EPTedit- just raped with gragas again, 8-2. got a ton of lane kills again, so underestimated lol
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
edit- just raped with gragas again, 8-2. got a ton of lane kills again, so underestimated lol | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On April 22 2010 03:42 Mogwai wrote: nothing like the straight AS Tristana build... hey, I have an ability that handles all my attack speed issues for me... I KNOW, I'LL GET MOAR ATTACK SPEED! As a Trist player recently I can say that this isn't necessarily bad... usually I do it after bloodrazors/wit's end but with malady it basically turns your auto-attack into teemo. Also, Q is a percentage increase, so it helps a lot *sometimes*. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
Thing is, with pugging I end up being the only tanky character there is, and even though Mundo is best as DPS (atleast I heard that?) I had moderate success rushing for Warmogs (opening with regrowth) and then adapting to whatever it is. I take Rally and Flash for runes (even though Mundo doesnt benefit from Rally's AP bonus it heals for more than heal I think and it does provide extra damage). I know you guys haven't mentiokne rally alot but it has been a lifesaver both aggressively and defensively (it's uber for tower diving early and defending a tower early game). But let's sum this up, anyone have a good DPS build besides stacking that +move + speed + crit item which I cant remember name of? I'd imagine something with Frozen Mallet but other than that I'm clueless | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Flakes
United States3125 Posts
and props for going rally, it's like giving your team baron buff for a single fight, but most teams I solo-queue still never get one. I pick rally every game, only exception is if two other people have it (never happens). | ||
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xLethargicax
United States469 Posts
On April 22 2010 04:56 Brees wrote: you guys might be playing with bads because sivir + taric is still a guaranteed win on any competent team edit- just raped with gragas again, 8-2. got a ton of lane kills again, so underestimated lol Gragas is actually the LEAST used hero in the entire game. | ||
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rredtooth
5459 Posts
On April 22 2010 04:16 Southlight wrote: that's what i'm saying! a"good sivir" is the single best support hero in the game, moreso then a "good soraka" or a "good taric" (at least in the late midgame). the sivir i played with let me take mid (as nidalee) and laned without leveing W much (meaning no gold starving) but just harassed with BB and last hit like any other hero. when she was able to stop dying whenever others would just stare at her, we left her to solo farm for a short while while she got the ~5000 gold needed to "finish" her build.I've not played against a single Sivir that "controlled a game" because I always push right at them anyways. If a Sivir wants to solo-push a lane while we take down their inhibitor so be it. And her ult is nice but Sivir itself isn't going to accomplish much, so... is like 4.5 vs 5. I think she's pretty bad. and you're really underestimating the support aspect of sivir. she gets those auras out so fast and forces a team fight or gets an inhib under 15 minutes. and that first team fight is so early that the auras make such a difference. it was amazing how easily we won it. the other teams carry wasn't farmed enough but couldn't go split push unless he wanted to lose the inhib. btw just in case you still don't understand the godliness of the auras. here's what each member (so x5 to each) of our team had when sivir was 11 (starks+aegis+rally+R) and we forced a teamfight (the parenthesis is a comparison to other forms of achieving this stat): 25% movespeed 20 armor reduc 20% lifesteal 42.5% attack speed 38hp/sec regen +12 armor +15 magic res +33 dmg chuck norris minions (who ARE effected by aegis+R) here's what they had: merc treads sheen a dying tower and the sivir actually is a factor in the fight. of course her biggest strength is the aura and the teamfight but she's still outputting a constant stream of damage with BB and ricochet, definitely more damage then the average soraka or taric or janna especially at that point. if you look earlier in the thread i was one of the harshest critics of Sivir (sucks solomid, sucks laning) but by not leveling her W early this good sivir solved those problems and turned the game around. can't remember having a faster victory and the other team wasn't that bad either. edit: i think aura sivir is a pretty all-in strategy. she either gets an inhib by 25 or loses lategame when she becomes absolutely useless. but its just sooo hard to stop her from getting that inhib. | ||
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
It used to be that a great Sivir was the single-best support hero in the game... because she could dominate mid-lane, which made it so her gold-hogging was not a detriment to the team, and because her damage output was vicious regardless of what item build she went, thanks to bounces. It also put pressure on the other team because a Sivir mid push was pretty rough on a significant number of normal solo-mid heroes, and then her ability to run around and push down a lane would keep pressure going. Now, she is not able to go mid lane. That means in order to farm up nearly as fast as before, she has to starve her teammate, and somehow manage to last hit almost every creep despite two enemies hell-bent on harassing her. If you do NOT want to screw your teammate, at best you'll farm half as fast, usually much slower because you're not going to be able to last-hit almost every creep as you would in middle. Especially with slower leveling. As a result, at moment in time ~level 11 where a pre-nerf Sivir would have Catalyst and half of Aegis and about 100 creep stats, now a Sivir will be level ~7-8 with about 40-50 creep stats and an Aegis. Assuming you have a proper tank that can farm, that tank will have Aegis instead, and that means Sivir's prolly got like, the vampiric Emblem and something else. I'm being nice here and ignoring her glaring lack of lane power and the fact that to do this sort of farming she'd prolly have screwed her teammate over. Now when you enter combat you've got Aegis and a boomerang. Many times, the other team will also have an Aegis. They don't even have to hit you. You don't DO anything. You ult, which is great except the strength of teamfights at this level lie in nukes and AoE and disables, not your Tristana outputting 300 damage at 25% more attack speed. So you move faster. So you gave your Annie movement speed (great!) and attack speed (superb! oh wait). The strength of Sivir before was that she could push even faster. Hit level 8 or 9, gather your level 5-6 teammates, and push! And the other team would be hard pressed to defeat a pre-ult hard push, and you can keep doing this to keep the pressure on. Couple her level dominance, her gold dominance, her damage output, her boomerang, and her ult, and this made her by far the most potent support hero. Now, she's completely overshadowed by, for instance, Taric who comes with a ranged stun and a big nuke that gives up to -35 armor to enemies in an AoE, and heals. This makes him ridiculous in conjunction with any stun hero, particularly as he can open mana manipulator and still hang on in lanes. Then in a team fight, Taric can turn on his ult and insta-give everyone ~20% attack damage. He also initiates, farms quickly because of Shatter, can solo push and get away with it a lot of times (because his ult is crazy), and can feed like hell and still contribute to the team for a win because he's just that OP. Soraka also has much stronger laning presence, particularly when paired with a mana-spammer, because you can't push her out of a lane without tremendous burst power, which is difficult to conjure up when she heals someone and then silences half your burst. By the time team combat starts, your team is already weakened because they had to lane against her, and then her appearance in combat with Aegis and Locket/Shroud continues to tilt the game against you. It's all different from Sivir who'll screw over her teammate in both gold and lane presence. Edit: I mean you say they seemed okay, but they probably weren't. Either they really sucked, or they had a really stupid lane setup against her. It happens. Sometimes my friends and I steaaaaaamroll teams because they have a retarded team build, probably fostered by solo queues and clumps of friends doing different things. For instance, if I'm Taric with Blitz, and the lane opposite me has fuckin Sivir, it's like Christmas. Not only will the Sivir by default screw over her teammate by pushing the lane (great for us) and starving them BOTH out with the boomerang, but if we go after her teammate, we don't have to worry about her. And after a few minutes of pressuring both of them as heroes, we get crazy map control because they end up being so underleveled and underfarmed that one of us can go roam and gank and the other can hold 1v2 and extend level/gold advantage. It's really bad. Edit2: She's obviously not THAT bad, I just have a tendency to spew out poison like no other. But I do consider her "pretty bad," bad enough that she'll wreck team chemistry quite often. Any support hero that needs babysitting in laning phase by another support hero is not a good support hero in my book. | ||
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
W is the first thing you max on sivir, what the fuck? no wonder you guys are doing awful with her. Aura build is outdated with her new range, you play her as a carry with her god-ult. Starks at the most. my new build for her(dont knock it till you try it) Warmogs Bf sword --> Bloodthirster Ninja tabi Frozen mallet makes her unnukable and almost DPS proof. especially after next patch when starks/aegis get nerfed yet again. rally/flash or exhaust/flash as spells btw. | ||
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oberon
United States1320 Posts
On April 21 2010 11:03 Gokey wrote: Soner and I were talking about forming a super duper uber TL team, with a good team composition setup. Since I can't play 5 characters at once, I am opening up other positions for qualified players. No, don't laugh. Why u laughing. Anyway, would like maybe another 1-2 DPS/magic nuker, a mobile DPS (Nidalee or TF), an Alistar, and/or a Blitzcrank. Would definitely need ventrilo access. I have Vent. My mains are Fiddle and Sivir. I'm suspecting that, signing up for this, I'd be playing Fiddle, though I'm not sure which version (I have four builds: lane, gank, jungle and offtank/support). | ||
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oberon
United States1320 Posts
On April 22 2010 07:58 Brees wrote: Ok now I think you guys are trolling. W is the first thing you max on sivir, what the fuck? no wonder you guys are doing awful with her. Aura build is outdated with her new range, you play her as a carry with her god-ult. Starks at the most. my new build for her(dont knock it till you try it) Warmogs Bf sword --> Bloodthirster Ninja tabi Frozen mallet makes her unnukable and almost DPS proof. especially after next patch when starks/aegis get nerfed yet again. rally/flash or exhaust/flash as spells btw. I'll have to try this build. I assume you run MR/5 runes to avoid chalice? Also, people saying Sivir is awful are just completely insane. Your Sivir is maxing W? She's throwing boomerangs at LANE MINIONS? It's like saying "God, Corki is so awful -- every time I see one he's actually some drunk who stole a laptop with LoL on it." -- maxing W and throwing a boomerang through lane minions (without scoring at least 2, if not more, champion hits) is the equivalent of drinking and not knowing the controls on Sivir. I bet the Sivirs you see also don't use boomerang to jungle from lane, don't solo dragon, etc. etc. Rant off, but seriously... | ||
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Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
On April 22 2010 04:51 Mogwai wrote: yea, at least in 5 man premades, I don't see Sivir accomplish much of anything these days. I dunno, it might just be that there are less of them now, but I do think that the range nerf was the nail in her coffin. In other news, I'm desperately trying to convince people of how stupid Shen's new Feint is in this thread: https://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=97189&page=5 I think I'm succeeding in arguing down people who don't know what the implications of this buff are, but I also don't get the impression that Riot has their eye on this at all, and it's really starting to worry me. The Sivirchange didn´t really weaken her when played correctly but it punishes "bads" quite harshly. By that I mean Players that relied on her absolute lanedominance when both participants aren´t all that good. Shens changes are relativly minor this patch, at least compared to the other character reworks. The new Feint definetly functions as intended, as in a "reflex" burstprotection even if the numbers are too high. If it´s really that bad get into a Riotgame on PTR Friday and crush them. | ||
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rredtooth
5459 Posts
On April 21 2010 11:03 Gokey wrote: oh gozey. you so funny.Soner and I were talking about forming a super duper uber TL team, with a good team composition setup. Since I can't play 5 characters at once, I am opening up other positions for qualified players. No, don't laugh. Why u laughing. Anyway, would like maybe another 1-2 DPS/magic nuker, a mobile DPS (Nidalee or TF), an Alistar, and/or a Blitzcrank. Would definitely need ventrilo access. imagine 5 gozeys, all 0-2-30, missing arrows left and right. | ||
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
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bellweather
United States404 Posts
On April 22 2010 10:18 redtooth wrote: oh gozey. you so funny. imagine 5 gozeys, all 0-2-30, missing arrows left and right. Hey if one of the gozeys has 30 assists, one of them has to be getting kills right?! =P | ||
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On April 22 2010 10:18 redtooth wrote: oh gozey. you so funny. imagine 5 gozeys, all 0-2-30, missing arrows left and right. ZING | ||
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
On April 22 2010 12:51 Mogwai wrote: her basic attack range is now 400. who were you matched against mid? Oh, that's it? -__- Just hit the melee creeps instead of going for the archer ones. Sure, she'll have trouble vs Karthus and a few others, but she still plays just like normal. That's nowhere near as big a nerf as Southlight's dramatization o_0. I thought it was something crazy like bounce/shuriken damage had been reduced dramatically or something. I can't remember what I played against. Ranged heroes for sure. But it's all lost in a blur of LoL, HoN, and SC2. I just don't remember ever feeling like Sivir had been nerfed at all. I rarely level bounce over shuriken. Only against heavy harass heroes did I ever do that. | ||
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