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RoosterSamurai
Japan2108 Posts
On May 11 2010 22:41 fspikec wrote: Big patch, new champion, new skins, balance changes, etc.... info is here http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=110070 Yeah, I found that a few minutes ago lol. Too bad it's down though....I'm at work, and I wanted to play it until I got off at 4. | ||
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On May 11 2010 17:22 NeoIllusions wrote: Meh, have a game where you have someone DT777 or Dyrus playing ricing Singed being unchecked for all of midgame then tell me that no one cares about a farmed Singed. But I digress, since a lot of this is still theorycraft. Point is that a smart Singed isn't going to farm when it's detrimental to his team. Dragon and runes are down, that's probably the best time for Singed to solo push. I'm top, I tell my team to def bot. If your team chooses not to engage and go mid instead, Singed with Insanity Potion can solo a tower by himself pretty fast. If you play the waiting game, it's 5 champs not getting much exp vs 4 of my team. Run mid to push down that tower, 4 from bot push to trade towers there. Singed in that situation is still pushing his team ahead. dt777 feeds everytime I see his singed =/ anyways I still agree with neo, you havent seen a good singed if you push a tower and he doesnt take a tower himself. singed dropped towers in seconds. my usual build is RoA, Haunting Guise, Sorc/treads, Spirit visage, Rylai's, Zhonya's. | ||
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Alchemyst
United States36 Posts
I personally go RoA, Treads [Pretty much always, unless they got no CC], Guise, then Rylais. I'll probably get a Frozen Heart if they've got a lot of Phys Damage, or Abyssal if they got more casters, priority depending on how the game is going. And if I'm having a really good game, Rush Two RoAs. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
As much as I don't really like Cho Gath, I might have to start playing him... om nom nom nom. | ||
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
Seriously, are you guys just trolling now? You guys are making it sound like Singed is some unholy devil who comes in and wins games by being there. Just like Master Yi and Tryndamere. I'm not saying Singed is anywhere near as bad as those two but he's essentially the same way, just with actually a useful set of CC skills and the ability to gtfo. So he's decent, and he's a decent damage soak, but it doesn't change the fact that he requires heavy amounts of farm to do his thing, and isn't that useful in a teamfight until he's ungodly farmed. It's a good thing such heroes rule the game, like Jax, and Singed, and such. Oh wait, I usually don't lose to those heroes. I wonder why. Maybe it's because I push them down and gimp the rest of their team while countering them with mobility so they don't, in the long run, matter that much! My point is that his vaunted mobility is seriously outclassed by several other heroes, and there are ways of trading towers etc. that gimp the team that Singed is on. FOR INSTANCE, for the 4th time in the past two pages. If you threaten a 4-man push on mid tower (leaving one to counter the Singed, preferably a teleport hero or someone with teleport), and they gather up 4 to counter, you can simply slide into the jungle, and clear through it as you make your way to the unchecked tower. Then you can further split up your team to send 2 to push down the unchecked tower and 2 to defend, etc. Now the 4-man "defense" is staring at a 2-man defense and looking at role-reversal - they're now 4-man offense. But usually the 4-man offense does not WANT to go on offense, because they would rather disperse ('tis why they're being reactionary to team pushes in the first place, and still trying to send one guy out to farm). Again this is all assuming the reactionary 4 group just wants to stand there at mid tower. Usually this doesn't happen, because the 4 group begins to disperse. Catching one of those in the jungle en route to one lane is an easy gank, which is even better than forcing a teamfight (because now you're looking at a 4v3 or a 5v4, and provided your team compo doesn't suck you'll always take down a tower). Or the 4 will attempt to push against the 2-3 defense that was left behind, which goes all the way back to your first argument that pushing against 4 is stupid. Or the 4 will, as insinuated, counter top tower by helping the Singed's 1v1. Except then you're stacking 5 in one lane and not really letting Singed farm no more. Or the four will enter their jungle, risking an ambush and concede to teamfighting 4v4 (or 5v4 if you have a teleporter). Or, if your team compo is better and/or you had a better start (particularly more likely because Singed is a terrible laner) you'll just browbeat them 5v4 or force a 5v5 because they need their tank there to survive. Lots of things can happen. It's all time efficiency. By forcing bad mobility (reactionary mobility generally means you have less composure to farm on the way up, so moving to mid, then from mid is a lot of time and gold lost for the ones being forced to move) you're gimping heroes, and forcing heroes to bunch up more than they need to is also essentially winning a teamfight. It's basic DotA economy. Same thing as a failed gank being a massive net loss because the gankers are losing out on large amounts of money and experience. Or say you threaten mid, but then just slide over into golem-side jungle, forcing Singed to lose a lot of time running from top (even dying) or forcing a teamfight (or a tower trade), or counterganking the 4 that come from mid by way of superior positioning. It's impossible you guys have never encountered/done this stuff yourself. You guys are too good to have been playing zombie games. Singed is fine, but there're very obvious ways of countering farm heroes. I cannot and will not believe that you guys see Singed and go "aww shux we're gonna lose cuz he's gonna rice one lane all day and we're not gonna do anything about it aww boo." Edit: If I'm sounding aggressive it's because I'm incredulous you two are making it sound like Singed is unstoppable. The only unstoppable Singed I've seen are stupidly fed ones or the one that had Spirit Visage and three damn healers next to him. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
but yea, when we play arranged team games, we rarely seem to get bitten by really powerful farmed heroes. | ||
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
On May 12 2010 00:48 Mogwai wrote: well, in solo queues, where you have poor team coordination, that sort of situation has frequently led to a fed singed pushing my shit in. Ah... Ah... Touche :| I r spoiled. Anyways, doesn't change my point about that being a very blunt way of countering farm heroes :p I guess whether you can pull it off properly with pubbies or not is a different question. Edit: Incidentally I'm glad we won that last game; if we lost because of my stupid decision to push after the Ashe kill I would have just weeped in a corner. Haven't flubbed a call that badly in a long time I think  | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
I think I played that entire game way too safe btw. I got nice and farmed up, but a farmed Nidalee isn't as useful as a Nidalee who exploits her power during the midgame in ganks... I think. I mean, basically, I only used her absurd chasing once to catch that Ezreal and demolish him 1v1 at top tower and that was already like 25 minutes into the game. I guess I was just afraid of roaming with the amount of pressure they were putting on mid. bleh, I need better Nidalee sense. | ||
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hasuprotoss
United States4612 Posts
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oberon
United States1320 Posts
Edit: it's pretty tiny. She seems like a burst-oriented squishy melee, which makes no sense. You *must* run cleanse, and even then you may not even get an attack off. The spotlight shows her doing well, but it's on TT where she can surprise people, and Phreak barely escapes a number of times. Maybe if her ult's cooldown is really low? I dunno, not impressed so far. | ||
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
Ashe hooked! Kill! We took no damage! No more slow! Push push push! Fuck! Karth! Fuck! Shit! Ahhhhhhhhhhh. I don't even know how we lost, I guess I vastly overestimated how important Ashe was to them :/ As I mentioned to Taka later I thought we could crush them with their DPS (and AoE slow) down, but alas... it was not to be. Gangplank's ult crushed us like 5 times that game too it was really annoying. Thank god for TF, though :p Also found it amusing how their dominating player (Karth) made the game-turning mistake (dying and letting us Baron). I was almost in his shoes there | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
And for the record, I use Teleport/Ghost. 9/0/21. Catalyst, Boots, FoN, Merc Treads, RoA, Banshee/Randuin, Void Staff/Lich Bane, GA. | ||
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
But yeah, it may just be that I premade a lot. So, uhhh, I dunno how you would deal with him with less coordination. Edit: Related point, ironically enough, we played a game last night where four of our team was like a semi-carry or a hardcarry (Udyr Blitz Nid TF) and the other team had Shen Ez Karth Ashe, our strategy literally was "wait until level 17-18 to fight." When one team brings down the thunder for a teamfight it's really hard to not do it ;/ Edit2: A lot of my reactions are also based on the fact that I'm used to playing with Baikin's Blitz, so I'm pretty comfortable moving around and forcing them to make bad decisions - one bad decision by one player and it's a quick hook -> kill -> push. So yeah. But still! >_> | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
The hook on Karthus was almost disastrous though. We're all sitting there with <200 hp and he hooks Karth on all of us LOL. I was like AW SHIT bear stance zoom! | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
did anyone die from that or was the Karth too slow on Defile? | ||
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
The most fascinating part of the game to me, after the fact, is wondering what would have happened if Chibi had, instead of celebrating a 200th win by playing TF, played Soraka instead, because that would have led to a domino-reaction of me playing Malphite instead of Udyr. We would have had even less map control and less dragon control, but we may not have lost bottom tower and we would have had a nasty mass stun. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
Would've been a completely different game. | ||
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
Blitz TF Nid Morgana Udyr -> Blitz Soraka Ez Morgana Malph Whaaaaaaaaaat. My biggest concern with the second team would be the lack of ranged physical damage. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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