• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:28
CEST 03:28
KST 10:28
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall9HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL50Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?12FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event16Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster16Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Statistics for vetoed/disliked maps Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports?
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Semi Finals & Finals $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event HomeStory Cup 27 (June 27-29)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady
Brood War
General
Help: rep cant save Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall Player “Jedi” cheat on CSL
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Blogs
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 620 users

God of the Battlefield: Part 2 - Page 4

Forum Index > Final Edits
362 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 17 18 19 Next All
Read Part 1


Before we released God of the Battlefield: Part 1, we wondered if it was a wise decision. While no one could question the quality of the article Ver had written, we had to consider the risk of glorifying one of the most loathsome individuals in e-Sports history by releasing an article focused on only his positive aspects.

Thankfully, most of our readers reacted to Part 1 in an intelligent, discerning manner, and were capable of keeping Savior's in-game brilliance in perspective with his out-of-game crimes. While match-fixing still hurts Brood War to this day, and some shameless Savior apologists remain, we believe the majority of our readers are mature enough to appreciate Ver's work in in an appropriate way.

During 2006-2007, Ma Jae Yoon (aka Savior) was the best Brood War player in the world. Not only did he win multiple championships, but he dominated his opposition in a way that had never been seen for the Zerg race. His play captivated the hearts of countless fans, and even the staunchest critics were forced to admit that he was one of the greatest of all time.

His career began on a sharp decline in March 2007, after a loss to Kim Taek Yong (Bisu) in the MSL Final. Though he would retain the loyalty and support of many fans - and occasionally show them flashes of his past brilliance - he would never challenge for a title again.

In 2010, Savior was implicated in one of the most devastating events in e-Sports history, the pro-gamer match fixing scandal. Nearly a dozen progamers had received bribes to intentionally lose their matches, which were bet upon by a handful of shady parties on illegal e-Sports gambling websites. Korean courts found Savior guilty of being a broker, a middle-man between the gamblers and the bribed progamers, though it is suspected that he may have been more directly involved as well.

Savior was sentenced to one year in prison (this sentence has been suspended for 2 years; sentencing occurred in May 2010). Furthermore, all of the progamers implicated were given life-time competition bans by KeSPA (the governing body for BW e-Sports in Korea). GomTV has stated that the banned players are also barred from competing in their StarCraft II leagues.

Though Savior seriously undermined the institution of e-Sports through his despicable crimes, it is possible to separate his faults as a human being from his accomplishments as a player. Though he was rightfully banned from playing the game that brought him fame and fortune, it is undeniable that he was one of the most brilliant RTS players in history, and that he left a significant, lasting mark on the way the Brood War is played.


- Waxangel
Marke
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden279 Posts
March 27 2013 17:16 GMT
#61
wow awsome artical havent had time to read it all, but can tell you put alot of work into this. thank you alot.
Det är inte lätt när det är svårt
minus_human
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
4784 Posts
March 27 2013 17:17 GMT
#62
It's finally out! Go ver!
Pssht
Profile Joined June 2011
United States42 Posts
March 27 2013 17:17 GMT
#63
Beautifully written
Pssht
Drimacus
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany92 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-27 17:20:44
March 27 2013 17:18 GMT
#64
Hell it's about time ;-)

Thanks so much ver! I loved the first part and already love this one.
Keep doing!


edit: damn, that feeling comes back. I know he did wrong but... I want... Savior back!
wptlzkwjd
Profile Joined January 2012
Canada1240 Posts
March 27 2013 17:23 GMT
#65
Long live saviOr!
Feel free to add me on steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/MagnusAskeland/
nimdil
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Poland3748 Posts
March 27 2013 17:24 GMT
#66
Praise the Lord. Part 2 is here.
esdf
Profile Joined December 2012
Croatia736 Posts
March 27 2013 17:27 GMT
#67
i came buckets.

been a long time waiting, but it paid out every second of it.
why do you not believe it? the legend has alived!
rj rl
Profile Joined May 2012
648 Posts
March 27 2013 17:29 GMT
#68
NO WAY i fucking thank you!
mtn
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
729 Posts
March 27 2013 17:29 GMT
#69
I read the First part over 20 times... This is as good. Fucking Brilliant...

Ahh... I love Starcraft <3
jpak
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States5045 Posts
March 27 2013 17:37 GMT
#70
Bow before the King!
CJ Entusman #50! #1 클템 fan TL!
StarVe
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany13591 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-27 17:46:54
March 27 2013 17:40 GMT
#71
Thanks a lot, great article, I'll read the other half tomorrow, you can only take in so much beauty at once.

On March 28 2013 01:29 theqat wrote:
So have any progamers since Savior advertised the fact that they practice using the upcoming opponent's race? Or did it become a fact of life? I can't remember reading that in an interview with anyone else. Fascinating.

A lot of Koreans are very good with their offrace. MC helped other players practicing TvZ for Code S with him as Zerg and won like half the games from what I remember. I don't know about seriously practicing to help their matchups, don't recall any interviews about that but seeing how good some players are with it, some might still use this approach.

For foreigners, Nerchio has said that when he feels lost in a matchup he plays it from the other point of view and often finds something that helps him play with his main race.
Booser
Profile Joined July 2011
United States4 Posts
March 27 2013 17:41 GMT
#72
This is an awesome article. As a Starcraft 2 player, I can safely say that no game I've ever seen even remotely captures the tactical brilliance on display here, but I'm hopeful that something will one day come along. Great write-up and amazing read!
Torenhire
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States11681 Posts
March 27 2013 17:42 GMT
#73
Loved Savior's gameplay.

Wish he didn't do what he did This is a fantastic part 2 to an already amazing article, nice job Ver!!
SirJolt: Well maybe if you weren't so big and stupid, it wouldn't have hit you.
duoform
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain5180 Posts
March 27 2013 17:43 GMT
#74
Holy shit Article! Thanks so much!
"I really like Marauders and Marines." - Flash
ChApFoU
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
France2982 Posts
March 27 2013 17:43 GMT
#75
That's one badass piece of writing. Congratulations !

I remember being quite good at TvZ ... before everyone started to use the 3 hatch muta into swarm build T_T;
"I honestly think that whoever invented toilet paper in a genius" Kang Min
HawaiianPig
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada5155 Posts
March 27 2013 17:45 GMT
#76
On March 28 2013 01:14 wangstra wrote:
I have to lodge my personal distaste with the continuous demonization of Savior. What he did was wrong, punishable, even 'terrible' for esports but he is still human. To ostracize someone as to completely blot him out is to deny the very humanity of his actions. The truth is unfortunately like all tragic figures he demonstrates our friability and the negative aspects that are possible in esports.

Similarly, any serious football fan is aware of how betting/match-fixing has seriously degraded the integrity of the sport. But demonizing the players and tearing them down does nothing to combat the problem. That only serves to highlight players that serve as lightning rods for animosity when in fact the problem is more systemic. In doing so we actually cannibalize players that are most likely to get roped in (because they are some of the most successful) and remove talent from the game.


Full article I'm referencing re: football:
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8924593/match-fixing-soccer

To clarify in case I'm misunderstood... I'm not excusing what Savior did and its very deplorable how things went down. I just hope in the future if something like this is uncovered that more attention is directed at the circumstances that allow for such match fixing to occur. Rather tearing down and demonizing the people who make the sport we enjoy so much does little to perserving the integrity of the game or learning from our mistakes.


I think two points need to be clarified here, the first is more general, the second is more directed at what you point out.




Dividing up Savior's contributions and his actions

I don't think anyone is suggesting we dehumanize him.

Ultimately, what people may take issue with here (and why the article requires a preface), is that we're glorifying his skill within the same context of a scene he was instrumental in irreparably damaging.

Without such a preface, such praise could be interpreted as tacit acceptance of all he has done,

In very abstract terms, praising an individual for something they've done in a narrow context is often interpreted as complete acceptance of everything that person does. Colloquially, we call this placing someone on a pedestal. This type of glorification is widespread in any competitive sport.

However, when that someone does something deplorable, we need to be cognisant of the fact that this idolization is logically unsound. One's great contributions in a narrow context does not necessarily exempt them from their actions in a different context.

Take Tiger Woods for example. Even in the aftermath of his well documented fall from grace, people would not dispute that he is/was a great golfer. Nonetheless, it became apparent that he was not necessarily an infallibly great person. The whole ordeal highlighted an unpalatable side of him. He was not a faithful spouse, capable of deceit and betrayal of so-called loved ones.

It became necessary to recognize the disconnect between his contributions to a game and his personal character outside of that game.

No amount of adultery will erase the fact that he is indisputably one of the best golfers to ever grace the sport. But no amount of skill can be used to redeem his personal character.

While the case for Savior is closer to the game than Tiger Woods (in that his deplorable actions directly affected the sport), this is still an example of disconnecting reverence for skill and a character judgement.

That's ultimately what's occurring here---reverence for skill != exemption of personal character flaws




On Systemic Issues

You rightfully point out that the matter is systemic and that he has become a lightning rod for a problem that he is not solely blameworthy.

(We should keep in mind, however, that his role was not merely participatory--he involved many more players than just himself. This increased role is the most likely reason for this "lightning rod" status.)

Determining whether or not blame for criminal action lies with an individual or a broader system... is not limited to match-fixing in sports. Entire justice systems are founded on the principle that we hold an individual accountable, even if there are contributory systemic factors. Punishment, justice, rehabilitation and all sorts of other issues are steeped in this criminological rhetoric.

There just isn't an easy way to separate the two (individual blame, systemic blame). The best we can do is be cognizant of both... but that doesn't stop us from ultimately holding individuals accountable. We just do so with the caveat that they are sometimes a product of a system. This, at best, provides leniency in punishment, but is never excuplatory.

Whether or not he should or should not be forgiven is a wholly different question. One I think each person evaluates based on the harm they feel he caused and whether or not it warrants continued disgust. Being aware that he is part of a system can help mitigate the perceived harm, but it rarely ever absolves one entirely.




TLDR: In the end, I don't think there is any suggestion (at least by TL) that Savior is less than human as a result of his actions. Instead, there is a clear recognition that one's contributions to a sport are distinct from their personal character. Whether a person chooses to levy all of their hatred for match-fixing onto Savior is their own decision. It should also be remembered that match-fixing is not a crime one can engage in within a vacuum. It does indeed require a system. However, it should be remembered that the reason he is singled out for the scandal is that his role was deeply involved and pervasive. He affected not only himself but many players.

I've rambled, but ultimately I agree with you. Regardless what any may think, criminals are humans too. Of course, humanity does not exempt one from my personal contempt.
AdministratorNot actually Hawaiian.
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6282 Posts
March 27 2013 17:52 GMT
#77
Reading about Savior makes me sad. I remember being proud as a zerg that our Bonjwa was the greatest player of all time... He did what he did he has been punished for it, years after that incident it still bring out a lot of emotion from the community, just goes to show you how big he was. *sigh*

The fact that he still plays BW is a testament to how much he loves the game, which is kind of poetic in its own way. Great article, always a pleasure to read final edits
"If only Kircheis were here" - Everyone
Lysanias
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands8351 Posts
March 27 2013 17:52 GMT
#78
Finally ! ty so much can't wait to get back to reading the next chapter, though he had a black soul he sure as hell was briliant to.
binski
Profile Joined December 2010
United States225 Posts
March 27 2013 17:52 GMT
#79
sick article man
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
March 27 2013 17:57 GMT
#80
wheeeee finally
Writer
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 17 18 19 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
HSC 27: Groups C
CranKy Ducklings104
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 235
NeuroSwarm 144
CosmosSc2 75
StarCraft: Brood War
Aegong 63
NaDa 22
Icarus 6
League of Legends
JimRising 864
Counter-Strike
taco 1270
Stewie2K752
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox621
Other Games
summit1g8995
shahzam1460
Day[9].tv878
Artosis671
ViBE244
Mew2King96
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV239
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift5614
• Jankos1969
• masondota2729
Other Games
• Day9tv878
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
8h 32m
herO vs SHIN
Reynor vs Cure
OSC
11h 32m
WardiTV European League
14h 32m
Scarlett vs Percival
Jumy vs ArT
YoungYakov vs Shameless
uThermal vs Fjant
Nicoract vs goblin
Harstem vs Gerald
FEL
14h 32m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 1h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 8h
RSL Revival
1d 8h
FEL
1d 14h
RSL Revival
2 days
FEL
2 days
[ Show More ]
BSL: ProLeague
2 days
Dewalt vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-06-28
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.