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rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5464 Posts
May 28 2010 03:22 GMT
#4861
On May 28 2010 12:18 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2010 12:12 HeavOnEarth wrote:
you're not doing 500 damage a second. jax will just counterstrike+stun you.


30% miss, meaning jax is hitting with 70%. 70%x70%=49% reduction +30% means jax is doing 21% of his damage. Now if I wanted to hard counter jax even more I could drop a sunfire for thornmail. How fast can you burn through 4000 hp?

400 of that isn't dodgable, so I could always just not attack and see who wins.
holy fuck you might be the most delusional individual in this thread.
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
Rising_Phoenix
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States370 Posts
May 28 2010 03:26 GMT
#4862
I would love to play more but I need to upgrade my home internet before I can. Hopefully i'll be back on with you guys shortly.

Also at SnK-Arcbound: yeah you really need to work on your math.
Early to bed and early to rise, makes a man stupid and blind in the eyes
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-28 03:34:58
May 28 2010 03:27 GMT
#4863
On May 28 2010 12:22 redtooth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2010 12:18 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
On May 28 2010 12:12 HeavOnEarth wrote:
you're not doing 500 damage a second. jax will just counterstrike+stun you.


30% miss, meaning jax is hitting with 70%. 70%x70%=49% reduction +30% means jax is doing 21% of his damage. Now if I wanted to hard counter jax even more I could drop a sunfire for thornmail. How fast can you burn through 4000 hp?

400 of that isn't dodgable, so I could always just not attack and see who wins.
holy fuck you might be the most delusional individual in this thread.


We have two people saying sunfire shaco works on TT, with mathematical values, and 3 people saying no way you suck.

C'mon, show me the math. Would you like me to explain in simple terms why jax is only doing 21% damage?

On May 28 2010 12:26 Rising_Phoenix wrote:
I would love to play more but I need to upgrade my home internet before I can. Hopefully i'll be back on with you guys shortly.

Also at SnK-Arcbound: yeah you really need to work on your math.


Ok, I'll explain it to you.

30% miss means jax would only do 70% of his damage. Since you can't mitigate damage that doesn't hit, we multiple that .7(the stuff that hits)x.7(reduction) =.49. We add those together to arrive at 79% miss or damage reduction. Of jax's 100% we subtract miss and mitigation to arrive at 21%.
lepshis
Profile Joined January 2009
Lithuania62 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-28 05:29:13
May 28 2010 04:13 GMT
#4864
I'm up for the tourney.
lepshis - gragas, mundo, pantheon
rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5464 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-28 04:27:32
May 28 2010 04:20 GMT
#4865
[image loading]


Sunfire Shaco Build
6 [capes] x 40 [damage per second] = 240 [damage per second]
2 [shacos] x 240 [damage] = 480 [damage per second]
Total Cost: 15060 Gold

Super Viable AD DPS Annie
Last Whisper + Infinity Edge + Black Cleaver + Madreds Bloodrazor + Bloodthirster
Total DPS = 641.245 [damage per second]
Total Cost: 16110 Gold

480 < 641.245

my AD annie rapes the shit out of your shaco.
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-28 04:41:16
May 28 2010 04:35 GMT
#4866
On May 28 2010 13:20 redtooth wrote:
[image loading]


Sunfire Shaco Build
6 [capes] x 40 [damage per second] = 240 [damage per second]
2 [shacos] x 240 [damage] = 480 [damage per second]
Total Cost: 15060 Gold

Super Viable AD DPS Annie
Last Whisper + Infinity Edge + Black Cleaver + Madreds Bloodrazor + Bloodthirster
Total DPS = 641.245 [damage per second]
Total Cost: 16110 Gold

480 < 641.245

my AD annie rapes the shit out of your shaco.

And that isn't jax. So you just showed that jax doesn't counter shaco, want a cookie?

You also ignore damage reduction, come back and try again.

641.245x.21=134.66145
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
May 28 2010 04:37 GMT
#4867
On May 28 2010 12:27 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
30% miss means jax would only do 70% of his damage. Since you can't mitigate damage that doesn't hit, we multiple that .7(the stuff that hits)x.7(reduction) =.49. We add those together to arrive at 79% miss or damage reduction. Of jax's 100% we subtract miss and mitigation to arrive at 21%.

What the hell? Where does the 21% come from?

.7 (hit chance) x .7 (30% reduction) = .49 ... period. You can't count the miss chance twice lol.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5464 Posts
May 28 2010 04:41 GMT
#4868
On May 28 2010 13:35 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2010 13:20 redtooth wrote:
[image loading]


Sunfire Shaco Build
6 [capes] x 40 [damage per second] = 240 [damage per second]
2 [shacos] x 240 [damage] = 480 [damage per second]
Total Cost: 15060 Gold

Super Viable AD DPS Annie
Last Whisper + Infinity Edge + Black Cleaver + Madreds Bloodrazor + Bloodthirster
Total DPS = 641.245 [damage per second]
Total Cost: 16110 Gold

480 < 641.245

my AD annie rapes the shit out of your shaco.

And that isn't jax. So you just showed that jax doesn't counter shaco, want a cookie?

You also ignore damage reduction, come back and try again.
who the fuck cares about jax? this is AD ANNIE we're talking about here. stop trying to dodge the subject.

my madreds is gonna rape the shit out of youre HP stacking, no mRes shaco. last whisper+armorPen runes are gonna fucking cut your armor in half. then i'm going to shield myself so your sunfires don't do shit and throw a fucking bear at you. YOU dEAD bOI!!!! YOU DEAD.
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
May 28 2010 04:42 GMT
#4869
On May 28 2010 13:37 crate wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2010 12:27 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
30% miss means jax would only do 70% of his damage. Since you can't mitigate damage that doesn't hit, we multiple that .7(the stuff that hits)x.7(reduction) =.49. We add those together to arrive at 79% miss or damage reduction. Of jax's 100% we subtract miss and mitigation to arrive at 21%.

What the hell? Where does the 21% come from?

.7 (hit chance) x .7 (30% reduction) = .49 ... period. You can't count the miss chance twice lol.

Then ignoring the miss .7 x 1 =.7 reduction, meaning jax does 30% of his damage. So I guess missing attacks ADDS to your dps. Learn how to multiply.
rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5464 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-28 04:49:30
May 28 2010 04:47 GMT
#4870
you're right. my build was flawed. i remade it. it has SotD now so your dodge aint got shit.

added runes and masteries too. new stat is 685.318 damage per second. that's before accounting for the extra SotD damage (essentially +25 magic damage) + the SHITTON of damage madreds is going to do against an HP stacker.

i'll have 40% armor penetration + 35.37 flat (from items + masteries + runes) + 30 (SotD active) + 60 (from Cleaver stacks). that's 40% + 125.37 armor penetration, almost nullifying most of your armor. btw armor doesn't effect Madreds and SotD damage. and lets not forget tibbers.

AD ANNIE > sunfire shaco
[image loading]
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-28 04:52:32
May 28 2010 04:49 GMT
#4871
On May 28 2010 13:41 redtooth wrote:
my madreds is gonna rape the shit out of youre HP stacking, no mRes shaco. last whisper+armorPen runes are gonna fucking cut your armor in half. then i'm going to shield myself so your sunfires don't do shit and throw a fucking bear at you. YOU dEAD bOI!!!! YOU DEAD.


0 magic reduction? I have 107 if my math is correct. You need to learn how to read.

On May 28 2010 13:47 redtooth wrote:
you're right. my build was flawed. i remade it. it has SotD now so your dodge aint got shit.

added runes and masteries too. new stat is 685.318 damage per second. that's before accounting for the extra SotD damage (essentially +25 magic damage) + the SHITTON of damage madreds is going to do against an HP stacker.

i'll have 40% armor penetration + 35.37 flat (from items + masteries + runes) + 30 (SotD active) + 60 (from Cleaver stacks). that's 40% + 125.37 armor penetration, almost nullifying most of your armor. btw armor doesn't effect Madreds and SotD damage. and lets not forget tibbers.

AD ANNIE > sunfire shaco
Show nested quote +
[image loading]


30% miss means 479.7226. How much HP does annie have? Think she can survive 10 seconds?
rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5464 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-28 04:58:54
May 28 2010 04:51 GMT
#4872
On May 28 2010 13:49 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2010 13:41 redtooth wrote:
my madreds is gonna rape the shit out of youre HP stacking, no mRes shaco. last whisper+armorPen runes are gonna fucking cut your armor in half. then i'm going to shield myself so your sunfires don't do shit and throw a fucking bear at you. YOU dEAD bOI!!!! YOU DEAD.


0 magic reduction? I have 107 if my math is correct. You need to learn how to read.
you need to learn when you're argument is retarded

edit: also, you really shouldn't be arguing retarded shit when you show a clear misunderstanding for what SotD does in the above post.
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
radmax86
Profile Joined September 2004
United States437 Posts
May 28 2010 04:52 GMT
#4873
I mean your screenshot pretty much proves you were playing idiots. hurrdurrr, we are getting owned by sunfire capes, lets continue to not add any MR or HP, hurrrdurrrr

http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Jax/cbcdbe124239f8e2b0059bc4e785a993
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
May 28 2010 04:53 GMT
#4874
On May 28 2010 13:51 redtooth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2010 13:49 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
On May 28 2010 13:41 redtooth wrote:
my madreds is gonna rape the shit out of youre HP stacking, no mRes shaco. last whisper+armorPen runes are gonna fucking cut your armor in half. then i'm going to shield myself so your sunfires don't do shit and throw a fucking bear at you. YOU dEAD bOI!!!! YOU DEAD.


0 magic reduction? I have 107 if my math is correct. You need to learn how to read.
you need to learn when you're argument is retarded

Annie dies in 3 seconds, she can't even live long enough to kill me.
rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5464 Posts
May 28 2010 04:55 GMT
#4875
On May 28 2010 13:53 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2010 13:51 redtooth wrote:
On May 28 2010 13:49 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
On May 28 2010 13:41 redtooth wrote:
my madreds is gonna rape the shit out of youre HP stacking, no mRes shaco. last whisper+armorPen runes are gonna fucking cut your armor in half. then i'm going to shield myself so your sunfires don't do shit and throw a fucking bear at you. YOU dEAD bOI!!!! YOU DEAD.


0 magic reduction? I have 107 if my math is correct. You need to learn how to read.
you need to learn when you're argument is retarded

Annie dies in 3 seconds, she can't even live long enough to kill me.
i'm quoting you so that you can reflect on your actions tomorrow.
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-28 04:57:58
May 28 2010 04:57 GMT
#4876
On May 28 2010 13:55 redtooth wrote:
i'm quoting you so that you can reflect on your actions tomorrow.


Two people saying sunfire shaco is good. Three people who can't add or multiply saying he's bad. I think we know who wins.
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-28 04:59:41
May 28 2010 04:58 GMT
#4877
On May 28 2010 13:42 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2010 13:37 crate wrote:
On May 28 2010 12:27 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
30% miss means jax would only do 70% of his damage. Since you can't mitigate damage that doesn't hit, we multiple that .7(the stuff that hits)x.7(reduction) =.49. We add those together to arrive at 79% miss or damage reduction. Of jax's 100% we subtract miss and mitigation to arrive at 21%.

What the hell? Where does the 21% come from?

.7 (hit chance) x .7 (30% reduction) = .49 ... period. You can't count the miss chance twice lol.

Then ignoring the miss .7 x 1 =.7 reduction, meaning jax does 30% of his damage. So I guess missing attacks ADDS to your dps. Learn how to multiply.

It's 51% reduction in my post, sorry I didn't clarify. 49% damage.

I still have no idea where you could possibly get 21% from.

edit: By the way I've played like 10 games of LoL so I'm certainly not saying anything other than that you have bad math. I have no idea about sunfire Shaco.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5464 Posts
May 28 2010 04:59 GMT
#4878
On May 28 2010 13:57 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2010 13:55 redtooth wrote:
i'm quoting you so that you can reflect on your actions tomorrow.


Two people saying sunfire shaco is good. Three people who can't add or multiply saying he's bad. I think we know who wins.
oh gawd. this has to be quoted too.
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
mrgerry
Profile Joined September 2008
United States1508 Posts
May 28 2010 05:00 GMT
#4879
Wow haven't been in here for awhile wtf happened lol
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-28 05:07:27
May 28 2010 05:04 GMT
#4880
On May 28 2010 13:58 crate wrote:
It's 51% reduction in my post, sorry I didn't clarify. 49% damage.

I still have no idea where you could possibly get 21% from.


70% of hits attack hits. This means shaco already has 30% mitigation.

Since damage mitigation only works against attacks that hit, we multiply what hits by the reduction. .7x.7=.49 of ALL of his damage. No you add the 30% of all of his damage, plus the 49% to get your 79% total mitigation.

Doing it the OTHER way, 70% mitigation vs 100% of his damage means jax is doing 30% of his damage (1-.7=.3). We then take the 30% (again, damage he is doing, just like in the previous) and multiply it by 30% to arrive at 9%, added to the 70 again brings us to 79% mitigation.

What are doing by using this method is ignoring overlap. If they were additive shaco would have 100% mitigation, which obviously isn't true. You multiply this way to ignore the overlap (misses can't be mitigation by 70%, and are instead mitigated at a 100% value). You can't have 70% straight damage mitigation and then arrive at a number lower than 70%.

edit: I'll even add it a third way, because you are going backwards in a step when multiplying. You get the .7x.7=.49, but then you are subracting that from the original 100%, which doesn't exist anymore. You need to subract the .49 from the .7 to arrive at your final number. You should realize that if shaco dodges 30% of jaxs attacks, that 70% mitigation can't only be worth 19% mitigation.
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