EPTLeague of Legends - Page 159
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
I usually get tier 2 boots and then stark or shroud next, depending on what my team is like. | ||
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bellweather
United States404 Posts
On April 22 2010 15:50 Juicyfruit wrote: Is visage on Taric a good first item to get? It just makes too much sense on him to get anything else. With it, I am basically healing 40% of my HP before level 10, which is pretty insane. Everything else about it is great too. I usually get tier 2 boots and then stark or shroud next, depending on what my team is like. Where the aegis at? | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
What Visage does is basically let you stay in lane and pretty much shrug off any attempt to harass you, even two on 1. The cooldown reduction helps a LOT as well, since I`m auto-attacking nonstop so my heal can be used every 3 seconds - made even faster by the visage. Plant down a ward and you`re pretty much harass-proof and gank proof for a while. I realize that I am not helping my teammates much during the beginning phase, but on the other hand, the people I`m laning against can`t leave their lanes to gank either because if they leave, my teammate teleports over and their tower gets taken down before they can do anything. However, I lack experience with LoL so I would like an opinion whether visage is a viable first item against better players. | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i44.tinypic.com/sfxely.png) random pubs ftw playin on my friends acc | ||
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nataziel
Australia1455 Posts
http://www.lolbase.net/matches/view/US14440753 | ||
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Malderon
Netherlands136 Posts
http://www.lolbase.net/matches/view/US15014466 | ||
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Ota Solgryn
Denmark2011 Posts
One question for you guys. I cannot make out what I should get for yellow runes for him. Many say dodge or health, but as blitz has manashield is mana/lvl not viable also? | ||
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
Oh my god, all these gold/5 items haha | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On April 22 2010 18:21 Juicyfruit wrote: Aegis becomes progressively less useful as the game goes on. Visage does not. I just skip aegis altogether since it`s not that good anymore. It`s not USELESS, but it`s not worth the 2k that could be used to rush a Stark instead - imo a MUCH better aura than Aegis, for yourself and for everyone else. What Visage does is basically let you stay in lane and pretty much shrug off any attempt to harass you, even two on 1. The cooldown reduction helps a LOT as well, since I`m auto-attacking nonstop so my heal can be used every 3 seconds - made even faster by the visage. Plant down a ward and you`re pretty much harass-proof and gank proof for a while. I realize that I am not helping my teammates much during the beginning phase, but on the other hand, the people I`m laning against can`t leave their lanes to gank either because if they leave, my teammate teleports over and their tower gets taken down before they can do anything. However, I lack experience with LoL so I would like an opinion whether visage is a viable first item against better players. viable, yea, sure, as you said, it's pretty good on him. He appreciates the magic resist and the CD reduction, and the healing buff is also obviously good on him. However, you're underestimating Aegis, by a lot. Stark's scales well with your teammates already being beefy, as two of the big parts of it's aura are % based (lifesteal and attack speed). This means that it is great late game, no question. However, early, before your teammates are all that farmed, Aegis's flat and boring buffs will frequently have a bigger impact, and it's a solid 600-700 gold cheaper. These buffs are also a bigger deal on casters and the like who don't really care about physical damage enough to build into AD at all (armor and magic resist buffs are very helpful). Aegis also helps you fill a tanky role more (pretty good armor[30] + magic resist[39] + health[270]). To be perfectly honest, I build Aegis on Pantheon sometimes after my BF Sword, before my Bloodthirster, because it's such an efficient mid-level defensive item in that it gives you a respectable buff to all 3 key defensive stats, which is something you simply can't get from any one other item. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On April 22 2010 20:25 Ota Solgryn wrote: Lol.. Yesterday I had 3 games in a row with no deaths. For me thats amazing. I play blitzcrank (and own with him). One question for you guys. I cannot make out what I should get for yellow runes for him. Many say dodge or health, but as blitz has manashield is mana/lvl not viable also? More like mp5/lvl. The regen on that helps your grabs and keeps your mana high for your shield. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
On April 22 2010 15:23 Mogwai wrote: OK, well, I just played solo mid Pantheon vs. Sivir. At 10 minutes, I was 3-1 with 42 creep kills, she was 0-3 with 27 creep kills. My death was a Kat with good anticipation picking me off after I FBed Sivir before creeps spawned. She looks completely and utterly helpless, I almost felt bad about raping her so hard, but then again I figured she probably should've just switched after the FB with Kat, so it's kinda her own fault for not realizing how fucking terrible the Sivir vs. ______ matchup is mid. So your evidence for Sivir being a bad hero is playing vs an epically retarded one who dies vs a melee hero before the creeps even spawn?? Somehow I'm not quite convinced... I mean, you could be 100% right about the hero, but that's really not a strong argument you're making. Every hero looks utterly helpless in the hands of a noob. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
Kinda like how Kat mid is a hard counter to Sivir | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
But anyway, it really wasn't even that she was that bad as a player. Not the best Sivir I've played against by a long shot, but her early decision to fight me made a non-zero amount of sense because she had rally and was close enough to killing me that when Kat appeared, I just got Shunpoed once and died. She probably was also aware of the Kat coming and was trying to keep me in the open until Kat arrived (which worked sorta, but she underestimated how much pantheon can do with just spear shot). After that I didn't really feel like she made too many mistakes aside from trying to put herself in exp range rather than just tower hugging. But if she had never gotten in range of my burst, she would've just gotten starved out of the game entirely because I wasn't pushing at all and I was very aggressive about keeping myself behind her range creeps to push her out of exp range. She even made the pretty good decision to hard push mid very early (level 6) because of how starved she was getting, but because her build basically looked like just meki and boots at that point vs. me a level and a half ahead with brutalizer + boots, we were able to hold the 5 man push long enough with 3 champs to have the other 2 push down both side lanes before they took mid, at which point we just grouped up and quickly pushed back their mid. So again, her only real choice in the situation was to switch lanes at the start, but stubbornness got the best of her I guess. Can a good Sivir overcome this? I dunno, maybe, but I'm not seeing them any more and I'm not able to even comprehend what she could possibly do vs. the current batch of good solomids other than shielding Anvia's spikes. Seems to me that she probably needs to go doran's sheild with defensive masteries and HP quints + dodge seals just to have any sort of lasting power mid and even then, I'm not convinced that she won't be spending every other creep wave out of exp range vs. even just a TF prancing around with SD procced. EDIT: @ZERG_RUSSIAN sure, but please name for me Sivir's good mid matchups now. I'll agree it's a hard counter, but I don't see anything as even or better for her aside from Anivia right now. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
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Chrispy
Canada5878 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On April 23 2010 02:46 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Honestly I don't think many mids have great matchups vs any other non-counterpick mid champion. TF vs Tristana? Pretty up in the air. Annie vs Ashe? Same. It's not like one champion mid absolutely dominates another to the point where they're not viable. It's the counterpick champs that make the difference. That's why I love taking mid as Cho, and it's why Panth is a good mid champ sometimes. They have good matchups vs standard mid characters. Most mid characters have a counterpick champion that just dominates them 1v1, and Sivir just happens to get raped by Pantheon. Tristana beats up on TF pretty hard. Annie beats up on Ashe pretty hard. All of those champions are squishy, so the one with better burst gets to dictate mid. Of course they can blow it, and they aren't abusive to the point where the character on the losing side gets starved, but neither of those matchups are really up in the air exactly. Again, it just comes back to this question: What matchups mid, when played correctly, allow Sivir to keep up with her opponent now? Thus far, Anivia is the only answer I've heard, and I agree with it, but really what this is boiling down to is that the 5 most common mid characters (that I see at least) right now are: Trist TF Ezreal Annie Nidalee And I see them all as being able to gold starve Sivir (at least to the point where they are ahead of her in their builds) if not also exp starve her. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On April 23 2010 02:46 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: You don't have to be all aggressive about it either, I'm just saying that it's not fair to call her a worthless champion based on a counterpick matchup in the mid. I don't think she's completely worthless, but I think she's lost her viability mid, which has Sivirly (har har) hurt her viability on the whole, as explained by Southlight's post last page. My argument doesn't hinge on just me beating a Sivir mid with Pantheon last night, I was just providing an example of her impotence mid. On April 23 2010 03:02 Chrispy wrote: Well yeah especially if he killed her three times by 40 creep slain. And it's not like Pantheon's a huge deal in mid. That's just sad on her part and he was probably a noob sivir. Pantheon is an abusive counterpick to many mid heroes. Between Spear Shot harassment, his Shield procs, and his full 3 skill combo with ignite bursting for massive amounts, he's a huge problem for squishy ranged DPS champions and some mages. You just don't see many Pantheons go mid because they are unaware of how to build and play as a counter mid. | ||
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