• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 22:04
CET 04:04
KST 12:04
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Dark completes military service, returns to SC25[BSL23] RO16 Group Stage17Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?2Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175
StarCraft 2
General
Dark completes military service, returns to SC2 Greetings.. No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Serral's getting trashed by New Catsle's Mind Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) soO & FanTaSy return! SC2 Kevin Scrim 4v4 (Nov 16) RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Starcraft 2 Advance [G] How to playtest arcade maps [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion List of top players active on ShieldBattery Starcraft:Brood War Discord Servers Recommended BW Settings for Mouse and Video [BSL23] RO16 Group Stage
Tourneys
[BSL23] Ro16 Group C - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL23] Ro16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Pluto's TvP 5Marine 2Medic Push Infested Terran strategies in 2026 Nuke strategy worked in K-League 2026-11-09 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread List of Game Threads The PlayStation 5 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Can Game Data Analytics Help Players Improvements
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The time I organised my…
AssyrianKing
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10907 users

League of Legends - Page 159

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 157 158 159 160 161 281 Next
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
April 22 2010 06:23 GMT
#3161
OK, well, I just played solo mid Pantheon vs. Sivir. At 10 minutes, I was 3-1 with 42 creep kills, she was 0-3 with 27 creep kills. My death was a Kat with good anticipation picking me off after I FBed Sivir before creeps spawned. She looks completely and utterly helpless, I almost felt bad about raping her so hard, but then again I figured she probably should've just switched after the FB with Kat, so it's kinda her own fault for not realizing how fucking terrible the Sivir vs. ______ matchup is mid.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Juicyfruit
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada5484 Posts
April 22 2010 06:50 GMT
#3162
Is visage on Taric a good first item to get? It just makes too much sense on him to get anything else. With it, I am basically healing 40% of my HP before level 10, which is pretty insane. Everything else about it is great too.

I usually get tier 2 boots and then stark or shroud next, depending on what my team is like.
bellweather
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States404 Posts
April 22 2010 09:03 GMT
#3163
On April 22 2010 15:50 Juicyfruit wrote:
Is visage on Taric a good first item to get? It just makes too much sense on him to get anything else. With it, I am basically healing 40% of my HP before level 10, which is pretty insane. Everything else about it is great too.

I usually get tier 2 boots and then stark or shroud next, depending on what my team is like.


Where the aegis at?
A mathematician is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat which isnt' there. -Charles Darwin
Juicyfruit
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada5484 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-22 09:34:46
April 22 2010 09:21 GMT
#3164
Aegis becomes progressively less useful as the game goes on. Visage does not. I just skip aegis altogether since it`s not that good anymore. It`s not USELESS, but it`s not worth the 2k that could be used to rush a Stark instead - imo a MUCH better aura than Aegis, for yourself and for everyone else.

What Visage does is basically let you stay in lane and pretty much shrug off any attempt to harass you, even two on 1. The cooldown reduction helps a LOT as well, since I`m auto-attacking nonstop so my heal can be used every 3 seconds - made even faster by the visage. Plant down a ward and you`re pretty much harass-proof and gank proof for a while. I realize that I am not helping my teammates much during the beginning phase, but on the other hand, the people I`m laning against can`t leave their lanes to gank either because if they leave, my teammate teleports over and their tower gets taken down before they can do anything.

However, I lack experience with LoL so I would like an opinion whether visage is a viable first item against better players.
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-22 09:51:12
April 22 2010 09:50 GMT
#3165
[image loading]
random pubs ftw
playin on my friends acc
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
nataziel
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Australia1455 Posts
April 22 2010 10:18 GMT
#3166
lol, try this:

http://www.lolbase.net/matches/view/US14440753
u gotta sk8
Malderon
Profile Joined September 2009
Netherlands136 Posts
April 22 2010 10:43 GMT
#3167
It's a bad sign when the tank has the best K/D ratio:

http://www.lolbase.net/matches/view/US15014466
Ota Solgryn
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Denmark2011 Posts
April 22 2010 11:25 GMT
#3168
Lol.. Yesterday I had 3 games in a row with no deaths. For me thats amazing. I play blitzcrank (and own with him).

One question for you guys. I cannot make out what I should get for yellow runes for him. Many say dodge or health, but as blitz has manashield is mana/lvl not viable also?
ihasaKAROT: "Wish people would stop wasting their lives on finding flaws in others"
Kaniol
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Poland5551 Posts
April 22 2010 12:08 GMT
#3169
On April 22 2010 18:50 HeavOnEarth wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

random pubs ftw
playin on my friends acc

Oh my god, all these gold/5 items haha
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-22 14:22:48
April 22 2010 13:46 GMT
#3170
On April 22 2010 18:21 Juicyfruit wrote:
Aegis becomes progressively less useful as the game goes on. Visage does not. I just skip aegis altogether since it`s not that good anymore. It`s not USELESS, but it`s not worth the 2k that could be used to rush a Stark instead - imo a MUCH better aura than Aegis, for yourself and for everyone else.

What Visage does is basically let you stay in lane and pretty much shrug off any attempt to harass you, even two on 1. The cooldown reduction helps a LOT as well, since I`m auto-attacking nonstop so my heal can be used every 3 seconds - made even faster by the visage. Plant down a ward and you`re pretty much harass-proof and gank proof for a while. I realize that I am not helping my teammates much during the beginning phase, but on the other hand, the people I`m laning against can`t leave their lanes to gank either because if they leave, my teammate teleports over and their tower gets taken down before they can do anything.

However, I lack experience with LoL so I would like an opinion whether visage is a viable first item against better players.

viable, yea, sure, as you said, it's pretty good on him. He appreciates the magic resist and the CD reduction, and the healing buff is also obviously good on him.

However, you're underestimating Aegis, by a lot. Stark's scales well with your teammates already being beefy, as two of the big parts of it's aura are % based (lifesteal and attack speed). This means that it is great late game, no question. However, early, before your teammates are all that farmed, Aegis's flat and boring buffs will frequently have a bigger impact, and it's a solid 600-700 gold cheaper. These buffs are also a bigger deal on casters and the like who don't really care about physical damage enough to build into AD at all (armor and magic resist buffs are very helpful). Aegis also helps you fill a tanky role more (pretty good armor[30] + magic resist[39] + health[270]).

To be perfectly honest, I build Aegis on Pantheon sometimes after my BF Sword, before my Bloodthirster, because it's such an efficient mid-level defensive item in that it gives you a respectable buff to all 3 key defensive stats, which is something you simply can't get from any one other item.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
April 22 2010 14:20 GMT
#3171
On April 22 2010 20:25 Ota Solgryn wrote:
Lol.. Yesterday I had 3 games in a row with no deaths. For me thats amazing. I play blitzcrank (and own with him).

One question for you guys. I cannot make out what I should get for yellow runes for him. Many say dodge or health, but as blitz has manashield is mana/lvl not viable also?

More like mp5/lvl. The regen on that helps your grabs and keeps your mana high for your shield.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
April 22 2010 15:40 GMT
#3172
new Shen numbers look more reasonable. It still seems really good to me (still maybe too good), but the duration going down to 1.5 at least alleviates my worry that Shen would just get golem buff and mash W throughout teamfights to become invincible.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
StorkHwaiting
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3465 Posts
April 22 2010 16:23 GMT
#3173
On April 22 2010 15:23 Mogwai wrote:
OK, well, I just played solo mid Pantheon vs. Sivir. At 10 minutes, I was 3-1 with 42 creep kills, she was 0-3 with 27 creep kills. My death was a Kat with good anticipation picking me off after I FBed Sivir before creeps spawned. She looks completely and utterly helpless, I almost felt bad about raping her so hard, but then again I figured she probably should've just switched after the FB with Kat, so it's kinda her own fault for not realizing how fucking terrible the Sivir vs. ______ matchup is mid.


So your evidence for Sivir being a bad hero is playing vs an epically retarded one who dies vs a melee hero before the creeps even spawn?? Somehow I'm not quite convinced... I mean, you could be 100% right about the hero, but that's really not a strong argument you're making. Every hero looks utterly helpless in the hands of a noob.
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
April 22 2010 16:36 GMT
#3174
Pantheon mid is a hard counter to Sivir btw

Kinda like how Kat mid is a hard counter to Sivir
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-22 16:58:03
April 22 2010 16:52 GMT
#3175
...which is even part of the point I put it like that. Most of what people are saying here in defense of Sivir is "... well I just played a game where I dominated with Sivir."

But anyway, it really wasn't even that she was that bad as a player. Not the best Sivir I've played against by a long shot, but her early decision to fight me made a non-zero amount of sense because she had rally and was close enough to killing me that when Kat appeared, I just got Shunpoed once and died. She probably was also aware of the Kat coming and was trying to keep me in the open until Kat arrived (which worked sorta, but she underestimated how much pantheon can do with just spear shot). After that I didn't really feel like she made too many mistakes aside from trying to put herself in exp range rather than just tower hugging. But if she had never gotten in range of my burst, she would've just gotten starved out of the game entirely because I wasn't pushing at all and I was very aggressive about keeping myself behind her range creeps to push her out of exp range. She even made the pretty good decision to hard push mid very early (level 6) because of how starved she was getting, but because her build basically looked like just meki and boots at that point vs. me a level and a half ahead with brutalizer + boots, we were able to hold the 5 man push long enough with 3 champs to have the other 2 push down both side lanes before they took mid, at which point we just grouped up and quickly pushed back their mid. So again, her only real choice in the situation was to switch lanes at the start, but stubbornness got the best of her I guess.

Can a good Sivir overcome this? I dunno, maybe, but I'm not seeing them any more and I'm not able to even comprehend what she could possibly do vs. the current batch of good solomids other than shielding Anvia's spikes. Seems to me that she probably needs to go doran's sheild with defensive masteries and HP quints + dodge seals just to have any sort of lasting power mid and even then, I'm not convinced that she won't be spending every other creep wave out of exp range vs. even just a TF prancing around with SD procced.

EDIT: @ZERG_RUSSIAN sure, but please name for me Sivir's good mid matchups now. I'll agree it's a hard counter, but I don't see anything as even or better for her aside from Anivia right now.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
April 22 2010 17:46 GMT
#3176
Honestly I don't think many mids have great matchups vs any other non-counterpick mid champion. TF vs Tristana? Pretty up in the air. Annie vs Ashe? Same. It's not like one champion mid absolutely dominates another to the point where they're not viable. It's the counterpick champs that make the difference. That's why I love taking mid as Cho, and it's why Panth is a good mid champ sometimes. They have good matchups vs standard mid characters. Most mid characters have a counterpick champion that just dominates them 1v1, and Sivir just happens to get raped by Pantheon.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
April 22 2010 17:46 GMT
#3177
You don't have to be all aggressive about it either, I'm just saying that it's not fair to call her a worthless champion based on a counterpick matchup in the mid.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
Chrispy
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada5878 Posts
April 22 2010 18:02 GMT
#3178
Well yeah especially if he killed her three times by 40 creep slain. And it's not like Pantheon's a huge deal in mid. That's just sad on her part and he was probably a noob sivir.
Retvrn to Forvms
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
April 22 2010 18:05 GMT
#3179
On April 23 2010 02:46 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Honestly I don't think many mids have great matchups vs any other non-counterpick mid champion. TF vs Tristana? Pretty up in the air. Annie vs Ashe? Same. It's not like one champion mid absolutely dominates another to the point where they're not viable. It's the counterpick champs that make the difference. That's why I love taking mid as Cho, and it's why Panth is a good mid champ sometimes. They have good matchups vs standard mid characters. Most mid characters have a counterpick champion that just dominates them 1v1, and Sivir just happens to get raped by Pantheon.

Tristana beats up on TF pretty hard. Annie beats up on Ashe pretty hard. All of those champions are squishy, so the one with better burst gets to dictate mid. Of course they can blow it, and they aren't abusive to the point where the character on the losing side gets starved, but neither of those matchups are really up in the air exactly. Again, it just comes back to this question:

What matchups mid, when played correctly, allow Sivir to keep up with her opponent now?

Thus far, Anivia is the only answer I've heard, and I agree with it, but really what this is boiling down to is that the 5 most common mid characters (that I see at least) right now are:

Trist
TF
Ezreal
Annie
Nidalee

And I see them all as being able to gold starve Sivir (at least to the point where they are ahead of her in their builds) if not also exp starve her.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
April 22 2010 18:17 GMT
#3180
On April 23 2010 02:46 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
You don't have to be all aggressive about it either, I'm just saying that it's not fair to call her a worthless champion based on a counterpick matchup in the mid.


I don't think she's completely worthless, but I think she's lost her viability mid, which has Sivirly (har har) hurt her viability on the whole, as explained by Southlight's post last page. My argument doesn't hinge on just me beating a Sivir mid with Pantheon last night, I was just providing an example of her impotence mid.

On April 23 2010 03:02 Chrispy wrote:
Well yeah especially if he killed her three times by 40 creep slain. And it's not like Pantheon's a huge deal in mid. That's just sad on her part and he was probably a noob sivir.


Pantheon is an abusive counterpick to many mid heroes. Between Spear Shot harassment, his Shield procs, and his full 3 skill combo with ignite bursting for massive amounts, he's a huge problem for squishy ranged DPS champions and some mages. You just don't see many Pantheons go mid because they are unaware of how to build and play as a counter mid.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Prev 1 157 158 159 160 161 281 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
08:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #21
ArT vs MindelVK
MiniZergUA vs TBD
Shameless vs TBD
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 182
ProTech116
EnDerr 16
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 1910
Artosis 601
Barracks 109
Force[name] 4
League of Legends
JimRising 643
Counter-Strike
taco 586
Other Games
summit1g8369
PiGStarcraft323
C9.Mang0205
NeuroSwarm94
ViBE50
Mew2King36
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta38
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki14
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
Ultimate Battle
8h 56m
OSC
10h 56m
OSC
20h 26m
ByuN vs MaxPax
herO vs Krystianer
Percival vs Shameless
LetaleX vs YoungYakov
Nicoract vs Gerald
GgMaChine vs ArT
CranKy Ducklings
1d 6h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 8h
ByuN vs SHIN
MaxPax vs Solar
Clem vs TBD
herO vs TBD
Lambo vs TBD
Rogue vs TBD
IPSL
1d 13h
TerrOr vs IJ_Terran
rasowy vs Hazorath
BSL
1d 16h
TerrOr vs OyAji
UltrA vs Gosudark
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
IPSL
2 days
Art_Of_Turtle vs KameZerg
Radley vs George
[ Show More ]
BSL
2 days
Artosis vs Dewalt
Ret vs Tech
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
GSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-12
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
Individual League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

YSL S4
Sector 591
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
StarCraft2 Weekly Open Tournament 2026 Grand Finals
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.