see what the best discard would be.

spinesheath

Germany8679 Posts

August 22 2014 19:20 GMT

#688

The problem with tile efficiency is that you typically only ever look 1 discard ahead. The seemingly best discard is the one that leaves you with the largest number of potential draws that advance your hand. But then you draw such a tile and are left with a very poor hand. Much like a chiitoitsu hand advances fast at the beginning but getting the last tile to tenpai is super slow and then you're stuck with a 3 tile wait at best. Ideally you would look many draws ahead, but I certainly am not very good at that either.

That particular hand though is super obvious if all you want is speed, there is no viable option other than discarding 4s. If you wanted more value you'd probably tackle the 9s and hope to draw 3m 7m. And if this was your starting hand, I'd say it's a good idea to aim for a higher value.

Hesmyrr

Canada5776 Posts

August 22 2014 22:57 GMT

#689

Thanks for all the helpful response! I brought up that hand because it represented a case where I strongly suspect my instinct fails; my immediate impulse is to discard the 2 man (!).

I can even pin-point the reason why I would want to do so in spite of there being an obvious choice. I usually make my hands in a way, you could call it a "rule" of mine, to avoid single waits if possible - I also read somewhere to avoid kanchan shape since it is inferior. For example, in the case where I have to discard something from 2446 shape, I prioritize 446 shape over 246 shape. The problem is that this instinct originated from the cursory knowledge from others, so I lack true understanding and struggle to see which case would be exceptions. In the example I presented, I am 1-shanten and also possess 344 sou - shape which I know 4 sou discard is superior - which encourage keeping the kanchan shape. I had several cases where my premature disposal of kanchan shape backfired, so posted above to re-evaluate my playing habit because why struggle over it alone when I can easily ask for opinion of others?

JSH

United States4109 Posts

August 22 2014 23:22 GMT

#690

The 246 shape is pretty good to keep
At first it might not look so,
but if you draw 2 3 4 5 6 AND 7, it'll be pretty useful
With 3 5 7 being more "useful" ones

And the single waits aren't that bad, you can always not riichi and wait for a draw to make it a double wait

Also, it's good to have a change of mindset
I always thought tiles as useless or good

But it's better to think: "how can this tile help me"

This I felt was one of the best change of mind I had in determining what to discard

Hesmyrr

Canada5776 Posts

August 23 2014 01:20 GMT

#691

The 246 shape is pretty good to keep
At first it might not look so,
but if you draw 2 3 4 5 6 AND 7, it'll be pretty useful
With 3 5 7 being more "useful" ones

Yeah, after you think about the matter what's not immediately obvious becomes noticeable. I guess that's why people make mistakes on heat of the moment though.

The way you put it is really illuminating as well. I found the observation from others tend to profoundly affect my game surprisingly often - I used to love nagashi mangan and sometimes attempted it when my hand was crap, but all it took was random comment from someone here that it's a missed kokushi musou and I never go for it anymore.

spinesheath

Germany8679 Posts

August 23 2014 07:54 GMT

#692

When you keep a kanchan shape, you should pay attention to your discards around that shape. Since you ideally want to upgrade it to a ryanmen shape, you have to make sure that you don't put yourself into furiten by doing so. If you discarded a 9 early in the game and end up with a 357 shape that you want to discard a tile from, discard the 7. Now you can still draw a 2 and be happy, otherwise you'd be stuck with 57.

Shymon

United States620 Posts

August 24 2014 16:02 GMT

#693

a series of articles translated about tile eff.

http://osamuko.com/tile-efficiency-101-part-1/

Hesmyrr

Canada5776 Posts

August 24 2014 16:43 GMT

#694

Finally managed to return to the upperdan lobby after my demotion about month ago.

I should fare well after having gotten over the difficult part. If you get 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th place respectively while attempting 3dan -> 4dan it yields net zero pts while doing so while attempting 4d -> 5d yields +15 pts. So the road to the latter is bound to be easier, right?

+ Show Spoiler +

*knock on wood*

Rhaegar99

Australia1190 Posts

August 25 2014 04:31 GMT

#695

Im a few losses away from 4 dan LOL. I think I picked up a huge leak in my game when I hit 6dan and got a bit overconfident. Im still having trouble finding whats wrong with my play. Im doing sooo bad.

JSH

United States4109 Posts

August 27 2014 10:10 GMT

#696

I like how he ONLY drops terminals and honors and reaches tenpai
And how I pick up his winning tile

Anyways gratz on 4dan Hesmyrr!

I'm trying to reach it too~
960 points

Rhaegar99

Australia1190 Posts

August 28 2014 16:02 GMT

#697

Feels good

[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler +

Hesmyrr

Canada5776 Posts

August 28 2014 16:15 GMT

#698

double post

Hesmyrr

Canada5776 Posts

August 28 2014 16:17 GMT

#699

Nice. I must admit I wouldn't have been able to resist the temptation even if I noted the lack of the dragons.

Edit: Okay, maybe not. Just realized the discards stink of honitsu.