Serious Business by NeverGG TeamLiquid: Final Edits
The Korean StarCraft scene has a problem.
It began with a slow crawl; notices stuck to the walls of the backstage rooms at OGN's studios and a sudden down turn in certain trends which had ignited the passion of fans from around the world.
Now it's in your face, printed in bold type across the pages of Korean websites such as the hub of all things Esports; Fomos.co.kr. It seems that a week cannot go by recently without another story dedicated to how a player has failed to abide by the stringent new guidelines imposed upon them by the Esports governing body Kespa.
Yet, it is merely the tip of a very large and pervasive iceberg.
Steps had been made since April of 2008 to make StarCraft more accessible to the casual viewer. Those who watched from home or dropped by the live events at Yongsan and LOOX could now engage with the playful and mischevious personalities of Shogun and his 'ancestor' Bunkie. These mascots handed out free gifts such as keychains and Christmas themed stationary to the gathered fans. They made children's faces light up with a simple candy or dance and even the stoniest of older male fans played along with their antics.
~ Love him or hate him, Bunkie brought a new energy to the live events. ~
SKT1 decorated the benches behind which their team sat with rainbow colored signs. Christmas in particular led to an influx of silly hats and sillier behaviour from the team who had succeeded in turning around their negative public image to one of generousity and pure entertainment.
~ SKT1's decorations have become noticably more subdued. ~
Firebathero (Lee Sungeun) enthralled and appalled fans in equal measures as he divided the netizens of Korea and abroad with his outrageous dances and inciteful behaviour that highlighted a self-fabricated rivalry between himself and Ma Jaeyoon (SaviOr.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLSTKkaLwUA&NR=1
~ Firebathero polarizes the StarCrafting community with his bold moves. ~
Even the shyest of players became gods of confidence and cockiness as they strode from the booths to deliver a cutting gesture or, in the case of the 2v2 teams some hilariously well co-ordinated ceremonies that left the commentators and fans alike reeling with laughter and surprise.
~ Various spirited ceremonies from days gone by. ~
But those days have come to an end.
First it was Ruby (Min Chanki) and his forfeit loss against KTF's newcomer Hoejja. The successor of the undisputed king of mistakes Son Chanwoong (BackHo.) whose 'ziziyo' retort has become the stuff of legend within the StarCraft community, Ruby was penalized in a move that many fans called un-necessarily harsh.
~ Min Chanki - Ruby; Now headed for Air Force ACE. ~
'I can understand them limiting it to a few options. What I don't get why they don't allow the most common ones, including ww.
Also, wouldn't a warning be enough? Seriously - he typed ww - followed by gg. Just a mistake - no one got hurt. Even from an admins perspective this is just a bit to severe.' (Doso - Teamliquid.net) 'Instead of focusing on issues that actually require attention, KeSPA occupies itself with pointless BS like this? Djzs christ, it's a miracle Korean e-sports actually survived for so long with such a lame governing body.' (foeffa - Teamliquid.net)
As if to cement the concerns of the fans over Kespa's increasingly aggressive application of rules such as these it was then Leta (Shin Sangmoon) who bore the brunt of the new stipulations. A single keystroke cost him his match against STX Soul's Kim Kyuhyun (Kal) during week four of Proleague's fourth round. The netizens of Korea were outraged by the seemingly random injustice of Leta being penalized for an equipment malfunction and the subsequent ignorance towards the issue raised in the post-match period.
~ Leta - the second gamer to earn himself a forfeit loss. ~
"When they made the rules I knew something like this would happen... rules are rules but seriously..."
"Since when were they so uptight about sticking to the rules that they lost their common sense?" "e-sports is fucked." (Translated credited to konadora - Teamliquid.net)
Along with the massive restraint now imposed upon ceremonies which has led to countless weeks of dumbed down bowing and stoic faces amongst the teams who had begun to introduce so many measures to make StarCraft more entertaining and a showcase for the positivity and enjoyment to be gained from participating in and watching professional esporting events - is StarCraft becoming far too serious for it's own good?
You may ask yourself - with StarCraft 2 looming upon the horizon, does this new approach even matter? For those fans who dedicate themselves whole heartedly to deriving happiness from the reactions of the players and the variety of the events they can watch this new somber attitude towards StarCraft means everything.
This is not to say that all the current problems stem from the strict enforcement of Kespa's regulations. Kespa has aspirations of globalising Korean Esports to the degree that it is mainstream and more comprehensibly linked with that of foreign countries that should be lauded.
Also the introduction of rules to promote fair-play such as briefly and discreetly checking players' equipment before matches do not interfer with either the atmosphere or flow of the events themselves. For this Kespa is recognized as having a good comprehension of what is necessary to make sure all the games played during Korean live events are set upon a level playing ground. It is these incidents that seem to be inconsistent with the otherwise wide-spread adherance to the rules that are beginning to promote a negative and heavy-handed view of the organization and the scene in general when they are seen from so many different perspectives. Why, was it acceptable for one player to create a pylon heart in the middle of a map during a MSL match (Much vs Firebathero.) - an act which directly contradicts the new rules on 'offensive' ceremonies from some perspectives without consequence and yet now a solitary misplaced keystroke is enough to land a player in major trouble? The Korean fans seem to demand a level of consistency which has not quite yet been realised.
Without rules, no doubt professional Esports would fall into chaos - but nowadays fans are the ones who question the limits of these regulations and whether when applied so liberally they might make StarCraft more of a chore than a pleasure for all involved.
However, it seems to be an ever increasing trend that the fringe Esports are now gathering larger and larger crowds - whereas the main leagues of StarCraft struggle to find sponsors or to keep the highly opinionated Korean netizen population from tearing them apart upon a weekly basis.
The most vivid example of this (and I have quoted this event several times in direct comparison to the current state of the StarCrafting world.) is Dungeon and Fighter. The latest Sunday evening league 'It's Your Turn!' (a similar set up to the 'Again Special Force.' league.) is now promoted by three separate and influential sponsors - Samsung, G-Market and a Korean gaming networking company. In a time when the OSL and MSL have used MMORPGs as sponsors (which are often looked down upon in comparison to the sponsorship of actual mainstream companies.) the fact that these so-called marginalized Esports can attract solid and regular sponsorship from companies such as the current Proleague sponsor Shinhan Bank is both worrying and encouraging for the promotion of a wider range of Esporting events.
~ One of many fan-pleasing ceremonies at Dungeon and Fighter League. ~
Unlike StarCraft, Dungeon and Fighter is not bound by excessive adherance to rules. They are observed, but with a large dose of frivolity and simple showmanship that balances out the serious side of the tournaments.
However, all hope is not lost.
The days of seeing Firebathero flailing around on stage to the roar of a thousand fans at Busan and Rock (Ahn Gihyo.) flinging himself off the stage in an impromptu display of testosterone might be over, but there are signs of hope amidst the sober playing field.
The teams, coaches and fans alike keep the spirit of enjoyment through gaming alive during their frequent fan meetings - games are played, gifts are exchanged and discussion with the players is encouraged. Even teams such as STX Soul - who were deemed overly conservative in their approach to their fanbase have opened up and allowed the young people who are so devoted to supporting them to create lasting and positive connections with the team they adore so much.
They may be disappointed and often enraged by the decisions made during matches, but these problems don't seem to be affecting the motivation and passion of the fans who are at the core of StarCraft. The international scene has undergone many changes in the last few months - some motivated by the economic recession and others by the passage of time. Still, as long as there are people who play (and spectate) out of love, determination and force of will the rules are going to be there to be broken. With the advent of StarCraft 2 maybe the Korean scene will recognize as the foreign one is beginning to, that there needs to be a balance between keeping things fair and keeping them entertaining.
(Apologies to anyone who doesn't want to be quoted - just PM me and I'll remove the offending paragraphs.)
Resources:
(Includes links explaining all the full stories behind the rule changes/Ruby and Leta incidents.)
Haha, great write up! I really love how SKT1 brightened up their image to a more fan-friendly level, introducing bunkie, as well as the players' write-up mini banners and stuff. Now all I could hope for is the players actually going to the audience and celebrating with them, sharing hi-fives or something instead of just going to their bench, giving each other hi-fives and sitting there.
Looks like I need to watch more Dungeon and Fighter.
sweet article negg! D: hm....well it can also be argued that while there have been a lack of big company sponsors for the major leagues, the biggest companies in SKorea are still sponsoring those 12 teams pretty much keeping the scene alive and players well fed and comfortable.
also the prize money hasn't gone down in the past years afaik, so that's alright for me! :D
I'd say they're really trying too hard to make competitive Starcraft 'serious business'. Would watching soccer be fun if the players were restricted in what type of ceremonies they can do after they score a goal? You know how it feels when your favorite team scores a goal. You want to celebrate it, and celebrate it proudly. But KeSPA setting up all these restrictive measures is just... killing esports rather than what they're supposed to do.
On May 05 2009 18:34 alffla wrote: sweet article negg! D: hm....well it can also be argued that while there have been a lack of big company sponsors for the major leagues, the biggest companies in SKorea are still sponsoring those 12 teams pretty much keeping the scene alive and players well fed and comfortable.
also the prize money hasn't gone down in the past years afaik, so that's alright for me! :D
That is very true - it would be a really obvious sign if the main sponsors began dropping out (especially the biggest companies involved in Esports such as Samsung and SK/KTF.) I think my focus lies more upon the increasing visibility of fringe esports these days and the decline in the general 'mood' or 'atmosphere' of StarCraft events due to a range of factors including, but most definitely not limited to economics.
I think it's also a good sign that Hanbit Stars managed to obtain such a good and well-known sponsor as Woongjin after that fiasco with their first replacement sponsor. (Lucky boys - their house looks so nice.)
On May 05 2009 18:42 konadora wrote: Who did Hanbit try to get before Woongjin signed up?
A company called 'Item Mania' which sells items for online MMORPGs if I remember correctly. They were deemed (rightly so imho.) by Kespa to be inappropriate as a sponsor. (Probably because they don't promote good gaming habits.)
If they keep using their rules in such ways like with Leta I am sure by time some teams will simple say "bye kespa" and play leagues where there is no strong kespa point of view (for example GOM). There is no way ceremonies are hurtful to esports - it is more like a fuel that makes it run better.
Samsung has a close partnership with Neople, the developer of DNF. Though Samsung is not the publisher of DNF (it's Nexon actually), the joint-campaign started at least two years ago. Let alone a DNF customized cell phone Samsung released few months ago. What's more, DNF is the only promotionalo title of WCG 2009 (absolutely Samsung sponsored) if anyone still follows WCG news.
It's fine that gaming companies always come first because we both belong to the gaming sector. Developers such as Wemade gave some decent cash to MBC to sponsor an RTS game tournament because their new RTS-like MMO targets at the same (at least similar) consumer base. It's marketing.
My point is....generally I'm happy to see other eSports games coming up no matter they are MMO, PC or console-based. Which will be the most popular one? Which will last more than ten years? Which will be replaced by the next-gen games? Time will tell.
I don't really agree with the article, I can agree with the fact that banning "spirited" ceremonies is bad idea IMO, because it made it more fun for the viewer and creates a lot of hype. But from my player perspective, e-Sports has gotten better, in a sense that the players are extremely good now, and it's really amazing how many good actions are going on inside the game nowadays, but to say "those days have come to an end." is kind of harsh. I think there's just a small problem with KeSPA that needs to be fixed in regarding punishment for their rules.
Nice article! Just one suggestion: You don't ever actually explain what Ruby and Leta did. Ruby's infraction is more or less explained by the first quote following his picture, but it's never clear what happened to Leta. Of course, most people reading the article right now know what happened 'cause it's relatively fresh in our memories, but it would be good, I think, to include a brief summary of the two situations.
@Marine50 - it's a member of the Dungeon & Fighter team 20:3.
@Pyrthas - I didn't label it, but the links to the full articles are in the resources at the bottom
@motbob - Yeah, I'm aware of that. My point is more - what was so drastically wrong with the actions taken before that prompted the rules to be put into place in the first place and was the situation more agreeable than the current climate of control and restraint. (I didn't actually know this would become a Final Edit - it was just written for fun ^^.)
I think kespa wants the games to be as "un-offensive" as possible, and made the rules to be what they though were the best. and the referees are too rigid to actually bother interpreting the rules; they just follow them blindly.
so either a) referees should be given some more discretion or b) they should change the rules. The rule in itself might not be a bad thing (despite the loss of "zizi yO" etc) but... yeah, something's gotta change.
I'm a huge fan of esports (not only starcraft) and the Korean scene still amazes me It's really something special.
As for the question "StarCraft becoming far too serious for it's own good?"
It's very hard to answer, I think there needs to be some sort of balance, being professional doesn't mean removing the human factor, sports in general have a lot of emotion involved and if indeed Starcraft is a sport like others, things like celebrations and rivalries are a huge part of it and for that reason alone they should be left intact.
I often think if what SK has will ever catch on the Western World, sadly I think this is still very far from happening, progaming still carries a heavy stigma around here, and that's not very likely to change anytime soon.
Oh well i'm digressing, thanks for the article. +)
Who knows why KeSPA added offensive ceremonies. Was it because teams were pushing KeSPA to not allow FBH kinda ceremonies? Was it because progamers were pushing KeSPA? Not all players want to show hype ceremonies or play against ceremony doing player.
Perhaps KeSPA was middle man here which is right. Why would Progamers and proteams tell why these rules was implemented? Maybe they wanted those but KeSPA gets all blame (which is main reason why this kinda organization is there).
Why didn't progamers and proteams say anything against these new rules? Maybe they were key makers doing this / or pushing to make change.
On May 05 2009 22:23 Plexa wrote: I maintain that when players are allowed to chat in game (e.g. Boxer vs Yellow form PL all-star, youtube it) it makes the game so much better
That is main reason why I don't watch all-star events. Kinda lost it purpose if they didn't practice properly for it and just chat inside game.
On May 05 2009 22:25 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Who knows why KeSPA added offensive ceremonies. Was it because teams were pushing KeSPA to not allow FBH kinda ceremonies? Was it because progamers were pushing KeSPA? Not all players want to show hype ceremonies or play against ceremony doing player.
Perhaps KeSPA was middle man here which is right. Why would Progamers and proteams tell why these rules was implemented? Maybe they wanted those but KeSPA gets all blame (which is main reason why this kinda organization is there).
Why didn't progamers and proteams say anything against these new rules? Maybe they were key makers doing this / or pushing to make change.
On May 05 2009 22:23 Plexa wrote: I maintain that when players are allowed to chat in game (e.g. Boxer vs Yellow form PL all-star, youtube it) it makes the game so much better
That is main reason why I don't watch all-star events. Kinda lost it purpose if they didn't practice properly for it and just chat inside game.
maybe allstar PL is just kind of a Fun Event. because usually they face up with someone they have rivalry and they pair into a team that completely different people from he's team is in there ( except some )
On May 05 2009 22:25 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Who knows why KeSPA added offensive ceremonies. Was it because teams were pushing KeSPA to not allow FBH kinda ceremonies? Was it because progamers were pushing KeSPA? Not all players want to show hype ceremonies or play against ceremony doing player.
Perhaps KeSPA was middle man here which is right. Why would Progamers and proteams tell why these rules was implemented? Maybe they wanted those but KeSPA gets all blame (which is main reason why this kinda organization is there).
Why didn't progamers and proteams say anything against these new rules? Maybe they were key makers doing this / or pushing to make change.
On May 05 2009 22:23 Plexa wrote: I maintain that when players are allowed to chat in game (e.g. Boxer vs Yellow form PL all-star, youtube it) it makes the game so much better
That is main reason why I don't watch all-star events. Kinda lost it purpose if they didn't practice properly for it and just chat inside game.
maybe allstar PL is just kind of a Fun Event. because usually they face up with someone they have rivalry and they pair into a team that completely different people from he's team is in there ( except some )
Yes, events such as All Star and Rival Battle Break aren't meant to be taken seriously at all - they're done for the sake of variety and to show fans something a little different from the usual leagues. Hence at the last All Stars event in Busan we saw coaches doing heart hands ceremonies and players doing forward rolls on stage They can't really be judged in the same way as one might evaluate the regular leagues because they serve a totally different purpose at present (during those rare times they're actually done that is.)
man I LOVE the silent agreement between everyone to ignore the fact that 'ceremonies' are by the most part incredibly subdued, embarrassingly shyly executed, limply delivered physical acts that would make a fist pump in the NFL look like Achilles parading around Troy with Hector fastened to his chariot; HOWEVER everyone still acts like they are outrageous physical stunts and their breath is taken away!
It's hilarious to think that the unquestionably footling actions of even someone so 'charismatic' as firebathero are considered outrageous when compared to any of the displays of professional athletes in NFL, football, hell even cricket. Well part hilarious and part tragic. Makes me want to face palm so much.
It would be so nice if they were encouraged to develop personalities outside the game, and do awesome signature ceremonies. Like Tito Ortiz with his grave digger ceremony after winning his fight.
I know the reason the paradigm is so insanely conservative is probably a combination of nerds being socially introverted and koreans being introverted; and it's all about the social context...but if they put it in the context of 'professional sports' how can it not be justifiable?
But I guess we have snooker, an example of a sport where you REALLY would not get a ceremony, and us Brits are incredibly introverted too. I still find it funny that everyone's like 'OHHHHH MMMMYYY FFUCCCCUUCKING GOD DID YOU JUST SEE THAT...>WTF>>>>> HE JUST DANCED FOR 3 SECONDS I THINK IM GOING TO DIE'
On May 05 2009 22:25 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Who knows why KeSPA added offensive ceremonies. Was it because teams were pushing KeSPA to not allow FBH kinda ceremonies? Was it because progamers were pushing KeSPA? Not all players want to show hype ceremonies or play against ceremony doing player.
Perhaps KeSPA was middle man here which is right. Why would Progamers and proteams tell why these rules was implemented? Maybe they wanted those but KeSPA gets all blame (which is main reason why this kinda organization is there).
Why didn't progamers and proteams say anything against these new rules? Maybe they were key makers doing this / or pushing to make change.
On May 05 2009 22:23 Plexa wrote: I maintain that when players are allowed to chat in game (e.g. Boxer vs Yellow form PL all-star, youtube it) it makes the game so much better
That is main reason why I don't watch all-star events. Kinda lost it purpose if they didn't practice properly for it and just chat inside game.
Watch Boxer vs Yellow, its easily one of the most re-streamed vods on OGN (its fucking good ;o)
I think they're taking the restrictions too far. Yes, it's good to want some level of professionalism, but I firmly believe that "professionalism" should not interfere with everyone involved having a good time. Isn't it better if everyone's crazy and happy rather than professional and depressed?
The days of seeing Firebathero flailing around on stage to the roar of a thousand fans at Busan and Rock (Ahn Gihyo.) flinging himself off the stage in an impromptu display of testosterone might be over, but there are signs of hope amidst the sober playing field.
That was my most favorite part in the whole article. Which all of it was very well written, I think everyone agrees how restrictions in e-sports like this are not a good thing.
On May 05 2009 23:08 HamerD wrote: It would be so nice if they were encouraged to develop personalities outside the game, and do awesome signature ceremonies. Like Tito Ortiz with his grave digger ceremony after winning his fight.
dag nabbit, I hate ortiz. But your right. Its fun. Well actually, Ortiz is cooler nowandays. I take that back.
On May 05 2009 22:23 Plexa wrote: I maintain that when players are allowed to chat in game (e.g. Boxer vs Yellow form PL all-star, youtube it) it makes the game so much better
I agree, Plexa. It's always entertaining when you can see them chat back and forth, especially when you can read a little of it.
To see a lighter side of the players like that is more entertaining to me than, for example, after-game ceremonies, although Rock's was godly.
This was a very informing article. I'm also quite agitated by the extent of the "serious business" rules KeSPA has been setting up in the recent months/years. It's ridiculous. It's understandable for a governing body to want to keep the playing ground leveled, but having this strict of rules and nitpicking arbitrary mistakes is ridiculous. Even political debates get to have moments of "how can she slap?!"
I hope that KESPA "gets it" and starts to figure out a way to have a level playing field without worrying too much about everything that the players do. Yes, it's a game/esport, and yes, there should be some rules of conduct. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that every single rule needs to be followed to the letter, only to the spirit.
On May 05 2009 22:23 Plexa wrote: I maintain that when players are allowed to chat in game (e.g. Boxer vs Yellow form PL all-star, youtube it) it makes the game so much better
I agree with you here plexa, the restrictions on chat and the requirement of saying gg and ppp for pausing is a tad ridiculous in here.
KeSPA in its attempt to be socially correct goes completely overboard. When there attempts to control mannerism and ensure an unoffensive environment interfere with the outcome of a game itself (Obviously referencing Leta vs Kal here) its ridiculous. The community and KeSPA are here for the game, their attempts at being socially correct are really pathetic and pushing it. KeSPA is designed to ensure fair competition, how can it even be remotely considered fair to disqualify someone for saying PP instead of PPP. When a rules are taking away the competition from the game like that its just plain wrong. Even if we pretend there was NOTHING wrong with Leta's screen, this rule is still fucked, let alone taking in to account that his monitor was defective.
KeSPA should exist to ENSURE FAIR PLAY. When they are forfeiting games to people for fucking typos they need to either get the fuck out or overhaul their rules.
On May 05 2009 22:23 Plexa wrote: I maintain that when players are allowed to chat in game (e.g. Boxer vs Yellow form PL all-star, youtube it) it makes the game so much better
I agree with you here plexa, the restrictions on chat and the requirement of saying gg and ppp for pausing is a tad ridiculous in here.
KeSPA in its attempt to be socially correct goes completely overboard. When there attempts to control mannerism and ensure an unoffensive environment interfere with the outcome of a game itself (Obviously referencing Leta vs Kal here) its ridiculous. The community and KeSPA are here for the game, their attempts at being socially correct are really pathetic and pushing it. KeSPA is designed to ensure fair competition, how can it even be remotely considered fair to disqualify someone for saying PP instead of PPP. When a rules are taking away the competition from the game like that its just plain wrong. Even if we pretend there was NOTHING wrong with Leta's screen, this rule is still fucked, let alone taking in to account that his monitor was defective.
KeSPA should exist to ENSURE FAIR PLAY. When they are forfeiting games to people for fucking typos they need to either get the fuck out or overhaul their rules.
Nice article NeverGg
I agree here, everyone knows that to maintain order, rules need to created, but following rules blindy and not using common sense just can mess things up. A bit of common sense would really help KeSPA. Everyone can typo sometimes, and losing game just because one missing letter is just retarded -.-
Just to point out a little mistake. Much vs FBH game with the pylon heart was not played in the proleague, but in Arena MSL R16 Game 3.
I didn't know there is another DQ victim other than Leta.
edit: I remembered during backho's ziziyo incident, KESPA didn't handled that well. They basically asked Firefist to make the final decision to whether he think he had lose the game. If Firefist is a jerk and don't care about his reputation, that game might in the end go to Firefist.
Fascinating article, and NeverGG you deserve mad credit for taking the time to trace the history of this very important issue in BW.
I never connected it with the institution of the "no offensive ceremonies" rule, but it is true that ceremonies are basically a thing of the past in pro SC. I think especially after Leta's disqualification, players live in fear of KeSPA punishments, and this fear is interfering with their jobs as players and as entertainers.
I hope that SC2 brings around a loosening of regulations that will increase SC's entertainment value. But with KeSPA still involved...it's unlikely. Are Korean fans as outraged about overregulation as we are??
On May 06 2009 02:19 perx80 wrote: Just to point out a little mistake. Much vs FBH game with the pylon heart was not played in the proleague, but in Arena MSL R16 Game 3.
I didn't know there is another DQ victim other than Leta.
edit: I remembered during backho's ziziyo incident, KESPA didn't handled that well. They basically asked Firefist to make the final decision to whether he think he had lose the game. If Firefist is a jerk and don't care about his reputation, that game might in the end go to Firefist.
That Backho vs Firefist was so wrong done by KeSPA. Referee should not talk to players at all (unless they pause). Win should have gone to Firefist but because KeSPA was afraid to not follow rules and started to ask help from players.
Though there wasn't these new rules which are now in use but they had similar "if you chat you get disqualified" thing. These new rules makes firefist vs backho situations obsolete.
Now they only have to learn to practise typing "ppp" and "gg". I bet coaches had few lessons to players after leta vs kal incident about rules.
On May 06 2009 02:19 perx80 wrote: Just to point out a little mistake. Much vs FBH game with the pylon heart was not played in the proleague, but in Arena MSL R16 Game 3.
I didn't know there is another DQ victim other than Leta.
edit: I remembered during backho's ziziyo incident, KESPA didn't handled that well. They basically asked Firefist to make the final decision to whether he think he had lose the game. If Firefist is a jerk and don't care about his reputation, that game might in the end go to Firefist.
That Backho vs Firefist was so wrong done by KeSPA. Referee should not talk to players at all (unless they pause). Win should have gone to Firefist but because KeSPA was afraid to not follow rules and started to ask help from players.
Though there wasn't these new rules which are now in use but they had similar "if you chat you get disqualified" thing. These new rules makes firefist vs backho situations obsolete.
Now they only have to learn to practise typing "ppp" and "gg". I bet coaches had few lessons to players after leta vs kal incident about rules.
Really? Did we watch the same game?
This is one of those things AGAIN where you have to use some freaking common sense from the referee's and all the problems would be solved... PERIOD.
That Backho vs Firefist where it was three bases against one base and Backho was already killing the last base and you want to give the win to Firefist because of a slipup that actually had no effect on the game? See smart ref's will realise that Firefist had plain lost and normally would have gg'd five minutes earlier anyway.
However Backho vs Firefist is one I would say is worthy of disqualification because it was a stupid thing to do by Backho, whatever if he got DQ'd he got DQ'd. So yes, that whole GG or PPP rule would make sense there because it was a pretty stupid situation by backho.
That is absolutely not the same thing as Leta vs Kal where a simple missed p with a flickering screen caused Leta and his team what could have quite possibly been a win. One p.. in a game where a fraction of a second can lose you 10 tanks. Give me a break.
The firefist vs backho deal didn't cause much of an uproar but that Leta vs Kal thing did because it's just one step further where KesPa is killing every single players unique traits and homogenizing it into one big boring game.
If they keep it up starcraft loses it's luster. People like FBH brought personality to what was a stagnant scene.
This isn't even about KesPa making stupid rules it's about the stupid ENFORCEMENT of them that bothers people. That "PPP" thing is a prime example of an action where any referee or sports company with an iota of common sense would have been like "Ok, maybe making them type 3 p's is asinine and maybe his screen is flickering before a big attack so maybe we can let it slide because I mean ... it's one p"
Any other sports organization would have either let it slide or not had such a stupid rule there in the first place. It's just that computers bring a whole range of technical difficulties that few sports have had to deal with before... you have to be cognizant of that when you make rules for it.
On May 05 2009 23:08 HamerD wrote: man I LOVE the silent agreement between everyone to ignore the fact that 'ceremonies' are by the most part incredibly subdued, embarrassingly shyly executed, limply delivered physical acts that would make a fist pump in the NFL look like Achilles parading around Troy with Hector fastened to his chariot; HOWEVER everyone still acts like they are outrageous physical stunts and their breath is taken away!
It's hilarious to think that the unquestionably footling actions of even someone so 'charismatic' as firebathero are considered outrageous when compared to any of the displays of professional athletes in NFL, football, hell even cricket. Well part hilarious and part tragic. Makes me want to face palm so much.
It would be so nice if they were encouraged to develop personalities outside the game, and do awesome signature ceremonies. Like Tito Ortiz with his grave digger ceremony after winning his fight.
I know the reason the paradigm is so insanely conservative is probably a combination of nerds being socially introverted and koreans being introverted; and it's all about the social context...but if they put it in the context of 'professional sports' how can it not be justifiable?
But I guess we have snooker, an example of a sport where you REALLY would not get a ceremony, and us Brits are incredibly introverted too. I still find it funny that everyone's like 'OHHHHH MMMMYYY FFUCCCCUUCKING GOD DID YOU JUST SEE THAT...>WTF>>>>> HE JUST DANCED FOR 3 SECONDS I THINK IM GOING TO DIE'
QFT, almost every ceremony I've seen has been extremely awkward.
Excellent write-up, I've always thought that referees and umpires should use the rules as rules of course, but be able to make an exception based on circumstances(blatantly comparing this to a judge acting in a court case).
On May 06 2009 04:02 Jayme wrote:This isn't even about KesPa making stupid rules it's about the stupid ENFORCEMENT of them that bothers people. That "PPP" thing is a prime example of an action where any referee or sports company with an iota of common sense would have been like "Ok, maybe making them type 3 p's is asinine and maybe his screen is flickering before a big attack so maybe we can let it slide because I mean ... it's one p".
The thing is that what if game is about to end but losing player types "pp" and winner replies back "gg". Why would he type back "gg", its because by reflect you only glimps chat box and see "xx" (xx = being random 2 characters) and instantly type back.
Now what would happen now, is it pause or lose for guy who types "gg"?
What would have happened if Kal would have typed "gg" to letas "pp"?
I find some of this funny cause Bisu just did a ceremony yesterday.... more would be great, but I think the lack of ceremonies from FBH may have a bit more to do with his recent performance.
If he returns to form, may see some more. Just, even he wouldn't do a ceremony when he's slumping, you know?
this reminds me of a 2v2 game nal_ra played a while back. 20 sec into the game, he "accidentally" (no one knows for sure) paused the game (perhaps because the p hotkey, and he hit f10 by accident?) or he paused on purpose because of a bad split? either way, he was instantly DQ'ed, and even the other team seemed pretty pissed.
On May 06 2009 07:18 errol1001 wrote: I find some of this funny cause Bisu just did a ceremony yesterday.... more would be great, but I think the lack of ceremonies from FBH may have a bit more to do with his recent performance.
If he returns to form, may see some more. Just, even he wouldn't do a ceremony when he's slumping, you know?
And notice how surprised a lot of people were by it - I'm so happy to see T1 are actually doing some active ceremonies these days. However, if you look at the vast majority of games being played recently a massive percentage of them end in either only a bow or a very small/repetative ceremony such as players holding up a sign (KTF.) or making small gestures (Hwaseung OZ.) I'm basing my comments upon what I've observed at Proleague mainly - it's not just FBH who isn't acting in the same manner they used to. (I need to watch that VOD - Bisu's singing is terrible so hopefully his dancing makes up for it lol!)
I think instances of cheating or unfair play would damage the esport more than being a little strict ever will. I don't mind it - I think it indicates growth.
"Offensive" ceremonies have been banned, but asides from the crotchthrusting of FBH or similar other BM ceremonies, I don't quite see how that correlates necessarily to a loss of fun in professional starcraft.
Although of course, this depends on the question: how offensive is "offensive", according to Kespa? Rock's jump didn't seem like it'd be offensive in any respect, but is that kind of ceremony covered under the ban?
On May 06 2009 08:17 konadora wrote: Bisu did the Sorry Sorry dance with Doctor.K, and Boxer joined them late
(Hahahaha I'm a big Super Junior fan.) I have to see this - it sounds wonderfully odd (especially the combination of people involved!)
@errol1001 - Yeah, talk about weird timing. I'm just so glad at least one of the teams is breaking out of the cycle of lacklustre (or indeed totally absent ceremonies.) Hopefully we'll see more displays of personality and fun at events in the future instead of all these depressing complications and incidents.
LOL me and my friends are trying to learn that dance for grad. I will make it my goal to destroy bisu in something because it's definetly not gonna happen in starcraft
Nice read!!! Thanks!!! I mean no more ceremonies seem a bit dull now and KESPA being too strict with some rules, but I guess basically how life goes and all. It's reality and no one can really do about unless some magical major power forces appear to change the laws of Starcraft completely..... But yea, to me, it just seem this is yet another end and start of a new chapter. Another process they have to go through and though not the final one to create Starcraft as a professional sport it deserves compared to soccer, baseball and basketball.... but imagine if Starcraft was an e-sport here in America too... wonder what will happen then...
On May 06 2009 12:45 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: zeus did ceremonies before fbh, though otherwise good writeup?
edit: at least to my recollection he was known for cockiness long before fbh was, and i thought i remembered some ceremonies... could be wrong though
Yeah - that's why I included him in the ceremonies video section because he's so well known for his 2v2 and solo ceremonies. I guess you could say he is FBH's ancestor in terms of bringing fun and eccentric ceremonies to the fans. Sadly now he's moved into coaching he doesn't do them anymore (I miss his dancing!)
On May 06 2009 09:35 SerpentFlame wrote: "Offensive" ceremonies have been banned, but asides from the crotchthrusting of FBH or similar other BM ceremonies, I don't quite see how that correlates necessarily to a loss of fun in professional starcraft.
Although of course, this depends on the question: how offensive is "offensive", according to Kespa? Rock's jump didn't seem like it'd be offensive in any respect, but is that kind of ceremony covered under the ban?
Firebathero should have dressed up as Hard Gay under his uniform, ripped off his clothes after winning, and THEN crotch-thrusted his way around the stage. Hooooooooooooooo!
All so we could watch the heads of the Korean audience explode.
I for one don't do offensive things when I play starcraft, or anything compertive for that matter, but i dont really see the harm in it. I mean from a strategic point of view if i know my opponent doesn't play very well when he is upset i think a little bit of mind games caused by ingame banter is just another part of the game. I think 'offensive' needs to be defined a little better for kespa
great article! seriously though, this has been pissing me off for a while. Kespa has become the starcraft-nazis! no 2v2s, no island maps, no ceremonies, no typing to each other, BS forfeit losses, THEYRE TAKING THE FUN OUT OF STARCRAFT
Very interesting article, thanks! Although I realized that I didn't understand some sentences. Your english is on a higher level. I must check several words asap.
On May 05 2009 22:23 Plexa wrote: I maintain that when players are allowed to chat in game (e.g. Boxer vs Yellow form PL all-star, youtube it) it makes the game so much better
SO entertaining when they interact with one another. Great article NeverGG! Very nicely organized and cohesive in material. Definitely learned a few things and made me look at the recent Kespa controversies in a new light.
On May 07 2009 22:50 InDaHouse wrote: Very interesting article, thanks! Although I realized that I didn't understand some sentences. Your english is on a higher level. I must check several words asap.
Yeah, sorry about the flowery writing. I used to study creative literature during high school so I always tend to make my work a bit overly dramatic and vocabulary-tastic. I'm glad you enjoyed reading though
Eh I don't care much for dancing celebrations anyways. It's too humiliating to the opponent. It reminds me of celebrations in the NFL, and how for many pure football enthusiasts the antics detract from the game. Bowing has always been a sign of respect for others and humility on the part of the winner. From what I can tell Koreans don't seem to be particularly in favor of ceremonies. There are plenty who don't like them as well as those who do.
As for the other rules they are pretty silly. Ppp vs. pp..? Lol.
its because this is the way korean culture has always been. There are strict rules set up for a good reason, and no matter how strict they are, once they are in place they are followed. Even customs are held to in a very strong way.
Many people here would not understand the rule-adhering customs of Koreans because you are obviously not familiar with them, however you don't see the Korean players in any outrage nor do they speak out against the system. It's simply the way we do things.
I agree that KeSPA is being a bit too harsh on these rules of "mistypes" and such, but I do believe they should cut out some of these ridiculous ceremonies after winning. After all, this is korea, which has a lot of respect, especially to elders. Also Starcraft to these programers are taken very seriously, and when you lose, you feel as if all your practice has been wasted. So when your victor does a humiliating dance in front of you(like FBH did to savior countless times) it hurts. I mean, if you just lost a game in front of many viewers, would you like it when they did an airplane dance all around you in front of everyone?
They should take a serious look at organized sports like soccer, baseball etc. actually shit...look at golf, one of the most popular sports in Korea. (and might i add the richest purse) Realize where they draw the line for etiquette and "offensiveness" for both the players and the spectators. Think of any big Championship from any sport, the Super bowl, the NBA Championships etc.....you never hear/see/view any offensive behavior that would berate or mock the losing opponent by the winners. If anything that would occur during the match, between the players to boost/lower morale etc. (mind games) And as for the sponsorship...thats a huge social situation (in Korea) that I know about, but am not part of everyday, but I believe that well....Starcraft 2 is coming out, at some point (prob this year) and the plane is taking off.....and not turning back around, everyone is going to look back @ the success of SC and the Korean scene to expand upon SC2 and other titles for Esports. (no other games comes close to this) quick short story I was actually at the US Open (Golf) a ocuple weeks ago.....had corporate tix, from the tent to Bethpage there was a Korean couple (from korea) sitting next to me with my friends behind and 30 something year old couple behind them...long story short, the korean man worked for a Media company out of Seoul. (cant rememeber the name i was tanked, a golf outing ffs!) We got to talkin about SC and Korea, turns out everyone in the shuttle including the driver all knew of/heard of starcraft. My point is if Starcraft2 is supposed to become the globally recognized e-sport that will truly have international leagues/matches as we all wish. Then this change Kespa creates is somewhat irrelevant. Allow the other, future companies to 'define' the guidelines. Heck, GOM is gonna be the leading SC2 tournament/league, let them create a Set Rule/Guideline.
Why don't we (the Starcraft Community) create a set of comprehensive rules for online/offline matches and etiquette. (Does this already exist for TL?)[sry for the long ass post, i tend to ramble, peace]
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