Celestial Terrain by Manifesto7 TeamLiquid: Final Edits
163. 163 Killing Fields. 163 chunks of terrain with honor and agony etched in every choke and on every main. It can be argued, and convincingly so, that the constant generation of new maps and unique concepts has been the most significant factor in maintaining interest in the pro scene. It is the casual gamers’ connection to the pros, watching utter destruction in the Neo Forbidden Zone, and then clumsily reproducing the effect on your own vs your friends. It is the contentious point of debate, it is the identity of a new league, it is the creator of great gamers and the humbler of former champions. The maps of progaming have always been, and will always be, a lynchpin in the progaming scene. Today, we take a look back at the top 10 maps of all time.
The maps in this list were rated on five criteria:
- Balance: Did each race stand a chance on this map? Could the gamer of greater skill prevail over his opponent more often than not? A subjective category, made objective with my keen eye and the TLPD machine.
- Memorable Games No map made it onto this list unless I could immediately think of an all-time great game, pimpest play, or dorito spilling wtf moment.
- Length of Use This is a contentious issue, as map sharing between the two networks is a relatively new phenomenon. These days maps are around for longer than before, and have far more games played than before. Nonetheless, the maps that play well stay for a long time.
- Innovation With the age of the game, map makers have constantly tried new things to keep interest up and gameplay fresh. In addition, some maps lend themselves to new strategies and style. Both of these are important in creating new successful maps.
- Kick-Ass-ness This is my own, subjective, and arbitrary rating of the map. If it kicks ass in my book, then it will in yours. Give me an Amen!
All versions of a map were counted in the selection. Just like the game, maps can improve and change over time. The fact that some maps get three versions, and others are scrapped after one, is indicative of a map’s value. Additionally, maps in current rotation can scarcely be considered, as they have not weathered the test of time.
Can a map be great if there were only 17 games played on it? Aren’t we merely scratching the surface of the map’s potential? Sometimes. But Incubus is where royalty is humbled, and greatness emerged. Boxer had won two StarLeagues in a row, and was well placed for a third title. In his way was the protoss Garimto, who few gave a chance of surviving. Two times the players met on this map, and two times the Zealot left a boot mark on the terran commander’s neck. It ended the era of Boxer, which has yet to reassert itself 7 long years later.
Three years after the fact, the map made a comeback as part of the massive SKY 2004 Proleague. However, it will always be these two games that people remember Incubus for.
There isn’t much flashy about this map. It caused a few ripples in the zerg creep because of the lack of gas at the natural, but that was simply the saving grace for protoss players at the time. No, Nostalgia doesn’t make it on this list for being revolutionary or flashy, but it was a dependable map for a long time. More importantly, it maintained its balance for more than a year without any revision. You know a game on Nostalgia would give everyone a fair shake.
Four StarLeagues, a KT-KTF league, numerous proleagues, and 260 total games.
I said I was not going to take a map still being used, but already Monty Hall is nearing the end of it’s reign. Why Monty Hall? Because it fits with my criteria of being influential and interesting. The designers took the properties of this famous math question and turned it into an ingenious StarCraft problem. Three pathways, all blocked by minerals. Your opponent on the other side. There is still the possibility to scout, but also the possibility to hide. The map gives time to build up, but punishes the blind. After a slight makeover, this map is still creating fascinating games and has again forced gamers to think outside the box.
Used in two starleagues, and a full year of ProLeague, this map weighs in at 199 games played.
Sure these maps are great and all, but everyone is human, even OGN! Because of the dynamic nature of StarCraft and the meticulous nature of progaming preparation, what seems like a good idea at the time really isn’t. So, here are the three biggest busts in progaming maps:
3 Alchemist
This was a clumsy attempt at a radical 3 player map. The open field and multiple entrances worked poorly for protoss, as zerg ran away with an 80% advantage. Aesthetically, the map was awful, a barren, uninspiring, Afghanistan look. Blah.
2 DMZ DMZ has the honour of being the second of two maps to actually be replaced partway into the season. After browsing the foreign community and seeing neat new concept maps utilizing permanent spells, map makers rushed a map full of dwebs onto front stage. Within a week, every game had degenerated into a TZ combo of 5 pooling and scv rushing. Obviously, not great TV. Let us hope that concept maps will be treated with kinder gloves next time.
1 Mercury
The map Mercury, which was promptly renamed Fuckury by fans, single handedly reduced StarCraft to a two race game by being used in qualification tournaments. As a result, in the IOPS OSL, Reach was the sole protoss player in the field of 16. Zerg would retire the map with a ZvP winning percentage of 78%, and the legacy of Mercury would live on to this day.
Arcadia was not a particularly innovative map in its design. As a rehash of a WCG map, Azealea, it seemed to be just another macro map, although slightly more offensive in that as it gave away two free expos. However, over the course of 206 games and 6 major leagues, Arcadia gave us some very entertaining games. The macro was disgusting, but the layout had just enough personality to allow for harassment and punish the turtler.
It also served as an example of how a map can bury the unimaginative, and force the better players to rise to a challenge. Arcadia 2 opened with a 10 game ZvT winning streak. Critics howled against its imbalance. Great players like NaDa chose to rush with his first marines and all his scv to gain honour-less wins. It took a Light and an Emperor to set things right. In the end, after more than two hundred games, the balance of the Arcadia franchise was excellent, and it served as a favorite in the foreign community.
July vs Xellos, ProLeague, January 7th, 2007 Happy New Year Xellos! July shows just how powerful the Arcadia macro machine can be. Not a close game, and not for those who dislike the sight of blood.
When 815 came onto the scene, it was yet another case of love/hate in TL land. The skinny ramps were new, the island gas perplexing. However, they added an element of excitement to the game, and was a sign of things to come as maps became more and more creative around the second half of 2005. The map turned away the FE power, dabbled in double gas, and allowed progamers to show new and exciting builds. MM into wraith became a winning TvP strategy, and it was glorious to watch.
The 815 franchise lasted for the better part of a year and 4 StarLeagues, but only thanks to constant revision after each season. Nonetheless, with 200 games under its belt and a bevy of entertaining games, the innovative 815 definitely deserves a spot on this list.
For most of 2005, one map consistently gave fans exciting games to watch. Featured in 3 Dual Tournaments, three OSLs, and an MSL, RoV was a core 2 player map ill-replaced by Blitz. It was one of the first maps to utilize long sloping ramps to generate the feeling of seemless, multi-level terrain, with a huge raised plateau dominating the center of the map. In addition, it helped popularize the use of low-mineral walls by blocking a backdoor. Use of this technique would persist in many maps in the future.
The short distances between the two mains allowed for exciting early game play, but entrenched expansions along the sides meant that anything surviving into the 10 minute mark was going to be a macro bloodbath. The pedigree of the map was also greatly helped by the players competing on it. Savior, Boxer, Iloveoov, Anytime, and July (twice) all played finals games on the map.
July vs Iloveoov, 2005 ShinHan OSL, Game 2 In the second major OSL clash between these two, July's trademark aggressiveness went on display against oov's stalwart defense. The game balanced on a razors edge as white-knuckled fans looked on.
Boxer vs Anytime, SO1 OSL, Game 1 Another classic finals moment, with Boxer vying for the golden mouse, facing the Royal Roader Anytime. The tide of this game swayed back and forth as both players tried to secure the victory.
Three player maps are tricky beasts. There are not triangle configurations in the BW editor, so there has always been a particular challenge in creating a good 3 player map on a square surface. Some makers have eschewed symmetry altogether, and created abominations such as Alchemist or Desert Fox. It was not until Rush Hour came along that the 3 player genre got on the right track. The grand pappy of other fine maps such as Longinus and Tau Cross, Rush Hour was a pro and ladder favorite.
As I am sure Frozen Arbiter can tell you, the beauty of this map laya in a simple scenario. With limited gas at the expansions, the map revolved around who could secure the remaining main base first. Because of its many pathways, open middle, and well placed bridges and high ground, accomplishing this was never easy and always fun to watch.
Much like Nostalgia but with richer variance and depth, Rush Hour makes it onto our list because its longevity (356 games!) and reliability.
In the tradition made famous by AndyEtter, here are the “close but no cigar” maps… Skip over this if you are only interested in the best.
HM #1 – Neo Vertigo
Is this a great map? Maybe not. But it is a map that lasted 74 games over 3 starleagues and featured our amazing Frenchman Elky. Balance-wise, this map was built for terran all the way, but did provide equal footing for Zerg and Protoss to do battle. This map will always have a special place in the hearts of old timers who remember the Boxer vs Reach and the Boxer vs Garimto series. You can see some of the old games here:
When Arkanoid first appeared, the universal reaction was WTF? It was definitely not the prettiest map, and TL members loudly panned it as too complicated. Can we blame them? We fear what we do not understand. By taking the use of natural buildings to the extreme, Arkanoid was a never-ending labyrinth of corridors and confusion. However, to their credit, the gaming channels stuck to the concept and the progamers found the intricacies of the map. We as fans began to understand how the game was played, and then appreciated the drama it created. Near the end of its time, rather than being tired and worn out, Arkanoid produced some of it’s most exciting matchups.
Recommended game:
Savior vs Iris, Game 5 of the 2006 ShinHan3 OSL Semi-Finals.
I hate to do this. You have no idea how much I hate to do it. However, I have no choice. Luna is a terrible map for the fan who wishes to watch art. However, it changed the game of Brood War permanently. The lack of inspiration available on this map refocused the gamer on the basics, on the mechanics, of the need to precisely dictate his fast-expansion build order to perfection. It is the founding father of the macro game, and the one which did not forgive the lazy macro-er who danced his marines at the expense of glowing barracks. One cannot argue with the statistics: 268 games played stretching over 3 years, and a balance that remained precise.
I can hear the calls of complaints all the way from Aiur. Balance? BiFrost? Blasphemy! While it is true that protoss players suffered long and hard on this map, it remains a classic for so many other reasons. BiFrost posed gamers with an extremely technical terrain and pushed their imaginations to the limit. It rewarded those with micro and strategy, and created a playing field that would not succumb to single-build syndrome.
BiFrost saw three incarnations, the original, Neo BiFrost, and BiFrost 3. In total, the series saw 215 between 2002 and 2004. It was this map which gave Xellos the moniker, “Perfect Terran” (despite the small matter of one loss to NaDa), and it was this map which showed the world that Boxer was the best map analyst of all time when he floated his barracks to reverse bunker rush Elky. Play it with your friends, and relieve the glory of BiFrost.
For this list I mentioned that I would include all versions… I am going to bend this rule slightly for this entry. I say slightly, because the original version of Peaks was so drastically different than the version that became popular that they were almost two different maps.
The Shin version of Peaks was a masterpiece, and was the heir to Requiem as the Ace match map in the ProLeague. Peaks was designed for the sophisticated StarCraft fan. Those who liked the blood and guts of Luna soon tired of the maze that was Peaks. The whole map revolved around the centerpiece, a tiny choke which was limited to small units only. Around it lay a rich landscape of gradual hills, valleys, cliffs, and water.
Because of the direct line between the two bases granted for smaller units, the early game on Peaks could degenerate into vicious affairs. One need only to look at the example of Savior vs Daezang in the Pringles MSL. After that though, the full extent of the map’s rich landscape could be used, with reconnaissance being key to time your attacks.
For 220 games, and all of 2006, Shin Peaks of Baekdu served well.
And now for the number one choice… Requiem. There is nothing this map does not have. It’s length of use is unparalleled: 378 games, 6 StarLeagues, the KT-KTF league, and two years of ProLeague.
This map turned the LT ramp paradigm on it’s head, punishing those who huddled in their bases and rewarding those who marched. The map introduced mineral skipping, and gave protoss a chance at victory in the dark ages when zergs and terrans reigned supreme.
Games played on this map were always quality. It was used as the official ace map of the proleague before Peaks of Baekdu even existed. If I say Stork vs GoRush, you say Requiem. If I say rA vs oov, you say Requiem. IF I ASK WHO THE REAL FIREBATHERO WAS, YOU SAY REQUIEM. If there was one map to last me until the end of time, it would be Requiem.
Stork vs GoRush, SKY 2005 ProLeague Incredible spellcasting by both of these players. Boxer predicted Stork would be the next big thing, and while it took him a bit, the Emperor has the Midas touch.
So there you have it, the Top 10 maps of all time as decided be me. Have a different opinion? Show me your list and bring it on! I will defend it against all comers.
That was a cool read. My history of pro gaming knowledge is a bit limited compared to most, but as I was reading down I was like "OMG i wonder what #1 is gonna be" while taking a trip down nostalgia (no pun intended) road.
I was really happy to see nostalgia as number one. I thought for sure Lost Temple would be here, but only because of it's legacy. I guess when using your criteria, it doesn't really measure up.
Are you only listing memorable available in tl database? If not, some recommendations... ROV: Boxer vs Pusan So1 Starleague Semis game 3 Reach vs. Rock (Goon micro >> zealot)
815: Kingdom vs. Reach (forgot which series from 2005, but the one with the massive mindcontrol)
Monty Hall: Nada vs. Bisu from Superfight, at the map's debut.
was kinda surprised that an island map, like parallel lines, hall of valhalla or dream of balhae, wasn't in the honourable mentions. they don't rank high in length of use or balance, but there's plenty of innovation and memorable games on them. i guess 815 can be counted as an island map though.
On December 11 2007 19:04 caveman:caveman wrote: I was really happy to see nostalgia as number one. I thought for sure Lost Temple would be here, but only because of it's legacy. I guess when using your criteria, it doesn't really measure up.
the list is in ascending order... so nostalgia would be number 9 -_-a
On December 11 2007 19:04 caveman:caveman wrote: I was really happy to see nostalgia as number one. I thought for sure Lost Temple would be here, but only because of it's legacy. I guess when using your criteria, it doesn't really measure up.
the list is in ascending order... so nostalgia would be number 9 -_-a
Ahh, I mispoke. I meant to say that I'm glad that Requiem is number one, haha -___-
Great article Mani. I really like the tone for something like this, it's written quite objectively with a little bit of personal bias, which is really necessary when ranking the top maps ever. Good job!
Personally, I've never gotten the love for Requiem, it always felt easily T>Z, Z>P, P>T to me. I don't disagree with it being number one, I actually have always felt that there's something wrong with me that I can't see what everyone else loves about it.
I am total gay for Bifrost. I don't think there's another map that I will ever feel as strongly about.
Similarly, with Nostalgia, Rush Hour 3, and Peaks, I've probably played hundreds of games on each, and would love to play hundreds more. They are great maps that stand the test of time time (despite Nostaliga being Z>P I think).
I never liked Arcadia or RoV. I want to like RoV, but I just don't. Arcadia got boring because it degenerates into a double expand macro game every time you play it. Given that Reaver/Corsair seems nearly impossible to beat sometimes on it, I avoid that like that plague.
815 is really cool, not many people ever want to play on it. I do think it sucks that in some matchups, normal play isn't really viable.
I have no thoughts on Monty. It's cool and has produced some great games at the professional level. I think it's a blunderfuck at the foreigner level.
Hmm Incubus. I'm trying to think of what I would replace Incubus with, because Incubus doesn't really bring back any memories of anything exciting. I really liked Hitchhiker, but it's too imbalanced to make this list. Maybe Blitz X? That was a long-running map that was pretty fun.
What current maps do you think deserve to be considered for this list? Python couldn't be more generic. NO Zodiac couldn't be more generic. NO Nemesis is stupid. NO Loki is stupid. NO Baekmagoji, rofl. NO Katrina. Hmm it's pretty interesting of a map, I like it although it seems fairly imbalanced. I think it could be considered. YES Un'Goro Crater. It's like Katrina with an empty middle -_-. NO Blue Storm. YES
If at the very least, I hope this article reaffrims that there are some great maps out there, and Python and Tau Cross aren't them! Play some goddamn other maps!
mani, the only thing i can think of adding is on shin peaks of bekdu part is the epic game between nal_ra and savior.... when i think of that map, that is the one game that comes to mind. the ones u listed were pretty cool, but jaedong's game was nowhere near the epicness of those two monsters battling it out in the msl.
very nice writeup but im also shocked to not see Lost Temple anywhere in the FE.. considering it was the first (or one of the very first) maps used in SC progaming and was used for a long time and provided for many exciting matches
Wow, I love your write-up despite the typos and such which slightly mar such a great article. Good analysis, good writing style, great organization and referencing.
Please do more things like this in the future [:
On December 12 2007 03:54 SchOOl_VicTIm wrote: nice write up
woah thanks for the good read, i wasnt into progaming early enough but i always had thought mecury was a good map because of the oov reach game, so when i saw "The map Mercury, which was promptly renamed Fuckury by fans" i loled.
On December 12 2007 03:46 koryano321 wrote: mani, the only thing i can think of adding is on shin peaks of bekdu part is the epic game between nal_ra and savior.... when i think of that map, that is the one game that comes to mind. the ones u listed were pretty cool, but jaedong's game was nowhere near the epicness of those two monsters battling it out in the msl.
Very true, that would have been a better pick.
On December 12 2007 03:54 SchOOl_VicTIm wrote: but where the fuck is Lost Temple??? T_T
If this was an article about all time bnet maps, it would be #1. However, LT was used in one starleague and ghem TV (which sucks). It was barely a pro map at all.
On December 12 2007 05:36 Wasabi wrote: Nnice article, although my favorite map list is very different from yours.
Post it up! Lets get a discussion going.
On December 12 2007 04:57 fanatacist wrote: Wow, I love your write-up despite the typos and such which slightly mar such a great article.
Yeah me too, and maybe GGPlay vs YellOw for 815? (i think it's the longest televised zvz, with defiler+hydra+devourer+lurker+sexiness)
Again, yes, probably a better pick. However, most people have seen that game, and I was hoping that I would include VODs people would go watch, rather than VODs people would just agree with because they have seen them already.
Incubus should definitely be bumped off the list in favor of Lost Temple, EVEN if it's not a competition map (I mean cmon, what's the difference, all the good maps are competition maps, LT just happens to be the only one that isn't).
I also think Shin Peaks should be number 1 and Arcadia's balance should be weighed higher.
I disagree with the low score that Nostalgia received on the innovations side. While the map layout itself looks super boring, the map featured innovations which allowed it to become THE balanced of the era.
First of all was the side-path into the second expansion. Weirdness like this was uncommon back then, when the de facto standard was that there was a single choke into your natural.
Second of all was the lack of gas in the natural, and the presence of gas in the second expansion. Back then when Lost Temple was the standard map form, and terms like "natural" and "min-only" applied to a wide range of maps, having a non-gas natural was definitely an innovation. "Natural" back then meant that there was gas at the expansion, and "min-only" meant your second expansion, not your first. Nostalgia broke that.
And I kinda agree that Lost Temple should be on this list somehow, if not in the top ten then maybe special mention somewhere. Lost Temple set the form for pro-maps for a long time to come, ranging from naturals and min-onlies, island expansions that belonged to no starting point in particular, an open middle battle ground, the 4-player 128x128 form, cliffs above your expansions, mains on elevated ground with a single ramp as a choke into lower ground, etc.
As a side note, I suggest that this epic game in Shinhan1 Ro8 Boxer vs Oov should be on Ride of Valkyrie's list. Oov's had around 50 wraiths for half the game, a feat that would not have been accomplished if it were not for Ride of Valkyrie's capability to make the middle line a huge standoff between tank lines on both sides in a TvT. + Show Spoiler +
The single island expansion at the bottom necessitated that Oov get a large air force to try to break it, and also was the deciding factor that won Boxer the game.
10. Ride of Valkerys--> Pusan vs Boxer 9. Longinus --> Hwasin vs Savior 8. R-Point --> Boxer vs July 7. Blue Storm --> Savior vs Mind 6. Monty Hall --> GGPlay 5. Rush Hour III--> Mondragon 4. Peaks --> Boxer vs Yellow 3. Requiem--> iloveoov T_T 2. Gaia--> Draco 1. Lost Temple--> Boxer
This List I made thinking of fucking great moments Bnet, WCG, Pro/Foreign scene. And what name comes to my mind at first when I look at those maps.
My top 10 is somewhat similar. I'd take out Monty Hall, add Sin Gaema, and shuffle things around a bit. Eh, maybe remove Arcadia, add Neo Jungle Story, remove BiFrost, add Enter the Dragon.
I'm happy that you gave a shoutout to Light for being the first Terran to win TvZ on Arcadia, and happier than you included Ride of Valkyries.
For the number 1 map, Requiem, I'm surprised no one mentioned the REACH vs Chojja, Game 5 of UZOO MSL loser's bracket finals.
This was after the famous Maelstrom game between Reach and Chojja on Rush Hour (the one that Mani mentions), the final coda to their epic series.
On Neo-Requiem, everybody is curious to see how this series will conclude. Will it be another long and epic, high-tech game? Something flashy? Does Reach or Chojja have something up their sleeve? Of course, Reach runs over Chojja with two-gate Hardcore zeals. That's it. It's memorably because of two reasons:
1) for being the manly conclusion to a going-down-in-history series, (remember, Chojja had Savior-like ZvP at the time) the sheer manliness of Reach going two-gate hardcore zeals right after that Maelstrom game. Yes, Requiem is a good map for hardcore zeals... but Reach doing it when he did it, it carried over all the drama from the previous game and showed why to play like Reach is to squint like Clint Eastwood.
2) As Reach's 'lots were in Chojja's base, the crowd was going wild and the MBC commentator screams, directly to everybody watching on television: "If you were to ask me, "WHY DO YOU PLAY AS PROTOSS?" my answer would be: BECAUSE OF HARDCORE ZEALOT RUSH! BECAUSE THAT IS THE DREAM OF PROTOSS!" It was one of the all-time best play-by-play calls of eSports history.
On December 12 2007 15:45 red.venom wrote: No Gaema or Longinus? : [ hmm
Nice read but I cant agree with Rush Hour, Arcadia or Nostalgia at all. Just my 2 cents. : ]
Longinus over Rush Hour? That is crazy talk. Longinus doesnt cut it. And Gowon? Well, I was trying to not make this a pre-2004 list anyway, but what did Gowon bring to the table to make it special? Gowon was more about the era of gamers that played on it than the map itself.
On December 12 2007 11:05 nobodyhome246 wrote: I disagree with the low score that Nostalgia received on the innovations side. While the map layout itself looks super boring, the map featured innovations which allowed it to become THE balanced of the era.
First of all was the side-path into the second expansion. Weirdness like this was uncommon back then, when the de facto standard was that there was a single choke into your natural.
Second of all was the lack of gas in the natural, and the presence of gas in the second expansion. Back then when Lost Temple was the standard map form, and terms like "natural" and "min-only" applied to a wide range of maps, having a non-gas natural was definitely an innovation. "Natural" back then meant that there was gas at the expansion, and "min-only" meant your second expansion, not your first. Nostalgia broke that.
And I kinda agree that Lost Temple should be on this list somehow, if not in the top ten then maybe special mention somewhere. Lost Temple set the form for pro-maps for a long time to come, ranging from naturals and min-onlies, island expansions that belonged to no starting point in particular, an open middle battle ground, the 4-player 128x128 form, cliffs above your expansions, mains on elevated ground with a single ramp as a choke into lower ground, etc.
As a side note, I suggest that this epic game in Shinhan1 Ro8 Boxer vs Oov should be on Ride of Valkyrie's list. Oov's had around 50 wraiths for half the game, a feat that would not have been accomplished if it were not for Ride of Valkyrie's capability to make the middle line a huge standoff between tank lines on both sides in a TvT. + Show Spoiler +
The single island expansion at the bottom necessitated that Oov get a large air force to try to break it, and also was the deciding factor that won Boxer the game.
Perhaps LT could have been on the list if it was a column on all-time maps everyone played, but LT was a non-factor in the proscene. Sure it solidified concepts we now take for granted, but for this piece it was unimportant.
About the game, I already have so many Boxer games on the list, I was loathe to add more. Each of these maps have other good ghame selections, but as I said, I wanted to try to include some that not everyone had watched repeatedly.
For Nostalgia, I adressed the lack of gas, but I dont think it is the huge idea you make it out to be. Same with the side doors. The bridges were far more important on that map than those others. Nostalgia, again, got a boost from the calibre of players who battled on it, but I am more impressed with the balance after a single version than anything innovative about it. I just don't buy it.
On December 12 2007 16:00 blagoonga123 wrote: Yeah, my one change would be to add Neo Forte somewhere. That map lead to some pretty awesome games.
How would you rank forte on my scale? It was a nightmare for P vs Z until they overhauled it. After the overhaul, ZvP was about equal but Terrans went 86% vs zerg after that. It was played under 200 times, and only in 2005. There were some nice design concepts, but also some flaws, like goons on the cliff able to hit some expansions but not others. We fondly remember a few games, but overall it was not a top 10 map.
Nostalgia also gets bonus points for being dedicated to Jeon Tae-il, a young man who was garment worker, then studied law and turned into a labor rights activist to bring light to his fellow brothers and sisters being paid too little to do too much in the dark textiles factories in Seoul.
In the end, he made his point through self-immolation in the middle of a crowded Seoul street.
I love how you mixed your lists with macro oriented maps and micro oriented maps. Python is becoming the new luna these days though. I remember r-point was pretty popular too. Iron curtain for 2v2 haha.
On December 13 2007 10:13 Scorpion wrote: This is my all-time favorite TLFE.
<3
sorry but i think last romantic's description of each proleague team is the best TLFE ever >__< this was good though no doubt. hopefully manifesto intends to stay since he does write quality posts through this website.
On December 13 2007 10:13 Scorpion wrote: This is my all-time favorite TLFE.
<3
sorry but i think last romantic's description of each proleague team is the best TLFE ever >__< this was good though no doubt. hopefully manifesto intends to stay since he does write quality posts through this website.
i don't think LR has written a FE, I'm guessing you're refering to HonestTea's Tribal Colors?
ROV is my all time favorite... You look up that long smooth ramp and imagine yourself as a puny marine standing on the foothill, immediately you would go... "WOW, What an epic ramp!" an op scs favorite.
On December 13 2007 10:13 Scorpion wrote: This is my all-time favorite TLFE.
<3
sorry but i think last romantic's description of each proleague team is the best TLFE ever >__< this was good though no doubt. hopefully manifesto intends to stay since he does write quality posts through this website.
i don't think LR has written a FE, I'm guessing you're refering to HonestTea's Tribal Colors?
That's correct, I've never written an FE I should try my hand at it sometime.
Though I'm honored to be mistaken for HT. He's a much better poster than I ^^;
On December 12 2007 15:45 red.venom wrote: No Gaema or Longinus? : [ hmm
Nice read but I cant agree with Rush Hour, Arcadia or Nostalgia at all. Just my 2 cents. : ]
Longinus over Rush Hour? That is crazy talk. Longinus doesnt cut it. And Gowon? Well, I was trying to not make this a pre-2004 list anyway, but what did Gowon bring to the table to make it special? Gowon was more about the era of gamers that played on it than the map itself.
On December 12 2007 16:00 blagoonga123 wrote: Yeah, my one change would be to add Neo Forte somewhere. That map lead to some pretty awesome games.
How would you rank forte on my scale? It was a nightmare for P vs Z until they overhauled it. After the overhaul, ZvP was about equal but Terrans went 86% vs zerg after that. It was played under 200 times, and only in 2005. There were some nice design concepts, but also some flaws, like goons on the cliff able to hit some expansions but not others. We fondly remember a few games, but overall it was not a top 10 map.
Forte blows, get over it. I still don't know what people think Gowon contributed, it was a solid map but nothing spectacular. Almost every map has some good games played on it, but this is only for the TOP 10!
Haha... Before I read down to the first place map, I thought "Oh no, he forgot requiem. Surely number 1 is lost temple." I'm glad you didn't forget requiem. I mostly agree with all your picks.
1. requiem (1.4, not neo... just personal preference) 2. hitchhiker. just damn fun to play on 3. rh3. can play this over and over again. 4. bifrost. oh god yes... 5. raid assault 2. random personal favorite that most here would probably hate/not care about (also definitely wouldnt qualify as a good progamer map, not too many interesting games on here)
disagrees: monty hall. don't like semi-islands, often boring to watch cause you know so much that the players dont, theres often a clear winner already arkanoid. same reason. arcadia. didnt think it was THAT much better than luna as a macro shitfest map... ehh... not too fun to play on for me
On December 13 2007 10:13 Scorpion wrote: This is my all-time favorite TLFE.
<3
sorry but i think last romantic's description of each proleague team is the best TLFE ever >__< this was good though no doubt. hopefully manifesto intends to stay since he does write quality posts through this website.
i don't think LR has written a FE, I'm guessing you're refering to HonestTea's Tribal Colors?
That's correct, I've never written an FE I should try my hand at it sometime.
Though I'm honored to be mistaken for HT. He's a much better poster than I ^^;
Yeah me too, and maybe GGPlay vs YellOw for 815? (i think it's the longest televised zvz, with defiler+hydra+devourer+lurker+sexiness)
Again, yes, probably a better pick. However, most people have seen that game, and I was hoping that I would include VODs people would go watch, rather than VODs people would just agree with because they have seen them already.
Is there a link to this game somewhere? I can't find it on youtube or TLPD. thanks.
Yeah me too, and maybe GGPlay vs YellOw for 815? (i think it's the longest televised zvz, with defiler+hydra+devourer+lurker+sexiness)
Again, yes, probably a better pick. However, most people have seen that game, and I was hoping that I would include VODs people would go watch, rather than VODs people would just agree with because they have seen them already.
Is there a link to this game somewhere? I can't find it on youtube or TLPD. thanks.
I requested it a while ago in this thread, and ecs was nice enough to upload the high quality version
Luna may be the father of all modern macro maps, but that would make LT the grandfather of all maps, seeing as it defined the base characteristics of most maps to follow - 4 bases, close natural expo, mineral only. Cliffs and islands got dropped, asymettry got dropped.
I didn't catch your comment about post-2004, my bad. I thought there were pro matches played on LT when the whole thing got started out, though. The LT we play has some pretty significant differences from the one that came with the game imo.
Yes, LT was used, but in the pro context it was hardly used at all. Ghem TV used a desert version for quite a while, and the original LT was used in one of the first OSLs, but if you look at the whole span of progaming, LT was a minor player.
That being said, I will not deny the influence LT has had on map makers and concepts. However, as a Blizzard made map and in the pro world, I don't think it was a top map.
On December 12 2007 16:20 Manifesto7 wrote: Longinus over Rush Hour? That is crazy talk. Longinus doesnt cut it. And Gowon? Well, I was trying to not make this a pre-2004 list anyway, but what did Gowon bring to the table to make it special? Gowon was more about the era of gamers that played on it than the map itself.
I guess I should have made that sentence clearer... I meantnot everything as post 2004. It would ave been easy to do. Despite this, LT snt anywhere close.
On December 13 2007 10:13 Scorpion wrote: This is my all-time favorite TLFE.
<3
sorry but i think last romantic's description of each proleague team is the best TLFE ever >__< this was good though no doubt. hopefully manifesto intends to stay since he does write quality posts through this website.
i don't think LR has written a FE, I'm guessing you're refering to HonestTea's Tribal Colors?
That's correct, I've never written an FE I should try my hand at it sometime.
Though I'm honored to be mistaken for HT. He's a much better poster than I ^^;
Yeah me too, and maybe GGPlay vs YellOw for 815? (i think it's the longest televised zvz, with defiler+hydra+devourer+lurker+sexiness)
Again, yes, probably a better pick. However, most people have seen that game, and I was hoping that I would include VODs people would go watch, rather than VODs people would just agree with because they have seen them already.
Is there a link to this game somewhere? I can't find it on youtube or TLPD. thanks.
I requested it a while ago in this thread, and ecs was nice enough to upload the high quality version
i agree with this list, it fits your criteria well
that said, my favorite map of all time is still namja iyagi (altho i understand why you didn't include it) i dunno why, it's just tons of fun to play it and watch games on it.. wish it would've been used more
On December 18 2007 10:29 blagoonga123 wrote: Okay, after reading your rebuttal, I guess, while there were some amazing games on Neo Forte, it's not really top 10 material.
In the biggest busts, though, I think Geometry should go there somewhere. I mean, in something like 80 games, 47 were TvT, and ZvT was 3-12.
On January 07 2008 14:05 kpcrew(Gg) wrote: i thought this was nice but cant believe u didnt put up lost temple its like the most popular map of all time
That doesn't make it good. He's already listed his reasons for not including it.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Manifesto7/celestialterrain.jpg)
Can a map be great if there were only 17 games played on it? Aren’t we merely scratching the surface of the map’s potential? Sometimes. But Incubus is where royalty is humbled, and greatness emerged. Boxer had won two StarLeagues in a row, and was well placed for a third title. In his way was the protoss Garimto, who few gave a chance of surviving. Two times the players met on this map, and two times the Zealot left a boot mark on the terran commander’s neck. It ended the era of Boxer, which has yet to reassert itself 7 long years later.
There isn’t much flashy about this map. It caused a few ripples in the zerg creep because of the lack of gas at the natural, but that was simply the saving grace for protoss players at the time. No, Nostalgia doesn’t make it on this list for being revolutionary or flashy, but it was a dependable map for a long time. More importantly, it maintained its balance for more than a year without any revision. You know a game on Nostalgia would give everyone a fair shake. 
I said I was not going to take a map still being used, but already Monty Hall is nearing the end of it’s reign. Why Monty Hall? Because it fits with my criteria of being influential and interesting. The designers took the properties of this famous math question and turned it into an ingenious StarCraft problem. Three pathways, all blocked by minerals. Your opponent on the other side. There is still the possibility to scout, but also the possibility to hide. The map gives time to build up, but punishes the blind. After a slight makeover, this map is still creating fascinating games and has again forced gamers to think outside the box.
Arcadia was not a particularly innovative map in its design. As a rehash of a WCG map, Azealea, it seemed to be just another macro map, although slightly more offensive in that as it gave away two free expos. However, over the course of 206 games and 6 major leagues, Arcadia gave us some very entertaining games. The macro was disgusting, but the layout had just enough personality to allow for harassment and punish the turtler. 
When 815 came onto the scene, it was yet another case of love/hate in TL land. The skinny ramps were new, the island gas perplexing. However, they added an element of excitement to the game, and was a sign of things to come as maps became more and more creative around the second half of 2005. The map turned away the FE power, dabbled in double gas, and allowed progamers to show new and exciting builds. MM into wraith became a winning TvP strategy, and it was glorious to watch.
For most of 2005, one map consistently gave fans exciting games to watch. Featured in 3 Dual Tournaments, three OSLs, and an MSL, RoV was a core 2 player map ill-replaced by Blitz. It was one of the first maps to utilize long sloping ramps to generate the feeling of seemless, multi-level terrain, with a huge raised plateau dominating the center of the map. In addition, it helped popularize the use of low-mineral walls by blocking a backdoor. Use of this technique would persist in many maps in the future. 
Three player maps are tricky beasts. There are not triangle configurations in the BW editor, so there has always been a particular challenge in creating a good 3 player map on a square surface. Some makers have eschewed symmetry altogether, and created abominations such as Alchemist or Desert Fox. It was not until Rush Hour came along that the 3 player genre got on the right track. The grand pappy of other fine maps such as Longinus and Tau Cross, Rush Hour was a pro and ladder favorite.
I can hear the calls of complaints all the way from Aiur. Balance? BiFrost? Blasphemy! While it is true that protoss players suffered long and hard on this map, it remains a classic for so many other reasons. BiFrost posed gamers with an extremely technical terrain and pushed their imaginations to the limit. It rewarded those with micro and strategy, and created a playing field that would not succumb to single-build syndrome. 
For this list I mentioned that I would include all versions… I am going to bend this rule slightly for this entry. I say slightly, because the original version of Peaks was so drastically different than the version that became popular that they were almost two different maps.
And now for the number one choice… Requiem. There is nothing this map does not have. It’s length of use is unparalleled: 378 games, 6 StarLeagues, the KT-KTF league, and two years of ProLeague.
best games ever played were on req
