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NBA 09-10: The Roundball Rock - Page 83

Forum Index > General Games
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igotmyown
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4291 Posts
February 20 2010 08:35 GMT
#1641
Think about how you would count offensive possessions, and compare to the numbers I came up with, and it should make sense.

Stats may not tell the whole story, but just listing points is even worse.
city42
Profile Joined October 2007
1656 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-20 09:30:27
February 20 2010 09:27 GMT
#1642
On February 20 2010 17:18 igotmyown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 20 2010 13:27 city42 wrote:
On February 20 2010 12:53 imweakless wrote:
gasol for sure is not soft.. like in the finals between lakers and orlando. he manhandled howard

What the hell? Howard had 15 pts/15 reb/4 blk/2 stl per game in the finals. Gasol was something like 18/9/2/1. He managed to hold his own, but any all-nba player should be able to do that. To insinuate that he "manhandled" Howard is just stupid.


Dwight Howard got reduced to a taller Ben Wallace in the finals. FG% and turnovers matter...

Game 1: 1 for 6, 10-16 ft, 2 turnovers. So 12 points in 16 possessions?
Game 2: 5 for 10, 7-9 ft, 7 turnovers. 17 points in 21ish possessions?
Game 3: 5 for 6, 11-16 ft, 1 turnover. 21 points in 15 possessions (guess which game orlando won, by the way)
Game 4: 5 for 12, 6-14 ft, 7 turnovers. 16 points in 26 possessions.
Game 5: 5 for 9, 1-3 ft, 3 turnovers. 11 points in 13 possessions.

Meanwhile Pau had 5 turnovers the whole series, never shot under .500,
Game 1: 7-12, 2-2, 2 turnovers.
Game 2: 7-14, 10-11, 0 turnovers
Game 3: 9-11, 5-6, 1 turnover
Game 4: 7-14, 2-4, 1 turnover
Game 5: 6-9, 2-4, 1 turnover

I won't say it was Pau Gasol, but Dwight got manhandled games 2 and 4, and game 1 was pretty bad too. Definitely not what I expected.

Have you ever seen Dwight Howard play? He is an absolutely awful offensive player. I've had the "pleasure" of watching almost every Orlando game since Dwight was drafted, and he's had so many offensive nights like the ones in the '09 finals that I lost count years ago. His turnovers are always amplified due to the insane number of offensive fouls he picks up (I am 100% certain he's led the league in offensive fouls the last 3 years). Dwight will get frustrated in the first quarter and then just mail it in until the fourth in some games. Up until recently he had absolutely no clue how to pass out of a double team, and he still gets the ball stripped from him at an alarming rate.

Moreover, Gasol wasn't even the primary defender on Dwight, Bynum was. The same goes for Gasol's offensive stats; Lewis was guarding him. I have no idea why you brought those stats up. Gasol's primary task with Howard was to help to keep him off the boards (team effort, no single player in the NBA can do that by himself), and that did not happen. In that same game 4 with the 7 turnovers, Dwight had 21 boards and 9 blocks (the "manhandler" had 10 reb/0 blk). Also, while the stat is flawed, Dwight's scoring efficiency for the series was 1.79, compared to Pau's 1.55.

Lastly, you need to stop throwing in random statistics just for the hell of it. You're adding possessions for all of Dwight's turnovers, which is idiotic. Even if Gasol WERE guarding Dwight, a turnover caused by Dwight running over a Laker guard (presumably the Oscar-winning D-Fish) has nothing to do with the manhandling in question. Did Gasol use his psychic powers to force Dwight into committing that offensive foul? Now consider that Pau wasn't the primary defender, and we're left with no other conclusion than you having no idea what you're saying. Oh, and your possession count doesn't even take and-1s into consideration. If you're considering taking that college math class, I'd advise against it.
igotmyown
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4291 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-20 09:56:14
February 20 2010 09:48 GMT
#1643
Nice to see a good old fashioned flaming defense of a former post. So tell me how you can list Dwight's 1.79 scoring efficiency without remorse, then in the next paragraph completely discount turnovers? Is there some sort of reason turnovers might qualify scoring efficiency?

And let me throw in more meaningless stats which completely coincidentally don't go well with some of your arguments.
Minutes
Game 1: Bynum 22:23, Gasol 37:18, Howard 34:58
Game 2: Bynum 16:24, Gasol 43:53, Howard 47:10
Game 3: Bynum 23:20, Gasol 39:47, Howard 43:05
Game 4: Bynum 15:40, Gasol 49:16, Howard 48:45
Game 5: Bynum 16:54, Gasol 42:09, Howard 39:12

Oh, and your and-1 count, tell me how many and 1's Dwight Howard had during the finals. + Show Spoiler +
Here you go http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/scoreboard?date=20090614. I even ran through one for you http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay/_/id/290614019/period/4/la-lakers-lakers-vs-orlando-magic. I counted 1 and one, and lo and behold, I assumed 1 and one attempt in my counting
And let me know how it works out when you scream yourself red trying to justify wrong answers to your TAs.
igotmyown
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4291 Posts
February 20 2010 10:20 GMT
#1644
And Bobcats are quietly getting scary. Stephen Jackson and now Tyrus Thomas. And since when did Theo Ratliff play for the Bobcats?

They might make 4th seed at this rate.
city42
Profile Joined October 2007
1656 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-20 10:32:43
February 20 2010 10:26 GMT
#1645
When did I completely discount turnovers? Please give a direct quote of me doing so. What I said was that mindlessly adding every turnover into a possession count used to measure the level of Pau Gasol's manhandling of Dwight Howard is stupid. Obviously turnovers are not good, but not all turnovers are the same. We are talking about Dwight's offense in terms of how it was impeded by Pau Gasol's menacing D, not his offense in general. Try rereading the paragraph (hint: check for the word "all" shoved in between "for" and "of").

I also enjoyed reading how my admission of scoring efficiency being a flawed stat turns into "listing scoring efficiency without remorse."

Your MPG stats don't change anything. Bynum _WAS_ the primary defender on Dwight, he just didn't last too long into the games for a multitude of reasons. Firstly, he was anemic on offense since returning from the injury. This wasn't just because of Howard's defense, as Bynum sucked it up in the previous three series as well. Secondly, he was very prone to fouling. When Bynum went out, they did not leave Gasol out by himself against Howard. Almost every time he touched the ball, someone (usually Bryant) came for the immediate double.

Why does it matter what the actual number of and-1s is? Your formula does not account for them, and is therefore flawed.


edit: As for your edit about accounting for the lone and-1 in game 5, you only did so because he shot an odd number of FTs in that game. In the three games with an even number of FTs, you make a potentially erroneous assumption of two FTs per trip in calculating the total number of possessions.
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-20 11:25:03
February 20 2010 11:22 GMT
#1646
lol @ scoring effiency. That's an insanely misleading statistic.

On February 20 2010 19:20 igotmyown wrote:
And Bobcats are quietly getting scary. Stephen Jackson and now Tyrus Thomas. And since when did Theo Ratliff play for the Bobcats?

They might make 4th seed at this rate.


Ok you've lost it v_v. They'll MAYBE make the 5th seed. No way they are better than Atlanta or Boston.

Tyrus Thomas is still overrated.

and wtf Theo Ratliff is on the Bobcats? Sigh, too bad he's no longer the defensive beast he used to be.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
tonight
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States11130 Posts
February 20 2010 17:51 GMT
#1647
Fucking Jamison's stats are going to decrease so much in Cleveland. I might have to trade him now
if I come without a thing, then I come with all I need @tonightsend
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
February 20 2010 17:53 GMT
#1648
he go 12 shots man, come on don't trade him yet!

Unless you're sending him to me ^_^
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
tonight
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States11130 Posts
February 20 2010 17:58 GMT
#1649
I don't think his points will go down too much, but his rebounds will. I'll wait it out a bit, but he was tearing shit up for me on a horrid Wizards team.
if I come without a thing, then I come with all I need @tonightsend
Xeris
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
Iran17695 Posts
February 20 2010 18:11 GMT
#1650
I hope Bobcats finish with the 8th seed and destroy Clevland round 1 ^_^

fuck Cavs yo
twitter.com/xerislight -- follow me~~
tonight
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States11130 Posts
February 20 2010 18:41 GMT
#1651
Would never happen, I'm sorry
if I come without a thing, then I come with all I need @tonightsend
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
February 20 2010 20:00 GMT
#1652
I dunno. There's a slight chance of a GS-DAL kind of an upset. CHA is 3-1 against the Cavs this season and I could easily see Larry Brown outcoaching MIke Brown in a series. With that said, the chance is slight and it'd still be a huge upset if it did happen.
Moderator
Xeris
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
Iran17695 Posts
February 20 2010 22:27 GMT
#1653
On February 21 2010 03:41 tonight wrote:
Would never happen, I'm sorry


There's actually a chance of that happening, especially considering how well the Bobcats seem to match up against Clevland. The Bobcats are the East's version of OKC / Memphis... they're this young/fiesty/scrappy team that may not have what it takes to go deep into the playoffs but DO have what it takes to play really inspired ball for 5-6 games and stun a high seed in the 1st round.
twitter.com/xerislight -- follow me~~
unknown.sam
Profile Joined May 2007
Philippines2701 Posts
February 21 2010 01:15 GMT
#1654
tmac playing pretty well so far. 10 pt first qtr
it'll be interesting to see how his knee holds up
"Thanks for the kind words, but if SS is the most interesting book you've ever read, you must have just started reading a couple of weeks ago." - Mark Rippetoe
DN2perfectionGM
Profile Joined August 2004
United States233 Posts
February 21 2010 01:43 GMT
#1655
i wanna watch the knicks game!
seems to be a lot of things that i want to do that i can't do nowadays T.T
JHU
poor newb
Profile Joined April 2004
United States1879 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-21 01:45:38
February 21 2010 01:44 GMT
#1656
tmac owning it up, looking good so far
How do you mine minerals?
unknown.sam
Profile Joined May 2007
Philippines2701 Posts
February 21 2010 01:47 GMT
#1657
still not so sure what to make of tmac's performance at the half. 19pts on 7-12 fg. one of them was a pretty reverse left hand layup but he hardly got off the floor lol

but it's good to see him playing well
"Thanks for the kind words, but if SS is the most interesting book you've ever read, you must have just started reading a couple of weeks ago." - Mark Rippetoe
DN2perfectionGM
Profile Joined August 2004
United States233 Posts
February 21 2010 01:52 GMT
#1658
sounds better than missing a blatantly open layup!
haha good old days...
JHU
bdams19
Profile Joined January 2005
United States1316 Posts
February 21 2010 01:53 GMT
#1659
TmACCCCCCCC LEBRON AND BOSH 2010

a man can dream
Servolisk
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
United States5241 Posts
February 21 2010 02:09 GMT
#1660
It is great to see TMac with great stats. Unfortunately I couldn't watch :/ Still have to be cautious given other peoples pattern of looking good initially after microfracture recovery then completely degrading, but maybe that is something to do with the older surgery cases... :O

Anyone watching can say if he is just shooting well but doesn't look physically the same or something?
wtf was that signature
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