EPTWorld of Warcraft: Cataclysm Expansion Discussion - Page 3
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Slaughter
United States20255 Posts
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GGQ
Canada2653 Posts
On August 26 2009 04:19 HuskyTheHusky wrote: Enjoy leveling up and re-gearing again. Lets see... how many tiers are there now? 8? Plus the third expansion.... soooooo: 1) leveling to max level 4 times, check 2) Gearing up 8 times + 3 expansions = around 11 times, check 3) Reusing all the same old content with new skins, check. I am really glad I dont play WoW anymore. I cant believe people are excited about this expansion, but then again I got sick of grinding nonstop just to be equal to what I was before a long time ago. A lot of people are still into having to re-climb the tier ladder over and over. If you played wow because you were 'into having to re-climb the tier ladder over and over', then you missed the point and are well-served to have quit wow. You don't play wow to 'climb the tier ladder'; you play wow because it's fun. I see this crap from ex-wow players all the time, and it always boggles my mind. People saying they quit wow because it's all just a grind, and every time a new patch or expansion comes out, everything they had before is meaningless and they have to do it all over again. To which I can only say "yeah...so?" Isn't that obvious upon even a cursory examination of the game? Weren't you well aware of that before you started playing? I certainly was. It's an obvious mechanism that drives the game (like most mmo's). I can only assume it comes from a faulty perspective on the game. If your attitude is really "i want all the best gearzorz so i can be leet!" then yeah, you need to quit wow asap because your goal is impossible. New and better gearzorz will continue to come out until the servers finally go down, and then it doesnt matter if you had the best gearzorz anyways.Grinding your ass off to stay at the top level just so you can be at the top level is idiotic, but (judging from the number of times I've seen posts like HuskytheHusky's) apparently a lot of wow players do it. Too bad for the them. I think some wow players have this feeling that they are 'obligated' to get all the next gear from a new raid, or 'forced' to buy a new expansion, because they've already invested so much time and energy into their character that it would be a 'waste' if they don't keep the character at the top level. This is stupid. The time you spend playing a game should be justified purely by the amount of fun you are having by playing it. Personally, I could delete all of my characters right now and I wouldn't feel that the time I played them was wasted (I actually did delete one my max level characters once, just because I didn't think I'd ever want to play him again. No regrets). Yes, I am excited for the new expansion. I'm not excited for 'grinding nonstop just to be equal to what I was before', and I'm not excited to 'climb the tier ladder' all over again. I'm excited to explore new areas, new stories, and new races with my friends. I'm excited to try out new spells, talents and glyphs and figure out how to use them most effectively (and no, finding a rotation on EJ is not the same as learning to use them most effectively). I'm excited to face new bosses with my guild and continue improving our teamwork. These are the reasons a person should play wow. Climbing the tier ladder is just what's gonna happen in the background while I have fun playing wow with my friends. | ||
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Bosu
United States3247 Posts
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Husky
United States3362 Posts
On August 26 2009 08:32 GGQ wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 26 2009 04:19 HuskyTheHusky wrote: Enjoy leveling up and re-gearing again. Lets see... how many tiers are there now? 8? Plus the third expansion.... soooooo: 1) leveling to max level 4 times, check 2) Gearing up 8 times + 3 expansions = around 11 times, check 3) Reusing all the same old content with new skins, check. I am really glad I dont play WoW anymore. I cant believe people are excited about this expansion, but then again I got sick of grinding nonstop just to be equal to what I was before a long time ago. A lot of people are still into having to re-climb the tier ladder over and over. If you played wow because you were 'into having to re-climb the tier ladder over and over', then you missed the point and are well-served to have quit wow. You don't play wow to 'climb the tier ladder'; you play wow because it's fun. I see this crap from ex-wow players all the time, and it always boggles my mind. People saying they quit wow because it's all just a grind, and every time a new patch or expansion comes out, everything they had before is meaningless and they have to do it all over again. To which I can only say "yeah...so?" Isn't that obvious upon even a cursory examination of the game? Weren't you well aware of that before you started playing? I certainly was. It's an obvious mechanism that drives the game (like most mmo's). I can only assume it comes from a faulty perspective on the game. If your attitude is really "i want all the best gearzorz so i can be leet!" then yeah, you need to quit wow asap because your goal is impossible. New and better gearzorz will continue to come out until the servers finally go down, and then it doesnt matter if you had the best gearzorz anyways.Grinding your ass off to stay at the top level just so you can be at the top level is idiotic, but (judging from the number of times I've seen posts like HuskytheHusky's) apparently a lot of wow players do it. Too bad for the them. I think some wow players have this feeling that they are 'obligated' to get all the next gear from a new raid, or 'forced' to buy a new expansion, because they've already invested so much time and energy into their character that it would be a 'waste' if they don't keep the character at the top level. This is stupid. The time you spend playing a game should be justified purely by the amount of fun you are having by playing it. Personally, I could delete all of my characters right now and I wouldn't feel that the time I played them was wasted (I actually did delete one my max level characters once, just because I didn't think I'd ever want to play him again. No regrets). Yes, I am excited for the new expansion. I'm not excited for 'grinding nonstop just to be equal to what I was before', and I'm not excited to 'climb the tier ladder' all over again. I'm excited to explore new areas, new stories, and new races with my friends. I'm excited to try out new spells, talents and glyphs and figure out how to use them most effectively (and no, finding a rotation on EJ is not the same as learning to use them most effectively). I'm excited to face new bosses with my guild and continue improving our teamwork. These are the reasons a person should play wow. Climbing the tier ladder is just what's gonna happen in the background while I have fun playing wow with my friends. You fit into the category of most WoW players. People who play to socialize and hang out. Basically a 3D MySpace. When Blizzard tried to make WoW an e-sport is when it started to go downhill. I am a fairly competitive person and I think for a game to be an e-sport it needs to be an equal playing field for all those involved. WoW is simply not that. Its a great game if you just like to dilly dally in town for 5 hours at a time, but if you want actual balanced PvP, or even balanced PvE, WoW is not a good choice. This is why I have stuck with SC longer than I stuck with WoW. For anyone who PvP's, WoW is completely unfair. You literally have to grind for hours and hours to even have a chance to be equal with your opponents. This is a fairly well known fact and is the reason WoW is an awful e-sport. The only reason people watch it is because there are SO many people who play WoW and Blizzard pumps wayyyyyyy too much money into sponsoring the tournaments. I would say around 95% of people who play WoW (if not more) are casual players, or people who do PvE. Just took me 4 years to realize that SC > WoW if you like anything other than PvE and chatting it up with random people 5 hours a day. | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On August 26 2009 08:32 GGQ wrote: I can only assume it comes from a faulty perspective on the game. If your attitude is really "i want all the best gearzorz so i can be leet!" then yeah, you need to quit wow asap because your goal is impossible. New and better gearzorz will continue to come out until the servers finally go down, and then it doesnt matter if you had the best gearzorz anyways.Grinding your ass off to stay at the top level just so you can be at the top level is idiotic, but (judging from the number of times I've seen posts like HuskytheHusky's) apparently a lot of wow players do it. Too bad for the them. For some people it's fun not to uh.. well frankly it's fun not to SUCK. Who exactly are you to say that their play style is idiotic? I don't know how else to put it. I honestly had no problem grinding really. Getting and beating new bosses as fast as possible was what made WoW fun for me. I liked the feeling of accomplishment, I liked the friendships it built, and I liked the race Then blizzard made it too easy. It used to take a week of planning and other such things to kill a Naxx 60 boss and in WOTLK Ulduar was cleared after a single day... yea no thanks there. So yea some people like competition and like to be as good as possible... kinda like how a lot of people want to be as good at starcraft as possible? Same thing. | ||
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Torenhire
United States11681 Posts
MMOs aren't for everyone, deal with it. but, why not fuel the fire. I agree mostly with Jayme... alot of the PVE stuff is cakewalk now. I used to be in Catalyst on Feathermoon (Pre-BC, 3rd place US Alliance guild) and even we had weeks at a time where we'd bang our heads on the same boss in Naxx40. I can understand Blizzard's mindset. Think about how the gameplay has progressed. Vanilla WoW : Raiding was hard as hell. I knew alot of really good players that couldn't take down Rag in MC. Maybe not to you and I, but just the idea of getting 40 people together for hours at a time, a few days a week...that's difficult for someone who can't play very often. PVP sucked for people who were in this "I can't raid" boat because PVP gear and PVE gear were basically the same thing...which was the same in 90% of MMO's at the time. I'd faceroll people who I knew for a fact should be kicking my ass only because I was in 9 piece Redemption and my stats were so much better. BC : Raiding was pretty tough. Not as hard as it used to be with the new 10/25 deal but there was easy raiding content that was quick (see: Kara, Gruul's) and then there was the more difficult stuff (Tempest Keep, Serpentshrine). Eventually, WAY harder stuff came out (Black Temple, Sunwell) .... Unfortunately I left Catalyst due to realm drama (Some people let being good at WoW get to their head..) so I didn't even get into anything past Gruul's in BC.  I digress.. Resilience was put in! YAY. PVPers could smash the amazingly geared PVE folk because resilience made it easymode. I really liked the original system here... PVPers had to work REAL hard at PVP to get good PVP gear, and PVE had to be real good at PVE to get good PVE gear...Makes sense, yes? Well Mr. Raidman was like "oh my god I'm clearing Sunwell with the other 4% of the people in WoW but that PVP Gladiator who can't even clear Kara roflstomped me! QQ!!!" Well here you go, buy some PVP gear with your Tier Tokens. Mr. PVPman, "Yo, what the fuck? I can't buy PVE gear with my honor points" Well...let's make the PVP gear pretty much the same as PVE gear. bye bye good loot system.WOTLK : Now we have a step in the right direction..kinda. There's casual and hardcore raiding, so the people who can only raid two nights a week can clear Uld, and then there's hardmode which will take a bit more time...still not nearly as hard as prenerf Sunwell or Naxx40...but harder than the stuff released in Wrath so far...but then we went one more step in the wrong direction by this new heroic system.. Run heroic 5mans and get 10/25man level loot? 5man heroic TOC drops Uld level gear? Waaaaat? Wait I can buy PVP gear with my tokens now...oh shit these raid instances drop rating-only PVP gear now! : DDDDDD Call me crazy but I really liked the totally seperate PVP / PVE stuff. It was never impossible to invest time in both, and it rewarded you for being good in whatever you were good at... I'm looking forward to the expansion but I'm a little hesitant to get too excited over it until more details come out. ...also I might have to change my human pally into a Tauren Pally just because of the mass influx of little kids who want to play werewolves. I know all my horde friends are mad that alliance get all the cool stuff but when you think about it...you know that's going to happen. lol. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20255 Posts
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GGQ
Canada2653 Posts
I see that I have been misunderstood. Don't mistake me for a bad, or even for a 'casual' (though many people seem to think those mean the same thing). Just because I don't value my top level gear doesn't mean I don't have it. I'm a starter in my guild, which finished almost every hard mode in Ulduar before 3.2 hit live. If I wasn't good at the game, and in a good guild, I would be very frustrated and probably quit. I don't know how else to put it. I honestly had no problem grinding really. Getting and beating new bosses as fast as possible was what made WoW fun for me. I liked the feeling of accomplishment, I liked the friendships it built, and I liked the race This is actually kind of what I meant. When I said it's idiotic to grind your ass off to stay at the top level just to be at the top level, this isn't what I meant. This is grinding your ass off to stay at the top level so that you can beat new bosses as fast as possible. If that's fun for you (and it is for me), then great. If it stops being fun (which apparently it did for you), then stop playing. Great. The problem arises when it stops being fun but you keep grinding to stay at the top, no longer for the enjoyment of the game, but just 'to be at the top'. The difference is important: (1) grinding to stay at the top for the sake of challenge, competition, and fun = a rewarding experience that will continue to be rewarding as long as new bosses are released (2) grinding to stay at the top for the sake of being at the top = a pointless waste of your time since after the next patch you won't be 'at the top' anymore The corollary to my point is that if you write something along the lines of "WoW is stupid because you have to keep grinding your way back up to be as strong as you were before", or "WoW sucks because the new expansion made everything I did before pointless", then (whether you were aware of it or not) you belonged to group 2. If you belong to group 1, you barely notice the grind, you are eager for more content to work through, and when previous content becomes outdated you don't think of it as 'a waste of time', but as a series of good memories. Then blizzard made it too easy. It used to take a week of planning and other such things to kill a Naxx 60 boss and in WOTLK Ulduar was cleared after a single day... yea no thanks there. Alone in the Darkness is the most difficult fight ever, according to the people who have beaten it (this lucky group does not, sadly, include me). @HuskytheHusky Yeah, about WoW PvP... I agree it's retarded and Arena esport is so unbalanced it's laughable. I only pvp to dick around in battlegrounds with friends. WoW is just not designed for good pvp. I've played good PvP mmorpg's (Shadowbane <3 ... a maxed out character with top of the line gear from creation to completion in less than 24 hours... with character creation and customization so deep and complex that few understood how to abuse it even 5 years later ... meaningful pvp that required fast reflexes, strategical planning, and daring mindgames... such a good game) | ||
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
Paying 50 bucks for this shit? Go fuck yourselves. | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On August 26 2009 10:01 GGQ wrote: Alone in the Darkness is the most difficult fight ever, according to the people who have beaten it (this lucky group does not, sadly, include me). The problem I have/had (I quit back in April, I still have a few friends that play "high" level) with Alone in the Darkness and its ilk is that it revolves around doing a fight incorrectly. It goes against everything in any MMO ever to be honest and it always felt wrong to me to artificially make a fight harder by intentionally screwing up :p. | ||
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Torenhire
United States11681 Posts
On August 26 2009 10:38 Sfydjklm wrote: i agree with the notion that azeroth, the original wow, being the best continent, but that's exactly why i hate this patch, it takes the good ol' zones and rapes em instead of introducing new content. I mean its a fucking expansion not a patch, they did just about the same amount of changes with free patches since wotlk came out. Paying 50 bucks for this shit? Go fuck yourselves. They aren't necessarily "raping" them. The expansion was announced like...a week ago, give it time and let's see what exactly is going to happen before we get too pissy about it. Although I agree 50 bucks it alot more expensive than it should be. They'd probably sell alot more copies if they dropped the game 10-20 bucks. | ||
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Pellucidity
Netherlands377 Posts
Everybody that's complaining about PVP has yet to reach a 1000 points I bet. Do you not remember the years of practice it took for you to actually stop sucking at SC? Hell I bet most people started as mouse-only players and had to completely start over at some point to learn how to play with hotkeys. Your wow characters take time to develop, yes, but so did your SC skills. Why shouldn't you have to put some effort into it? And mind you that whilst you're doing this you're also learning about your class. You could be in the best gear currently available and still get cockslapped by anyone with more knowledge about the classes and mechanics (despite their gear). Take me for example, I got to 1900 rating in season 3 gear (during season 6) with a partner whom was also in crappy gear. Yes you will hit a barrier eventually because of your gear. But by that time you should have enough points to get yourself NEW gear and continue your plans of WORLD DOMINATION. Once you're at 2.2/3k rating everybody will have exactly the same gear, some people may have a couple of pve items mixed in but that's their choice. The point is, don't hate what you can't do. I don't hate SC or SC players As for Balance, I agree there have been SOME issues with balancing but they appear to be solved now. For the first time in 3 years RMP isn't the only possible set-up and every class is viable. If you quit before the latest patches I suggest you give it another try ^_^. Erm.. I'd defend PvE but personally I don't really care for PvE. Mods and info sites have made it childsplay so I have stopped doing it. I find there are a lot of better games to play instead of raiding 40 hours a week. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On August 26 2009 08:58 Jayme wrote: Then blizzard made it too easy. It used to take a week of planning and other such things to kill a Naxx 60 boss and in WOTLK Ulduar was cleared after a single day... yea no thanks there. I've heard the gargoyles in Naxx60 were tougher than the first Colosseum boss. o.o | ||
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soonsu
France166 Posts
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
On August 26 2009 11:14 Pellucidity wrote: Everybody that's complaining about PVP has yet to reach a 1000 points I bet. makes me wonder wether you have done it, cos you can practically reach 1k pts by facerolling. Quiet literally. I find WOW pvp fun. But thats were it ends. Its fun, not competitive. When you pvp in wow its like boxing in a pool of jello. There is this oozy feeling of lag/latency and flaws in game design that cause enormously delayed response time that just never go away. It is, in many ways, what Condition Zero/Source are for original CS, but thousands time worse. Even if it was balanced, and there wouldnt be any RNG, it still wouldnt be competitive without a complete engine revamp. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20255 Posts
On August 26 2009 12:59 Sfydjklm wrote: i don't know how it was back in the pre-wotlk days, but i would imagine because of blizzard server policy, 40-60 man raids main obstacle would be finding 40-60 competent people. What can you do that server division really hurts population and currently its pretty hard to even fill a 25 man raid with at least geared, not necessarily skilled players. I have a general dislike for massive raids i personally find even 25 raids to be on the retarded side. Simply because as number of players decreases the requirements for per player skill increases. My personal hard on would be uber hard 10 man instances. 40 was the max for raids pre vanilla, and you really couldn't suck when you raided back then. Gear was not as big a factor but getting the people was. It took guilds a while to progress, so you can't really say that 40 man raids have less overall skill then a 25 man. More people = more potential for mistakes since you have more people to depend on to do their job. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10939 Posts
On August 26 2009 11:14 Jibba wrote: I've heard the gargoyles in Naxx60 were tougher than the first Colosseum boss. o.o The double pack Gargs in Naxx was, if you didn't allready have top gear, harder than most Bosses in TBC except the ones in Sunwell. Raiding in TBC was for retards... My Guild had tons of people that really couldn't play the game at all and we beat Brutallos... | ||
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Pufftrees
2449 Posts
On August 23 2009 18:02 Railz wrote: ...They're not even trying with the lore anymore. For starters, Thrall would never leave an untested Hellscream at the helm of the horde; he was super moderate in his rule - he would've chosen Cairne way before Hellscream Second, The Guardian was a birth right not a creation. /sad On a side note, I do love Azeroth and I do commend them for going back, but it is still a little too late I think for me. Cairne dies ;( | ||
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Husky
United States3362 Posts
On August 26 2009 11:14 Pellucidity wrote: + Show Spoiler + Sigh, silly SC elitists. Yes SC is a great game but you have no right to bash other e-sports. We're all in the same boat here. Everybody that's complaining about PVP has yet to reach a 1000 points I bet. Do you not remember the years of practice it took for you to actually stop sucking at SC? Hell I bet most people started as mouse-only players and had to completely start over at some point to learn how to play with hotkeys. Your wow characters take time to develop, yes, but so did your SC skills. Why shouldn't you have to put some effort into it? And mind you that whilst you're doing this you're also learning about your class. You could be in the best gear currently available and still get cockslapped by anyone with more knowledge about the classes and mechanics (despite their gear). Take me for example, I got to 1900 rating in season 3 gear (during season 6) with a partner whom was also in crappy gear. Yes you will hit a barrier eventually because of your gear. But by that time you should have enough points to get yourself NEW gear and continue your plans of WORLD DOMINATION. Once you're at 2.2/3k rating everybody will have exactly the same gear, some people may have a couple of pve items mixed in but that's their choice. The point is, don't hate what you can't do. I don't hate SC or SC players As for Balance, I agree there have been SOME issues with balancing but they appear to be solved now. For the first time in 3 years RMP isn't the only possible set-up and every class is viable. If you quit before the latest patches I suggest you give it another try ^_^. Erm.. I'd defend PvE but personally I don't really care for PvE. Mods and info sites have made it childsplay so I have stopped doing it. I find there are a lot of better games to play instead of raiding 40 hours a week. WoW PvP is not balanced, it never has been and never will be. There are too many factors in it plus it isnt an even playing field for all those involved. RNG does NOT work for e-sports. Sure, Blizzard can force it into being one, but it could not sustain itself without Blizzard pumping all the money into it that they are. RNG is bad. Racials are bad as they are not accessible to everyone. On top of that, having to grind for weeks/months just to be equal gear of others is pretty dumb, the game should focus on your thinking/reactions/team work... not how much time you put into getting gear. WoW simply is not a good e-sport. Virtually everything about it goes against what makes a good sport. PvP is fun, sure, but I facerolled to 2150 last season (this season? I dont know, I dont follow it anymore). It just depends what class Blizzard feels like buffing that month. | ||
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