EPTI wonder if tank Fiddlestick with randuin's could work.
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
I wonder if tank Fiddlestick with randuin's could work. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
On April 28 2010 18:06 suffeli wrote: Imho. There is definately laning in high elo games, but it stops mostly and its less consistent when mid solo hits 6. After that its about grouping up, tower diving and snatching dragon. At least if you watch AON vs Eski Grand tourney finals matches. This. I wasn't saying there was absolutely zero laning, but I can tell most TLers assume they can lane for longer than they actually can. Sivir farming Starks and Aegis before teamfight lulz. More like finishing Aegis and then teamfighting amirite. ^-- also why Chalice is highly unrecommended. If you open Chalice on Sivir your first teamfight will usually look like a Sivir with Chalice and a Ruby Crystal. Oooh, scary. Incidentally I heard the majority of streamers aren't that good. I also remember playing alongside a fairly known solomid streamer and he sucked ASS. Pushing speed also varies greatly depending on the matchups, obviously. A heal team pushes pretty damn quickly - not always 5v5 but that's because they don't need to, and thus the irritating decision for the other team, who must decide whether to stall in small skirmishes or bring it to a 5v5, as most teams are built for 5v5, yet in 5v5 they're also less likely to beat a heal team. Laning tends to last maybe to the 10 minutes on average on the whole map at the level I play (one lane is almost always stuck laning, and usually because the other team stubbornly refuses to NOT lane, which is really fine by me because it means they suck, and I'd rather not unnecessarily lose a tower to some idiots), and I'm fairly certain that gets shorter and shorter as you go up in level, because that's when "losing" teams say f it I'm not laning against this anymore, while "winning" teams either kill a tower or turn their "winning" advantage into ganks before their advantage wears off (usually in the form of early-game heroes, like Zilean). The best players are the ones that bring out map control as early as they can. I once lost to a Zilean who at level 4-5 began roaming and ganking top and mid lanes, absolutely wrecking our team in the process. By the time he was level 11 he had 20 SS stacks. Our response should have been to force at least a 3v3 teamfight, to disable the ganks. We didn't, and we lost, sucks to be us. And you can generally tell if some players aren't going to be very smart if they're constantly trying to lane. Heroes that can gank will generally gank as soon as possible. This is what caught Mogwai off-guard in our first game, when a Rammus ganked mid at level 3. The majority of laning I see after about 7-8 minutes in is defensive/reactive and/or a set-up for pushes. Like "they have two guys at top, send at least one top and crush them at mid; if we can't, disperse and farm up, okay they're moving so move one top and bottom, push back, then gather up and crush mid" sort of laning. Considering it takes about 2 minutes for the game to actually start, that means there's around 5 minutes before small-scale teamfights erupt (usually 3v3), causing a lot of movement, and a short while after that the # of people participating in the teamfights gradually goes up toward 5. People still farming at that point are either a carry in some way or other (level 16 Blitzcrank when everyone else level 11) or suck. Usually, almost always, they just flat-out suck. If there's jungling the speed of "laning" goes down even more, as people begin roaming to counter ganks and exert map control - the first team to lose map control generally loses the game. Some factors extend laning; double jungle causes two lanes to feel comfortable playing solo and removes one hero from the roaming pool, as both junglers tend to ward the river and play some map control parrying. A 2v1 lane usually causes some bizarre teamfights to break out, as the 2v1 lane should really not be content 2v1ing, unless neither of them can gank (bad team comp) and it's a 5v4 as opposed to 5v4+jungle. That sort of stuff. On April 28 2010 23:34 Juicyfruit wrote: Its not just that. Randuin`s omen is also too good to pass up for any tank character, imo. Tanks generally have difficulties farming so getting heard of gold is pretty obvious, and then you build randuin from there. No, Randuin is terrible. Absolutely terrible. I can think of maybe one hero that can get it (Amumu) because he's the only one that dumps money into a HoG, and even then I wouldn't recommend wasting another 1500 gold on a freakin' Warden's Mail. Spend your 1500 gold on Giant's Belt and Ruby Crystal if you have to. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On April 28 2010 23:34 Juicyfruit wrote: Its not just that. Randuin`s omen is also too good to pass up for any tank character, imo. Tanks generally have difficulties farming so getting heard of gold is pretty obvious, and then you build randuin from there. I wonder if tank Fiddlestick with randuin's could work. nope. omen might be OK, but it's really really far from "too good to pass up" status. HoG isn't seen much, if at all, in higher level play and Warden's Mail is also... well, rare... to say the least :p. When you take 2 items that are sorta meh already, combine them, and attach an active ability that's somewhat forgettable to a big price tag, the end result isn't something that's going to be frequently making it's way into people's builds. The biggest issue to me is that in it's price range, you could get sunfire cape instead for health + armor, and sunfire's effect just strikes me as much more relevant than all the bells and whistles attached to omen. The only way I think Omen works it's way into a build is if HoG already exists in the build, and I pretty much only see that item on like, Rammus and Amumu (and Brees's Nasus build, which I actually really like). So will it see some play? Probably. Will it be a must on anyone? Nope. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
Rammus can get maxed near-max cooldown with runes and randuin, and then spam taunt in teamfights because it lasts 3 seconds and the cooldown is only 5.5 seconds. The cooldown on your bubble is also reduced to 10 seconds, and it lasts freaking 6 seconds. It's pretty annoying actually. Also, with randuin, you can actually NOT max powerball first and still gank like the best of them. Powerball in, activate +150 armor and mdef, randuin slow, ult, taunt... blah blah blah, they run, you taunt again because it`s got like 1.5 seconds of downtime. They die unless they`re jax. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
Rammus has enough farming problems as it is (he should be ganking early, which screws up his gold intake), and he has a few base stat issues (low mana regen, low base HP). Randuin becomes a luxury item when compared to health, mana regen, and GA (which is usually considered a core item on him), that when you consider its cost and its relatively crappy returns (in comparison to other similar-cost items) it'll only see play on Rammus at low-level play where you can actually farm more than 6k gold on Rammus lol. As said, some Amumu and Brees' Nasus build both get HoG as a core item, but I don't know if either of them care enough to pay 1500 for a snare. 1500 is a lot, you're comparing Warden's Mail + a crappy snare against like 500 hp, or like 50 armor and 80 magic resist. If you really wanna lower DPS via attack speed you'd be playing Malphite, anyways. On him it is slightly tempting but is still a luxury pick. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
On April 29 2010 00:20 Brees wrote: lolol at that new ghostblade item. I see like 5 of them a game, I dont bother with it. ive seen ranged carries abusing it though. A corki had it and he was just raping face It's great on heroes that already had Brutalizer as a core item, IMO. I'm thinking Ashe, Pantheon, and now maybe Garen (-armor is nice for his spin). Other heroes switching to it usually don't make it worth it. I played with a goddamn Jax that went for it yesterday. Way to use your passive, mate! Blitzcrank might go ghostblade. Other than that I'm not sure there're too many heroes that "suddenly became viable" over that one item. And many heroes will try to fit it into their arsenal and find it's just not as effective as a standard power item (GB < BT for Trist, for instance). Corki would rock with it cuz it synergizes with Gatling :p Kinda lets you circumvent Last Whisper and get a stronger item instead, which is fabulous. Edit: Now that I think about it, though, GB + EC is a pretty decent (~5k?) combo for anti-heal. You get a significant amount of crit% and -armor, so you're not too gimped on damage, while putting the crit% from EC to good use. Still expensive as a whole, they need to lower EC's cost. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On April 29 2010 00:20 Brees wrote: lolol at that new ghostblade item. I see like 5 of them a game, I dont bother with it. ive seen ranged carries abusing it though. A corki had it and he was just raping face yea, it's a good item, but way too many people are shitting themselves over it and thinking everyone needs to rush it as opposed to it mostly just being the answer to "I got brutalizer, but that's not good enough late game, WUT DOES I DO!!!!!?????" | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On April 29 2010 00:26 Southlight wrote: Now that I think about it, though, GB + EC is a pretty decent (~5k?) combo for anti-heal. You get a significant amount of crit% and -armor, so you're not too gimped on damage, while putting the crit% from EC to good use. Still expensive as a whole, they need to lower EC's cost. GB + EC is like 4.5K. I guess it's an OK anti-heal, but by that point, our heals are buffed by our AP and SVs, so I really doubt they'll actually be doing much, lol. EDIT: and also BaikinTurkey will just punt them away when they activate blade, lawl! | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
We just need Chibi to snipe them with Infuse and carry us 6-0-12 while restoring 54k hp wtf. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
 ), cause forcing only one of us to get a solo severely gimped me that game, especially with our GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAREEEEEN sucking. That's the only reason that game felt even remotely uncomfortable IMO. | ||
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
And hey! I can Warwick too, just... no one... else... has Nidalee (´・ω・`) Also it's about time someone stole jungling from me >_o Sigh, I seriously hope they nerf healing next week. Edit: Hah, we steamrolled last night having gotten pissed and running 5 healers. I feel like the patch did nothing except make Taric no longer a requirement. Whatevar. You can tell I didn't like the patch much, except to nerf Taric in half. | ||
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
I think the Turkey WW, Baikin Sora, Passion Ali, You Nid, and me Ez setup is what we should aim for because we're the usual 5 that are on and that team was fucking destroying people LOL. Chibi's Sora was really good though, I wish he'd play it more than his TF =X. EDIT: HA, see? Brees agrees with me! :p | ||
suffeli
Finland772 Posts
On April 28 2010 23:21 Mogwai wrote: I will not be getting Ghostblade first on TF and he's an autoattack hero. It really doesn't destroy all the diversity in item builds. There are a whole buttload of heroes who have sheen as a mandatory 1st item, yet no one's complaining about that and it's largely because what you do after sheen is very diverse. And honestly, I'm not sure which characters you're talking about needing to get ghostblade first. Trynd and Yi are the only 2 that I really think would have no other viable options. Who else do you think has to get Youmuu's? Dunno. Ghost Blade is just too good to pass by: With 2687 you get: +30 Attack Damage +15% Critical Chance UNIQUE Passive: +20 Armor Penetration 15% Cooldown Reduction Unique Active: You gain +20% movespeed and +50% attack speed for 4 seconds. Attacking enemy units with melee attacks increases the duration by 2 to a maximum of 8 seconds. 60 second cooldown. The best part that it has a mini ghost built in it: use to escape or chase. With TF it isnt probably a core item, but it would still work well with him. Nid, Trynd, Pirate, Ashe, Garen, Panth, Corki... Well anyway it is viable on most physical heroes. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
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